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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Cradily


    May 15, 2010
    You could check the Speed tier and figure out if what you are out speeding is even worth it. Once you try it out, you may discover that you are lacking power but the only way to know is test.

    I'd go with Jolly as a first try.
  2. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    jolly+life orb is really good. havent missed yet.
  3. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    @ Bluemon look on the record list and read how they loose. if its not a misplay most the time its due to a miss via snow clock or bright powder etc. your taking that risk every match. it will hit alot more times than it'l miss but when it does miss you could be throwing the match and your streak away.

    anywhooo while i was looking into making a arcanine team a poke caught my eye. and to me anyway it stands out alot so was wondering if anyone else had thought about trying this out -

    altaria @ leftovers/lum berry
    cloud nine
    cotton guard (rasies defence by 3)
    Dragon dance
    dragon claw/outrage

    just to me it stands out, has ability to ignore sand vail etc, can max its defence in 2 moves, and able to boost its speed and attack, i no the attack stat kinda low but it has decent resists and not to bad defences at 75 hp - 90 D - 105 SPD. Including a charmer lead i think this forgotten dragon could be a little demon? any thoughts? was thinking about leading with a switherooless whims and having altaria and suicune in the back?
  4. Cradily


    May 15, 2010
    Agreed, I think there's like 2 loses in which there were 4 misses in a row from rock slide/heatwave and I think one even had wide lens on it too.

    Ashez, It looks cool but a stab aerial ace does the same thing. Along with Faint attack and other never missing moves.
  5. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010

    how about i switch mienshao with blaziken?

    with a moveset of

    swords dance
    blaze kick
    hi jump kick

    @wide lens, none of its attacks is likelyto miss, and im only walled by chandelure completely, which rotom-w can take care of. what is your guys' opinion?
  6. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    to me the main selling point of altaria was its uniqueness and decentish bulk, the ignoring of sand veil is just a bonus lol i just a nagging feeling it could be decent n wants few peoples ideas lol

    i dnt want to sound hypercritical here but bluemon the best thing you can do is try it out yourself and see what works. is speed boost chicken even legal yet?? Lol i get meself confused with all these new abilities haa.
  7. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    lol yes it is legal. actually, its UBER.

    im just asking for previous experiences but i will try it out.
  8. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    Lol fair enough i have nothing to do with pokemon apart from the subway ha so sometimes dnt no things, good luck and report back your findings :)
  9. Cradily


    May 15, 2010
    yes the bulk could be useful. I wouldn't mind trying something like that but I feel aereal ace is a much more reliable counter to accuracy reducing moves. That should be a standard counter to those brightpowder abusers not an untested altaria. But dont let me deter you from trying.
  10. twash

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 26, 2007
    Just after I post the team I go and lose, blegh. Lost to a legendary team (Thundurus1, Landorus1, Suicune3). Bronzong couldn't take on Suicune 1v1, tried to PP stall but didn't quite manage it. Oh well.

    Proof of the streak (175 wins):

    Jibaku EDIT: !ha!haa.ha!HAA

    twash EDIT: do you like my 3DS Jiba?! !ha!haa.ha!HAA <3
  11. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    i was at 70..... then my ds turned off. fuck.

    i used latios instead of mienshao. has been working well.
  12. Taylor

    Taylor i am alien
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 11, 2006
    super multi train records anyone?

    interested to see how everyone else deals with this line. tough to achieve a decent streak and ive found no matter who i bring, i find myself eliminated before ive even settled in.

    im running sash blaziken and lum ddnite and yet to win the super multi trophy. with those two im forever rechallenging with different sets to try and make it work. top streak for me is 34 battles.

    lack of doubles knowledge and an unreliable partner doesnt help matters at all.
  13. UpsideDownHitmontop


    Mar 4, 2011
    Multi with trainer is ridiculous. You're not going to get far unless you get extremely lucky. I suppose you could RNG your partner's Pokemon to prevent her from choosing stupid Pokemon but then you still have to deal with her stupid move choices so it's tough either way. :|
  14. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    Great team, but that´s what always happens (the same did to me last year in doubles when I did the write-up in the evening only to lose the next morning)

    As for me, I´m currently in a state of shock, almost shaking...I can´t believe that AGAIN, I lost in the first set of seven the next day of playing, this time on the very first battle played today.

    This would have been less of a shock had I not won 147 battles yesterday in three sessions of 49 battles (about 7 hours with all the moveset checking that is needed with this team) with a record of 252. Note that everytime I continued the streak, the AI began with a legendary team.

    I did maybe 200 battles on thursday, losing 4 times before 30 with teams I thought were working rather well (like tornadus+wak, etc.), then I tried another team I´ve used some time ago that I lost at #14 with back then, now lost at #20 with it again, after which I decided to change the moveset and EV spread of one lead and the team was 252-0 (thursday 105 wins, 147 wins yesterday) until the first battle today.

    I lost #253 to a Nursery Aide´s espeon GLACEON lead (well, actually only lost 1-0 due to an almost impossible comebacks on my side) and I just can´t believe the reason for losing was choosing the wrong opening move, but more importantly, why the .... didn´t psychic gem espeon target the fighter, but my other, sashed lead???

    Probably because it does 106-126% dmg to my sashed lead with a lower sD while doing 151-177% damage to the fighter...I guess 100% equals 100% and the AI attacks the lower special defense? I don´t get it...maybe it just knew that the fighter was Protecting.

    I´m not posting my team (some people might guess it already), because I´m currently not able to, this got under my skin.
  15. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I was sadly unable to improve upon my 83 win streak using my Darmantian team. Usually I'd get haxed out, though I did find some troublesome pokemon that were impossible to beat with my team. Since this is higher than 70, I thought I might as well post it. Unfortunately I don't have any picture or battle video proof because I didn't take a picture at the time my vs recorder displayed the record.

    So here's the team:

    Darmanitan @ choice scarf
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 4/252/12/0/4/236
    Stats: 181/211/77/45/76/145
    Sheer Force

    Flare Blitz
    Rock Slide

    This is my star. Pretty simple to understand really. Flare Blitz whatever dies and U-turn out of whatever won't. The other moves are filler, though I did use them occasionally for particular rock types.

    The EVs are simple. Max attack obviously. 236 speed ensures I hit 217 speed, hence outspeeding the fastest forms of Accelgor (this is the fastest thing that scarf Darmanitan can hope to outrun and any more speed investment is a waste). The leftover EVs are placed in its defences, though this makes no difference really.

    This thing is borderline noobish. The thing that stops it being completely noobish is that some thought and care is required in regards to what you should stay in on and what you should U-turn out of. The general starting rule that I went by is "if it is weak to fire it dies; if it resists fire it lives." From my own testing this is pretty much always true (there may be some exceptions). From there, it's about using your best judgement. Sometimes it's fairly easy. Obviously a frail opponent like Mr. Mime is going to die. However, sometimes pokemon you'd think would die can actually survive, often because of the unusual EV spreads some of these pokemon carry. For example, Volcarona 3 and Mismagius 4 barely survive Flare Blitz (not that either of these are particularly threatening, but it demonstrates that you have to be on the look-out).

    You also need to watch out for things like focus sash, sturdy, heatproof and thick fat. I lost one streak because I tried to kill Glaceon without releasing it had a focus sash. It survived and set up hail. The next turn, I miss due to snow cloak and am promptly killed by Hyper Beam. I can't remember the rest of the battle, other than the fact that I could have won if Darmanitan hadn't fainted. From then on, I always played conservatively in these situations and U-turned out (this approach has worked out so far).

    Rotom-W @ leftovers
    IVs: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    EVs: 236/0/4/248/0/20
    Stats: 155/76/128/171/127/109

    Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power [Grass]
    Volt Switch

    I chose this thing because it can single-handedly take down the 2 trainer types that Darmanitan struggles against: Fishermen and Parasol Ladies. The only water type that it can't beat is Ludicolo, though these aren't that threatening to my third team member anyway. It can also do well against Hikers and Workers (though this depends on what they use).

    This is a different Rotom than the one from my other singles streak. With HP grass, it can now kill those pesky water/grounds (especially Quagsire and Gastrodon because they can be immune to Hydro Pump due to their abilities). Volt Switch has been great because it can be used to finish off an opponent and get Darmanitan in for free. This is especially important because of the choice scarf, as it allows me to pick the move for the next thing that comes in rather than be forced to use what I was locked into before.

    The thing that stops Rotom from being perfect is Hydro Pump. Its accuracy is starting to annoy me now (probably because I'm using it a lot more in this team than in other teams). It is what cost me my best streak with this team. I wish this thing could learn Surf or Scald...

    Latios @ life orb
    IVs: 31/9/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 4/0/0/252/0/252

    Dragon Pulse
    Grass Knot

    This was designed to check dragons. Too bad it can't switch in to dragon moves! Still, it served as an excellent backup sweeper when Darmanitan dies. Its ground, grass and water resists give plenty opportunities to switch in and do damage, which is handy.


    Dragons - these were the biggest problems to deal with. Latios can kill them easily with Dragon Pulse, but it can't risk switching in to a dragon attack (especially physical ones, though Draco Meteor hurts too). What's worse is that Rotom isn't bulky enough to take them either (plus it's walled by them). Often I have to sacrifice Rotom to get Latios in safely which is just not ideal. The worst dragon is Dragon Dance Haxorus. If this thing gets a single Dragon Dance up, I'm done for. This has ended 2 attemped streaks. Of course, if Latios is out when a dragon comes in, it isn't a problem.

    Strong rock attacks - I lack a rock resist. Strong rock attacks like Choice Band Archeops' Head Smash and Rhyperior's Rock Wrecker hurt. I at least have Superpower and Rock Slide to deal with them, but locking myself into these moves is unideal. Also, there's no avoiding Rock Wrecker so I have to sacrifice something to it (though at least I can revenge kill and hope the following pokemon aren't threatening).

    Hax - it seems pointless to bring this up, but since this is a hyper offence team that doesn't employ any methods to protect itself from random crits, freezes and other stupid crap, this can be a problem.

    Since this streak was not exactly recent, I only vaguely remember how I lost. I think it went something like this:

    I send out Darmanitan and the opponent sends out Bastiodon. Since this has Sturdy, I decide to U-turn out to Rotom. I deal a small hit and Bastiodon uses Curse. I attempt to kill it with Hydro Pump, but I miss. Bastiodon Rock Slides for about 40% damage. I miss 3 more Hydro Pumps and Bastiodon Curses 2 times and kills me with Rock Slide. At this point I have to decide whether to sacrifice Darmanitan or Latios. Because Latios can handle more threats, I send in Darmanitan. I use Superpower, which deals about 30% damage. Bastiodon recovers with Sitrus Berry and kills me with Rock Slide. I send in Latios. I use Thunderbolt to bring it to about 10% health. Bastiodon misses the Rock Slide (Phew). I kill with Thunderbolt. Now I'm praying for an easy ride from here. Instead, the opponent sends in a Focus Sash Accelgor and I know that it's over. It kills me with Bug Buzz.

    I may have remembered some of that wrong, but the main parts (where Bastiodon avoids 4 Hydro Pumps to set up and destroy me, and where the opponent just happened to have one of the worst possible things for my last pokemon to face off against) are correct.

    This was a fun team to use because it was fast, though I think I'm gonna try something else now.
  16. poopoop


    Aug 3, 2011
    super single
    lost on battle # 227

    vid: 96-00890-42247
    stupid flame orb machamp!!!
    (how do i upload a pic from my 3DS?)


    [​IMG] Politoed@Quick claw
    Modest nature

    focus blast
    ice beam

    needed for the rain. basically it hits hard or KO the opponent. or dies but sometimes it survives too or i switch into ferrothorn when i see a grass attack coming. i gave it quick claw because i couldn't find any other item to give it but it has saved me so many times.also covers ferrothorns fire weakness and latios ice weakness.

    [​IMG] Ferrothorn@leftovers
    Sassy nature
    252hp/60 def/196sp.def
    Power whip
    leech seed
    protect (good vs high jump kickers and slaking obviously)

    i dont know what to say but that ferrothorn is so freaken BEAST!!! in the subway!!! he takes out almost every wall in here especially vaporeon and suicune, also can't be toxiced or seeded. also takes out many offensive pokes to that dont have stab fire moves. also he usually KOs the opponents team. And latios and politoed covers his fighting and fire weakness, while ferrothorn covers there grass and dragon weakness

    [​IMG] Latios@ Focus Sash
    Timid nature
    Ice beam
    Dragon pulse (should i replace this with psychic?)

    My sweeper.Boltbeam. stab surf (rain). i chose sash over life orb so that i can take a super effective or critical hit attack without dying. He killed so many pokemons. abuses 100% acurate thunder too.

    how i lost:

    his last poke machamp

    mine are latios and ferrothorn

    latios uses surf but it uses protect flame orb burn

    i use surf its hp goes to about 50%
    uses pay back i faint

    hurt by burn

    i send out ferrothorn

    i use protect

    hurt by burn

    i use protect again it works!

    hurt by burn

    i use protect it fails

    close combat 1HKO

    ferrothorn faints

    iron barbs hurt machamp, its hp goes to super tiny red line

    i could have won if i just switched between ferro and latios till champ died but idk why i didn't do that
  17. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Mar 24, 2011
    Testing my new Amoongus/Trick Room team till I get my Drizzletoad. Works really well I make a write-up when I break the 100 mark.
  18. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate It's Lunatic Time
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 11, 2011
    You are correct, a guaranteed KO is a guaranteed KO for the CPU, regardless of how much overkill one of them would be. I've seen a case where I had a full health Scizor and a ~10HP Kingdra, and the opponent Porygon-Z 2 would go for a Specs Adaptability Hyper Beam for an OHKO on my Scizor, so I can say that weakness/resistances don't play much of a factor in their decision.

    This would mean that the Espeon would go for either of your Pokemon with their Psy Gem Psychic in this case. Thus, they attacked at random, and guessed right, although you couldn't have known that it was Espeon 4 due to the person running all 4 movesets.
  19. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    @poopoop: Latios does not need Boltbeam. The dragons 4x weak to Ice are OHKO'd by Dragon Pulse. Gliscor is OHKOd by surf. Other flying types are hit by Thunder. Ice beam only hits grass types harder, and if you have psychic, a lot of grass types are part poison too, so yeah I would just get rid of Ice beam instead of Dragon Pulse. Psychic/Psyshock will give you better coverage. Psyshock probably better.
  20. poopoop


    Aug 3, 2011
    i'll prolly do that. i still got 226 wins :)
  21. AuraSphere


    Mar 28, 2009
    I've been going through the first 28 matches with this defensive-oriented team:

    Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
    Impish | Iron Barbs
    252 HP/212 Def/44 SpD
    Thunder Wave
    Power Whip
    Leech Seed

    Eelektross @ Leftovers
    Quiet | Levitate
    92 HP/212 SpA/206 SpD
    Zap Cannon
    Brick Break

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Bold | Natural Cure
    252 HP/252 Def/6 SpD
    Seismic Toss

    Lead with Ferrothorn, and if I see any Fire-type leads, switch to Chansey, whol will begin Minimizing until she becomes harder and harder to hit despite being in a subway car, but whatever.

    Thunder Wave if it is non Fire-type, Leech Seed, and switch to Eelektross. Power Whip is Swampert, Quagsire, or anything else that will be hit hard, and Protect just to stall a bit. When Eelektross is switched in, Substitute to avoid status, then Coil from there. Or I'll just Coil as I see fit. Zap Cannon as primary STAB. Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery racks up HP damage and recovery fast, however, this only applies to the first Pokemon the trainer sends out. Once the first Pokemon is almost down, put up a Substitute.

    When the next Pokemon comes in and breaks the Sub, Zap Cannon to score paralysis and Brick Break will now deal hard damage after a few Coil boosts, and decent damage to those that resist. He can rip through teams and is the main sweeper, believe it or not. He has a more defensive build but that doesn't mean he can't mix offense too.

    Chansey is self-explanatory.

    (I also made different paragraphs to avoid it looking like run-on.)
  22. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    what about physical fire types?
  23. Zacchaeus

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2009
    Even more questions: What about when you don't get lucky enough with Minimize?
    What if you are up against a good Fighting-type like Conkeldurr or especially No Guard Machamp?
    What if Chansey goes up against Gengar or Substitute Spiritomb or Breloom?
    What if Eelektross goes up against Golurk?
    What if Eelektross doesn't have enough time to use Coil at least 3 times?
    Why post a team for 14 wins? That's like 5 minutes of play time on a quick team and the highscore minimum is 70
  24. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    i have an answer to one of the questions.

    when golurk is against eelecktross,
    it used fling!
    it failed!

  25. popprocks


    May 16, 2011
    I'm pretty sure Darmanitan2 (life orb with flare blitz and superpower) would cause an almost guaranteed loss if it was the opponent's lead.

    Unless the calculations are different than my expectations, Darmanitan2 will be faster a ferrothorn, chansey, AND eelektross, and even worse than that, it can OHKO the Chansey and Ferrothorn lead. And a LO flare blitz should also be at least a 2HKO on Eeleketross, which means he can't switch it in on the expected flare blitz.

    Since I don't think the AI would use Swagger (which that moveset has) when it can OHKO the opponent's lead, the best play at that point is just to let his ferrothorn get killed, hope Eelektross doesn't get OHKO by LO flare blitz, and to revenge kill to force a really dangerous 2v2 situation. From there, something like a Mold Breaker Haxorus (EQ on Eelektross and hits Chansey really, really hard) could probably clean up without the opponent even needing a 3rd.

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