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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. fluffyflyingpig


    Jan 9, 2009

    Meinshao/anything HJK, Specs Pory Hyperbeam, Headsmash Ramp/Archeops. There may have been a couple additions/subtraction and 'really bad' may be overstating it, but I seem to remember these being ugly matchups in particular.

    I seem to lose a lot more in 1-49 than 49+ too Peterko. I blame lack of familiarity with the movesets. =( I share you pain on dozing off and missing trainer types. It would be really nice if they included the trainer name along with the remaining pokemon status display on the bottom screen when you are selecting attacks
  2. DrDimentio


    Aug 29, 2009
    I lost a 70+ streak with my latest experimental team, which seemed unstoppable until this lead made me aware of a major problem:

    332 | Yanmega | Rash | Cheri Berry | Air Slash | Bug Buzz | Detect | U-turn | SpA/SpD

    Switch-out moves. Since this team was based around setting up against a crippled Pokemon, switching out obviously wastes all the stat drops... and in my case the incoming Pokemon was easily able to defeat me before I could attempt to set up. The Yanmega actually used Bug Buzz a few times on my Psychic-type Trick user, but I selected Flash as I thought Trick might be useless if it got Tricked on the way out with U-turn. Is there any reliable way to deal with this situation?
  3. Skore


    Apr 24, 2011
    I've become intrigued with Trick Room double teams and have been experimenting with one thats gotten me to 47 but with tweaking I'm sure can take me further.

    Slowbro@ Leftovers
    Quiet - Regenerator (thinking of changing this to Own Tempo)
    Slack Off
    Trick Room

    Bulky enough to always get a TR up for me. If I feel they're gonna double team me I protect to scout.

    Breloom@Toxic Orb
    Brave - Poison Heal
    Focus Punch
    Seed Bomb

    2 STABS, Sub and Spore, behind a sub and with Trick room running this thing can shut down anything leaving it free to be torn apart with a Focus Punch.

    Chandelure@Expert Belt
    Quiet - Flame Body (Toss up between this and Flash Fire, so far the hax has helped me more than FF would have)
    Fire Blast
    Shadow Ball
    Imprison (This move is never used, thinking of either Psychic or a Hidden Power, likely Ice as I lack something for Dragons/Flyers)

    Scizor@Bug Gem
    Brave - Technician
    Bug Bite
    Bullet Punch


    As mentioned, I lack some coverage with these 4 pokes, mainly something for Dragons/Flying Types, though I've had decent luck with Breloom being able to Spore them as they tend to focus my Slowbro first. The lack of Protect on Breloom is something that has made me misplay a few times if he's KO'ed before a sub goes up.
    Smuckem likes this.
  4. feral_brute


    Aug 23, 2007
    Awesome! I'm also playing around with trick room in the Doubles Subway as well! I'd recommend maybe using a Porygon2 with eviolite to provide bolt/beam coverage as well as another bulky Trick Room user. I'm currently using:

    Ability: Trace
    Nature: Bold (+def, -atk)
    -trick room
    -ice beam

    Escavalier@muscle band
    Ability: Swarm
    Nature: Adamant (but still super slow)
    -Iron head

    Reuniclus@Life orb
    Ability: Magic guard
    Nature: Quiet
    -Trick room
    -Focus Blast (hate the accuracy of this...)
    -Shadow ball

    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Sassy
    -Leech seed
    -Gyro ball

    Porygon is super bulky and always gets TR set up first turn but it definitely doesn't hit very hard neutrally although it is nice for all of the 4x ice weak dragons and Gyarados. I'm considering breeding a Quiet one and just doing max HP and Special attack to still be fairly bulky but capable of hitting just a little harder.

    I am really loving Escavalier so far with his great bulk on both sides, blazing speed in trick room, and Swarm Megahorn just demolishes things. When it hits that is... Muscle band is being used for lack of a better option at the moment.

    LO Reuniclus is fun and hits hard as well and is also a back up Trick Room user when P2 falls. It really sucks in situations that Focus Blast is needed to get the KO but I don't think HP fighting would suffice power wise even though it won't miss.

    Ferrothorn is just kind of thrown into the team because I just bred him for singles and was wanting to test him out. I know the two quad fire weaknesses are going to be the death of me so I'm replacing Ferro as soon ad I fin a suitable replacement. Maybe a Quiet Heatran or Chandelure with Flash Fire. Volcarona gives this team problems and is the closest I've come to losing so far. I'm only at 42 wins with it right now but it's been fun to play with so far. Any tips/suggestions? Thanks!
    Smuckem likes this.
  5. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    what do you guys think about volcarona and scrafty?
    i wanna try them out and can you guys see anything super wrong or something?

    volarona @ chesto beryy
    252 hp 252 defense 4 speed bold
    quiver dance
    fiery dance
    bug buzz

    scrafty @lum berry
    4 hp 252 attack 252 speed
    drain punch
    ice punch/filler
    dragon dance
  6. Zacchaeus

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2009
    Make sure you have Flame Body on Volcarona, that way you can burn them to lower their Attack which will make boosting even easier. Also you could consider Leftovers, Lum Berry, Substitute, or Morning Sun.

    Jolly Scrafty with Dragon Dance Crunch Hi Jump Kick/Drain Punch and Ice Punch is the standard set so it's good
  7. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    yup :) i used it on PO, Was 3hkoed by azumarill, and azumarill was burned after the first hit :D

    what should my third member be? i was thinking gliscor.
  8. Zacchaeus

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2009
    Well so far you have:

    4x Rock weakness 2x resist
    2x Water weakness 1x neutral
    2x Flying weakness 2x weakness
    2x Fighting weakness 2x resist

    And a lot hits your team neutral like Ground and Dragon. So it seems Skarmory and Bronzong fit your team well but they aren't the best offensive Pokés. It's ultimately your call, but Gliscor would add another 2x Water weakness with no resist for it
  9. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    how about gyarados? physical dragons with intimidate, resists fighting immune to ground... but weak to rock... ehh..

    gyarados or lucario?

    or just a a general wall like porygon2?


    EDIT 2: i got it :) bulky DDer dragonite!
  10. cita1818


    Aug 16, 2011
    Hey Smogon, been lurking for a while and decided to sign up to post a team I've had some moderate success with. Hoping to get a little insight on some things I can improve upon.

    Here's the team:

    Dragonite @Lum Berry
    252HP / 44 Atk / 212 Speed
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Fire Punch

    Standard set but works incredibly well. Multiscale + Lum Berry guarantees a DD without being crippled. He's really a monster in the subway and can usually 3-0 teams.

    Heatran @Choice Scarf
    Flash Fire
    252SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Speed
    ~Earth Power
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Hidden Power Ice

    Another fairly straightforward set. I opted for scarf over air ballon or life orb as I was running up against the likes of Lucario/Infernape/Blaziken whom I can KO with earth power but were outspeeding me to KO with their fighting move of choice.

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    252HP / 252Def / 4SpDef
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Calm Mind

    Maximum Defense build here. Usually I can get 3-4 Calm Minds in before I rest. Sometimes I will go for the scald burn right away if I feel the opponent is a threat.

    Strategy: Pretty simple strategy - I lead with Nite, if the matchup is favorable I stay in and Dance. If I'm statused or the opponent puts a significant dent in me through multiscale I will outrage right away. If I think I can Dance again I do it and roost away any moderate damage. If a bulky water leads I go straight to suicune who will boost to +6 and rest. At +6 not much can stop him. If Suicune can't get away with boosting and the next matchup is poor I go to Heatran when the matchup dictates.

    Problems I'm running into: Getting greedy with boosts with Nite. I think I've learned my lesson here so this shouldn't be an issue anymore. It's safer to just outrage after 1 DD (usually enough to KO most things). The major problem has been Walrein as he's ended both of my 50+ win streaks, both times it has been to the Walrein set running Sheer Cold, Fissure, Rest, Sleep Talk. If Nite can't take him down before he hits one of the 1HKO moves, I can't do much of anything and its just a matter of time before he gets lucky and hits a 1HKO move on the other 2. Both of my losses have happened because of this. The most logical solution to fix this is running substitute somewhere and Suicune seems like the best fit (maybe instead of rest or ice beam?). I've also wrestled with the idea of replacing Heatran altogether as he hardly sees much action but he seems to cover the other two perfectly. Is it even worth changing anything as 1HKO moves are so luck based? Granted, I've been halted before the elite trainers in the subway but I've had no problems other than this Walrein.

    I'm open to any constructive criticism and would love to hear any ideas you guys might have to improve the team.

    Thanks in advance.
  11. VaporeonIce


    Mar 11, 2010
    In general, it seems like your team would have a lot of trouble with Water-types; for the most part, Suicune can use them as set-up fodder, but Lanturn can take you out before you can set up, Walrein can use a OHKO move, and Water Absorb Lapras takes so little damage from Ice Beam that it can Thunderbolt until it crits, or Block/Perish Song you to death. Heatran's not going to be managing them particularly well, and if they survive Dragonite's assault (which some are bulky enough to do), they can mess you up with Ice Beam.

    I'm having trouble coming up with an "ideal situation" to all the threatening Water/Ice types AND threatening Fighting-types (who can use their stupid coverage to KO Dragonite in some situations, and can mess up Suicune because they use physical attacks). One decent option is Reuniclus; it can't stop Walrein from Sheer Colding you to death (unless you use Sub/Recover/Psychic/HP Fighting, which kind of lacks power), but a Calm Mind/Recover/Psychic/HP Fighting @ Life Orb set can mess up most things that can break through Suicune (too bulky for Lanturn and Lapras and can probably KO before Perish Song takes you out, murders Fighting-types, generally good against Electrics). Having a reliable answer to most Water Absorb Pokemon frees Suicune up to get rid of Ice Beam and use Substitute, allowing it to stop Walrein and other OHKO users. Of course, someone else may have a better idea that Reuniclus, that's just the first thing that came to mind.
  12. cita1818


    Aug 16, 2011
    Thanks - In general I've just been pressure stalling water types while setting up with Suicune. I did come up against a Lanturn but luckily Nite was previously set up and able to KO easily.

    I actually considered Reuniclus in Heatran's spot when I was first coming up with the team so we are on the same page there. I prefer the calm mind variant myself and I think I'll try it out. You're right that would free me up to use sub on cune instead of ice beam.
  13. feral_brute


    Aug 23, 2007
    Just chiming in to second the motion of trying out substitute on Suicune. I lost a streak of 70 something to a crit on my last Poke CM Cune and immediately replaced ice beam with substitute and haven't looked back since. You can usually pressure stall the few water absorbers while still setting up and scald's burn chance is very helpful in adding passive damage to water resistant Pokes. Suicune seems to be on a lot of my Subway teams because he is so great at patching holes and also does well in the last slot as a fall back for most things. My team that I got to 86 wins with in singles was Sash,destiny bond Gengar, Lum Multi-scale Dragonite, and CM Cune. The lack of an electric resist was troublesome and Weavile just flat out murders 2/3 of the team especially with a sash.. I've experimented with DD Haxorus over 'Nite for more immediate power and the ability to outspeed base 130's after just one Dance but ultimately his frailty just couldn't cut it. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

    (I'll do a proper post about my ~80ish streak with a picture, team members and spreads when I get off of work later. I know it's nothing astounding yet but it's always fun to try :)
  14. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    What do you guys think of this team? (doubles btw)

    Whimsicott @ Focus Sash(note: arbitary because I really dunno what to give it)
    4 HP/252 SPD(might have some in defense)/252 SPE
    Beat Up
    Leech Seed

    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    4 HP/252 ATK/252 SPE
    Rock Polish
    Swords Dance
    Close Combat
    Rock Slide

    Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
    252 HP/252 ATK/4 DEF
    Close Combat
    Helping Hand
    Rock Slide
    Sucker Punch

    Stoutland @ Silk Scarf
    4 HP/252 ATK/252 SPE
    Helping Hand
    Ice Fang
    Wild Charge

    The concept is simple: use Whimsicott to Beat Up Terrakion to gain +4 ATK, Terrakion then RP/SD's then smash through the opposition with Rock Slide.(yeah, everyone knows that though >.>) However, there's a problem, and that is that when I boost sometimes the enemies just double-team Terrakion and kill him off immediately, then I struggle with the other 3. Is there any way to improve my team? Thanks.
    Smuckem likes this.
  15. FearZeCrawdaunt


    Jul 16, 2010
    Rage Powder > Beat Up. Give Terrakion the time he needs to set up, and probably absorb moves that won't do much damage to your RP'er anyways. However, if you were to do this, you'd probably need to shuffle the back to properly support the leads. I'd say Amoonguss works as your Rage Powederer. After that, you could even bring in another Rage Powderer xD I dunno... multi-hit moves block the strategy hard (surf anyone?) but it's AN option. Perhaps you could run water absorb or something in back, or something like Bold Suicune that could switch in on surfs and/or Earthquakes (perhaps with some intimidate help also switching in), then proceed to set up and sweep.

    Just ideas. Obviously untested.
  16. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Hitmontop and Stoutland are more of filler actually, since 90% of the time they just spam Helping Hand. I might try a Follow Me Togekiss, but idk. :(
  17. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    It's a pretty good team, though I think the main weakness of the team is that it is too centred around Terrakion. It kinda lacks a backup plan. You've probably already realised that it won't always be possible to set up and sweep, and you need to be prepared for that. Having 2 helping handers is a bit overkill really and you'll probably want a backup sweeper.

    I think you need your team members to cover Terrakion's weaknesses so that you can switch something in safely and remove the threat. I don't think Stoutland is particularly helpful because it shares the fighting weakness without covering any of Terrakion's other weaknesses. It's not particularly strong either. I think a good replacement would be Latios/Latias is you have access to one of those. Terrakion and Latios/Latias have great type synergy, and the Lati twins are really powerful themselves.

    Those are just some thoughts I had. I hope they was helpful in some way. Good luck!
  18. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Thanks! I don't have access to the Lati's(I only have 1 DS and a SS cart and a White one >.>), but is there an alternative to them? I'm probably digging Reuniclus or Espeon...
  19. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    That's too bad as the Latis would have been perfect. How about Bronzong? It resists ground (if it has levitate, which it should), psychic, grass and steel. Plus, Terrakion covers Bronzong's fire weakness.

    I'm sure you'll come up with something.

    EDIT: Actually, Air Balloon Metagross might be better as it's stronger overall. Not sure how I overlooked that for Bronzong....
  20. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Dec 19, 2004
    internship final presentation finally out of the way so i can post now:


    team (which is currently 301-0) may surprise you but probably won't after you "get it", it sure didn't take me long after i first used it:

    [​IMG] @ Focus Sash ** ♣
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 4HP/254Def/252SpD
    Nature: Careful
    ~ Taunt
    ~ Charm
    ~ Worry Seed
    ~ Memento

    No surprise here, Whimsicott is broken and I don't think I ever considered replacing it on my "cripple-things-for-one-teammate-to-sweep strategy" team.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers ** Saffron
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 204HP/254Atk/20Def/28SpD/4Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    ~ Dragon Claw
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Roost

    The first time I saw Multiscale put to the test, my jaw literally dropped. Battle 71, lead Tornadus, Memento, lock into Dark Pulse, paralyze, Flash till Mesprit dies...then Dragon Dance. Dark Pulse hits...and takes me to 176/197. Then Lefties, for net damage of 4%. (4.56 but we floor everything in pokemon right?) Dragonite...I don't think there's many who have played RBY who don't have a soft spot in their heart for this Pokémon, at least from a "fuck yes finally at a hard-earned Lv55 my Dragonair evolved into a huge total badass flying dragon" perspective. I have always wished it were better, and somewhat got that wish in DP when it got Outrage, and Extremespeed to give it a niche over Garchomp, but Multiscale is the icing on the cake. And Dragonite can be the cake, because at 100% HP, not even Ice attacks do a damn thing to it. As was intended all along...I just kind of "agree" with Multiscale on Dragonite, it was really *supposed to* always be that much of a beast. Plus it's orange, which made me want to love it all the more...its color explains its nick, though EeveeTrainer suggested "Dragula" and I've since renamed it because lol at how fitting a name that is for Drapula's replacement. Dragula is actually a closer linguistic play on Dracula than is Drapula, and what better to name Dragula than *the* Dragon Pokémon?

    Speaking of Drapion, the best part is that there's just like there's no CHing through Drapion's Battle Armor, there's no CHing through Dragonite's Multiscale. I already lamented at how long battles with Drapion took, and after one more bullshit loss I finally went ahead and decided to give Dragonite another shot. I'd used it with Lum on an earlier team that I can no longer remember and only remember (for sure, you always remember losses etc) it dying to a CH stone edge from Gliscor when sand was up, and its longevity impressed me. Drapion will always have its boss status in my heart, but as mentioned it has trouble killing things and is just "too" slow. Dragonite sure isn't though, and the set speaks for itself even if the EVs don't. If Garchomp isn't fast enough anymore and Drapion isn't powerful enough anymore, a DDer with bulk is a good place to start!

    204HP for 192HP at Lv50, a very, very crucial Leftovers number (I shouldn't say "very, very"...I only re-EVed it after battle 301 lol). There are only two multiples of 16 that Dragonite's HP can be at Lv50, and 192 takes hits the best of it and 176. 192 is important so I only have to wait three turns to reactivate Multiscale after Subbing, which factors occasionally but obviously isn't a streak-breaker if 231 battles is enough of a sample size. Roost is what really sells Multiscale, along with ensuring a faster Roost: Ice and Rock attacks lose two whole levels of effectiveness when Roosting, which, when coupled with Memento and/or Roost, make them almost a non-factor, especially behind a Sub.

    Just watch this if you can: 90-96665-10776

    If you'd rather not, here's the tl;dw:

    igarvey: lol
    dragonite survives stab ch blizzards now
    gj gamefreak

    Anyway, I'm so glad Dragonite can "get away" with max attack and Adamant...maybe Drapion could have too, but it would have made for some even longer battles probably, especially given it doesn't have Roost. Only stuff I care about is Brightpowder, a Lapras got me once but that was mainly lame cause I wasn't looking and I Subbed the next turn instead of attacking again: if i had been BPed again IB wouldn't have killed (unless it CHed, which, you know, is exactly what happened in the battle above, so lol).

    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf ** We Jammin'
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252HP/4Def/252Spe
    Nature: Bold
    ~ Trick
    ~ Thunderwave
    ~ Charm
    ~ Flash

    No surprises here either, same strategy I posted about with Whimsicott/Drapion/Latias. But with a Dragon setup poke (and the AI's insistence upon using XS with that scarf Pinsir instead of the actually threatening Guillotine [though it'd have to go 4-for-4]), Mesprit is the better choice for the same reason it was in DPPT. Tricking things into Surf and Flamethrower and Waterfall is awesome. The only thing this cares about is Jolteon, which of course CHed with Thunder through Memento once because I'm not Timid, but whatever.

    I'll probably post some more videos later but yeah, thanks for being awesome Dragonite...
    Smuckem likes this.
  21. Conn


    Aug 25, 2011
    Pokemon Black Super Single - Streak 96

    Battle Subway Singles
    Streak: 96
    Team: Gengar, Garchomp, Suicune

    Machamp @ Lum Berry
    Timid 102/252/0/0/0/156
    No Guard
    - Dynamic Punch
    - Bullet Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch

    Scizor @ Custap Berry
    Adamant 252/40/0/0/218/0
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost

    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    Adamant 244/252/4/0/4/6
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Extremespeed

    Machamp's a beast. I only switch him out on Espeon and Skarmory. Otherwise he's big beastin' till he's is knocked out. Then I throw Dragonite in there and Outrage. Usually the match is over by the end of his Outrage. If it's not I switch in Scizor, and if Scizor dies it's back to Dragonite's Outrage.

    If I do switch out it's usually to Scizor to set up.

    Once I got passed about 30 streaks it honestly became easier. I was finally beaten out by a lead Espeon who's Psychic took out Machamp (I know I should have switched but I honestly wasn't paying that much attention). In comes Scizor; Swords Dance, Bug Bite, Espeon faints. Drapion comes out, so I figure I'll set up some more. I use Swords Dance and get Fire Fanged for ~50%hp. Switch to Dragonite; Outrage. Drapion faints. In comes Hippowdown. Outrage continues. I don't know what move Hippowdown used cause I wasn't looking. I thought I had this battle in the bag, but Dragonite faints. Hippowdown has about 20hp. Scizor comes in and I Bullet Punch. He's got pry 1hp. Uses Slack Off. Restores 50%. I Swords Dance, Slack off, Swords Dance, Earthquake with a crit ftw. I lose. :(

  22. Zacchaeus

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2009
    Damn Jumpman, nice.

    I never would've guessed Dragonite but I've also found that Dragonite is one of the best sweepers in Battle Subway. However, while your team obviously did work wonders, is it really necessary for 2 cripple Pokés when Dragonite has such intense ability to keep itself alive? But I guess the 2 Pokés permit Dragonite to run such heavy Attack investment. The only other thing that seems weird to me about your team is Choice Scarf on the old discussion we've had about "Does the AI tend to switch out more when they have a Choice item?" which I definitely had problems with (which is where I had more success using Ring Target Thunder Wave)

    Definite congratulations though
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    The thing is, Whimsicott has taunt to make sure that Mesprit can lock opponent into attacking move, and Mesprit levitating also means it won't be locked into a move Dragonite is immune to. When opponent is locked into an attacking move that deals damage, it will not switch.

    Awesome job on the team, Jumpman! I was going to try out Multiscale too, but no time to play these days. I was a bit surprised by Leftovers with only Dragon Claw more than anything else though. Have Static and Flame Body been problematic at all?
  24. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    i am gunna try out a sun team soon.

    ninetales (defensive spread)


    scout for weather changers and focus sashers, and spread sleep to allow blaziken and venusaur to set up.

    blaziken @wide lens
    adamant 252 attack 252 speed

    swords dance
    blaze kick
    hi jump kick
    stone edge

    standard @black sludge
    energy ball
    hp fire
    sludge bomb

    what do you guys think?
  25. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Custap Berry's unreleased, and uh, Timid Machamp? You do mean Jolly right?

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