SM OU Believers (Peaked #4 - 1700+)

[Beastly Grant]

..:: INTRODUCTION ::..

Hi y'all! It has been a long time since I last posted anything up here. After a long time of hiatus, I decided to make a comeback 3 months ago, experiencing different playstyles and making many teams. Among the teams, I am most proud of this Stall team that makes laddering a relatively easy chore. My highest peak is 1744 in OU Suspect Laddering, and the absence of Dugtrio (permanently now since Arena is now banned) makes the team shines.

..::: TEAM OVERVIEW ::..

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..:: DETAILS ::..

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Protect
​

Stall is annoying, and Mega Sableye Stall is even more ridiculously painstaking to deal with. While Mega Sableye isn't as broken as how it was during ORAS (blame the Tapus and Z-Nuke), he still plays a great part in a full Stall team due to its defensive stats and the gift of Magic Bounce.

EVs and Nature are standard to stand against Heatran's Magma Storm most cases, Mega Medicham, etc. Sets are pretty straightforward as well:

Knock Off means a loss of items, especially useful against stuff like Heatran and Celesteela as knocking their Leftovers as soon as possible mean they have a hard time to stay around.
Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers instantly as well as opposing defensive Pokemon such as Celesteela and Toxapex.
Protect means getting into Mega form safely, and it also serves to stall for turns as the team revolves around a lot of statuses.
Recover for self-sustaining, also help to stall out Heatran's Magma Storm so that it will be no more of a threat (Chansey and Toxapex hate Heatran which traps)​

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
​

Ahh... the lovely pink blob... NOPE! Chansey has been known as an ultimate tank, and in fact, it's an important member of the team since she manages to tank most special attackers and spread the status for the team to stall out enemy effectively. On the defensive size, she's no joke as well thansk to the aid of Eviolite.

Her EVs and Nature are standard as a tanker. The movesets are set to fit the team more, and since we have her partner Clefable it isn't a hard decision on what to use:

Stealth Rock is an essential hazard layer that is effective for weakening the opponent's team, especially if their tankers like Heatran / Celesteela have lost their Lefties.
Toxic is for spreading statuses on the foes, especially rewarding if things like Landorus-T or Tapu Lele gets caught. The former LOVES to jump into Chansey to scare it away, while the latter has the annoying Psyshock that can actually 2HKO the blob if having Choice Specs / Life Orb and can wreck stall if not careful.
Seismic Toss is the most reliable way for Chansey to deal damage and cripple opponents. The high PP, fixed accuracy, and fixed damage that actually deals a lot against many glass cannon makes the move valuable.
Soft-Boiled is for self-sustaining, which is essential as a stall mon.​

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
​

Pink Blob #2 of the team, Clefable is a great addition to the team especially against common setup Pokemon such as SD Mawile-M that lacks Iron Head, dual-dance Zygarde, DD Charizard-X and so on.

EVs and Nature are for best tanking versus physical attackers, and with Chansey, the utility can be spread out for the benefit of the whole team:

Moonblast is a good STAB and deals moderate damage against many things. It keeps things like Zygarde and Charizard-X at bay (the latter can be stalled out with the combination of Wish - Protect and weaken with Moonblast).
Wish is its way of recovery, which is great for stalling out PP of strong attacker such as Mawile-M's Play Rough. It can also be passed to other allies so there's that.
Protect is for stalling with Wish, and is also a great way to scout Specs Lele and to stall for Toxic damage.
Heal Bell cures all statuses for the team, great if many members are crippled with Burn / Poisoned or some haxy Frozen shenanigans... A good move for the whole team.​

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Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
​

Toxapex is a godsend addition to stall composition from Sun/Moon, and it's so hard to kills due to its access to strong move-sets for Stall. Basically a punching bag, Toxapex can jump in, take some damage, and either cripples with a possible burn from Scald or a layer of Toxic Spikes that cripples offensive teams. Toxapex and Clefable works together really well as they handle each other's threats.

Standard EVs and Nature gearing towards Physical Defensive as its typing can tank a lot of threats, and a bit of Special Defense to stay strong against common stuff like Shadow Ball Gengar or survive Earth Power from Heatran, though it is unwise to keep Toxapex against Heatran unless it is known to not carry Magma Storm.

Scald offers moderate damage and a 30% chance to burn which can turn an offensive threat to the level of manageable, such as Bisharp, Mega Scizor and Kartana.
Haze shuts down many set-up attackers, which is cool if they are things that Clefable cannot handle. On another note, it has great PP so if we end up in a PP stalling situation there's that.
Recover for self-sustaining. Recover + Haze can really help stalling out many setup physical attacker (unless Crit).
Toxic Spikes for giving a hard time to offensive team. Against a stall team, having Toxic Spikes up can pressure them to Defog or to neutralize with Toxapex, which gives an opportunity for Ferrothorn to lay another layer of Spikes.​

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
​

As Stall team is generally weak to Tapu Lele, Ferrothorn is a nice answer to it as it can tank both Psyshock and Moonblast with ease. Aside from that, its typing and stats are extremely sturdy, and its ability can hurt many U-turners which is great. Moreover, it works really well in tandem with Toxapex to pressure hazards upon opposing Stall team and is a great answer to Tapu Fini as well considering she carries Taunt and annoys other members a lot with Nature's Power. Another thing that it wishes to demolish is Mega Gyarados with Taunt as he is the rare one that can harm Toxapex and break through Clefable's Unaware.

EVs and Nature are standard against Tail Glow Manaphy and at the same time against Physical Attackers like Mega Mawile unless it has Fire Fang. As for the moves:

Spikes is a topping on top of all the layers to fully punish switches from the opponent. Work well with Toxapex's Toxic Spikes to pressure hazards against opposing Stall, unless they want to risk getting their Sableye-M getting poisoned.
Leech Seed is Ferrothorn's way to recover and to weaken those that decide to stay against Ferrothorn. An annoying move indeed.
Power Whip is its STAB with fair power to actually deal damages especially after they are sufficiently weakened on switch-in. It is a way to handle Mega Swampert in Rain team.
Knock Off makes Lefties no more, takes off Choice Specs / Choice Band on things, and scout for Z-Move on switch-in. A good move to offer a harder time for the opponent to stay relevant after its Item is knocked off.​

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Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind
- Defog
​

Mandibuzz is so underrated right now it's not even fair. It is usually compared with its fellow bird-mate, Skarmory, which offer similar utility but a more "favorable" typing. However, Mandibuzz is super tanky and fits the team surprisingly well. In particular, it is the answer to Marowak-Alolan and Hoopa-Unbound which is an extremely powerful stall-breaker, which Skarmory fails in dealing against. Moreover, Foul Play is a mroe reliable way of sponging damage against physical Attacker compared to Counter. With this team, it offers Defog against pesky hazards which is not great against the team, and phazing method to shoo those Sub Attacker / gimmick setup attacker away and cripple switch-in with Hazard layers.

EVs and Natures are standard to maximize offensive prowess. Movesets are tailored to fit the team better, in particular:

Roost is for self sustaining, since Mandibuzz is weak against Stealth Rock so it needs some form of recovery after successfully defogging / taking damages.
Foul Play deals heavy damage against setup sweepers, such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and many more. Thanks to its bulk, it can easily withstand one attack from them and deal back a ton of damage for a kill, though it must be wary of potential Z-moves from things that it is tanking form, such as Fightinium Z Kartana, Flyium Z/Rockium Z Landorus-T, Flyium Z Dragonite...
Whirlwind is really valuable in a team full of hazards, and is good against SubAttacker as they can be tough to deal with if left unchecked behind a layer of Substitute.
Defog may be counter-intuitive but is useful against opposing's hazard to keep the team healthy on every switch for a better tanking capacity.​

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..:: THREAT LIST ::..
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: Very tough to deal with if it has Taunt and Psyshock at the same time. The only real way is to snatch a good opportunity to throw a Toxic at them on switch-in, weaken them with Seismic Toss on Chansey on the same turn that they taunt, or handle around with Ferrothorn. They have to be played around with care.

: It is very setup-dependent, so we need to check before actually tanking it since ThunderPunch can deal massive damage against Toxapex, Fire Fang can OHKO Ferrothorn and Iron Head can turn Clefable into minced meat. Luckily, they tend not to carry all 3 moves so it can always be played around with Toxapex / Ferrothorn / Clefable.

: Normally not a threat since we have both Chansey and Ferrothorn, but Z-Wild Charge can OHKO Chansey so play safe with Ferrothorn first.

: We are talking about Magma Storm variants here. If tank, Sableye-M can withstand Magma Storm, PP-stall it, as well as knock off its Lefties. If offensive, Chansey can deal with it normally.

: Their strong STABs usually wrecks our combo of Toxapex / Clefable, but can be handled by a single Mandibuzz so makes sure to keep him alive or there is absolutely no way to stop those monsters.

: Normally he is easily stalled by Chansey, but the recent rise to Rain Dance makes Toxic obsolete against him, and +6 Surf in Rain can actually 2HKO Chansey. Try to switch to Ferrothorn instead and kill him as fast as possible. If he fails to die after sacrificing Ferrothorn, use Clefable to continue since Rain Dance Manaphy lacks recovery. and should be sufficiently weakened by Ferrothorn's Power Whip.

BandedTar is actually wall-breaking against this team, and we have to fear for both of its STAB. Just play careful against him using Toxapex as a punching bag and handle accordingly with Ferrothorn if using Stone Edge, or Clefable if using Crunch.

: Congratulation, he's GONE, else Chansey / Toxapex is basically easy prey for him.

and Gangs: Prepare to play a really long game with full of stress on keeping Hazards on and at bay. No real way to actually counter this as we are playing full stall ourselves, so...

: Just cry that you are unlucky enough to face this gimmick blob that actually has no PP limit and can just take the best of your team for his and laugh at your suffering.​

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..:: CONCLUSION ::..

Annnnnd that's all! Honestly this team is relatively safe for me to grind through the ladder as it has fairly few weaknesses, but many times hax happens and that is something nobody has control over. Of course, this team is far from perfect, and if anybody has suggestions for improving the team or if anyone notices unmentioned threats, be my guest.

..:: IMPORTABLE ::..

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Protect

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind
- Defog

 

[Charmflash]

Yo!

I really enjoy the new semi-stall builds that have emerged from the Arena Trap ban and yours is one of the better ones. In fact your team kind of reminds me of this oras gem by tele a bit due to how it uses Ferrothorn. Defog over Rapid Spin looks a bit mediocre but I guess its a necessary evil? The only spin build that I can think of rn is Sableye/Tentacruel/Jirachi like pokemonisfun's old team (holy shit I actually found this).

Unfortunatly I didnt get to use this team myself yet and by looking over it I dont have a lot of changes. The only thing I would change on the spot is Toxic over Haze on Toxapex as it can really throw some mons like Zapdos off guard once they see tspikes. The staat reset is kind of redundant with a unaware user and toxic puts sweepers on a timer anyways. I know that haze has its uses but I like double toxic pex more on a team that relies on wearing down the opposing mons before it gets worn down itself.

I'll get back to you after I playtest this team myself :)

 

[Beastly Grant]

Yo!

I really enjoy the new semi-stall builds that have emerged from the Arena Trap ban and yours is one of the better ones. In fact your team kind of reminds me of this oras gem by tele a bit due to how it uses Ferrothorn. Defog over Rapid Spin looks a bit mediocre but I guess its a necessary evil? The only spin build that I can think of rn is Sableye/Tentacruel/Jirachi like pokemonisfun's old team (holy shit I actually found this).

Unfortunatly I didnt get to use this team myself yet and by looking over it I dont have a lot of changes. The only thing I would change on the spot is Toxic over Haze on Toxapex as it can really throw some mons like Zapdos off guard once they see tspikes. The staat reset is kind of redundant with a unaware user and toxic puts sweepers on a timer anyways. I know that haze has its uses but I like double toxic pex more on a team that relies on wearing down the opposing mons before it gets worn down itself.

I'll get back to you after I playtest this team myself :)

I will say Haze > Toxic, simply because Toxapex has to deal with stuff that Clefable cannot deal with (namely, SD Bisharp / Kartana / Scizor-M whom Clefable all cannot fare against well. I know I have Mandibuzz to deal with but occasionally Any +2 Z-Move can kill Mandi pretty easily so it isn't a safe choice.

 

[Charmflash]

I will say Haze > Toxic, simply because Toxapex has to deal with stuff that Clefable cannot deal with (namely, SD Bisharp / Kartana / Scizor-M whom Clefable all cannot fare against well. I know I have Mandibuzz to deal with but occasionally Any +2 Z-Move can kill Mandi pretty easily so it isn't a safe choice.

Like I said, Haze has practical applications, that can turn a lost game into a won one but such is the reasoning for any move you run on a pokemon. Haze and Toxic both have practical applications but based on the current metagame I believe that Toxic outperforms in most cases.

U should always keep in mind that just because u get pressured (by hazards, getting a specific part of your team chipped)/have to sack/are vulnerable to
pokemon x's 1 set if you dont run move x doesn't mean that move y cannot be better in 51% of scenarios in which case u'd rather run move y.

Also for the practical applications of Haze you mentioned:
1. SD MegaZor isnt a problem because of Foul Play Mandibuzz
2. Haze doesn't prevent Kartana from breaking Toxapex as it SD's up and Leaf Blades it doing over 50% (even lefties dont help here iirc)
3. SD Bisharp doesn't sweep you since you theoretically can go into MegaSableye tank +2 Iron Head and WoW it back rendering it useless since Clefable now walls indefinitly.

Case 3 is obviously going to help your opponent win that game and is a scenario where Haze outperforms Toxic, however, is being able to not get pressured by SD Bisharp worth more than being able to Toxic Zapdos? :) (there is also more benefits to both moves this merely serves as an example to show u how u should think :P)

 

[NVT_Sart]

The Team Overall is fine, not much to say, it's more or less US East Stall with Foul Play over Arena Trap, so I'm only gonna mention some minor nitpicks that caught my eye:

1) Your spreads. It's not 2016 anymore, and ironically what you labelled "Standard" sets haven't been Standard anymore for a year or longer.
- Mixed MSab does nothing, max SPD is the way to go to prevent stuff like Greninja spiking on you for free. MMedi is handled by Clefable more than enough.
- Chansey should never ever run max SPD, 248hp/252def/8spd bol or 244hp/252def/12spd bold are superior spreads.
- Toxapex one is the one described in the previous smogdex Analysis if I'm not wrong? It's not a BAD spread per se, but you might as well go max SPD since you won't tank stuff like MMaw, Alowak or Char-X (they run 3 attack roost nowadays) anyways.
- Not sure what the Speed EVs on Mandibuzz are supposed to do, I suppose you only wanted to outspeed Alowak? In that case you can drop 4 EVs and put them in Def instead, since rn you're at 209, while max spe Alowak sits at 207

2) You could potentially run Taunt over WW on Mandibuzz, since I personally don't really see much value in PHazing on a mon that basically "wants" the opposing mon to set up so it can more likely OHKO it with FP and having Taunt on Stall is quite ironically really strong

 

[Beastly Grant]

Like I said, Haze has practical applications, that can turn a lost game into a won one but such is the reasoning for any move you run on a pokemon. Haze and Toxic both have practical applications but based on the current metagame I believe that Toxic outperforms in most cases.

U should always keep in mind that just because u get pressured (by hazards, getting a specific part of your team chipped)/have to sack/are vulnerable to
pokemon x's 1 set if you dont run move x doesn't mean that move y cannot be better in 51% of scenarios in which case u'd rather run move y.

Also for the practical applications of Haze you mentioned:
1. SD MegaZor isnt a problem because of Foul Play Mandibuzz
2. Haze doesn't prevent Kartana from breaking Toxapex as it SD's up and Leaf Blades it doing over 50% (even lefties dont help here iirc)
3. SD Bisharp doesn't sweep you since you theoretically can go into MegaSableye tank +2 Iron Head and WoW it back rendering it useless since Clefable now walls indefinitly.

Case 3 is obviously going to help your opponent win that game and is a scenario where Haze outperforms Toxic, however, is being able to not get pressured by SD Bisharp worth more than being able to Toxic Zapdos? :) (there is also more benefits to both moves this merely serves as an example to show u how u should think :P)

After trying out using Toxic instead of Haze, I find myself catching off-guard offensive threats much easier (Latios, Zapdos really love getting in front of Toxapex). While dealing with Bisharp SD and sometimes Clefable CM harder (especially the Stored Power variant, which isn't that common anyway). I will test more to see which one is more beneficial.

The Team Overall is fine, not much to say, it's more or less US East Stall with Foul Play over Arena Trap, so I'm only gonna mention some minor nitpicks that caught my eye:

1) Your spreads. It's not 2016 anymore, and ironically what you labelled "Standard" sets haven't been Standard anymore for a year or longer.
- Mixed MSab does nothing, max SPD is the way to go to prevent stuff like Greninja spiking on you for free. MMedi is handled by Clefable more than enough.
- Chansey should never ever run max SPD, 248hp/252def/8spd bol or 244hp/252def/12spd bold are superior spreads.
- Toxapex one is the one described in the previous smogdex Analysis if I'm not wrong? It's not a BAD spread per se, but you might as well go max SPD since you won't tank stuff like MMaw, Alowak or Char-X (they run 3 attack roost nowadays) anyways.
- Not sure what the Speed EVs on Mandibuzz are supposed to do, I suppose you only wanted to outspeed Alowak? In that case you can drop 4 EVs and put them in Def instead, since rn you're at 209, while max spe Alowak sits at 207

2) You could potentially run Taunt over WW on Mandibuzz, since I personally don't really see much value in PHazing on a mon that basically "wants" the opposing mon to set up so it can more likely OHKO it with FP and having Taunt on Stall is quite ironically really strong

1) I tried out those better spreads and they seem to perform much better. I still opt for defensive Toxapex just to be able to jump into Tyranitar easier.

2) I find WW really helps against sub-attacker, also to weaken them with hazards in the case of impasse. I haven't tried Taunt yet but I find merits in WW but I will try WW to see for myself.