Resource BBP Bug and Feedback Thread - Generation 9 Edition!

choice band states, in part:
The holder can't attempt more than one different Attack move and one different non-Attack move each round.
Click to expand...

it's not really clear to anyone what the obvious interaction with Combinations would be (if they count as your Attack when you make an attacking combo, or if they count as their components).

sound off below with which interpretation makes more sense to you:
  • your combo counts as an attack for these items if it IS an attack, and as a non-attack otherwise.
  • your combo counts as an attack for these items if it CONTAINS an attack, and as a non-attack if it CONTAINS a non-attack
  • you expected another interpretation (describe as you reply)
 
My expectation was the first one where a combo is an attack if it is an attack and a non-attack otherwise. I think maybe it could be good if combos didn't count as moves for the purpose of Choice items to make them usable while holding one, but I don't have a strong opinion about it.
 
I would go with the first interpretation myself. If a combination contains an attack then as far as I know it will always result in the combination being an attack, so a Choice Item would burn the attack slot in this case. Alternatively, if a combination contains no attacks, then the Choice Item would burn the non-attack slot for the round.

EDIT: Alternatively, next patch we give Choice Items a combo exemption, if we want to just shortcut the feel bads.
 
I expect the first one - but you also need to be able to attempt the components to attempt a combo. So, to be specific, I expect:

These would be legal -
Growl ~ Tackle + Scratch ~ Growl
Tackle + Growl ~ Leer ~ Leer
Growl + Leer ~ Tackle ~ Tackle

These would not be legal -
Tackle + Growl ~ Tackle ~ Tackle (you have already attempted the attack "Tackle + Growl", so you can't attempt "Tackle")
Leer ~ Tackle + Growl ~ Leer (you have already attempted the non-attack "Leer", so you can't attempt "Growl", so you can't attempt a combination with Growl)
Growl + Leer ~ Growl ~ Tackle (similar)
 
tricking people choice items seems really strong right now in a way that might not fit the game's current design ethos.

If my opponent has a special attacker typing surf x 3, and I trick them a choice band on step 1 before they act, then on the second step they have executed an action since last entering play and last equipping this item that was not a standard physical move, so they will instead struggle on steps 2 and 3. (and struggle isn't a move so they will still be choice locked afterwards.)
 
Battle subway level 4 wins 1-4 does not have exciting rewards for level 4 content.
You can get tc or rc at a low conversion rate, which most players of level 4 content don't need anyway, or you can get xp that is only relevant if you are bringing under leveled mon to a pinnacle.
 
Pinnacle Raid Thoughts

Now that I have finished res res I have feedback!

Res Res
In general I liked the changes.
Phase 1 (palkia) was the most interactive that raid has ever felt on any patch. The boss had sufficient options that you could not screen them all, and not too many of them immediately lost you the raid if they were not addressed. I enjoyed this phase a lot.

Phase 2 (dialga) was the least interesting phase. The boss did not really do anything (one action was a generic attack, the other was easy to block out with quick guard) and the boss mechanics heavily incentivized pushing damage so you could skip them. Both players who fought res res evaluated that it was stronger and more reliable to deal 550 damage than it was to play the phase "properly".

Phase 3 was cool. The bosses managed to overload my disruption and resolve trick room, which created an interesting dynamic for phase 4.

Phase 4 was in the middle of phase 1 and 2. The boss had interesting actions and you could not stop everything, but they also went splat in 2 rounds so they didn't have much time to use them. Notably trick room was very influential, basically doubling how many actions the boss got to take.

General Raid Dynamics
It is generally more efficient to ignore as much of the bosses actions as possible and use your su and pr to push more damage on the boss.
Many raids have multiple bosses that take 3-4 rounds to defeat if you are not rushing and 2-3 rounds if you are. Defeating them a round sooner with a faster ag removes 33-50% of boss actions, which is normally more efficient than taking defensive measures.
Unfainting has been brought up before as a possibility. Others could be giving bosses priority actions or endure to make it easier for them to get some extra actions out.

Protect is probably too influential and limits the importance of your pr pokemon choice. Bosses have to spend large numbers of their actions targeting your pr, and often the set of actions can't do anything if the pr (or any mon really with side targeting) uses protect. In theory purge could remove protection when it was +1 prio, but that no longer works and if the opponent aims their utility actions at your pr they end up unable to influence the rest of your team at all. One of the big reasons protect is so strong is due to role swapping and switching out letting you type protect on your pr every single turn if you desire.

En feels fine (or will). Now that you get 20 en in a single action, even things like 1500 hp of pressure pokemon are managable if you accept most of your mon will have to sacrifice 1 action at some point in the raid.

Overall
I had fun this raid, especially in p1!
More raid phases like palkia please, where the boss gets a good number of indicator and indicators are too flexible to be blanked without subs.
I like the new vocations and the dynamic role swapping, it felt like I had a lot of tools to play around with each round.
I would personally prefer it if bosses were more resilient to being rushed so that it was more interesting to type utility moves compared to burning them down.
I don't have a solution for this but I have to look up shear and expose every time. I have no intuitive idea exactly what aspect of the game they are meant to be dealing with.
 
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Do you like non attack actions? I do.
Now that the patches have settled in a bit and we have seen the impact of en changes I was having a look for non attack moves that I think are cool and would enjoy having more reason to click.


Status Moves
  • Statuses are generally pretty good, however they are also very fragile.
  • Rest is available to every single pokemon in the game and is very efficient if it clears even a single status while healing. Does it need to heal this much? Maybe it should be positioned more as a generic out vs status conditions, instead of an on curve recovery move that goes crazy when the opponent is trying to inflict statuses instead of pure attacks.
  • Iron Defense also stands out as having a perhaps unnecessary fan fiction buff against burn and poison (via removing corrosion). Does it need this? Quite a few pokemon that should be natural prey of will-o-wisp instead get to remove it and create value, for example tyranitar and gigalith.
En Costs
  • Disruptive moves cost 4 en AND tend to make the opponent spend 0 en, causing huge relative en swings.
  • Maybe disable and imprison could be 3 cost?
  • Confuse Ray might not need to cost 4 (I guess while I am here bide is pretty crazy and was previously held back by costing 20 en in the old system going to 3 en in the new one.)
  • Reflect and Light Screen cost 4 en and are pretty hard to get value out of due to the prevalence of screen breaking moves and the fact bbp pokemon have a much easier time switching damage types.
  • Heal Block and Memento are quite expensive, I don't have anything else to add.
  • Mirror Move and Copy Cat (and to a lesser extent Me First) costing 2 en more than the move they copy is pretty painful. Maybe they could cost the same amount, or even cost a flat 2 en and play the called move for free.
Duration
  • Moves that give +2 or -2 speed stages only last 3 turns compared to attack and defense being 5 turns. At the moment they are not that exciting, since a lot of mon get attacks that also change speed stages, and 3t runs out very quickly.
  • Attract lasting 2 turns feels short.
  • Magic Room lasting 1 round is pretty sad for doubles. Maybe it could be 3 steps (or 2 rounds if we are feeling spicy.)
  • Wonder Room/Trick Room 3 rounds feels quite short in doubles. (Tailwind lasting 6 steps maybe feels a bit long? Intuitively it feels like tailwind and trick room should work in a similar manner to me.)
Miscellaneous and Condensing Feedback
  • Eeerie Spell's low dread clearing requirement means it is very hard for it to apply dread for more than 1 move.
  • Mist is a screen in BBP but not on cart.
  • Detect has no role in the game.
  • Roost heals 20 while every similar move heals 25.
  • Poison Powder is heavily outclassed by the wide distribution toxic.
  • Nightmare timing means it only deals 1 tick of damage if a faster pokemon puts a slower pokemon to sleep (sleep ticks down on the sleeping pokemon's turn vs nightmare checking end of step.)
  • Does Sleep Talk need to ban non move actions?
Moonshot Pet Projects
  • Not being able to combo snowscape with A-Veil is sad. Dream Eater and Venom Drench have similar behavior, but I don't care about them.
Text Issues or Other Oddities
  • Simple Beam counts steps while Entrainment, Gastro Acid, Worry Seed all count turns.
  • First Impression should perhaps be templated like fake out? Right now in theory you could get a second hit of first impression by comboing it to an auto hit move.
  • Electro Shot, Meteor Beam and Skull Bash are using an outdated template.
  • Egg Bomb normal variant contains the text of egg bomb (trap)
  • Egg Bomb, Future Sight, Doom Desire use "delayed attack" instead of "delayed damage"
 
Nightmare timing means it only deals 1 tick of damage if a faster pokemon puts a slower pokemon to sleep.
Click to expand...
Highlighting this: I specifically wanted to use nightmare until I learned this was how it worked and therefore can't justify it. Compares very unfavourably to Spite rn.
 
I think I should post about this one instead of trying to get someone with it
Aroma Veil is supposed to make you immune to Torment, but it was written when Torment inflicted Sealed and now it doesn't
 
Also, I seem to remember that a patch (Jan?) was supposed to change Magic Coat and Snatch to work on combos, but it seems like it was only Magic Coat that actually got changed. Am I misremembering or is the DAT out of date?
 
8.3b charges you a tech every time you use a Max Move.
(It could also be read to charge you a tech for every move but I think that reading is sufficiently Obviously Wrong to not worry about it.)
 
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