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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Maybe potentially Slowking (or Spiritomb?) in Trick Room, but yah, I didn't actually realize that only very few pokemon actually learn this move (I was mainly looking into Murkrow because it seems to have a lot of different options... like I even thought about using Psych Up on it for this current Beat Up Justified team, since Psyching Up to get +4 with Sucker Punch isn't bad when it has decent bulk through Eviolite and ground immunity for Terrakion's EQs, but have yet to try out, since I'm not sure its bulk is enough).
  2. bluemon

    bluemon

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    how common are spiritomb and sableye?
  3. ashez

    ashez

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    4 spirtomb and no sableye.

    so its 4 spirtombs out 998 different pokemon sets according to list on first page lol

    so not common yet if your team struggles with them it'l be more common lol

    Edit: Just printed out the spreadsheets great work guys ow you alot :)
  4. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I think the Pokemon you face isn't taken randomly out of 900+ mons. IIRC the game starts with the smaller no.s and gradually goes up to the higher numbers.
  5. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Doubles: 252

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks: 252, 95, 56, 25
    When (highest): September 16th until September 18th, 2011
    [​IMG]
    1. Whimsicott (F) „LOCA“
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31-00-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 135-64-105-129-96-184
    Moves:
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Sunny Day
    ~ Tailwind
    ~ Beat Up

    Yeah, crazy Pokémon. Whimsicott is one of the best Pokémon in the game thanks to Prankster. It has so many options but just 4 moveslots. Initially used Grass Knot with a more defensive EV spread but it didn´t work as I lost two early streaks (that I didn´t count). I don´t like the fact that Grass Knot triggers Static. Giga Drain is a surprisingy good attack on Whimsicott, it often lets you live longer and even finish battles at full health. The negative is that it misses OHKOs even on some of the 6x weak Ground/Water types. Sunny Day is superb. It priority kills enemy weather (#1), ensures you won´t get frozen (#2), makes Water attacks neutral on Terrakion (#3) and boosts Darmanitan´s Flare Blitz to spectacular levels (#4). Beat Up your partner, who likes it. This Pokémon is not easy to use, because there´s always more than one option plus the AI is often unpredictable. Para status sucks if you haven´t used Beat Up yet although you still priority set up and outspeed over 40% of the Subway under Tailwind (92 speed).
    [​IMG]
    2. Terrakion „LACOSTE“
    Item: Wide Lens
    Ability: Justified
    Nature: Jolly
    IVs: 31-31-30-02-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
    Lv.50: 167-181-110-70-111-176
    Moves:
    ~ Sacred Sword
    ~ Rock Slide
    ~ X-Scissor
    ~ Protect

    1-2-2-2. That´s the most frequent Beat Up damage. This works rather well at +4 (tripled attack) but isn´t unstoppable. Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves. Rock Slide misses very rarely (once in about 50 battles) and flinches, saving your butt a lot. X-Scissor is a necessity for Psychic types, for example to stop TR on Slowbro/King most of the time. Certain Poison types like Nidoqueen resist all your lead´s attacks but Latios should fix those. The AI´s randomness of Poison/Grass types is annoying. They either SolarBeam Terrakion or Sludge Bomb+Poison Whimsicott, effectively OHKOing both. 176 speed gets on my nerves as there´s 4 other Pokémon tieing with you, but the ones that outspeed you by 2 points or more like Froslass and Espeon are even worse. This lead duo is as effective as the person using it. One bad decision / hax / AI randomness and it falls apart like a house of cards.
    [​IMG]
    3. Darmanitan (M) „BOROTRA“
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-30-17-30-31
    EV spread: 6-252-0-0-0-252
    Lv.50: 181-211-75-38-75-147
    Moves:
    ~ Flare Blitz
    ~ Rock Slide
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Protect

    You really don´t want to face a Flare Blitz from a Sheer Force Life Orb Darmanitan under Sun and Tailwind, it´s insane. It OHKOs even the likes of Cofagrigus. Note that there´s no HP losss drawback of Life Orb when using Flare Blitz and Rock Slide ;) Recently, switched to Jolly, because of cases when I don´t set up Tailwind or when it peters out.
    [​IMG]
    4. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
    Item: Choice Specs*
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 6 –0-0-252-0-252
    Lv.50: 156-99-100-273*-130-178
    Moves:
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Grass Knot

    A staple of my teams. In the back row, at times, I miss Protect.

    Team weaknesses: Hax, AI unpredictability, Trick Room. Hail teams are dangerous for everyone, even priority Sunny Day alongside Terrakion and Darmanitan won´t always save you. There´s no way to stop TR from being set up by certain Pokémon like Dusknoir and Cofagrigus, unless you flinch them (most of the time you´re occupied with their partner, anyway). Protect helps a lot in these cases, as do timely switches.

    I´d say using the moveset and trainer list is mandatory with this team. Turn 1 & 2 decisions are even more important than with other teams.

    I was sceptical of Terracott, because I lost my first streak at #14. Then months later I tried another, losing at #20. I didn´t give up and reEVd Whimsicott to max spA/speed (actually taking another lv.1 Cotonee I bred and training it within 30 minutes), giving it Giga Drain because of static. It worked really well and once again, the highest streak I got was on my first try.

    Here are battle logs of close matches and losses:

    Streak #1

    #169 vs Psychic: Gallade, Drifblim, Gardevoir, Cofagrigus
    1. Whimsi Beat Up, Terra X-Scissor, Gallade fainted, Drifblim Hypnosis, Terra fell asleep.
    - foe Gardevoir
    2. Whimsi Tailwind, Gardevoir Psychic Whimsi, Drifblim Shadow Ball Terra, Tera fast asleep.
    3. Whimsi Sunny Day, Gardevoir Psychic, Terra fainted, Drifblim Shadow Ball, Whimsi fainted.
    - me Darm + Latios
    4. Latios Bolt, Drifblim at 20%, Darm Flare Blitz, Gardevoir fainted.
    - foe Cofagrigus
    5. Drifblim Custap Shadow Ball, Latios fainted, Darm Flare Blitz, Cofagrigus fainted, Tailwind petered out.
    6. Darm Flare Blitz, Drifblim fainted, recoil, Darm fainted.
    0-0, streak continues.

    I would´ve lost if it were an Unburden Drifblim. Thunderbolting it was a mistake in the first place.

    #186 vs Worker: Froslass, Vanilluxe, Glaceon, Walrein
    1. Whimsi Beat Up, Froslass Blizzard, Terra frozen, Vanilluxe Blizzard, Whimsi fainted, Terra at 2 HP.
    - me Darmanitan
    2. Lass Ice Shard, Terra fainted, Darm Rock Slide, Lass avoided, 80% dmg to Vanilla, Vanilla Flash Cannon Darm.
    - me Latios, 2-4
    3. Latios Psyshock, Lass fainted, Darm Slide, Vanilla fainted.
    - foe Glaceon & Walrein, 2-2
    4. Latios Psyshock, Darmanitan Slide, Glaceon fainted, Walrein Curse.
    5. Latios Psyshock, Walrein fainted.
    2-0

    #253 vs Nursery Aide Evelyn: Glaceon, Espeon, Jolteon, Vaporeon
    1. Terra Protect, Whimsi Sunny Day, Espy Psychic Gem Psychic, Whimsi Focus Sash, Glace Blizzard, Whimsi fainted.
    - me Latios
    2. Latios Dragon Pulse, 90% to Espy, Espy Psychic, Terra fainted, Glace Blizzard, Latios avoided.
    - me Darmanitan
    3. Espeon Psychic, Darm 52/181 HP, Latios Dragon Pulse, Espy fainted, Darm Flare Blitz, Glace fainted, recoil, Darm fainted.
    - foe jolteon & vaporeon
    4. Jolt Shadow Ball, Latios 68/156 HP, Latios Dragon Pulse, CH, Vaporeon fainted.
    5. Jolt Shadow Ball, Latios fainted.
    0-1

    Streak #2

    #96 vs Biker: Garchomp, Escavalier, Starmie, Metagross
    1. Tailwind, Scary Face, Iron Head, Protected
    2. Switch in Darm instead of Terra, Beat Up Darm (misclick), Scary Face Darm, Megahorn, Sash.
    3. Sunny Day, Incinerate, KO, Flare Blitz, Esca fainted.
    - me Latios, foe Starmie
    4. Latios Dragon Pulse, 98% dmg to Starmie, Starmie Psychic, Darm fainted, Chomp Scary Face Latios
    - me Terra
    5. Terra Protect, Starmie Ice Beam Latios, Chomp Fire Blast Latios, Latios D-Pulse, Starmie fainted.
    - foe Meta
    6. Chomp Fire Blast, Latios fainted, Terra Sacred Sword, Meta Meteor Mash, Terra fainted.
    0-2

    Streak #3

    #57 vs Veteran Donta: Muk, Glaceon, Tyranitar, Haxorus
    1. Whimsi Beat Up, Terra Sacred Sword, Glaceon fainted, Muk Gunk Shot, Whimsi Sash.
    - foe Tyranitar
    2. Terra Protect, Whimsi Sunny Day, Muk Shadow Sneak, Whimsi fainted, Ttar Superpower, Terra protected.
    - me Darmanitan
    3. Muk QC BB CH OHKO Terra, Darm Flare Blitz, Muk fainted, Ttar Rock Slide, Darm fainted.
    - me Latios, foe Haxorus
    4. Latios Dragon Pulse, Haxo fainted, Ttar Slide.
    5. Latios Dragon Pulse, Ttar Slide, Latios fainted.
    0-1

    Streak #4

    #26 vs Nurse set3, not4: Gastrodon, Cofagrigus, Golurk, Meganium
    1. Whimsi Giga Drain, Gastro fainted, Terra Sacred Sword, Cofagrigus immune, Trick Room.
    - foe Golurk
    2. Terra Protect, Cofag Shadow Ball, Golurk Earthquake, Terra protected, Whimsi Giga Drain.
    3. Terra out, Latios in, Cofag Destiny Bond, Golurk DynamicPunch, Whimsi confused, hurt itself.
    4. Cofag Shadow Ball, Whimsi fainted, Golurk Shadow Punch, Latios fainted.
    - me Darm & Terra
    5. Dual Protect, Trick Room ended.
    6. Double Rock Slide, Cofag fainted, Golurk at 1% HP, Golurk Earthquake, Darm fainted, Terra lives.
    - foe Meggy
    7. Terra Rock Slide, Golurk fainted, Meggy flinched.
    8. Terra X-Scissor, Meggy 10% left, Meggy Seed Bomb, Terra fainted.
    0-1
  6. Cradily

    Cradily

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    Nice I totally forgot about ignoring evasion boosts from sacred sword. Thats a great way to kill pesky brightpowder abusers. I'll have to try that at some point.
  7. UpsideDownHitmontop

    UpsideDownHitmontop

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    I don't think it ignores evasion boosts from items/snow cloak/sand veil. It only ignores evasion boosts from moves like double team.
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Exactly, that´s why I wrote "Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves." as I researched the other cases where it missed, so:

    Curse, Cotton Guard, Stockpile, Iron Defense, etc. (foe raised its defense stat) - yes
    Double Team, Minimize (foe raised its evasion) - yes

    Snow Cloak, Sand Veil (foe´s ability) - no
    BrightPowder, Lax Incense (foe´s held item) - no
    Flash, Kinesis, Smokescreen, etc. (your own lowered accuracy) - no

    but Terra holds Wide Lens, which means Powder and Lax Incense are almost nullified (100 x 0,9 x 1,1 = 99).

    Also posting to say that I think I´m the only person who doesn´t like the fact that the 2012 VGC season begins in November 2011 in North America...it means TPCI pretty much killed this records topic lol :(

    We needed more people like twash to play the Subway, but now everyone competitive is more likely to play PO and test teams for the new metagame...instead of the Subway

    This is even worse now that the dominant feelings I get from playing the Subway are nervousness, disappointment and anger, so I have to force myself to actually play these days lol...on the other hand, getting 10 doubles teams on the list and the experience I gathered during thousands of Subway double battles should help if I decide to play the next season´s VGC...I did quite a few battles on PO already and it amuses me how everyone uses politoed+ludicolo leads only to fall to my countermeasure :p

    oh, forgot to mention that earlier today, I updated the list, also added twash´s links to Subway movesets with lv.50 stats
  9. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @Peterko: Did you misplay in your #253 battle in the first turn? Like outspeeding Espy (via Tailwind) should be more important than preventing freeze (via Sunny Day)? Anyway, still awesome job! Much higher than anything I have to show for.
  10. Cradily

    Cradily

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    Bummer, whoops, wells not that useful but it still helps.
  11. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Thanks.

    You´re right, of course. It was the first battle that day (after 147 the day before) and I guess I panicked upon seeing Glaceon and maybe I had that other battle I posted (where I got frozen) still in mind. That pokémon is a nightmare (QC/Sash/Powder/Snow Cloak and Blizzard, are you serious Game Freak?), like #2 after Froslass (did I mention I hate 178 speed?). Yes, in that first moment I forgot the 178 speed on Espeon that Terra has a 50/50 chance to OHKO...

    With Tailwind up, Latios and Darmanitan would´ve cleaned up nicely.

    I remember another case of losing because of not Tailwinding when it was obvious and that was in Paris top 16 this year omg...
  12. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Thanks for updating the list Peterko, but you made a minor mistake. You basically need to move myself and kuladiamond up 2 spots on the singles list.

    Screw VGC, I'm still playing subway (not that my streaks are jawdroppingly good but still :D)
  13. bluemon

    bluemon

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    Trying to use a hyper offensive sand team.
    which poke should i use?

    tyranitar or hippowdon.
    I know what you guys are thinking, this team is TOO FIGHTING WEAK, or TOO WATER TYPE WEAK.

    its okay. i will destroy it before it destroys me.
    i have the other two pokes down, but i need to solidify my options.

    item on excadrill?
    return or x-scissor?

    also, what item on garchomp?


    excadrill @widelens/air balloon/life orb
    ability: sand rush
    trait: adamant
    52hp/252atk/20def/12sp.def/172speed
    -swords dance
    -earthquake
    -rock slide
    -return/x-scissor

    garchomp @leftovers/brightpowder
    ability: sand veil
    trait: jolly
    4hp/244atk/4def/4sp.def/252speed
    -sub
    -swords dance
    -dragon claw
    -earthquake
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I prefer X-scissor personally, though it probably depends on what moves you put on your lead (if the lead can deal with most of the stuff X-scissor hits, then there would be less need for X-scissor).

    As for items, it's usually better just to try them all out and see which one works best for you.
  15. bluemon

    bluemon

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    hmmm... im leaning towards ttar. with chople berry.
  16. ashez

    ashez

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    you may have already looked but i used a sandstorm team in singles, and my orgininal team was similar to urs but chomp and drill are way to similar i tried them a few times and just didnt click. obviously my team started out offensive and turned into a team consisting of a stat dropper/sweeper/wall and in my opinion its only way sandstorm will work in singles. the coverage isnt good enough, and shares to many weaknesses and commom ones at that, you'l be bombarded with water and fight trainers and i cant see how you'd pull wins out consistantly lol.

    but out the two leads you memtioned i'd defo go for fasthippos, hippo lol its a monster! but i personally aint to fond of ttar lol
  17. Oliver1224

    Oliver1224

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    Hello all, im new here as a member but have been a lurker for quite a while. Anyways, i've built a team that looks good (to me anyways). My current streak in the super singles atm is 55 (and still going). I finished my whimsicott this morning and started the super singles. I decided to take a break for a bit. Anyways, heres the team.

    Gengar@ Focus sash
    Hasty
    252SpA/252Spe/6HP
    Thunderbolt
    Shadowball
    Counter
    Destiny Bond



    Whimsicott@ Occa berry
    Bold
    252HP/252def/6SpDef
    Charm
    Memento
    Leech Seed
    Stun Spore



    Garchomp@ Yache berry
    Jolly
    252Atk/252Spe/6HP
    Swords Dance
    Substitute
    Earthquake
    Outrage


    The reason this team looked good to me without much thought was because, Gengar can most likely get the first 2 of the opponents pokes out of the way. If not 2, always 1. Which leaves Garchomp and Whimsi to clean up the rest. With Whimsi crippling the opponent, and yache berry and sub on Garchomp, i thought that even 2 remaining ice types wouldnt give me much trouble. im sure you guys can see where im going with this team, and the way im trying to use this setup. sorry for the crappy format, and i know i suck at explaining things. i also didnt mean to make this a RMT if thats what it looks like.
  18. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    People will have to breed for their pokemon eventually, and now subway and vgc have the exact same rules (other than no auto levelling to 50 for vgc?), so maybe people will still try out their teams in double subway I hope! :P

    EDIT:
    @Oliver1224: That is sort of an interesting idea I think. I mean, I'm not sure how far it will get, but just making use of Destiny Bond to make it a 2 vs 2 is interesting to look into. I dunno, I was just thinking just now maybe 2nd pokemon could be a trick-scarf crippler with a 3rd pokemon set up sweeper (not too unlike your current team). Even if opponent's 2nd pokemon is locked into a non damaging move and switching, it will still just be a crippler + a set up sweeper vs an unknown pokemon + a known choice-locked pokemon. Haha, I dunno. Maybe I'll try out something similar in the future.
  19. Oliver1224

    Oliver1224

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    the thought of a 2v2 or even 2v1 in the subway is what got me going to make this team. i searched everywhere to see if anyone else had made a team kinda like this one, but i couldnt find anything. im glad i decided to give it a try though, my streak is at 79 and still going at the moment. ive actually had little to no problems either. one close call with a mence/dragonite/kingdra team, but that was due to a misclick with gengar. actually pain split Spiritomb gives me trouble, i dont know what set spiritomb that is but they always use him as their lead.

    i'll post pics of my team and streak after i lose, dont know when that will be though. probably soon with my luck. you should do the team with the 2nd poke being trickscarf crippler, i think its a great idea. might try it myself after this streak.
  20. bluemon

    bluemon

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    now that sableye is released......

    theorymon time
    i just came up with this team quickly. its a doubles team, and i dont have all 4 pokes yet. here it is without ev spreads

    sableye
    -swagger
    -foul play
    -recover
    -sub

    quagsire
    (unaware)
    -stockpile
    -swagger
    -recover
    -scald

    sounds good on paper...
  21. Cradily

    Cradily

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    So Sableye is just trying to make its opponent hurt its self in confusion? or is there another role I'm missing
  22. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I think the idea is to boost the opponents attack with swagger to boost the power of foul play while using sub, stockpile, recover and unaware to minimize the amount of damage taken if they hit through the confusion.

    I don't see it working.
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Yeah, relying on confusion is just not a good idea, and then of course there are Own Tempo pokemon like Lilligant that just does not care about quagsire.
  24. bluemon

    bluemon

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    lol. im sure it wont. just an idea.
    magic guard alakazam will rip shit apart.
  25. Oliver1224

    Oliver1224

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    Well my streak finally ended at battle 94. this team went farther than i thought, considering how it is played. the thought of using counter/destiny bond Gengar to make the match a 2v2 or even 2v1 sounded great to me, so i went with it. again the team was

    Gengar@ Focus sash
    Hasty
    252SpAtk/252Spe/6HP
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow ball
    Counter
    Destiny bond


    Whimsicott@ Occa berry
    Bold
    252HP/252Def/6SpDef
    Charm
    Memento
    Leech seed
    Stun spore


    Garchomp@ Yache berry
    Jolly
    252Atk/252Spe/6HP
    Swords Dance
    Substitute
    Earthquake
    Outrage

    Here are the pics for proof of streak, and that i used this team.
    http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6193136491_4e2d7046c1_z.jpg
    http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6012/6193134277_902f6c206f_z.jpg

    I cant remember every turn from the losing battle, i've slept since then. It was against one of the Bakers sunny day teams. went something like Lilligants seed breaking sash on Gengar, while she took shadow balls like nothing, a surprise energy ball crit before the destiny bond. and it all went downhill from there.

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