Right, but if something with a respectable stat distribution gets Shell Smash, it would easily join the ranks of what you mentioned. I personally disagree with adding context to the moves for this thread. If we're measuring the best moves, we're measuring the best moves--not the pokemon that get them.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Move Best Moves in the OU Metagame
- Thread starter Arcanine is Regal
- Start date
- Status
There would be no practical usefulness of ranking moves without considering how they can actually be utilized, which requires consideration of what pokemon get them. Otherwise it'd be like ranking Regigigas based on his stats alone without taking Slow Start or his horrid movepool into account. Shift Gear is a great move in theory, but given the only pokemon that can learn it in OU (aside from Smeargle) is KlingKlang, who is decidedly subpar, I don't think it makes sense to rank it higher than Dragon Dance even though technically it completely outclasses it. (+1/+2 instead of +1/+1)
I think this needs to be expanded on in the OP, because the title is "Best Moves", and I'm taking that quite literally. Nowhere in the OP does it say, "talk about this in terms of distribution". If you were to change the topic to "Best Abilities", I'd nominate Wonder Guard and Magic Bounce, despite their distribution being horrendous. I believe in
Secret Sword and Psyshock
The ability to be a mixed attacker while only investing in SAtk? Yes please.
The ability to be a mixed attacker while only investing in SAtk? Yes please.
Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, Moonblast, and Pixilate Hyper Voice are easily some of the best STABs you could ask for, it's similar to Shadow Ball, as it only has 3 Types resisting it : Fire (Aside from Heatran, the occasionnal Victini and Charizard Y, the other ones in OU are or quite frail, or neutral to it.), Poison (Venusaur and Scolipede being the only common sights in OU.) and Steel (Okay, this one is more common, Zor, Aegislash, Skarm, Tran and Excadrill are the most common ones, but I won't deny it's a fairly common type of Pokes in the Meta.). However, it truly shines as an offensive move as it hits Super Effectively 3 types : Let's start of with the most important, the Dragon type, having a STAB which hits that type Super Effectively while fearing nothing from is an unique perk the Fairy types possesses, as Dragon types are vulnerable from themselves and that, well, Ice type sucks defensively. The fact that it's also super effective against the Fighting type is huge as well, as it prevents some otherwise fearsome threats from coming safely, especially you, Conkeldurr. (Most of the Fairies have a good special defense as well, so they can check Keldeo decently.) Finally, but not the least, the fact that it hits super effectively the Dark type, which is becoming a more and more common sight in the meta also is huge, especially since most of the offensively based ones (Mega Gardevoir/Azumarill.) can get rid of Specially Based Ttar easily, both 2HKOing him. Also, Dazzling Gleam has a relatively good distribution, with good users such as Espeon who can use it well to bypass the 3 mentionned type, 2HKOing most of them, so I wouldn't say it has limited distribution, as it can be found as a non-STAB solely as a coverage move, showing how good an offensive type Fairy is.
Don't get me wrong, Fairy STAB has its flaws, especially the fact that the Steel type is a problem to it, something Shadow Ball doesn't have, but it still is a very good STAB to have, since it touches so many important types, an achievement the Ghost type can only dream of.
Don't get me wrong, Fairy STAB has its flaws, especially the fact that the Steel type is a problem to it, something Shadow Ball doesn't have, but it still is a very good STAB to have, since it touches so many important types, an achievement the Ghost type can only dream of.
Last edited:
I see that people are mainly discussing moves with high base powers or boosting moves, but how about status moves? Toxic has the ability to stall or break down walls, Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, and Thunder Wave slows down its victims significantly while also providing a 30% chance of them not acting that turn. I wouldn't necessarily define the best moves in the metagame as the ones that do the most damage or increase your stats the most, but rather as the moves that can turn the tide of a battle. Status provides the chance to make comebacks or to shut down threats before they become truly dangerous.
Im surprised no one has mentioned Hidden Power, the sheer versatility of the move makes it so great.
Actually, I believe the front post by MegaScizor or another thread should contain meta defining moves with wide distribution such as Earthquake, The Beams, Hidden Power, Dragon Dance, Thunder Wave, VoltSwitch/U-Turn. But no signature moves like Psycho Boost. Also, nothing like how Return is a godly move when used by Pinsir and Diggersby. Return sucks in OU unless it's being used by those two. A list of "the best" moves that many pokemon in OU can learn would help beginners.
Belly Drum: It quadruples your already high Attack, it has a wide distribution range for many Pokemon with high Attack: Snorlax, Hariyama, Darmanitan,... The most notable user of Belly Drum is Azumarill, although it has not so good Attack, it has Huge Power and Belly Drum, just Belly Drum out and Azumarill reaches an insanely high 1744 attack.
I would like to second volt switch/u-turn.
Not only does it allow you to gain momentum, but it can hit switch-ins for nice damage while also letting you pick a better match up. For example, if your opponent knows your landorus is scarfed and thinks you are going to EQ their Heatran, they might switch in their Latias to set up a calm mind. But you wouldn't EQ early in the game because no one is going to let you EQ a Heatran. They make the switch and you go for u turn and Latias takes a SE U-turn AND you are able to switch in to a check/counter.
Slow u-turn/volt switches let you bring in a sweeper safely, while fast u-turn/volt switches let you scout and pick a more favorable matchup if your opponent switches, which takes away the prediction of what you switch into if you know they are going to switch.
Not only does it allow you to gain momentum, but it can hit switch-ins for nice damage while also letting you pick a better match up. For example, if your opponent knows your landorus is scarfed and thinks you are going to EQ their Heatran, they might switch in their Latias to set up a calm mind. But you wouldn't EQ early in the game because no one is going to let you EQ a Heatran. They make the switch and you go for u turn and Latias takes a SE U-turn AND you are able to switch in to a check/counter.
Slow u-turn/volt switches let you bring in a sweeper safely, while fast u-turn/volt switches let you scout and pick a more favorable matchup if your opponent switches, which takes away the prediction of what you switch into if you know they are going to switch.
I don't remember reading that at all originally. I guess he added it then.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
False, time and time again I've made teams that don't utilize SR in any fashion but happen to be particularly more successful than my teams that do oddly.
I don't understand where the big thing about "SR is mandatory" comes from, sure it's one of the best moves in the game and it's easy to fit on a team, but it's in no way mandatory. I personally believe U-Turn and Scald are the best moves in the game just because they just skew risk/reward into the favor of the user, which pretty much gives you an advantage 40% of the time. SR is amazing, but I wouldn't put it up there with Scald just because Scald is so rarely truly "countered" aside from heal bell resists or bulky char X (still can't switch into keldeo). Same with U-Turn over scald in the argument, momentum is way too good in this metagame to pass up.
No move is mandatory to be competitively viable, that's just plain overhyping it
Extreme Speed: Although this move has a very low distribution, most of the Pokémon who get this move appreciate its benefits. Its +2 priority allows it to bypass all other priority attacking moves except Fake Out (especially Thundurus' Thunder Wave and Talonflame's Brave Bird, who both have below average defenses). With more power than ordinary priority moves, it inflicts more damage to revenge kill fast and frail Pokémon. It's mostly used by Dragonite, Entei, Lucario and Arcanine.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Protect yet. It's obviously a fantastic move with fantastic distribution.
It lets you scout out opponents' sets, PP stall, heal up with Leftovers to tank hits better, activate items such as Toxic Orb, get Speed Boosts under your belt, and works beautifully in tandem with status afflictions such as Toxic and Burn.
It lets you scout out opponents' sets, PP stall, heal up with Leftovers to tank hits better, activate items such as Toxic Orb, get Speed Boosts under your belt, and works beautifully in tandem with status afflictions such as Toxic and Burn.
Also Zygarde, who despite his lower usage can use it to potentially dangerous effect as he's normally behind a sub and can use it to bypass his subpar speed to keep said sub.
I don't think Stealth Rocks are literally mandatory for a team to be competitive, but in general, given their low cost and high reward (HO gets broken sashes and sturdy, and some extra OHKOs and 2HKOs; Stall gets to wear things down much quicker), I think that unless the team synergizes not just well but so tightly that nothing could possibly be edited to run SR without ruining the team's effectiveness, in most cases it's probably a much better idea to fit it in somewhere than to forego it.
Not that it really matters, but no, it was there originally. I say that both because I remember it being there, and because there's no "edited" sign on the OP.
In the end, you're right--it doesn't matter. I'm happy to concede though, if it was. I'm also happy to continue meaningful conversation in the thread.
Comments on italics
Last edited:
Calm Mind and Bulk Up: Boosting offensive capabilities and defensive capabilities simultaneously is amazing - it may only be by one stage each, but if DDance gets listed then so should these two. Makes way for some nice late-game sweeping e.g. Crocune, Bulk Up Talonflame, CM Clefable... They also both have decent distribution. With the right team support, CM/Bulk Up sets can be a really nasty surprise.
Bulk Up Conk be punchin' holes son.
Bulk Up Conk be punchin' holes son.
I don't fully disagree but as for your examples, Bulk Up does virtually nothing for Talonflame unless it's gotten three or four boosts and by that time your opponent has hopefully been wise enough to stamp it out.
Really? BU Talonflame runs Will-O-Wisp to handle phsyical attackers easier, for example Tyranitar:
252 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 296-350 (82.2 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 148-175 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage (while roosting)
And given Stone Edge's wonderous accuracy, a miss could lead to another Bulk Up, which means
252 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 222-264 (61.6 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
And this is just Tyranitar, BU Talonflame can take on almost all physical attackers and tears up Tyranitar+Excadrill combo thats been common lately
- Status