1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Info Hub for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction Thread, too!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. NoCheese

    NoCheese "Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    361
    Steels can in general do a pretty good job, both resisting ice and hitting back hard with attacks that are super effective against pure ice types. However, some of the best steels (Ferrothorn) have secondary types that make them neutral instead of resistant, and many ice types have a secondary water typing that makes steel attacks neutral instead.

    Bulky waters are even better, but I highly recommend substitute to protect against hax. Sub/Calm Mind/Rest/Scald Suicune (the best poke I've ever used in the subway, by a long shot) eats ice teams (glaceon and froslass even more so) for lunch. Sub protects against Hax and 1HKOs, pressure rapidly stalls out their low pp, Calm Mind lets them set up to make subsequent pokes easy, and Scald finishes the job of killing things off. Remember that with Pressure, you can also easily stall things out, which is helpful against double teamers and the like.

    For Rest/Sleep Talkers, stall out their other moves, and set up, then don't attack until they've rested 10 times in a row (failing each time because of full health). Then you can freely attack while they try to Sleep Talk while still awake. Likewise, make sure you stall out any Froslass Destiny Bonds before you attack into them, as Sub does not stop Destiny Bond. Suicune can switch into most ice pokes with ease, but against Rest/Sleep Talk/Fissure/Sheer Cold Walrein, wait until something dies so you can bring Suicune in for free and get a Sub up before it attacks. Once you're in safely, it's a free set up for Suicune, but switching into a Fissure or Sheer Cold is bad bad bad.
  2. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    I wish I could get a Suicune, but I don't have access to older gen games. I'm actually going to try a Virizion in place. I know it won't be the same, but I'm going to try something like this:

    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Justified
    Bold
    252HP/252SpA/4Spe
    -Sub
    -CM
    -Giga Drain
    -Focus Blast

    I'm still kind of torn on Focus Blast, although it gives me a nice STAB the miss chance is just so terrible.
  3. NoCheese

    NoCheese "Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    361
    Difficulty with Virizion is that it is ice weak, so switching into those ice pokes will hurt, and as you say, Focus Blast can and will miss at the worst possible times.

    In a similar vein though, physical Cobalion may be a great fit for you. You resist ice, your Steel and Fighting STABs both hit ice types super effectively (fighting alone leaves you unable to hit Froslass super effectively), and if you go with Sacred Sword as your fighting attack, you bypass your opponent's defense and evasion stat boosts, giving you some protection against Double Team.

    Jolly Sacred Sword/Iron Head/Swords Dance/Substitute could work pretty well.
  4. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    Dangit. My Cobalion is nuetral nature. But it should still work with that set with the right EVs. Like 252HP/252Att/4Spe.

    I'm using Scyther, Rotom-W and Hydregion right now. But With Cobalion I could switch out Hydregion.
  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I used Timid Calm Mind / Sub / Flash Cannon / HP Fighting Cobalion before, and it wasn't able to set up a lot, and then I tried replacing HP Fighting with Rest, and it worked out noticeably better.

    The spread I had was basically enough speed to outspeed Jolly Garchomp (since I lose the speed to +Speed Infernape anyway due to having HP Fighting IVs), with maxed HP and the few leftover EVs into SpA. Basically it's a Steel Suicune with more speed but less defenses. ... ... And, Suicune still does a better job with the same set (with Scald or Surf over Flash Cannon obviously).
  6. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    Why would you use HP Fighting on Cob? And how did you get the IVs right for him? Or did you use Pokesav?
  7. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I RNG to get the IVs, and I used HP Fighting because that's 100% accurate compared to Focus Blast (and of course it gets STAB and gets good neutral coverage together with Flash Cannon).
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    You probably have a French version of the game, so the trainer names are different, but the trainer types should be the same. So while you play the Subway, write down the trainer names after battle 27.

    Now that you mention it, the download link of my Subway trainer list isn´t working...here´s the trainer list (note that you will meet these trainers after battle 27, some of them even earlier):

    [size=-2]Ace Trainer DFGM = set 4
    Ace Trainer Pa/Re = 18 PKMN - Clay/Mandi1, Gastro/Ferro/Sala2, Gran/Tomb/Krook/Licki/Blis3, Quag/Raptor/Weez/Tauros/Scraf/Gyara/Arca/Ice4
    Artist = all sets Normal/Steel/Ghost/Psychic
    Backpacker = set 1
    Baker = Sun (Grass/Fire) - Volca/Meg1, Rapi2, Leaf3, Doom 4, Arca13, Typhlo14, Plume/Vicy/Shift/Lilig/Eggy/Tang1234
    Battle Girl = set 4 Fire/Fighting/Steel
    Black Belt = set 4 Fire/Fighting/Steel
    Biker = all sets Star/Gyara/Drag/Blis/Tyra/Sala/Meta/Ape/Zong/Tomb/Chomp/Vile/Kiss/Yan/Arche/Esca/Haxo/Hydra1234
    Clerk (A/A/B/E) = set 3
    Clerk (Fau/Ulf) = set 4
    Cyclist = set 3
    Depot Agent = Electric/Steel - Lant3, Raichu124, Mane/Trode/Zebra/Klink/Durant/Jolt/Luca/Vire1234
    Doctor = set 4
    Fisherman Fird = set 3,4 Water
    Fisherman Humf = set 1,2 Water
    Gentleman = all sets Legends
    Harlequin = TR - Shift/King1/Ttar1, Zong 14, Wak/Quag/Musha/Reun/Seismi2, Conkel/Noir24, Forry/Harry3, Cofag/Golurk/Golem/Bro/Ramp/Giga/Lix/Eggy/Hippo/Rhy4
    Hiker Jorge = all sets Ground
    Hiker Kemuel = all sets Rock
    Janitor = Doubles - Brel/Harry/MushaMilky/Nidoq/Toed/Shuck/Eggy/Vap/Jolteon1, Aboma134, Meggy13, Trode/Glace/Kiss14, Zong 24, Arti/Lass/Cune34, Ludi/Shift/Carac//Lux/Yan/Garde/Gon/Draggy2, Zard/Typhlo/Empo/Lant/Whisc/Dew/Goth/Magius/Umby/Ent/Cress3, Empo/Jynx/Mime/Abso/Tenta/Luca/Bear/Dra,/Zap/Tres/Thund4
    Maid = all sets Starters
    Nurse = set 4
    Nursery Aide = all sets Eeveelutions
    Parasol Lady = Rain - Ludi/Float/Seismi/Kingdra/1234, Gastro13, Vap/Milo14, Lap123, Zeb2, Jolt23, Empo34, Lant/Whis/Weez/Carac/Tenta/Walr3, Dew/Bro/Star34, Mane/Trode/King/Amphy4
    Pilot = all sets Flying
    Psychic = set 4 Psychic/Ghost
    PKMN Breeder = set 4
    PKMN Ranger = set 3
    Policeman = Annoy - Venu/Mandi/Ferro14, Blis/Ludi134, Lilig234, Tomb/Dusk13, Milo24, Gastro/Crad34, Vespi/Dew/Throh/Aboma/Rose/Umby/Tang/Drag1,
    Clay2, Plume/Bro/Basti/WailVap3, Meg/Scep/Tort/Dug/Quag/Gran/Brel/Skarm/Unfe/Cofa/Weez//Taur/Scraf/Shuck/Giga/Chande4
    Roughneck = OHKO - Cryo/Basti/Rapi/Mamo/Rhy/Vani3, Whis/Pins/Phan/Wail/Glis/Walr4
    Scientist = set 4
    Socialite = all sets Legends
    Vet Col/Jeu/Ler/Ri = all sets Legends
    Vet Ging/Hec = set 4
    Vet Don/Pon = set 4
    Waiter = set 2
    Waitress = set 2
    Worker Hayes = Sand - Tort/Ferro/Chomp1, Shu14, Exca/Tyra/Hippo1234, Clay2, Giga23, Gastro/Crad3, Dug4, Basti34, Aero3, Regi1, Land1, Terra4
    Worker Quinn = Sand - Tort/Ferro/Chomp1, Shu14, Exca/Tyra/Hippo1234, Clay2, Giga23, Gastro/Crad3, Dug4
    Worker Rom/Valé = Hail - Dew1, Abo234, Jynx34, Cryo34, Fros/Glac/Bear/Walr/Mamo/Vani1234 [/size]

    Oh wait I forgot that the Pokémon names are French as well and maybe you don´t know them...

    There should be French players who know English Pokémon names and those could translate the lists...I don´t know how else to solve your problem.

    Here are some examples of how you use the list:

    - Socialite is the old lady trainer, all of her Pokémon will be legendaries.
    - There are two types of Workers: 1 with a helm, they use Sandstorm teams, the other wear a coat and always use Ice types.

    From the list, Artist, Battle Girl, Blackbelt, Depot Agent, Maid, Gentleman and Socialite are the easiest to figure out.

    The other trainers "set 1", "set 2", "set 3", "set 4" trainers only use one moveset. For example, the "Psychic" only uses Alakazam 4, Gengar 4, , so if you download the Pokémon moveset list with this information:

    [size=-2]Alakazam 1 TwistedSpoon 130 63 65 187 105 189 Energy Ball Psychic Telekinesis Guard Split
    Alakazam 2 Focus Sash 130 63 65 187 105 189 Psych Up Encore Protect Psychic
    Alakazam 3 Wise Glasses 130 63 65 187 105 189 Psychic Focus Blast Signal Beam Grass Knot
    Alakazam 4 Choice Specs 130 63 65 280* 105 189 Psychic Focus Blast Disable Trick

    Gengar 1 Focus Sash 135 76 80 182 95 178 Shadow Ball Dream Eater Nightmare Hypnosis
    Gengar 2 Expert Belt 135 117 80 135 95 178 Sucker Punch Fire Punch Ice Punch Will-O-Wisp
    Gengar 3 Focus Sash 135 76 80 182 95 178 Shadow Ball Taunt Focus Blast Counter
    Gengar 4 Lum Berry 135 76 80 182 95 178 Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond[/size]

    You will know that if "Psychic trainer" uses Alakazam or Gengar against you, it will always be

    Alakazam 4 Choice Specs 130 63 65 280* 105 189 Psychic Focus Blast Disable Trick
    Gengar 4 Lum Berry 135 76 80 182 95 178 Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond

    I don´t know how to help you if you don´t understand English that well, maybe you have a friend and you could translate the list into French, I´m sure there are German players who translate into German...
  9. Pavi

    Pavi

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for the post ! This list can maybe help me, the real problem was that i didn't know how to recognize the face of each trainer because the names are different in French, but i find one website (serebii) that list all trainer's sprites and their pokemon.
    For the names, i don't mind, i'm used to know all english names, so it's not a problem actually .. i Will try to get a new streak :D
  10. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Glad I could help at least a bit...

    I´ve updated the list.

    As always, if there´s mistakes, post them here...

    EDIT: Also, here´s the Typlosion team I used but was too lazy to post...

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks: 112, 62, 13, 26, 76, 27

    The streaks were achieved in September, 2011

    1. Whimsicott (M) „USOPPN“
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31-00-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 135-64-105-129-96-184
    Moves:
    ~ Sunny Day
    ~ Charm (1) / Tailwind (2)
    ~ Fake Tears
    ~ Giga Drain

    2. Typhlosion (M) „AKAINU“ (1) / „ACE“ (2)
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature: Timid
    IVs (1): 31-10-30-31-30-30
    IVs (2): 31-02-30-31-30-30
    EV spread (1): 0--0-0-6-252
    EV spread (2):
    Lv.50 (1): 167-181-110-70-111-176
    Moves:
    ~ Heat Wave (1) / Focus Blast (2)
    ~ Eruption
    ~ Overheat (1) / SolarBeam (2)
    ~ Hidden Power Ground 70 (1) / Hidden Power Rock 70 (2)

    3. Medicham (M) „SANJI“
    Item: Muscle Band
    Ability: Pure Power*
    Nature: Jolly
    IVs: 31-31-31-00-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
    Lv.50: 135-224-95-xx-96-145
    Moves:
    ~ Fake Out
    ~ Psycho Cut
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Low Kick

    4. Hydreigon (M) „TEACH“
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 167-112-110-194-111-150
    Moves:
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ Protect

    Streak 1

    #39 vs Pilot: Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Togekiss, Vespiquen.
    1. Fake Tears Zap, Eruption 75%, 30%, Zap Double Team, Swagger Typhlo.
    2. Fake Tears Mandi, hurt itself, Zap Roost, Swagger Whimsi.
    3. Whimsi hurt itself, Typhlo hurt itself, Zap DT, Mandi Roost.
    4. Fake Tears Zap, Typhlo snapped out, Eruption, Zap 5% left, Zap Roost, Mandi Sub.
    5. Whimi snapped out, Fake Tears, Zap avoided, Eruption, Zap avoided, sub broke, Roost, Roost.
    6. Fake Tears, Zap avoided, Eruption, Zap avoided, Heat Wave, Swagger, Typhlo avoided, Eruption PP depleted.
    7. Typhlo out, Hydra in, Fake Tears Mandi, Heat Wave, Whimsi fainted, Mandi Roost.
    - me Typhlo, 3-4
    8. Typhlo Heat Wave, Zap avoided, Mandi avoided, Dragon Pulse, Zap avoided, Zap DT, Swagger Hydra.
    9. Typhlo Heat Wave, Zap avoided, Hydra hurt itself, Zap DT, Mandi Punishment CH KO Typhlo.
    - me Medicham, 2-4
    10. Hydra Dragon Pulse, Zap avoided, Cham Ice Punch, Mandi fainted. Zap DT.
    - foe Togekiss, 2-3
    11. Hydra hurt itself, Cham Ice Punch 85% to Kiss, frozen solid, Zap DT.
    12. Hydra snapped out, Dragon Pulse, Zap avoided, Cham Ice Punch, Kiss fainted.
    - foe Vespiquen, 2-2
    13. Hydra Thrower, Cham Ice Punch, Vespi fainted, Zap Heat Wave, Cham avoided.
    14. Hydra Dragon Pulse, OHKO, Zap fainted.
    2-0

    You can guess at which points I was swearing and using hammer arm on the table I was playing at.

    #113 vs Pilot: Aerodactyl, Drifblim, Mandibuzz, Honchkrow
    1. Charm Aero, Eruption, Rock Slide, CH Shadow Ball, Whimsi fainted.
    - me Hydra
    2. Eruption, Slide, Typhlo fainted, Hydra Dark Pulse, Drifblim fainted.
    - me Cham, foe Mandi
    3. Fake Out Aero, Hydra Dragon Pulse, Aero fainted, Mandi Flying Gem Air Slash, Cham fainted.
    - foe Krow
    4. Krow Snatch, Hydra Dragon Pulse 80% to Honch, Mandi Nasty Plot.
    5. Dragon Pulse 60% to Mandi, Nasty Plot, Air Cutter, Hydra fainted.
    0-2

    Streak 2

    #63 vs Veteran Hecate: Tyranitar, Politoed, Salamence
    1. Sun, Eruption, Blizzard, Slide, both mine fainted.
    - me HydraCham
    2. Fake Out Toed, Dragon Pulse, Ttar fainted.
    - foe Sala
    3. Hydra Protect, Sala Outrage, Cham fainted
    4. Sala Outrage, Hydra fainted.
    0-3

    Streak 3

    #14 vs Ninetales, Archeops, Gengar – SashGar OHKOd HydraCham.

    Streak 4

    #27 vs Clerk Faust: Hariyama, Durant, Slowbro, Gothitelle
    1. Eruption, Sash, Giga Drain, Ant fainted, Brick Break, Typhlo 85/158.
    - foe Slowbro
    2. Eruption, Giga Drain, Bro 20% left, Harry Ice Punch Whimsi, Bro Trick Room.
    3. Charm, Bro Blizzard, Ice Punch, Typhlo 73/158, Eruption
    - me Medicham
    4. Bro Surf, Typhlo fainted, Harry Ice Punch CH KO Cham
    - me Hydra
    5. Hydra Protect
    6. Bro Blizzard, Hydra avoided, Harry Ice Punch, Hydra Dark Pulse, Bro fainted.
    - foe Gothitelle
    7. Hydra Dragon Pulse, Harry 10% left, Brick Break, Hydra 31/167, Goth Flatter.
    8. Hydra Dragon Pulse, Harry fainted, Gothitelle Sub.
    9. Hydra Dark Pulse, sub broke, LO damage, Hydra fainted.
    0-1

    Streak 5

    #77 vs Gentleman Kavan: Suicune, Regirock, Latias, Terrakion
    1. Sunny Day, Eruption, Blizzard, Typhlo avoided, Whimsi 29/135, Regirock Stone Edge, Typhlo fainted.
    - me Cham
    2. Whimsi Giga Drain Cune to 15%, Cune Icy Wind, Whimsi 17/135, Cham Low Kick, Regirock fainted.
    - foe Latias
    3. Tailwind, Latias Draco Meteor, Cham fainted, White Herb, Cune Blizzard, Whimsi fainted.
    - me Hydra
    4. Hydra Dragon Pulse, Latias fainted, Cune Icy Wind, 93/167.
    - foe Terrakion
    5. Hydra Dragon Pulse, 85% dmg to Terra, Terra Sacred Sword, Hydra fainted.

    Streak 6

    #28 vs ???: Flareon, Hydreigon, Politoed, Blissey - Fake Tears Flareon, White Herb, HP Rock did only 35%, came down to Blissey stalling both Typhlo and Hydra, 0-1.
  11. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    After reading the Suicune dressed as a Cobalion...I came up with this team:

    Cobalion @ Lefties/Chesto Berry
    Timid/Justified
    252Hp/112SpA/140Spe
    -CM
    -Sub
    -Rest
    -Flash Cannon

    Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant/Intimidate
    136HP/252Att/116Spe
    -Brave Bird
    -Close Combat
    -U-turn
    -Return

    Torterra @ Shell Bell/Lefties (if Cob is using Chesto)
    Impish/Overgrow
    252HP/252Def/4Att
    -Wood Hammer
    -EQ
    -Curse
    -Protect

    I think this team covers each others weaknesses pretty well. Even though 2/3 members can take a hit, all 3 can dish out some real punishment. If I do decide to use this team, I think it'll be more of an intrecate team than the normal HO ones I've been using in the train.
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    If you are using Cobalion, it makes more sense to use a fire-resist for your other stat booster instead of something that is also weak to fire. Like maybe Curse Snorlax/Swampert/Quagsire or DD Dragonite/Salamence/Haxorus/Gyarados (if you don't mind using commonly used subway pokemon). Or you can use a bulky water toxi-staller like Milotic or Slowbro/Slowking.

    I tried Milotic recently (the typical Toxic / Scald / Ice Beam / Recover) and it was pretty good, but then crits sometimes make it hard for Milotic to last too long. So I was thinking maybe I should try out Slowbro or Slowking, since Regenerator switching can recover from that extra crit damage and come back to continue stalling. The much lower speed will mean I need to be more careful though of course.
  13. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    As I was sitting there thinking about what pokes to use on a team, i thought of using a water type to cover my fire weakness, but than I thought, well if I'm using a water type...y would I be using Cob? Because I like the cob idea for his Ice resist and his faux-suicune likeness.

    I don't mind using common subway pokes, its that since I'm deployed I have no real way of getting new pokes...so I has what I has. lol.

    Maybe switch Staraptor for Gyara:

    Gyarados @ Lum Berry
    Adamant/Intimidate
    156HP/252Att/96Spe
    -Waterfall
    -DD
    -Bounce
    -Double-Edge/Edgequake
  14. NoCheese

    NoCheese "Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    361
    I do very much like Gyarados. Maybe Substitute or Taunt in the last spot? Crimson put together a nice streak using Taunt Gyarados, and Substitute is just ridiculously helpful. Waterfall/Bounce already give you perfect coverage against everything but Empoleon, if I recall correctly, so if you use a third attacking move, Quake seems preferable to me over Double-Edge or Stone Edge (which also misses a bit much for my taste).
  15. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,037
    Water/flying also gets stopped by Lanturn who (unlike Empoleon) can actually harm Gyarados. So I agree that Earthquake seems like the better attacking option for the third slot.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I got a streak of 68 with my Zoroark team, but now I'm trying out Whimsicott. It really is insanely good, but it has a serious case of 4-moveslot syndrome. It has so many options for hurting the opponent, but it can't cover everything without help. So I've been thinking: does a team that uses both Cottonee and Whimsicott sound too gimmicky? I figured if I can run both I'll be able to use all of their useful moves between the 2 of them and both have Prankster!
  16. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    890
    Well last time I posted my streak sadly ended at 69 in doubles. I decided to streak again. Today I went from 21-77 and still continuing. The odd thing is hax has been on my side. I've been get flinch haxes, thunderbolt paralysis and crits. Odd, when its usually the computer haxing u.
  17. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    i do believe every now and again hax does turn into your favor, but doesnt last for ever lol
  18. Hydeous

    Hydeous

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    As an Ice-resisting mon that can make competitive use of a perfect accuracy (and STAB SE) move, Lucario comes to mind. Granted, it still has to rely on Bullet Punch/Crunch for Froslass.
  19. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    OMG...i think i might have come up with the ultimate gimick team, but it needs some the edges smoothed out so after some help. (only done few sets 7 with atm tho)

    The team consist of: Snorlax, Jumpluff and togekiss. (havent decided fourth member yet but its currently standard garchomp) doesnt look to gimicky does it? well here we gooo!

    Leads:

    Jumpluff@ Focus Sash
    Evs:252speed/252hp/4a
    Nature:Jolly
    Moves:
    1.Rage Powder
    2.Encore
    3.Memento
    4.Aerial Ace

    Snorlax@ leftovers
    Evs:252a/252hp/4d
    Nature:Bold
    Moves:
    1.Belly Drum
    2.Protect
    3.Earthquake
    4.Rock slide

    The idea is as basic as it can be, belly drum with lax while Jump rage powers and dies that turn (if doesnt die protect and meneto) resulting in a free switch in with a +6 lax. Then you bring in member number 3, togekiss.

    Togekiss@ Choice Scarf
    Evs:252HP/252speed/4spa
    Nature:Timid
    Moves:
    1.After you
    2.Auras Sphere
    3.Air slash
    4.Flamethrower

    And here comes the gimic, after you means that the targeted poke moves directly after the user, so having a scarfed kiss use it means lax moves after it! So i've kinda got a +6 snorlax at an incredable 217 speed! Its disapointing that its not quick enough to outspeed the whole tower and a couple the faster ones are a threat but come on thats impressive!

    Its a shame there isnt a faster user who is amune to earthquake but o well, the team just works well but havent got decent streak yet and duno when i'l have time so thought i'd post it after some views.

    I was orginaly going to use marowak in snorlaxs place but feared the double surf/blizzards, but the beauty about thick fat lax is he laughs at the pokes targeting jumpluff with heatwave/blizzard and hardly takes much from surf.

    the fourth member is where i'm stuck, i need one who can handle the few faster threats (without its own scarf) and work well with lax when fully set up. Garchomp isnt the answer but team is kinda a 3man team just need a clearner-up-a if you have any ideas?

    like i said its a pure gimick team but got feeling it could do decently well if set out right, and luck on your side lol. so any ideas or thoughts would be great, would love to get a gimic team on the leader board haa!

    cheers for reading, looking forward to your comments (if there is any :P)
  20. Agonist

    Agonist It’s been a long night... away from it all.
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,597
    Bullet Punch still does a buttload to Froslass, if it doesn't outright ko it
  21. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    890
    Tell me about it -_-. I ended up losing after 84 straight wins to a double team zapdos. Ill be posting my streak and team probably tomorrow.
  22. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    425
    @Ashez

    Amoongus can Rage Powder with the added benefit of Effect Spore, which can give you lots of helpful hax on the side. Spore is also pretty nice assuming you get that extra turn.
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I had a similar strategy before, and from what I know, I think Jumpluff will actually work much better. Having Jumpluff with that nice speed, Memento, and ground immunity for Snorlax to Earthquake totally outweigh the advantages of 30% chance of effect spore and a slow Spore.

    EDIT: Oh, but definitely don't have a BOLD nature for Snorlax. It's probably just a typo. You might want more Def EVs too (in fact, move a lot of the HP EVs to Def), because Rockslides and Earthquakes WILL KO Snorlax after it Belly Drums faster than you'd like from my experience.

    For reference, this was my team that ran a similar strategy back in D/P Tower: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1804900&postcount=1644
    Notes:
    - Used Togekiss to Follow Me instead of Jumpluff Rage Powder since Rage Powder doesn't exist back then (I think Jumpluff > Togekiss for this type of strategy, though who knows)
    - Used Bronzong for Trick Room as opposed to Scarf After You. Both have their positives and negatives. Trick Room means Bronzong can then Psych Up and start attacking also, while Scarf After You is kind of cool because it requires 0 set up turns for Snorlax. I.e. with Trick Room, Snorlax will usually have to Protect as Bronzong Trick Rooms on that turn. That one turn of set up could end up bad if it fails somehow (Bronzong flinches or faints from a crit or double target). After You is good but it means Snorlax will be the only one attacking. Rockslide + EQ will not be OHKOing everything.
  24. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    This might be a crazy idea, but what about using Audino as your 4th? He has great moves to help your team and with its Healer ability it can save your lax if he gets hit by a status ability. He can also rock Heal Pulse/Healing Wish after a Belly Drum to heal him and become a very real threat. It can also use Simple Beam to mess with the opponents abilities, like Levitate so your lax can EQ like a beast. Maybe something like this:

    Audino @ Quick Claw
    Calm/Healer
    252HP/252Spe/4SpD
    -Heal Pulse
    -Thunder Wave
    -Simple Beam
    -Last Resort
  25. ~Mercury~

    ~Mercury~

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Battle Subway Singles
    Streak: 509
    Team: Gengar, Garchomp, Suicune


    Yeah, finally I managed to successfully not misplay a streak after ~100 battles or even before. (though I lost due to misplay in battle 510, but that didn't matter that much, as I had reached all I wanted to reach and even more).

    As you can see, this is still my old team, or at least a slight variation of it. In fact, the only change is, that Garchomp now has Fire Fang instead of Dragon Claw. Though Fire Fang has proven to be (slightly) more useful than Dragon Claw, I'm sure that this wasn't the key difference between this streak and the ones before, but the way I used this team. As I tried 6 oder 7 streaks with the new team before, plus those with older versions of the team, I became more familiar with it, and knew when I could safely setup with Suicune and when I could not, as well as how I could handle special foes the best way. Due to this, and that I probably played more concentrated at least after I had beaten my old record, I didn't lose to misplay, as I always did with this team before (sometimes it was not that severe, but when re-thinking the lost battles, I always found a way how I could have won them).
    In addition to this, I did not encounter extremely bad luck. Although my team is pretty hax-proof (explanation later), in some closer situations I had to hope that the opponent's Dark Pulse won't flinch or his Thunderbolt won't crit this turn. That, of course, didn't happen too often, but often enough, that it could have ended my streak much earlier.

    Although the team is almost identical to its previous version, I'll post it again, just for completeness:

    Gengar@Focus Sash
    Timid 4/0/0/252/0/252
    Levitate
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Destiny Bond

    Garchomp@Choice Band
    Jolly 4/252/0/0/0/252
    Sand Veil
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang
    - Rock Slide

    Suicune@Chesto Berry
    Bold 252/0/252/4/0/0
    Pressure
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Substitute
    - Rest

    The movesets shouldn't need much explanations, their not really special and I already explained most things in my previous post. Probably Chesto Berry on Suicune may seem a bit surprising, as none of my other teammembers needs and holds Leftovers, but I used Chesto Berry since my first try (initially because I didn't have Leftovers, haha) and I never found a reason to remove it, because it's really a huge plus if Suicune is not unable to attack when it had just begun to setup, that makes setting up on stronger moves much easier, because Suicune can get enough Calm Mind boosts relatively easy, and then, when the attack doesn't do enough damage any more, it can put up a sub and then the opponent's chances to kill it are (almost) 0.

    I chose Gengar as a lead, because it wins lots of matchups, and loses almost none thanks to Destiny Bond. So if I face a problematic foe, Gengar can usually safely remove him by just using Destiny Bond. Furthermore, Gengar outspeeds and 2HKOs lots of opponents, and after that, I can usually achieve another KO with Destiny Bond. That means, Gengar can often bring me in a very good 2-1 situation. Gengar is a very reliable pokemon, since few things can really stop him from achieving a KO; Weather is a bit tricky, but Tyranitar can be dealt with by Garchomp, Hippowdon usually curses first turn (so I can Destiny Bond him without problems) and faints to a combination of Shadow Ball and Choice Band Outrage, and Abomasnow can be killed by switching to Suicune, setting up, if it's one of the movesets Suicune can set up on, and switching back and Destiny Bond it, if not. Priority moves I usually can expect, because of my many tries before. (Oh, and the AI seems to strangely use Sucker Punch: If Gengar is at full health, opponents like Bisharp attack Gengar with Sucker Punch, then, when both Gengar and Bisharp are at 1 HP due to their sashes, he tries to finish me off with Iron Head (I know that, because I initially switched to Suicune in this situation) instead of using Sucker Punch again, so I can just finish him off with Shadow Ball). Paralysis can stop Gengar from getting a kill, but I mostly expect those moves and switch to Garchomp, which can almost always reliably kill those pokemon (because most are electric types and OHKOed by Earthquake and/or Outrage). Flinches can be a problem, but few foes outspeed Gengar and those who do usually use Rock Slide and can be dealt with by Garchomp with relative ease. Quick Claw is rare and doesn't always work; additionaly, Suicune can deal with many Quick Claw users like Glaceon or Vaporeon easily.
    All in all, Gengar is very reliable, hard to stop and almost always gets a kill, if not two, so it's a great choice for my lead.

    Garchomps job is to remove electric and many grass types, which are usually problematic for Suicune and sometimes also for Gengar. Of course, there are also other pokemon it takes care of, but mostly the group above mentioned is important because Suicune has problems with them. But with its raw power, Garchomp can easily outright OHKO lots of foes, and 2HKO almost everything. Garchomp basically has only problems with faster foes that can hit it hard and bulky foes with an ice-type move. The latter ones are usually setup fodder for Suicune, while the further ones can often be beaten by Garchomp, even if it has to take a hard hit, because it almost always can OHKO back then. Faster foes, that can OHKO Garchomp, and even worse, not only outspeed Garchomp but also Gengar, are one of the biggest problems of this team, especially Starmie, Latios, Latias and Froslass. All of those can also hit Suicune hard with Thunderbolt oder STAB Draco Meteor. To beat them, I often have to sacrifice something, at least if they come in when Garchomp is in play. If I face them, when I have a +6/+6 Suicune with a sub up, things go easier, of course. But if not, I usually let either Garchomp or Gengar die and then try to setup with Suicune (which is often not so difficult then, because Lati@s aren't so dangerous after a SpA-drop from Draco Meteor and Froslass doesn't hit so hard even if it has Thunderbolt. Those Starmie with Thunderbolt (the most annoying ones, with King's Rock having chances to flinch Gengar and Garchomp) are dealt with on a different way: If Gengar flinched, or is at 1 HP when Starmie is sent out, I sacrifice it and send in Suicune. Then I repeatedly switch between Suicune and Garchomp until it runs out of Ice Beam PP and then kill it with Garchomp.
    But yeah, i don't want to go too much into detail, because that's not really important.
    Garchomp is an important member of my team, because it can deal with the majority of pokemon my other team members have problems with, and also is in a very good position against many opponents due to his good speed and bulk and immense attacking power.

    When Suicune first entered a spot into my team, I was unsure, if such a defensive pokemon (I had preferred an all-out-attacking playstyle before) could work, and at the beginning, it seemed to be good, but too vulnerable to crits; but since I traded Ice Beam for Sub, this pokemon absolutely convinced me in any way.
    Even without support helpers, Suicune can set up on so many pokemon without any notable risks. Status can stop it, since it has Sub, Rest as well as Scald against freezes and the Berry, that helps occasionally against fast sleep inducers. Strong attacks often can't stop it, because it can PP stall them. Critical Hits usually can't stop it, as it can hide itself safely under a Sub and put that up before many foes in addtion to this. Due to its decent speed and Substitute, OHKO users are also no problem with few exceptions. Physical attackers often can't break its sub because of its enormous defenses and special attacks have even worse chances to do so after one or tho Calm Mind boosts. After 6 boosts, it's Subsitute (!) even survives most super effective STAB moves like Zapdos' or Magnezone's Thunderbolt. Due to that, there is almost no attack that can directly OHKO Suicune, even a STAB SE Leaf Blade crit from Leafeon couldn't take it down (it survived with 1 HP, haha).
    Defensive foes cannot kill Suicune because the Sub blocks both status and their weak attacks, and even if Suicune can't kill them in return (e.g. because they are very bulky and/or resist water, or because they have Water Absorb, Storm Drain or Dry Skin), it basically always wins PP stallwars (even without maxed PP on all moves). The only one I ever lost with Suicune was against Acid Armor Vaporeon, but I learned out of that and now only PP stall its attacking moves, and then it's easy to kill for my other pokemon.
    But Suicune can not only setup easy, it also hugely benefits from a full setup, since that often basically means a safe win. Special attackers - with very few exceptions - can't touch Suicune behind its sub and were killed by one ore a few Scalds. Physical attackers have better chances to break Suicune's Sub, but even then they almost always have no chance because they can't hit Suicune hard enough and faint fast to +6 Scald. Additionally, due to Suicune's 85 Base Speed, many foes are even easier to beat, because they either were killed before they can attack or they cannot break Suicune's Sub (and if they get a crit, I can safely set up a new sub), and if they can, they are very rarely able survive two +6 Scalds. The third pokemon is usually also no problem for Suicune, because most times, the second one couldn't even break its Sub, and even if Suicune loses against the third pokemon, I usually still have Gengar and Garchomp (because I always switch them out and Suicune in, if I know I can set up with it; that also means, that if I have already lost one of my pokemon and set up with Suicune, I almost always have already killed one foe, and so Suicune sets up on the second one, it only has to beat the third 1vs1 with a sub and +6/+6, which also is an almost guaranteed win, especially as I still have another pokemon left), and there are next to no foes that have chances to kill both of them, Gengar's Destiny Bond can stop pretty much everything.
    Suicune is probably the most important member of my team, and probably also the best one I've ever used in the subway, but without its teammates, it would also be relatively useless. If it can not setup, which is the case against some boosters and many pokemon with super effective (STAB) moves, it's basically a wasted slot, because it cannot really hurt those opponents. But of course, every pokemon needs some support, and with the proper one, Suicune is a beast!

    As mentioned in the introduction, the team is also pretty hax-proof:
    Gengar does not care about crits because of Focus Sash, has not so much problems with misses due to Destiny Bond, and is immune to 3/4 OHKO-moves.
    Garchomp seems to not be hax-proof in any way on the first view (maybe besides his immunity against almost all paralyzing moves), but when equipped with Choice Band, it can OHKO may foes directly, so they don't have any chances to get lucky. That's also my most important reason to use CB over other items like Yache Berry, because if Garchomp survives an Ice Beam thanks to the latter on, there always is a ~14% chance that it is killed by a critical hit or frozen for at least one round (and so killed in the next one).
    But Suicune is the most reliable Pokemon in my team (and it is the main reason, why this team works so solid), as it has protection against almost all variants of hax: Freezes can be removed by Scald immediately (mainly due to this, I decided to not replace Scald with Surf), critical hits can be taken by the substitute (and Suicune is so bulky that it can often even take a CH when it's not under a sub), Paralysis is blocked by sub and removed by Rest, Bright Powder and Lax Incense are unimportant in most cases because Suicune almost always fully sets up first, and then, the opponent often cannot do anything even if Scald misses. Quick Claw users often cannot hurt Suicune anyway, although it can sometimes be annoying, when they break the sub the turn I kill them and only move first due to QC, or when they break the sub and QC CH next turn, but those situations occure very rarely and even then, Suicune usually wins. OHKO moves from slower foes (and almost all OHKO-users are slower) can be PP-stalled easily with Sub and Pressure. I'm sure I forgot to mention some things, but that list should show, how reliable Suicune works and that's what makes it so great.

    How I lost:
    Like all my other streaks: due to misplay.
    I lost to Regice, Regirock and Thundurus.
    Gengar vs. Regice
    I didn't want to switch to Suicune, because I feared Thunderbolt, so I left Gengar in and Focus Blast missed, while Regice striked back with Ice Beam. Then I had no other option than using Destiny Bond, which led to a 2-2.
    I send in Garchomp, the opponent sends in Regirock. EQ brings it down to ~20%, Stone Edge does some damage.
    Here I should have looked in the moveset list, but I was to lazy and so just tried to attack again, which allowed Regirock to KO Garchomp with a Custap Berry Explosion (there is only one Regirock with Stone Edge, so I should've seen that coming).
    Then it's Suicune vs. Thundurus and it's basically over, only the physical THundurus can possibly lose against Suicune. But it was a special one and killed Suicune with two hits. Ironically, Suicune got a Scald crit + burn in that situation, but it didn't help any more...

    Videos:
    #500: 15-28740-34133 [Not really interesting, but hey, it's #500!]
    #510: 36-03894-80750

    Picture Proof:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG](it's 504 (and ongoing), because I stopped continueing the streak at that point (no good idea, I always lost streaks soon after I did a longer break...) and already posted the unfinished streak in a German forum with this proof (since quite a while (that I needed to write this post or to motivate me to do so, haha) also the complete streak, but without a new pic), because I had reached my highest "aim" and there was no real reason to go on, and I had no motivation anyway after playing for so many hours at those days. I didn't make a new picture from the new record yet, but I'll probably do so as soon as I have access to a camera.



    I probably won't try another singles run for a long time, because I don't have enough motivation with such a high record to break, an anyways, Doubles are nice, so I'll probably try something there, but it'll be hard to find enough time the next months (school, I miss you ;_;).




    @ashez:
    I would think about giving Snorlax a Sitrus Berry rather than Lefties, as the berry heals more HP than Lefties the first three turns, and Snorlax will rarely be in battle longer than 4 turns. Also, than there will be a lower chance that Snorlax is KOed by multi-target moves without doing anything, since they have to do 75% damage and not only 50%.
    Additionally, what about using Follow Me on Togekiss? If Snorlax flinches from Rock Slide, for example, an Jumpluff faints that turn, you have to set up Snorlax without any help; that could be difficult, but if you give Togekiss Follow Me, you would have some kind of a second chance, if something goes wrong. If you're mainly using After You, the loss of one coverage move shouldn't be that problematic, but I haven't tested the team, so it's hard to say if that's necessary or not.

    @BeastMode:
    If he wanted to go that way, I think Latias would be the better choice: It also has Heal Pulse and Thunder Wave, but much better speed, better typing synergy with Snorlax and an immunity to Earthquake. Though it doesn't have Simple Beam, it has lots of other support options like Helping Hand or Safeguard (and even the possibility to Psych Up Snorlax' boosts and then go physical with Dragon Claw or Outrage, but that's too gimmicky, I guess).

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)