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Special Battle Spot Special Season 5: Inverse Battle! [Playable on Showdown!]

Discussion in 'Cartridge Formats' started by LegoFigure11, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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    [​IMG]

    The special battle rules for season 5 have been revealed! Season 5 will run from 07/18/2017 12:00 AM - 09/11/2017 11:59 PM UTC, and uses the Inverse Battle rules. This means that the type matchup chart is reversed! Moves that would normally be Super-effective are now Not Very Effective, and moves that would normally be Not Very Effective are now Super-effective! This lets some interesting Pokemon that are usually let down by their poor defensive typing really shine!

    All other rules are identical to standard Battle Spot Singles!

    Official format page on the PGL can be found here.


    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  2. Kaynaire

    Kaynaire

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    Woah there, way too spicy!!!
    Colby_ likes this.
  3. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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    Well at least the special seasons have had good formats, unlike the online competitions. I'm excited to see what Theorymon will come up since he was good at this last gen, but i'll have a try:

    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Lonely Nature
    - Double-Edge
    - Power-Up Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Beam

    Normal is a sick offensive type now as nothing resists it. Need to watch out for Mega Gengar though as Shadow Ball will bop you and it now resists Sucker Punch. Ice Beam 2HKOes Avalugg which is always popular in inverse and counters Kang otherwise.

    [​IMG]
    Serperior @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Glare
    - Taunt
    - Light Screen / Reflect / Mirror Coat / Synthesis / Hidden Power Fire

    Grass is a much better offensive typing too, and Leaf Storm can pretty much sweep on its own. Back in ORAS this was used more defensively with Rocky Helmet and Reflect but I expect it to be more offensive this gen, possibly used often as a lead to get something in to set up safely. Lucky for all the people who've already bred HP Fire Serp for normal BSS, as it can now be used to hit the Water- and Rock-types that resist Leaf Storm

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace / Download / Analytic
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Recover
    - Tri Attack
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room / Toxic / Foul Play

    Dragons are overpowered in this format, so you have to use something that's bulky enough to live an unresisted hit. Porygon2 is the gold standard here

    [​IMG]
    Glalie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Moody
    EVs: 172 HP / 84 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Sheer Cold
    - Frost Breath / Icy Wind

    Glalie is way harder to take out now since Ice is now a respectable defensive typing. You can't snipe it with Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, or Vacuum Wave, and it resists Infiltrator Chandlure's Fire STAB. Ice types were made to be immune to Sheer Cold this gen and I'm not sure how that interacts with Inverse, I'm guessing they can be hit with it here, but if not you can just muscle through with super effective Frost Breath

    [​IMG]
    Avalugg @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Recover
    - Mirror Coat
    - Toxic / Roar

    This was beastly in gen 6 with all the physical attackers. It might be a little worse with more special attackers this gen but it'll still be used quite a bit.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry / Choice Band / various Z moves
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Extreme Speed
    - Dragon Dance / Fire Punch
    - Roost / Earthquake

    Dragon is only resisted by Dragon, so it's EXTREMELY potent in this, meaning any Dragon-type is deadly in this but I chose good old Dragonite. Garchomp, Hydriegon, even Outrage Mega Salamence will be great (which is why Porygon2 is better than usual here since you need something with enough bulk to live an un-resisted hit!).

    [​IMG]
    Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Tri Attack / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Thunderbolt
    - Conversion
    - Recover
    - [coverage move]

    This thing will be a menace if allowed to set up. Normal (Tri Attack) PZ will shine imo since normal-type moves are so good now, but there's merit in converting into something like Ice or Dark. Since you don't need 3 attacks in this format you can easily fit Recover there now.

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs / anything really
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Psychic
    - Psyshock
    - Moonblast
    - filler?

    There are no immunities in Inverse, and almost nothing resists Psychic-type moves. Those nooby "Lele+Zam/Metagross" teams from early gen 7 BSS will be unironically good here. I'm kinda tempted to try a lead Terrain Extender Lele set in all honesty lol.

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Electric Surge
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - filler?
    - U-turn?

    Tapu Koko benefits from no immunities just like Lele does, and can spam Specs + Terrain boosted Volt Switches all day providing there isn't a Marowak / Thundurus-T / Electivire(lol) in the back.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Recycle
    - Return
    - Facade

    RestTalk Snorlax was surprisingly popular in Inverse last gen. With the buff to the FIWAM berries this gen, Gluttony Lax has been a legit threat in regular BSS, so I expect it to be a huge threat here. I have no idea if this will be the set to use, but since you can now drop Restalk for simply Recycle you can now run both Return and Facade and not worry about bad Sleep Talk turns.


    That's about all I can think of off the top of my head for now. Here's the stats for the season of Inverse during ORAS. This should be pretty valuable while this meta develops.
  4. ethan06

    ethan06 ⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
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    Stealing old mate cant say's minisprites
    .
    ..
    ...
    *ding*
    [​IMG]
    Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
    Ability: Disguise
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Curse
    - Shadow Claw
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split

    I have a feeling that Mimikyu is going to tear this format apart. Disguise is one thing on its own but being able to wallbreak Avalugg with Curse and nuke all the Normal-types with Never-Ending Nightmare sounds really powerful. SD sets are probably just as good here if not better.

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
    Ability: Grassy Surge
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer

    Not much else I need to say here. Inverse has always been pretty friendly to Grass types so here's the strongest Grass type out of all of them, with an ability that buffs other Grass-types too...

    [​IMG]
    Golisopod @ Life Orb
    Ability: Emergency Exit
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - First Impression
    - Leech Life
    - Aqua Jet
    - Liquidation

    Now, I'll admit I'm biased on this mon... It's just so much fun to play in regular singles and First Impression only gets better in Inverse. All of the new Fairies in the format are hit ridiculously hard by this, and a Mimikyu with its Disguise broken is hard countered. The Grass-types that resist it need to be able to take a Liquidation to adequately answer it. Unfortunately, as in Singles, it's severely hampered by the presence of Tapu Lele, which brings me to my next exhibit:

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Knock Off

    The offensive Tapu Lele check that we've always dreamed of. Lele needs to hit multiple Focus Blasts to threaten Conkeldurr and gets flattened out by Drain Punch. Specs Tapu Koko can't OHKO with any move and gets similarly ironed out with Conk's STAB. It gets walled by Normal types, however, and most powerful neutral hits will cripple it significantly; however, the Tapus seem like enough of a threat in this format to earn it a niche.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
    Theorymon and LegoFigure11 like this.
  5. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  6. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    already linked it my dude
    Vif-Argent likes this.
  7. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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  8. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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    Sorry for double post I figured I'd get more likes if I kept them separate rather than editing this into the other one ;)

    The Inverse type chart is now supported in the Battle Spot Damage calculator! Just click on the "Inverse" button at the top and calc away!

    [​IMG]
    We may add format-specific sets once we start to get a taste for the meta but at the moment it's just preloaded with the standard BSS ones.
  9. Feesh Squad

    Feesh Squad

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    Nope.avi (open)
    [​IMG]

    (Sorry idk how to make it smaller) Afraid that's not how it works. This is an Alakazam I got from the VC of Pokemon Red. Appears the Pokemon need to have either a pentagon or a plus to be legal. So rip counter zam.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    LegoFigure11 and 3heartschall like this.
  10. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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    [HIDE=Large Image][IMG]link to image goes here[/IMG][/HIDE] Is how to put the image in a hide tag, for future reference.
    As for the rules, we were just basing that from what has been allowed in previous Special seasons. I'll update the OP and the format on PS to reflect this discovery. Thanks for pointing it out!
    Feesh Squad likes this.
  11. GroudonEmpire

    GroudonEmpire

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    I'm so late to this. But, you guys should check out my channel for the ORAS inverse episodes. There should be a playlist for it. They should definitely help out and provide some kind of metagame refresher I think!

    Good times
  12. Theorymon

    Theorymon Let's a do the truffle shuffle!
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    So I've played about 100 battles of this metagame now. In the mid 1600s due to some mishaps, but I've had fun! Let me go over some of my findings!

    - Snorlax is a HUGE threat, almost on the level of Mega Kangaskhan to me. It's bulky, goes great on Trick Room teams, and since nothing resists Normal-type attacks, its free to do stuff like say, run Facade to tanks burns, or use Yawn to induce sleep. Figy Berry really made Snorlax a much more high profile threat than ORAS inverse.

    - Mega Manectric is surprisingly good. Not only does it outspeed Tapu Koko, but it can switch in before it mega evolves thanks to lightning rod. Intimidate has gotten me out of a lot of jams too. Something unique over most other Electric-types is the access to Fire-type moves, which means that stuff like Suicune won't wall it too easily!

    -Speaking of Suicune, this appears to be the dominant bulky Water instead of Tapu Fini. I think the reason for this is because Tapu Fini's Fairy-typing makes it veryvulnerable to Conkeldurr, Mega Heracross, and Pheromosa, who are fairly common at the moment.

    -Despite the normal weakness, except to see a healthy amount of Tyranitar. I think people are using it because a lot of Grass-types aren't running normal coverage currently. If you're Tyranitar weak, I'd consider something like Return on Breloom or Tapu Bulu!

    -Offensive Porygon2 is pretty dangerous as you'd expect, but I had to switch over to a bulky one because Mega Kangaskhan + Snorlax together makes Normal spam way more dangerous and harder to check than last gen.

    -A common mistake I noticed: don't try to beat a healthy Kangaskhan with Tapu Lele. You may whittle it dowm, but Power-up Punch actually OHKOs Tapu Lele!

    -Unlike regular Battle Spot, I actually prefer Nature Power on Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele compared to their regular STABs. For Tapu Koko, this means that Mega Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch will fail, allowing Tapu Koko to reliably hit Mega Kangaskhan without fearing priority (note that it becomes Thunderbolt under Electric Terrain). For Tapu Lele, I prefer it over Psycchic because it prevents Tapu Bulu from revenging you, since Nature Power becomes Energy Ball, OHKOing Bulu. It helps that Koko and Lele have alternate STABs they usually use (Volt Switch and Psyshock).

    -Mimikyu is still damn good, but a difference for me is that I've been using Wood Hammer over Play Rough. This has come in hand for getting OHKOs on stuff like Dragonite and Volcarona!

    -I've been noticing a lot of high ranking players using Silvally. Silvally is no freaking joke in this metagame! They use a Swords Dance set with Z-Explosion, which is so powerful after a boost that it's pretty much impossible to wall. Swords Dance / Explosion / Double-Edge / Flame Charge seems to be the set. I've also seen CB Silvally, and Scarf Silvally with Parting Shot / U-turn / Explosion / Double-Edge. U-turn may seem redundant with Parting Shot, but breaking Focus Sashes can come in handy!

    -So let's talk about our handy Sap Sippers. Unfortuantely, I haven't been liking Gogoat as much this gen since it feels harder to wall stuff in this metagame. Choice Band Bouffalant is still great however, and Miltank is fine as well. I'm also considering Chesnaught, who is immune to Energy Ball and Bullet Seed (not to mention Rock Blast now, so it can defeat Cloyster). I'll probably try Chesnaught later as a Conkeldurr alternative. I've also seen a few Sap Sipper Goodra around as well.

    -Glalie is a lot nastier than usual in this metagame, since most Pokemon that are immune to Sheer Cold get hit hard by Ice-type attacks now! Mamoswine is the most reliable check you can ask for here, since Thick Fat and the Ground-typing give it an actual Ice-type resist, and Icicle Spear blasts through Substitute. I wonder if this is also why I've seen Hyper Voice Mega Salamence...

    -ONE MORE THING! I tested this out: Poketransfer Pokemon DO work! I used a gen 4 Latios just fine. Wonder if it just doesn't allow VC mons...
  13. Theorymon

    Theorymon Let's a do the truffle shuffle!
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    Sorry for the triple post, but I got an update.

    I am currently #1 worldwide! This could change soon since #2 is one point below me, but hey it still feels good!

    Also, since I've done almost 200 battles, I'm going to post a viability list here. I know it seems a bit late with less than 3 weeks left, but hey, I topped the ladder in less time than that, so you can still do well if you can deal with the dead zones! Also, this is just my opinion for now, so feel free to dispute stuff.

    Also yeah these lists are gigantic, but I don't think there's much time to separate them into more lists like A+, A, A-, etc. There's a lot of viable stuff in this metagame in general lol

    (I will fix the formatting later, I'm doing this between classes lol)

    S

    Mega Kangaskhan
    Porygon2
    Snorlax

    A

    Tapu Koko
    Tapu Lele
    Garchomp
    Mimikyu
    Mega Gengar
    Serperior
    Breloom
    Suicune
    Dragonite
    Porygon-Z
    Avalugg
    Blaziken (Mega)
    Mega Alakazam
    Mamoswine
    Conkeldurr
    Cloyster
    Latios
    Mega Heracross
    Thundurus-T
    Mega Salamence
    Volcarona
    Glalie

    B

    Gothitelle
    Greninja
    Landorus-T
    Chansey
    Golisopod
    Mega Manectric
    Cresselia
    Hippowdon
    Tyranitar (Mega)
    Tapu Bulu
    Mega Lopunny
    Kartana
    Ditto
    Miltank
    Rhyperior
    Xurkitree
    Arcanine
    Mega Charizard X
    Mega Charizard Y
    Darmanitan
    Buzzwole
    Bewear
    Umbreon
    Alolan Ninetales
    Swampert (Mega)
    Mega Sceptile
    Silvally-Normal
    Pheromosa
    Goodra
    Gyarados (Mega)
    Mega Beedrill

    C

    Entei
    Whimsicott
    Lapras
    Raikou
    Chandelure
    Quagsire
    Tapu Fini
    Bouffalant
    Yanmega
    Furfrou
    Kommo-o
    Alolan Persian
    Staraptor
    Cinccino
    Gogoat
    Uxie
    Eevee + Espeon
    Jolteon
    Araquanid
    Stoutland
    Mudsdale
    Excadrill
    Talonflame
    Alolan Raichu
    Shuckle
    Smeargle
    Galvantula
  14. Martin

    Martin RIP Grape-kun
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    I did some laddering w/ Theorymon the other day, which was extremely fun; this meta rocks, and chatting shit with mates while laddering rocks even more. I borrowed his team 'cause I have quite literally nothing in-game (I only beat the game for the first time during my holiday lol), and it used a really cool anti-lead Alolan Raichu (dubbed "RaidChu" by TMon 'cause we were raiding the ladder with it lol) and it puts in so much work on an extremely consistent basis that I think it's definitely worth mentioning ITT.

    The set looks like this:

    [​IMG]
    Raichu-Alola @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Surge Surfer
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot

    Honestly I think the C rank TMon gave it does undersell Alolan Raichu a lot because it matches up extremely well versus a large number of common leads and is just extremely consistent on the whole, just going off of the list that he gave me before I started using the team, it beats Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Garchomp, Dragonite, Breloom, but even when not faced vs those five it just very consistently succeeds in the role due to just how great Elec/Psy/Grass coverage is. I found myself bringing it a hell of a lot more than Tapu Koko, and it being able to dunk on every relevant terrain is a huge boon in a metagame filled by Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele users.

    Anyway, other observations based on that session and another shorter one on my own, Normal, Electric, Grass, Ice, Psychic, and Dragon are all really excellent types im this metagame, with Normal pretty decisively being the best type here. MKanga os seriously dangerous, hits bounce off of Snorlax while it reaps havoc on whatever it faces with Curse-boosted hits, and being able to run both Double Edge amd Facade is definitely a godsend when facing off against Suicine and random T-waves and whatever else. Ditto fares really well here due to the presence of stuff like Tapu Koko, Glalie, Serperior, Cloyster, Latios, Volcarona and what-have-you that it just preys on. Last sleeper threat is Scarf Darmanitan, which just completely owns and feels substantially more threatening than Mega Blaziken, at least to me and my relative inexperience.
    RazorLeafVGC and Theorymon like this.

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