Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[asterat]

Evidence for ban in case a anyone is undecided.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-59867836
kid diddler: gg
dood06 left.
business as usual: lol no
business as usual: this shit needs to go
kid diddler: lol no
kid diddler: its best way to play
business as usual: how do you argue that?
kid diddler: its hilarious
business as usual: that's not the piint
business as usual: point*
kid diddler: sure it is
business as usual: use that in pure hackmons, these are supposed to be bnalanced
business as usual: balanced*
kid diddler: thats the funny part
kid diddler: you get?
business as usual: nope.
business as usual: it's stupid
kid diddler: dont be mad cause i thought of it first
kid diddler: gg get gud

 

[Rumors]

I knew it'd only be a matter of time before the games got hacked. Now we can answer all those weird mechanics questions we had that were impossible to check in standard play.

Also, yeah... no Purely Huge Power. We don't have the other abilities that keep it in check.

 

[Arcticblast]

mad @ sloths

I would normally say "that's what you get when you don't prepare for things that exist" (because you really went into that with no preparation for Huge Power when you should have known it was allowed), but I agree that Huge Power is basically "spam physical moves".

I definitely don't want to be that guy running six Fur Coat 'mons, so...

 

[Rumors]

Evidence for ban in case a anyone is undecided.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-59867836
kid diddler: gg
dood06 left.
business as usual: lol no
business as usual: this shit needs to go
kid diddler: lol no
kid diddler: its best way to play
business as usual: how do you argue that?
kid diddler: its hilarious
business as usual: that's not the piint
business as usual: point*
kid diddler: sure it is
business as usual: use that in pure hackmons, these are supposed to be bnalanced
business as usual: balanced*
kid diddler: thats the funny part
kid diddler: you get?
business as usual: nope.
business as usual: it's stupid
kid diddler: dont be mad cause i thought of it first
kid diddler: gg get gud

Karma's a b!tch. :D

 

[Uselesscrab]

I just learned today that Parting Shot, if deflected by Magic Bounce, forces your opponent to switch out. xD It's a lot of fun.

 

[PlatypusVenom]

Firstly, I would like to say I finally made it to the top of the BH ladder! Helping me a great deal along the way is someone I like to call Mustard. Mustard is the first effective lasting Protean abuser I've seen so far. Here is what lies beneath his unique name:
============
Mustard (Regigigas) @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Spore
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Claw
============
In practice, Shift Gear is used to set up stats while simultaneously becoming Steel type to resist oncoming attacks. If you want to put something to sleep, go ahead and use Spore. It doesn't matter if they reflect it, because you are now immune! You can even use Spore if you think someone is about to Spore you. Sacred Sword and Shadow claw are easily interchangeable, with completely unresisted coverage. I was once tricked some Choice Specs, but Protean gave me enough boost with STAB to finish off the rest of their four party members with a series of switches.

Now that I am done ranting/reporting/feeding my own ego, any thoughts? We finally have a Protean sweeper that works thus so far.

 

[Adrian Marin]

What I don't like is that it cannot defeat Imposter reliably and must rely on an anti-imposter such as Shedinja, blocking that set is really hard though, comes to show how OP Protean, and even more, safe sporing really is.

 

[Halliday]

So a set I enjoy is magic guard Ho-oh, but not the standard life orb set. I enjoy running it with toxic orb, and the moves brave bird, flare blitz, psycho shift and heal order. Toxic orb is crucial as it makes it immune to spore/dark void. Brave bird and flare blitz are just strong stabs. Heal order is what makes this set so fun to use, though, as it never dies. The ability to hit hard, get past shedinja (oh yeah, that's what psycho shift is for.), and recover hp reliably is great.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Someone who messed with the RAM in his 3DS changed his encounters to see mega Lati@s, so it looks like the game may support mega forms that dont mega-evolve. Notice how theres no mega stone thing next to its name.

Hide

View attachment 2690

This could change BH forever, especially if the mega forms for lati@s are released, nice to see that verbat can't ignore this argument anymore (no offense verbat, wouldn't take that arguement either if I was managing such a big OM)

 

[Arcticblast]

This could change BH forever, especially if the mega forms for lati@s are released, nice to see that verbat can't ignore this argument anymore (no offense verbat, wouldn't take that arguement either if I was managing such a big OM)

Since when was verbatim ignoring anything about Mega Evolutions...?

 

[Snaquaza]

I was just testing with Adrian Marin if Judgment worked with Protean, but however, instead of turning always into the Normal Type or to the Type of the Plate, it didn't change type at all, is this supposed to be this way?

Edit: It did change the opponents Imposter (who had obviously no Plate)'s type to Normal, but not mine that had no Plate

 

[Arcticblast]

We can't find that out until December, sadly.

 

[PlatypusVenom]

What I don't like is that it cannot defeat Imposter reliably and must rely on an anti-imposter such as Shedinja

Well I must say that yes, blocking Protean must be really hard, and easily countered by Imposter, which is where my standard Shedinja comes into play. It is very useful for blocking all kinds of sweepers, though it does require more maintenance than most team members.

So a set I enjoy is magic guard Ho-oh... with toxic orb... The ability to hit hard, get past shedinja (oh yeah, that's what psycho shift is for.)

As Burger has so nicely brought up, sets like this Ho-Oh would be difficult to defend, especially with the lack of any status absorbers on my team, save a grass type for spore. This gave rise to a unique set for my Shedinja, users of Dark Void/Spore, and my entire team in general: Prankster Safeguard. Originally I just ran it on my Shedinja for obvious reasons, then realized it is useful in other ways. I put Safeguard on my Prankster mon as well and, noticing Sheddy hasn't used it at all since then, replaced the move.



Completely off-topic from this post, but I firmly believe that Pure/Huge Power should be banned on PS. sugarhigh is running around with a Slaking that 1HKOs everything. Just putting that out there.

 

[Uselesscrab]

My friend Saucier and I came up with this strategy randomly. I know some people may not appreciate this, but I really like this ability and moveset. Basically, it can act offensively or defensively based on what you need more on your team.

Offensive Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Aeroblast
- Defog/an attack
- Roost
- coverage move

Defensive Rayquaza @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Defog
- Roost
- FeatherDance/something else

Yveltal also works in this spot. The idea is flying STAB coupled with priority in an attempt to take momentum.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

So currently on the ladder Mega Evos will regress to their normal form when sent out into battle. Given that permanent megas are possible on the cartage, when will we be able to use them on the ladder?

 

[supercoven94]

My friend Saucier and I came up with this strategy randomly. I know some people may not appreciate this, but I really like this ability and moveset. Basically, it can act offensively or defensively based on what you need more on your team.

Offensive Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Aeroblast
- Defog/an attack
- Roost
- coverage move

Defensive Rayquaza @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Defog
- Roost
- FeatherDance/something else

Yveltal also works in this spot. The idea is flying STAB coupled with priority in an attempt to take momentum.

Those seems nice sets but i think that Gale Wings is a great ability especially for offensive sets, a priority Brave Bird or Aeroblast coming off a 150 base atk/spa can be very powerful, also is great a priority Roost to recover hazards damage whitout drawbacks. I don't see much utility in Defog 'cause removes hazards also on your side.

 

[PlatypusVenom]

Those seems nice sets but i think that Gale Wings is a great ability especially for offensive sets, a priority Brave Bird or Aeroblast coming off a 150 base atk/spa can be very powerful, also is great a priority Roost to recover hazards damage whitout drawbacks. I don't see much utility in Defog 'cause removes hazards also on your side.

Defog is a wonderful tool. Yes, it removes hazards from both sides, but not all teams rely on hazards. I would definitely be willing to sacrifice my own set of Stealth Rocks for a few turns while clearing the opponent's so that I can freely switch in Shedinja or other SR weak Pokemon. An excellent trade off, in my opinion. However, if you get full layers of spikes plus stealth rock, you could just as easily work Rapid Spin onto a Pixilate, Refrigerate, or Scrappy set, even if it's an offensive one. Defog is simply an alternative useful in some situations more than others. Please don't bash it.

 

[Arcticblast]

So currently on the ladder Mega Evos will regress to their normal form when sent out into battle. Given that permanent megas are possible on the cartage, when will we be able to use them on the ladder?

Whenever they are implemented; I have no idea what priority this might end up having.

 

[Saucier]

What are your guys' thoughts on moves like Forest's Curse that change the opponent's type? I rather like the ability to do so, as you can retain your STAB(s) instead of having moves for type coverage, make it so that your moves are always super effective, make the enemy lose their STAB(s) (if they're running moves that are STABs, which is very likely). Of course, the downside to this is that you lack the ability to actually do damage for one turn, which can potentially be bad.

Here's an example (the names are a joke):

Kyurem-Black (Kyurem-White) @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Forest's Curse
- Extremespeed
- Recover/Rapid Spin/Move for type coverage without the need for Forest's Curse/other

or for a physical attacker

Kyurem-White (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash (are there any other good/decent physical ice type moves?)
- Forest's Curse
- Ice Shard
- Recover/Rapid Spin/Move for type coverage without the need for Forest's Curse/other

I'm new to the forums and semi-new to BH (haven't really played against other people save for a friend) so bear in mind that I'm slightly unaware of what would be good complimentary abilities, etc. but I think this has potential to be decent or unexpected, at the least.

 

[PlatypusVenom]

What are your guys' thoughts on moves like Forest's Curse that change the opponent's type? I rather like the ability to do so, as you can retain your STAB(s) instead of having moves for type coverage, make it so that your moves are always super effective, make the enemy lose their STAB(s) (if they're running moves that are STABs, which is very likely). Of course, the downside to this is that you lack the ability to actually do damage for one turn, which can potentially be bad.

Here's an example (the names are a joke):

Kyurem-Black (Kyurem-White) @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Forest's Curse
- Extremespeed
- Recover/Rapid Spin/Move for type coverage without the need for Forest's Curse/other

or for a physical attacker

Kyurem-White (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash (are there any other good/decent physical ice type moves?)
- Forest's Curse
- Ice Shard
- Recover/Rapid Spin/Move for type coverage without the need for Forest's Curse/other

I'm new to the forums and semi-new to BH (haven't really played against other people save for a friend) so bear in mind that I'm slightly unaware of what would be good complimentary abilities, etc. but I think this has potential to be decent or unexpected, at the least.

Welcome to Balanced Hackmons and to the Smogon forums Saucier! While these sets are creative, they also seem like a gimmick to me, personally. While some gimmicks are more useful than they appear, most are simply a one-time shot in the dark. I'm not sure about this, but I believe that Soak, Forest's Curse, and Trick-or-Treat are bounce by Magic Bounce. If this is the case, after one use, your opponent will see it coming and simply reflect it, possibly with coverage moves of their own for such a situation. I'm definitely not saying not to use this, but be prepared for anything.

While on the subject of gimmicks, one that has come in handy for me is one I invented called "Pecha Trick". As you might guess, it is anti-Poison Heal. After I take their Toxic Orb and cure their poison, they are no longer safe from sleep for the duration of the battle. As I was saying earlier, gimmicks are an unreliable strategy. Due to this, I create a Pokemon that is not dedicated to performing this function, but rather take something immune to Toxic and throw a trick and pecha on the set. If I notice not too many ph abusers are romping around, I replace the Pecha berry with Leftovers or Lum berry and the move with something else.

Adaptable gimmicks are often the best gimmicks.

 

[TheCommadore]

I would like to put my 2 cents in and say that we should allow the mega evos without needing to mega evolve or hold the items. It would be a shame to let some of the biggest additions to bhxy get stuck holding a useless item and have crappy abilities. Besides the games previously have handled forms (except for the case of arceus) by allowing the modded pokes to stay in form and with hacked abilities.

Also hp/pp are broken, they just are.

 

[Rumors]

I'd like to keep the option of doing normal megalutions open too. While the majority of the time having a megalution with the ability and item of your choice would be better, some of them have some nifty gimmicks they can pull off using normal mechanics. Such as Drought Houndoom megavolving to take advantage of Solar Power without needing to use a turn to set-up sun or switch from a different Drought user (that thing hits harder than you'd expect).

 

[Uselesscrab]

I agree. It's also really annoying that, for example, my Fur Coat Aggron evolves into Filter Mega Aggron, and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[Redless]

Whose idea was it to unban power abilities anyway? Whoever you are, you're wrong.

I agree. It's also really annoying that, for example, my Fur Coat Aggron evolves into Filter Mega Aggron, and there's nothing I can do about it.

Actually, there is something you can do about it:

1. Skill Swap with Fur Coat "mini" Aggron
2. Mega evolve and Skill Swap Fur Coat back

But Fur Coats are cruel.

 

[BlankZero]

Or if its only other offensive moves can't beat yveltal. It is check able, though.

Also, opposing Mewtwo y make amazing Mewtwo y checks.
^

That's called Overcentralizing.