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BW UU Big Scale Magic Show (Peaked #4)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by PK Gaming, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,154
    [​IMG]
    Big Scale Magic Show​



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Overview

    Hello, and welcome to my little magic show! Before Round 7, I actually grew tired of the the sand BW UU metagame. I'm not going to go into detail about why I felt this way or whether sand was broken or not, the point is UU just wasn't fun for me anymore. However, by the graces of Arceus himself the UU council had deemed Sand to be too strong for UU, and it was banished to the far fringes of Mordor (possibly forever). Round 7 was quite literally the perfect time to get back into competitive UU for me. We received several new Pokemon (Mienshao, Scrafty, Moxie Heracross and Imposter Ditto) Chansey didn't drop, and with sand gone the UU metagame was a clean slate. I didn't have a clear focus at first, but after witnessing Moxie Heracross' sheer destructive sweeping ability, I wanted my team to incorporate Moxie Heracross in some way shape or form. I was like a kid in a toy store; "I want that!!!"

    To skip all the boring team blabedy blah building talk, I wanted to create a team thats one and only goal was to facilitate a Heracross sweep. Initially, I thought this was achieved by spamming the crap out of hazards to weaken the opposing team enough so that Heracross could basically OHKO anything with any of its STABs or coverage moves. Unfortunately, even with hazards littering the playing field, I simply could not bypass Heracross best counter, since Gligar can't be worn down with spikes, is bulky as hell and can heal on a dime. Also, some opponents are capable of keeping hazards off the field and there was no way of removing consistently removing Heracross checks... that is until I started using Zoroark to its maximum potential. Overall i'm happy with the way the team turned out. It suffers from its fair share of flaws (it's hard to create a "pure" balance team in UU that can beat everything) but as long as you play it correctly you can win almost any match. In terms of achievements, this team allowed to me to peak #4 on the PS ladder, and almost go undefeated (fucking Eo) & August was able to secure #8 on the leaderboard as well (he went undefeated).

    Today's team is brought you by yours truly, with some amazing help from Kokoloko and playtesting from August. The RMT format was heavily inspired by Bluewind's Somewhere Over The Rainbow team. Don't forget to check out the BW UU metagame on the way out! BW UU is your source for awesome games, memorable battles, fierce Pokemon and even fiercer players. Head on over to Showdown/PO2 and play a UU match today. Without a further ado, sit back and enjoy the show.

    The lineup


    [​IMG]

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers *** The Opening Act
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail

    Rhyperior is my Stealth Rock setter, my secondary Electric-type check and a primary check to a dozen other threats (like Darmanitan). This is by far the best spread for Rhyperior to use in UU EVER, nothing else even comes close. Kokoloko suggested I use it, and after getting obliterated repeatedly from Electric-types I never went back. I use Rock Blast over Stone Edge so in order to prevent Zapdos from royally fucking me over. Dragon Tail is a surprisingly good move. It can shuffle opposing teams and force them to eat more hazard damage, but its true use is dealing with Flygon. Since I technically don't have a concrete Flygon counter, Rhyperior is usually my best bet at checking it and Dragon Tail does a ton of damage to it. I think I may have mentioned this before(?) but Rhyperior's ability to stick around throughout the match is invaluable. Solid Rock is an incredible defensive ability, and it lets Rhyperior check some of strongest physical attackers in the tier. Barring something absurd like a STAB HJK from Mienshao, Rhyperior can tank a Fighting or Ground type move from things like Cobalion and Scarf Flygon and retaliate with vengeance. Hell, i'll leave my Rhyperior in, if its in my best interests to take out a Cobalion whatever (thank you team preview).

    As a secondary Electric-Type check(you should ALWAYS have one), Rhyperior is pretty solid. Usually, Electric-types will lead with their coverage moves to nail Rhyperior, so I got to Snorlax instead, but if I know they're going to fire a Thunderbolt or a Volt Switch, then i'll gladly go to Rhyperior to stuff them. With all of that Special Defense investment, Rhyperior can take pretty much ANY coverage move thrown at it. If they carry HP ice (they shouldn't) then Rhyperior is a straight up counter to them. If HP Grass is used then Rhyperior a fairly decent check most of time, provided I don't directly switch into HP grass.

    [​IMG]

    Qwilfish @ Leftovers *** The Stagehand
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Waterfall
    - Haze
    - Pain Split

    Qwifish is my teams Spiker and my main check to UU Fighting-types. When building this team, I forbade myself from using Roserade as a spiker and I wanted something that could stick around & check threats. Qwilfish wound up being the perfect candidate, especially after all of those UU Fighters appeared. Seriously, Qwilfish straight up counters 70% of the Fighting-types in UU, and is a hard check to the rest of them. It sets up Spikes on practically everything in UU, especially after it gets an intimidate. I'm baffled as to why this thing isn't used more, it's great Pokemon! Haze is extremely useful for preventing set up sweepers like Kingdra, Scrafty and the like from having their way with your team. I'm actually tempted to run T-wave over Haze in order to cripple practically everything that switches into Haze, but without Haze SubSD Cobalion flat out 6-0es me (Cobalion is a huge threat to this team, SPOILERS). Pain Split's a semi-reliable heal move, but I find that it always gets the job done.

    My only issue with Qwilfish is that he invites Roserade and other Grass-types to switch in for free, which is kind of annoying. It also can't really touch Blastoise (UU's best spinner) though i'm not that worried. Even if it spins once, wearing down Blastoise is incredible easy. Qwilfish happens to be a handy a pocket intimidator, so if something like Sharpedo are threatening to sweep me, I can always switch spam to keep it down.

    [​IMG]

    Shaymin @ Life Orb *** The Stage manager
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Seed Flare
    - Psychic
    - Synthesis
    - Earth Power

    Shaymin just gets shit done. It can attack ferociously and defend like a pro, to me it's like... the definitive "glue" Pokemon. Shaymin is my check to annoying Bulky Water types like Suicune & Milotic that refuse to die and also it provides my team with a key Electric & Ground-type resistances. I decided to use Psychic in order to better deal with Crobat (who's annoying) and opposing Roserade. IMO all offensive Shaymin carry Psychic to slam Roserade... you don't want to give it free reign and switch in for free. My second coverage move is Earth Power, and it may look a little weird, but it's useful for hurting Steel-types like Empoleon & Registeel, and getting the OHKO on healthy Nidoking and Chandelure. It also stops SubCM kou from getting all up in my face. (Seed Flare can miss... true story) I don't regret not running HP Fire because it's weak as dirt and gives me an imperfect speed stat (3 cheers for no Escavaliers!). Synthesis is practically a requirement on Shaymin since I need to be alive for the entirety of the match and 50% healing is just awesome in general. I used to run Rest, but it's failed me a ridiculous amount of times and Synthesis is just better. It's also my 3rd Electric-type check, but I rarely have to resort to using Shaymin to deal with them (or else i'm fucked.)

    It's actual a potent offensive threat, especially when Spikes and SR are down, especially when I get the SpD drop from Seed Flare and it's fairly fast too. Heracross usually does all of the sweeping, by Shaymin's no slouch. I'm considering giving Shaymin Leftovers in order to increase it's staying power... i'm still mulling it over, as each item has its own pros & cons.

    [​IMG]

    Snorlax @ Choice Band *** The Stage Janitor
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake

    Snorlax is extremely effective at taking out those annoying Special attackers. Seriously, if you're your team is weak to Special Attackers, run Snorlax. Lord knows he beats / checks the majority of them. He isn't perfect(no good recovery moves) but Snorlax can get the job done. I use Choice Band Snorlax because I found his other sets to be "weak" or "set up fodder." A ton of player switch their Fighting-types or strong physical attacker into Snorlax, expecting a weak Body Slam, but only to eat a powerful Return or coverage move. I've caught over a dozen Heracross & Mienshao's this way, and it still works. It's second to none at checking Special Attackers, because unlike Umbreon it can actually threaten the vast majority of them. Snorlax is my first answer to annoying things like Raikou, Yanmega & Zapdos, and while i'll admit he isn't perfect, he's still good at taking them down most of the time. CB Snorlax should also be praised for its ability to destroy Chandelure with Pursuit. Chandelure is one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with in UU, and Snorlax switches in and annihilates it for FREE. Switch out or stay in, Snorlax doesn't give a shit, it's going to Pursuit or EQ his ass.

    Another thing I like about Snorlax is its sheer bulk on the physical side too. It's not great, but I can count on it to check things like Scarf Flygon or Sharpedo at max HP. In some cases, Snorlax can be pretty weak. It ends up being a liability when hazards are up and the opponent has ghost immune / several resists, (basically useless against Stall-teams) but most of the time it's ability to destroy most Special Attackers is invaluable for this team.

    [​IMG]

    Zoroark @ Choice Specs *** The Stunt Double
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Trick
    - Focus Blast

    Behold baffling, bamboozling and beautifully bewitching display of devilry. When it comes to eye-popping illusions, there is only one Pokemon that comes to mind. Zoroark is just plain old awesome in UU, and it really gets to me when I see others misuse Zoroark. Most of them adhere to "not using Zoroark until lategame" or "not using Illusion to its fullest potential." On the surface, Zoroark is just a "good" Special Attacker but with Illusion it becomes something much more... a game changer. This stuntman has many jobs, but his main goal on this team is to remove Heracross' counters. It achieves this by switching into battle disguised as Heracross and bluffing a switch. You see, Heracross is kind of a big deal, and people are eager to stop it before it can net a moxie boost. You wouldn't believe how many Ghosts & Gligar's i've nailed, simply because I've switched Zoroark into a Snorlax (while disguised as Heracross). You really have to be aggressive with those bluffs; if you play it safe and disguise as something on the revenge kill, your opponent might suspect something. If you DOUBLE switch into Zoroark, then there's a good chance you might end pulling off an Illusion kill. Another cool thing about bluffing with Zoroark is that it works both ways. When the opponent knows I have Zoroark, i'll sometimes bring out Heracross and have it take on Zoroark's checks / counters. In any case, once Heracross' counters go down/weakened then Heracross has a clean path to victory. The strategy actually works because Heracross & Zoroark share a neutrality to SR, and Heracross' ability(ies) don't have a visual cue and they're Choice users so recoil from LO/orbs etc don't mess up Illusion.

    Choice Specs Zoroark EXTREMELY useful in the lead matchup. Don't even fucking listen to SJCrew i've tricked multiple (reputable even!) players into thinking I was leading with Snorlax or Heracross, but I was in actuality leading with Zoroark in the entire team. Sometimes i'll start the match with a clean 6-5 lead, simply because they thought they had the advantage in the lead matchup. I chose Choice Specs Zoroark because of the addition of Trick into its moveset via BW2 tutors. Trick turned Choice Specs from being a "meh" to "this is THE Zoroark set." Trick cripples so many UU Pokemon (specifically, Heracross counters!) and it messes up team cores. Trick can stop set up users from being a threat, ruins physical attackers and cripples every single wall in the tier. I'll even Trick against things like Togekiss & P2 to prevent them from healing. I could go on and on (10 pages) on what makes Trick so good, but i'll keep it short by saying this; Trick is the ultimate fail safe option. When you're stuck in 50/50 situations where you're not sure if your opponent will switch into Heracross check A (Golurk) or Zoroark counter B(Hitmontop), you can use Trick to come out on top, every time. Trick compounds with Illusion and turns Zoroark into the ultimate trickster Pokemon. The cool part about Trick Zoroark is that after if it's given up Choice Specs, it can still function as great Special Attacker. It gets awesome coverage between Dark Pulse, Focus Blast & Flamethrower. It's only downsides are its AWFUL defenses and the potential to invite Cobalion for free (ugh). Regardless, even though it has shitty defenses, it's arguably the most integral Pokemon in the "make Heracross sweep" plan.

    [​IMG]

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf *** The Grand Finale
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Heracross has the potential to wipe out everything in UU. Ordinarily, it was just a solid Choice Scarf user with some incredible lategame sweeping ability, but when it got Moxie, things changed. It gained the ability to wreck teams that relied on "1 time" physical walls like Blastoise since at +1 it hits extremely hard AND is a scarfer to boot. This basically means that you can't fodder a Pokemon against Moxie Heracross... ever. But given that many players are cowardly and generally anti-Heracross, it would be a difficult procure a sweep under normal circumstances. Fortunately, every Pokemon up until now has been dedicated to giving Heracross a clean sweep. That is, imo the true secret to this team. As long as Zoroark successfully kills, damages, or even cripples a counter, Heracross has a very legitimate chance of sweeping. It didn't matter if I was losing by a large margin, as long I had a Healthy Heracross and I took out (or even weakened) the opposing Heracross checks, I could win. Once the stage has been set, it's an extremely simple Pokemon to use. Send it out when hazards are up, and counters are down and click "Close Combat or Megahorn" (or maybe even a coverage move) and watch it sweep.

    Heracross isn't just limited to just sweeping though, since there are times where I will bring it out early in the match to check faster offensive threats. It's a top notch revenge killer, and between those 4 moves, he can revenge kill everything in UU. I don't use Pursuit because Pursuit is utter shit, and Earthquake nails Qwilfish, Nidoking and Chandelure (100% of the time). It's also a little more useful against things like Raikou (if you don't want to put yourself into a position where you you have -1 def as well). In the deep, dark recesses of my mind I sometimes I consider running adamant for more POWER, but losing the ability to tie opposing Heracross, beat Adamant Darmanitan and some other things is just not worth the power boost.

    Team (open)


    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail

    Qwilfish @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Haze
    - Pain Split
    - Spikes

    Shaymin @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Seed Flare
    - Psychic
    - Synthesis
    - Earth Power

    Snorlax @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake

    Zoroark @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Trick
    - Focus Blast

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Threat List​



    (Important) Individual Threats

    [​IMG] Umm... I don't even know where to begin with this thing. CB Cobalion? Swords Dance Cobalion? Both are very dangerous but beatable threats. Taunt SD Cobalion? It's a dick, but not completely annoying. SubSD Cobalion? It DESTROYS this team. It has 2 very easy Pokemon it can come in on (choiced locked Snorlax & Zoroark), it sets up a sub, SDs and checkmates my team. Qwilfish struggles to keep it in check with Haze, but it can just keep spamming SD or Sub and come out on top in the end. From there I have to pray that the sub isn't up and Hera is alive or it sweeps my team CLEAN. I've thought about, but aside from giving Qwilfish enough attack evs to take down its subs,or running Gligar over Rhyperior... aside from thati've got nothing. And i'm honestly fine with that. My anti-SD Cobalion countermeasures are:
    • I forbide myself from using Return / Pursuit on Snorlax
    • Rarely use Dark Pulse with Zoroark
    • General try to make its life as miserable as possible by having things like Rhyperior stay in on it to EQ
    It's impossible to counter EVERYTHING and all teams will inevitably be weak to something. SubSD Cobalion is my Waterloo :) (It's a good thing they're not that common!)

    [​IMG] Man you have no idea how much it sucks facing a Kingdra users. Once it gets in and I don't know the set, it will usually kill at least Pokemon on this team guaranteed. First I need to find out its set, then I need to found out if my team can handle said threat. DD variants are checked by Qwilfish +revenge killed (if they're weakened) by Heracross. In actuality, DD Kingdra actually has trouble setting up on this team so it's not all bad (simply by virtue of having several faster Pokemon), and i'm going to EQ its ass if it tries to set up on Rhyperior. Specs sets are a whole other animal. On the plus side, they can never increase speed, making them checkable by Shaymin, Zoroark & Heracross. On the negative side, nothing in UU likes taking a Draco Meteor, not even Snorlax (especially when hazards are up). I'll actually pursuit Kingdra with Snorlax after a DM to get some damage on it, since every bit of damage counts.

    [​IMG] Flygon's are always annoying if you don't want something like Bronzong. Thankfully, 99% of Flygon users are fucking cowards that use Scarf and spam U-turn, but there are a few brave battlers who run Choice Band and actually use Earthquake / Fire Punch and... gasp, Outrage early / midgame!!! I don't have any Flygon "counters" but I have a few Pokemon that can sponge its attacks. Heracross & Shaymin are on EQ duty, and Rhyperior can handle everything else. If it's Choice Band, I can actually outspeed it with 2 Pokemon and force a speed tie with Shaymin. I mean don't get me wrong, 90% they're spamming U-turn so I don't really have to turn my brain on, but when they're actually using attacking moves... bah. Oh and that bastard is immune spikes and resist SR, making them impossible to wear down.

    [​IMG] If you make a RMT and don't put Raikou as a threat then you are a consummate liar (or you haven't faced many of them :P). You'll notice that I have not one, but 2 strong Raikou checks, and it's STILL a threat. Choiced sets are checked by Snorlax & Rhyperior CM sets are also dealt with the above Pokemon, but ones that carry LO are more dangerous. +1 LO Thunderbolt does a TON to Snorlax, and if it's been weakened, it can actually beat it. It also outspeeds my entire team barring Hera, so if it goes down it will have a leg up on this team. IMO, Raikou is the single best offensive threat in UU.

    [​IMG] A wise man once said "FUK Birds." I don't remember who it was, but he had a damn good reason for saying that. One way or another, birds have (and always will) terrorized UU. Togekiss isn't "that bad" but it always puts my team in all sorts of uncomfortable situations. It's Nasty Plot / Para sets can actually beat Snorlax 1 v 1, and it carries Aura Sphere for Rhyperior. It's not impossible to beat, and its slow speed is usually its downfall, but its very annoying nonetheless.

    [​IMG]When the team is healthy, Sharpedo doesn't pose much of a threat since it can't OHKO anything (barring Rhyperior) and everything can ohko it in return. That's a stupid statement though because it will ONLY come out lategame when everything has been weakened. I basically have to pray that Qwilfish is alive so that I can intimidate it, or it sweeps me clean. It's not really a Pokemon you can feasibly "counter" given the nature of its ability, but its how you play the match that determines if it's a threat or not. Sharpedo is an undercover OU Pokemon.

    Team Styles

    Sand teams
    lol

    Rain Teams
    Rain teams are universal constant in UU. They will always, always, ALWAYS be a threat. They're incredibly rare though, so I don't think there's a point to dismantling my team in order to check them. Actually, in comparison to the average team, my team isn't half bad against rain. Qwilfish, Shaymin and Snorlax carry some utility against standard Rain sweepers, and I think Heracross actually outspeeds some of the slower swift swimmers. It's all about how you play though, surviving those first 8 turns is key.

    Stall Teams
    Bah. They get a special mention because they're annoying to deal with for this team. The problem lies with Gligar. It walls 4/6s of this team, so if Zoroark & Shaymin go down I lose the game. It's no biggie if Gligar is on a random balanced team, but stall teams are synchronized and a good stall team will never let their Gligar's die. Fortunately, Zoroark has utility against stall teams via trick, which messes up their tempo pretty badly.

    Hyper Offensive teams
    They're similar to rain teams in that you can't set up your team to "counter them" but imo they're even more difficult to deal with than rain teams. Nothing is stopping Azelf from setting up dual screens, it's impossible to even try :/. After Dual Screens are up, a whole bunch of threats becoming exceedingly difficult to counter (Venomoth! Liligant! Kingdra! etc). It's really all about how I play the game and stalling those 5-8 turns. Liligant is the worst offender though. I fear for the day when people actually start using its overpowered ass.
  3. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    Hi PK Gaming, really awesome team you have for sure. This is one of the few teams that looks like a really effective use of Zoroark which is cool. I mostly just have small scale suggestions

    On Rhyperior you could think about using Ice Punch instead of Dragon Tail to screw with Gligar a little bit more while still checking Flygon effectively. You lose the phazing utility, but the team looks to force a lot of switches anyway so I don't think you'll miss it. By having another Pokemon able to mess with Gligar you make its job of holding off Heracross more difficult.

    On Snorlax I think you'd get some mileage out of using Leftovers instead of Choice Band. Not only does it protect you better against teams that try to spam special attackers, the ability to switch moves limit set-up opportunities for troublesome opponents, leaving the only true free set up place to be Zoroark locked on the wrong move. Body Slam's potential paralysis could also slow troublesome switch ins like Cobalion down so that your team can easily handle it. Plus, maybe you paralyze Gligar, making it tougher to wall your team if it misses a Roost due to an untimely parahax

    I have no idea how you beat Overheat / Thunderbolt / Will-o-Wisp / Pain Split Rotom-H, but thats rare and going to a Rest Snorlax with Aromatherapy support from Shaymin would slow the team down too much, so I'll leave it alone.

    Hope I helped some, awesome team!
  4. Psychotic

    Psychotic But in the middle we stay calm, we just drop bombs
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    576
    PK, awesome team! I love seeing Zoroark used to its fullest potential, and you did exactly that with this team.
    ;D
  5. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,037
    glad to see this team is getting some credit that it deserves :)))

    anyway i ended up switching to roar on rhyperior because i never really used dragon tail, and to quite frank, misses really fucking sucked with dragon tail against otr cofagrigus, which seems to be gaining popularity

    shaymin basically holds this team together, and as we discussed, once it goes down you have a really hard time against so many threats. i kept rest as opposed to synthesis because i found that often times when i needed to rest (mainly mid game), my opponent was already scrambling around to try to wear me down with life orb recoil, and by resting i was just outpredicting them and making them prepare for another onslaught or lose

    but yeah back on the subject of otr cofag, i replaced fire punch on lax with crunch so i had something to hit it harder. cofag wont be doing a whole lot early game, but if it gets in late game when shaymin/lax are weakened you may have some trouble. i never really missed fire punch against zong, mainly because it was qwil fodder and just didnt do a whole lot in general

    yeah i love this team <3_<3 good rmt good presentation 5/5 and a luvdisc :toast:
  6. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    UU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,434
    Yeah this team is really cool (obviously, since I made like half of it :o).

    Rhyperior and Snorlax are an amazing duo who manage to check a ton of stuff while keeping a huge amount of offensive presence. Qwilfish keeps the Fighting-types in check while laying down Spikes for Heracross to sweep later with the aid of Zoroark's Illusion. Shaymin covers up many holes this team has--namely it's lack of Scald-takers--and just generally shits on stuff.

    Overall it's just a very well constructed team which I really enjoyed building with you and will probably continue to use from time to time.

    [pimg]370[/pimg]
  7. Santuga

    Santuga

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    385
    I also tested out this team on the PS ladder and my god. Very good job on the team, congratulations. It is the kind of team I personally like to use, and finally I can see someone making good use of Shaymin. Along the way I fought a SubSD Cobalion and it is less problematic if you have Rhyperior at full HP since unboosted Close Combat is not a 2HKO. If you play around with Qwilfish to the point where Cobalion's HP is at around 50-ish percent, switch to Rhyperior on the turn they use Substitute , take two Close Combats and take it out. It is a pretty big threat nonetheless, as it basically needs two Pokemon at almost full potential just to take it out. The ZoroCross combo is amazing, the number of KOs you can get on turn one just by bluffing you have Heracross out on the field is outstanding. As for comment above, TR Cofagrigus can only make use of its low speed for 4 turns. You can always have a safe switch into Zoroark when it comes out on the field, and then decide from there. If they use Nasty Plot, just Dark Pulse. If they use TR, 4 turns is not that huge when you have Snorlax + Qwilfish to resist Cofagrigus's moves.

    Anyway, Luvdisk'd
  8. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,431
    Yeah, this team is really good and I'm glad to see Zoroark being used properly. There aren't many things to suggest because this team seems to have reached it's full potential, but something you could try to handle Cobalion a bit better is using attack evs on Qwilfish to break his subs and Thunder Wave, and to be fair the lose on Def EVs doesn't look that bad due to Pain Split being able to heal it.

    I don't know if you have considered it but it could be a good idea trying a Physically Defensive EV spread (or a Mixed one) on Rhyperior as well as Ice Punch over Dragon Tail. While it's true that you are losing coverage against Electrics (you can still check Raikou and Zapdos decently though) to handle Flygon and Cobalion (with Defense evs Rhyperior takes Close Combat like a boss) and Ice Punch also lets you hit Gligar (you aren't beating it but at least it doesn't leave you helpless). I also absolutely agree with Crunch on Snorlax since it's more useful than Fire Punch overall.

    Cool team, Luvdisc!
  9. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    @Friar: Ice Punch is actually a pretty good move option (I had forgot that Rhyperior learned Ice Punch) and it's something I plan on experimenting w/ in the near future. I plan on giving the lefties set a test run, but I didn't really like it when I tested it on other teams. It doesn't have CBs sheer power (ohko on Mienshao / Flygon is solid), but I could see that flexibility coming in handy.

    @PsYch071c: Thanks bro ;)

    @august: Yeah good call on Crunch, since getting any kind of damage on cofag is pretty important. Thanks for giving the team a shot dude.

    @kokoloko: Hell yeah. I wouldn't have made it this far without your help.

    @Santuga: Glad you liked the team man, I appreciate it.

    @DestinyUnknown: Qwilfish needs an Adamant nature and a decent attack EVs in order to break Cobalion subs. If SubSD coba were more common, I wouldn't hesistate to change my Qwilfish spread, but it isn't and I kind of need that bulk. Thanks a ton for the awesome rates/luvdiscs. A different spread on perior keeps me up at night. It's true that I lose to electrics miserably now,you're right in saying that I can check some annoying physical attackers now. I'm going to give it a test run. Thanks for the rate.
  10. Avatar Korra

    Avatar Korra

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    213
    You won't believe how many times I've seen people use this team, all improperly -_-
    Seriously, nobody knows how to use Zoroark!

    Anyways this is a very cool team obviously, Zoroark is one of my favs and it pleases me that somebody used it to its full potential.

    I just have a couple of small suggestions to make for your team:

    I would say use Roar over Dragon Tail, just so you don't miss and can go through substitutes, but then I noticed you have Rock Blast just for that reason! So, I recommend you switch Dragon Tail to Ice Punch. Ice Punch destroys Gligar, allowing you to have an easier time with a Heracross sweep, as well as killing arrogant Flygons who stay in, eliminating a problem Pokemon for you.

    My next recommendation would be to switch Pain Split for Thunder Wave or Poison Jab. Poison Jab allows you to have a reliable STAB that surprisingly hits a lot of UU hard. It also wrecks those annoying grass types that switch in. If it's not your thing, Thunderwave can be used to ruin sweepers/pokes that try to set up on Quilfish. If you insist on keeping Pain Split, swap Haze for Thunderwave.

    My last recommendation is switch Synthesis for Rest on Shaymin. With Natural Cure, Rest is extremely helpful to always be ready to destroy. Shaymin is very important in this team, and taking hits/life orb wear it down heavily. By the time you use Rest, late game, you should be able to outpredict your opponent and know when you use it!

    Well that's all I have to say! Great team :)

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