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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. ~Mercury~

    ~Mercury~

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Battle Subway Singles
    Streak: 509
    Team: Gengar, Garchomp, Suicune


    Yeah, finally I managed to successfully not misplay a streak after ~100 battles or even before. (though I lost due to misplay in battle 510, but that didn't matter that much, as I had reached all I wanted to reach and even more).

    As you can see, this is still my old team, or at least a slight variation of it. In fact, the only change is, that Garchomp now has Fire Fang instead of Dragon Claw. Though Fire Fang has proven to be (slightly) more useful than Dragon Claw, I'm sure that this wasn't the key difference between this streak and the ones before, but the way I used this team. As I tried 6 oder 7 streaks with the new team before, plus those with older versions of the team, I became more familiar with it, and knew when I could safely setup with Suicune and when I could not, as well as how I could handle special foes the best way. Due to this, and that I probably played more concentrated at least after I had beaten my old record, I didn't lose to misplay, as I always did with this team before (sometimes it was not that severe, but when re-thinking the lost battles, I always found a way how I could have won them).
    In addition to this, I did not encounter extremely bad luck. Although my team is pretty hax-proof (explanation later), in some closer situations I had to hope that the opponent's Dark Pulse won't flinch or his Thunderbolt won't crit this turn. That, of course, didn't happen too often, but often enough, that it could have ended my streak much earlier.

    Although the team is almost identical to its previous version, I'll post it again, just for completeness:

    Gengar@Focus Sash
    Timid 4/0/0/252/0/252
    Levitate
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Destiny Bond

    Garchomp@Choice Band
    Jolly 4/252/0/0/0/252
    Sand Veil
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang
    - Rock Slide

    Suicune@Chesto Berry
    Bold 252/0/252/4/0/0
    Pressure
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Substitute
    - Rest

    The movesets shouldn't need much explanations, their not really special and I already explained most things in my previous post. Probably Chesto Berry on Suicune may seem a bit surprising, as none of my other teammembers needs and holds Leftovers, but I used Chesto Berry since my first try (initially because I didn't have Leftovers, haha) and I never found a reason to remove it, because it's really a huge plus if Suicune is not unable to attack when it had just begun to setup, that makes setting up on stronger moves much easier, because Suicune can get enough Calm Mind boosts relatively easy, and then, when the attack doesn't do enough damage any more, it can put up a sub and then the opponent's chances to kill it are (almost) 0.

    I chose Gengar as a lead, because it wins lots of matchups, and loses almost none thanks to Destiny Bond. So if I face a problematic foe, Gengar can usually safely remove him by just using Destiny Bond. Furthermore, Gengar outspeeds and 2HKOs lots of opponents, and after that, I can usually achieve another KO with Destiny Bond. That means, Gengar can often bring me in a very good 2-1 situation. Gengar is a very reliable pokemon, since few things can really stop him from achieving a KO; Weather is a bit tricky, but Tyranitar can be dealt with by Garchomp, Hippowdon usually curses first turn (so I can Destiny Bond him without problems) and faints to a combination of Shadow Ball and Choice Band Outrage, and Abomasnow can be killed by switching to Suicune, setting up, if it's one of the movesets Suicune can set up on, and switching back and Destiny Bond it, if not. Priority moves I usually can expect, because of my many tries before. (Oh, and the AI seems to strangely use Sucker Punch: If Gengar is at full health, opponents like Bisharp attack Gengar with Sucker Punch, then, when both Gengar and Bisharp are at 1 HP due to their sashes, he tries to finish me off with Iron Head (I know that, because I initially switched to Suicune in this situation) instead of using Sucker Punch again, so I can just finish him off with Shadow Ball). Paralysis can stop Gengar from getting a kill, but I mostly expect those moves and switch to Garchomp, which can almost always reliably kill those pokemon (because most are electric types and OHKOed by Earthquake and/or Outrage). Flinches can be a problem, but few foes outspeed Gengar and those who do usually use Rock Slide and can be dealt with by Garchomp with relative ease. Quick Claw is rare and doesn't always work; additionaly, Suicune can deal with many Quick Claw users like Glaceon or Vaporeon easily.
    All in all, Gengar is very reliable, hard to stop and almost always gets a kill, if not two, so it's a great choice for my lead.

    Garchomps job is to remove electric and many grass types, which are usually problematic for Suicune and sometimes also for Gengar. Of course, there are also other pokemon it takes care of, but mostly the group above mentioned is important because Suicune has problems with them. But with its raw power, Garchomp can easily outright OHKO lots of foes, and 2HKO almost everything. Garchomp basically has only problems with faster foes that can hit it hard and bulky foes with an ice-type move. The latter ones are usually setup fodder for Suicune, while the further ones can often be beaten by Garchomp, even if it has to take a hard hit, because it almost always can OHKO back then. Faster foes, that can OHKO Garchomp, and even worse, not only outspeed Garchomp but also Gengar, are one of the biggest problems of this team, especially Starmie, Latios, Latias and Froslass. All of those can also hit Suicune hard with Thunderbolt oder STAB Draco Meteor. To beat them, I often have to sacrifice something, at least if they come in when Garchomp is in play. If I face them, when I have a +6/+6 Suicune with a sub up, things go easier, of course. But if not, I usually let either Garchomp or Gengar die and then try to setup with Suicune (which is often not so difficult then, because Lati@s aren't so dangerous after a SpA-drop from Draco Meteor and Froslass doesn't hit so hard even if it has Thunderbolt. Those Starmie with Thunderbolt (the most annoying ones, with King's Rock having chances to flinch Gengar and Garchomp) are dealt with on a different way: If Gengar flinched, or is at 1 HP when Starmie is sent out, I sacrifice it and send in Suicune. Then I repeatedly switch between Suicune and Garchomp until it runs out of Ice Beam PP and then kill it with Garchomp.
    But yeah, i don't want to go too much into detail, because that's not really important.
    Garchomp is an important member of my team, because it can deal with the majority of pokemon my other team members have problems with, and also is in a very good position against many opponents due to his good speed and bulk and immense attacking power.

    When Suicune first entered a spot into my team, I was unsure, if such a defensive pokemon (I had preferred an all-out-attacking playstyle before) could work, and at the beginning, it seemed to be good, but too vulnerable to crits; but since I traded Ice Beam for Sub, this pokemon absolutely convinced me in any way.
    Even without support helpers, Suicune can set up on so many pokemon without any notable risks. Status can stop it, since it has Sub, Rest as well as Scald against freezes and the Berry, that helps occasionally against fast sleep inducers. Strong attacks often can't stop it, because it can PP stall them. Critical Hits usually can't stop it, as it can hide itself safely under a Sub and put that up before many foes in addtion to this. Due to its decent speed and Substitute, OHKO users are also no problem with few exceptions. Physical attackers often can't break its sub because of its enormous defenses and special attacks have even worse chances to do so after one or tho Calm Mind boosts. After 6 boosts, it's Subsitute (!) even survives most super effective STAB moves like Zapdos' or Magnezone's Thunderbolt. Due to that, there is almost no attack that can directly OHKO Suicune, even a STAB SE Leaf Blade crit from Leafeon couldn't take it down (it survived with 1 HP, haha).
    Defensive foes cannot kill Suicune because the Sub blocks both status and their weak attacks, and even if Suicune can't kill them in return (e.g. because they are very bulky and/or resist water, or because they have Water Absorb, Storm Drain or Dry Skin), it basically always wins PP stallwars (even without maxed PP on all moves). The only one I ever lost with Suicune was against Acid Armor Vaporeon, but I learned out of that and now only PP stall its attacking moves, and then it's easy to kill for my other pokemon.
    But Suicune can not only setup easy, it also hugely benefits from a full setup, since that often basically means a safe win. Special attackers - with very few exceptions - can't touch Suicune behind its sub and were killed by one ore a few Scalds. Physical attackers have better chances to break Suicune's Sub, but even then they almost always have no chance because they can't hit Suicune hard enough and faint fast to +6 Scald. Additionally, due to Suicune's 85 Base Speed, many foes are even easier to beat, because they either were killed before they can attack or they cannot break Suicune's Sub (and if they get a crit, I can safely set up a new sub), and if they can, they are very rarely able survive two +6 Scalds. The third pokemon is usually also no problem for Suicune, because most times, the second one couldn't even break its Sub, and even if Suicune loses against the third pokemon, I usually still have Gengar and Garchomp (because I always switch them out and Suicune in, if I know I can set up with it; that also means, that if I have already lost one of my pokemon and set up with Suicune, I almost always have already killed one foe, and so Suicune sets up on the second one, it only has to beat the third 1vs1 with a sub and +6/+6, which also is an almost guaranteed win, especially as I still have another pokemon left), and there are next to no foes that have chances to kill both of them, Gengar's Destiny Bond can stop pretty much everything.
    Suicune is probably the most important member of my team, and probably also the best one I've ever used in the subway, but without its teammates, it would also be relatively useless. If it can not setup, which is the case against some boosters and many pokemon with super effective (STAB) moves, it's basically a wasted slot, because it cannot really hurt those opponents. But of course, every pokemon needs some support, and with the proper one, Suicune is a beast!

    As mentioned in the introduction, the team is also pretty hax-proof:
    Gengar does not care about crits because of Focus Sash, has not so much problems with misses due to Destiny Bond, and is immune to 3/4 OHKO-moves.
    Garchomp seems to not be hax-proof in any way on the first view (maybe besides his immunity against almost all paralyzing moves), but when equipped with Choice Band, it can OHKO may foes directly, so they don't have any chances to get lucky. That's also my most important reason to use CB over other items like Yache Berry, because if Garchomp survives an Ice Beam thanks to the latter on, there always is a ~14% chance that it is killed by a critical hit or frozen for at least one round (and so killed in the next one).
    But Suicune is the most reliable Pokemon in my team (and it is the main reason, why this team works so solid), as it has protection against almost all variants of hax: Freezes can be removed by Scald immediately (mainly due to this, I decided to not replace Scald with Surf), critical hits can be taken by the substitute (and Suicune is so bulky that it can often even take a CH when it's not under a sub), Paralysis is blocked by sub and removed by Rest, Bright Powder and Lax Incense are unimportant in most cases because Suicune almost always fully sets up first, and then, the opponent often cannot do anything even if Scald misses. Quick Claw users often cannot hurt Suicune anyway, although it can sometimes be annoying, when they break the sub the turn I kill them and only move first due to QC, or when they break the sub and QC CH next turn, but those situations occure very rarely and even then, Suicune usually wins. OHKO moves from slower foes (and almost all OHKO-users are slower) can be PP-stalled easily with Sub and Pressure. I'm sure I forgot to mention some things, but that list should show, how reliable Suicune works and that's what makes it so great.

    How I lost:
    Like all my other streaks: due to misplay.
    I lost to Regice, Regirock and Thundurus.
    Gengar vs. Regice
    I didn't want to switch to Suicune, because I feared Thunderbolt, so I left Gengar in and Focus Blast missed, while Regice striked back with Ice Beam. Then I had no other option than using Destiny Bond, which led to a 2-2.
    I send in Garchomp, the opponent sends in Regirock. EQ brings it down to ~20%, Stone Edge does some damage.
    Here I should have looked in the moveset list, but I was to lazy and so just tried to attack again, which allowed Regirock to KO Garchomp with a Custap Berry Explosion (there is only one Regirock with Stone Edge, so I should've seen that coming).
    Then it's Suicune vs. Thundurus and it's basically over, only the physical THundurus can possibly lose against Suicune. But it was a special one and killed Suicune with two hits. Ironically, Suicune got a Scald crit + burn in that situation, but it didn't help any more...

    Videos:
    #500: 15-28740-34133 [Not really interesting, but hey, it's #500!]
    #510: 36-03894-80750

    Picture Proof:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG](it's 504 (and ongoing), because I stopped continueing the streak at that point (no good idea, I always lost streaks soon after I did a longer break...) and already posted the unfinished streak in a German forum with this proof (since quite a while (that I needed to write this post or to motivate me to do so, haha) also the complete streak, but without a new pic), because I had reached my highest "aim" and there was no real reason to go on, and I had no motivation anyway after playing for so many hours at those days. I didn't make a new picture from the new record yet, but I'll probably do so as soon as I have access to a camera.



    I probably won't try another singles run for a long time, because I don't have enough motivation with such a high record to break, an anyways, Doubles are nice, so I'll probably try something there, but it'll be hard to find enough time the next months (school, I miss you ;_;).




    @ashez:
    I would think about giving Snorlax a Sitrus Berry rather than Lefties, as the berry heals more HP than Lefties the first three turns, and Snorlax will rarely be in battle longer than 4 turns. Also, than there will be a lower chance that Snorlax is KOed by multi-target moves without doing anything, since they have to do 75% damage and not only 50%.
    Additionally, what about using Follow Me on Togekiss? If Snorlax flinches from Rock Slide, for example, an Jumpluff faints that turn, you have to set up Snorlax without any help; that could be difficult, but if you give Togekiss Follow Me, you would have some kind of a second chance, if something goes wrong. If you're mainly using After You, the loss of one coverage move shouldn't be that problematic, but I haven't tested the team, so it's hard to say if that's necessary or not.

    @BeastMode:
    If he wanted to go that way, I think Latias would be the better choice: It also has Heal Pulse and Thunder Wave, but much better speed, better typing synergy with Snorlax and an immunity to Earthquake. Though it doesn't have Simple Beam, it has lots of other support options like Helping Hand or Safeguard (and even the possibility to Psych Up Snorlax' boosts and then go physical with Dragon Claw or Outrage, but that's too gimmicky, I guess).
  2. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,023
    That's a damn fine streak Mercury, good job.

    Anyway, I've just beaten my personal best by a large amount so I'd thought I'd share. Kinda seems tiny compared to Mercury but meh...

    Super Singles Streak: 186

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
    Prankster
    Timid
    IVs: 31/x/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 36/0/252/0/0/220
    Stats: 140/78/137/95/95/180

    Charm
    Memento
    Taunt
    Stun Spore

    Bisharp @ Sitrus Berry
    Defiant
    Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 228/252/0/0/28/0
    Stats: 169/194/120/70/94/90

    Sucker Punch
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Low Sweep

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Multiscale
    Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 204/252/0/0/0/52
    Stats: 192/204/115/99/120/107

    Dragon Claw
    Dragon Dance
    Substitute
    Roost

    This team is very similar to Jumpmans, except he used 2 cripplers and 1 sweeper while I used 1 crippler and 2 sweepers. I feel like a bit of a sell out for using a Crippler-to-Sweeper team since I've always hated it, but I actually had fun with this. I was originally aiming for 120 wins, so I'm definitely happy with 186! For now I think that puts me in the top 10, though I don't know how long that will last!

    So Whimsicott is obviously insanely good. As I've lamented before, it really wishes it could have 10 move slots. I use Taunt which is just so useful for stopping set up leads (in fact most leads tend to start with status moves so Taunt is used a lot). Charm makes all physical opponents useless. I used Stun Spore rather than Cotton Spore because I wanted something that would cripple things with Clear Body (Regice can be threatening to this team without the paralysis). It also helps with U-turners/Volt Switchers, since it sticks with them even if they switch. Memento helps with Special attackers, and it also allows me to switch something in without them taking a hit. Other moves that Whimsicott could be running include Flash, Cotton Spore, Switcheroo (this is illegal with Memento unfortunately) and Leech Seed, but for now I'm happy with the moves I'm running.

    EV-wise, 220 speed with Timid gives me enough speed to out-prioritise Tornadus and Thundurus with Taunt (this really only applies to Thundurus though as Tornadus prefers to just Hurricane me). 252 defence allows me to abuse Charm to its fullest. Whimsicott's hit taking ability is surprisingly good and in most cases it can get the opponent to -6 attack with ease. The rest go to HP.

    Bisharp was something of an experiment. I initially used Scizor and that was fine, but I've recently been troubled by Scizors lack of Rock resistance. Bisharp, on the other hand, covers Dragonites weaknesses perfectly, allowing me to PP stall via switching back and forth. I was surprised at how easily it can set up, especially with Whimsicott's support. Sucker Punch seems risky but it usually works. After I maximise my attack (which doesn't take long with Swords Dance compared to Dragon Dance), the opponent is put in a real checkmate situation. Sucker Punch just tears through everything lacking a resist (and even some that resist it just roll over and die). Low Sweep seems weak (I could be using Brick Break instead for instance), but it still hits hard after some attack boosts and the speed lowering side effect has been handy. Plus, Dark-Fighting give fantastic coverage, and Heracross and Toxicroak are going to die to Sucker Punch anyway. The only thing that sucks is when something like Spiritomb comes out, since it insists on spamming Will-O-Wisp even with a sub up which prevents Sucker Punch (and Low Sweep won't work obviously). Pressure doesn't help things either. I guess that's a good case for Iron Head. I used Air Balloon originally, but when I found out it popped when the opponent attacks a sub, I switched to Sitrus Berry for a free Substitute which has saved me a few times.

    The EVs aren't special. Just maximise attack and maximise overall defences (I got the spread from Smogon's Maximise Your Defence App because I'm rubbish at thinking of good defensive spreads).

    The Dragonite is Jumpmans. It is so good with Whimsicott Support and it is really hard for it to die. It is awesome if you manage to get a sub up and then recover to full health with Roost, because then Dragonite can keep Multiscale active until the sub breaks and it has to make a new one. It can also PP stall with ease. I did it so many times to things like Glaceon with Blizzard (paralysis and Memento help with this). In situations where I can't rely on misses or full paralysis, I can turn to Bisharp's resistances and just switch back and forth until they run out of PP.

    The EVs are similar to Jumpmans, but I put the extra EVs solely into speed. I noticed that a group of potential threats (namely Articuno 1 and 2, as well as Suicune 1,2 and 3) outpace neutral 0 speed Dragonite, which could be a problem if Stun Spore misses (I've had it miss 5 times in a row before). 52 speed gets her to 107, allowing it to sub before they attack. This is a fairly minor thing and I'm considering shifting them to Special Defence.

    Annoying pokemon to lead against include Clear Body and U-turn/Volt Switch pokemon who don't care about Charm or Memento (it especially sucks if Stun Spore misses). Actually, one pokemon that was annoying was Life Orb Probopass! Even after Memento, it still breaks Dragonite and Bisharp's subs. Plus, I can't PP stall it because it die to Life Orb recoil before it runs out (so I don't get many boosts in before the next thing comes out). I've tried using paralysis, but it never seems to activate for Probopass. I suppose I could just try kill it with Low Sweep, but it might have Sturdy and I don't want Bisharp to take an Earth Power without a sub (plus it's a waste of Whimsicott's hard work).

    There were some close calls. In one battle, I managed to get both Dragonite and Bisharp frozen by a Floatzel! I won because Dragonite thawed out just as Floatzel ran out of Ice Beam PP. Another close battle was where I was left with just my near dead Bisharp at 6+ attack with no sub. The last pokemon was Cobalion. I was pissed because I though I was about to lose (it was faster and 4x resisted Sucker Punch), but then it decided to Psych Up my attack boosts, and I OHKOed it with Low Sweep!

    I lost mainly due to a misplay in a game I should have won easily to be honest:

    Battle 187 vs. Clerk Anora

    I send out Whimsicott, Anora sends out Kingdra
    Whimsicott Stun Spores (Kingdra Paralyzed), Kingdra Rain Dances
    Whimsicotts Taunts, Kiingdra fully paralyzed
    Whimsicott Mementos, Kingdra fully paralyzed

    I send out Bisharp
    Bisharp Substitutes (127 hp), Kingdra fully paralyzed
    Bisharp Swords Dances, Kingdra Hydro Pumps (sub broken)
    Bisharp Substitutes (85 hp), Kingdra fully paralyzed
    Bisharp Swords Dances, Kingdra Rain Dances
    Bisharp Swords Dances, Kingdra Hydro Pumps (sub broken)
    Bisharp Sucker Punches, Kingdra dead

    Anora sends out Hydreigon
    I Sucker Punch, Hydreigon dead

    Anora sends out Weavile
    Weavile Fakes Out, Bisharp at 74 hp, recovers to 116 hp with Sitrus Berry, Bisharp flinches
    Weavile Protects, Bisharp Low Sweeps (no effect)
    Weavile Protects, Bisharp Low Sweeps (no effect)
    Weavile Ice Punches (83 hp, Bisharp frozen), Bisharp frozen solid
    Weavile Ice Punches (50 hp), Bisharp frozen solid
    Weavile Protects, Bisharp frozen solid
    Weavile Ice Punches, (19 hp), Bisharp frozen solid
    Bisharp frozen solid, Weavile Ice Punches, Bisharp dead

    I send out Dragonite
    Weavile Ice Punches (60 hp), Dragonite Substitutes (24 hp)
    Weavile Ice Punches (sub broken), Dragonite Roosts and recovers with Leftovers (132 hp)
    Weavile Ice Punches, Dragonite dead

    0-1

    Honestly why didn't I just Sucker Punch Weavile? It would have broken the Focus Sash it was holding, and even if Weavile froze it then Dragonite could have finished it off after surviving the first Ice Punch. That freeze (and lack of thawing) was bullshit though. Also the Whimsicott Taunt was pointless but that didn't matter.

    I don't mind though as I've achieved a streak much higher than I though I would. Now I can focus on Doubles and Multi.
  3. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    @skitz0phrenic: I did look into it but for the reason CD said jumpluff got the vote (and its one me fav pokes, so cute :p). And I thought it was to bulky i wanted something that would almost always faint first turn to gain the free switch in for togekiss.

    @CD: Na my lax is currently Bold lol, i know its wrong nature but wasnt going to breed a new one when i thought this team would be a gimic which wouldnt work lol, but now i know its got a chance i'm going to sort out a new lax. What nature would you recomend? Its first time using a snorlax lol, Unsure if i should go for a defencive nature but kinda tempted by adamant to boost my attack. any advice would be great :) and cheers for referencing your team been helpful :).

    @BM2010: I did look into using another support poke but think that puts way to much pressure on snorlax so think i'd rather a cleaner-up-a who if needs be could step up and do the business for the odd streak.

    @Mercury: Cheers for the advice on the item, that would work alot better so will defo use one :). And i think i will wack follow me on togekiss, for back up its a great idea, didnt even consider lax could flinch lol. and cracking streak mate, well done :). I no you mentioned lati as more of a support option but tempted to try him out in the fourth slot as an attacker, he covers lax fighting weakness with beautiful stab and works with quake and as you sugguest helping hand. Think i'l look into that possibility.

    @Atsync: While i'm at it, great streak mate :), looks an interesting team :)
  4. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    I think Adamant or Impish are both worth experimenting with. Adamant *might* be better because you are using Rockslide. I was using Return + EQ on my Diamond Tower streak, so Return pretty much KOs anything not resisted and even a handful that do, but Rockslide will not be OHKOing many of the levitators or grass types that you hit for neutral, so maybe extra power in Adamant might be good. Either way you probably want to max out Def with some HP and Attack.

    O yeah, on my streak I tried both Sitrus and Leftovers. Both are around the same (or didn't matter) in most battles.
  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    So, I posted a Whimsicott -> Moody Baton Pass Smeargle -> Stored Power Espeon subway team a while ago, and then I said it didn't really work out too well (I don't think I ever even posted how far I got, but it was definitely less than 70).

    This time around it's a little bit better so far, using a similar team idea. So far 98 with this team:

    1. Arbok / Timid / Intimidate @ Focus Sash
    - Scary Face / Switcheroo / Gastro Acid / Sunny Day*

    *Had Disable instead of Sunny Day for a while, but then decided that that was useless.

    2. Smeargle / Timid / Own Tempo @ Leftovers (Yes, NOT Moody)
    - Substitute / Acupressure / Spore / Baton Pass

    3. Espeon / Timid / Magic Bounce @ Sitrus Berry
    - Substitute / Calm Mind / Stored Power / Hidden Power Bug 70

    What happens:
    - Arbok's main job is to make sure that Smeargle can spore and set up safely.
    --> If opponent is faster than Smeargle, obviously use Scary Face.
    --> If opponent might have a Lum or Chesto (or Quick Claw / Brightpowder / Lax Incense), Switcheroo. (Life Orb or Flame Orb switcheroo also.)
    --> If opponent might have an ability that makes it hard for Smeargle to set up, Gastro Acid. Many times (so far anyway), Gastro Acid is used on Pressure pokemon, because Smeargle sometimes really needs all the Spore PPs. I thought I would use it on Clear Body pokemon too, but not nearly as often as I thought, because Smeargle actually outspeeds most Clear Body pokemon (only Tentacruel, I believe). Of course, if I can I would Gastro Acid potential Swift Swimmers/Chlorophyll/Sand Rush/Hydration/Leaf Guard pokemon. O yeah, Early Bird pokemon also.
    --> Last slot used to be Disable for about 2 sets of 7 after 49, but then Smeargle's need for Leftovers is so important that I figured if I encounter a permanent sand/hail lead, I'd be so screwed, so I decided on Sunny Day. (It was either Sun or Rain, but I figured Sun's less powerful). I actually have not had to use it just yet.

    - Smeargle's job is obviously to set up for Espeon to sweep. I try to fully set up whenever I can. So far, after 49 there's been 2 battles where I couldn't fully set up though a few were fairly close calls. Sometimes it really depends on luck.

    - Espeon's job is to sweep. A fully powered Stored Power does minimum 457% to a Calm 252/252 Blissey, 269% to Calm 252/252 Bronzong.

    Close Calls:
    1.
    Nidoqueen was the first time where I wasn't able to set up with Smeargle. How? Just luck:
    Battle (open)

    Turn 1. Spore #1. Sleep (Smeargle at 161 / 161 HP)
    Turn 2. Sub. Nidoqueen wakes up and breaks sub (131 / 161 after leftovers)
    Turn 3. Spore #2. Sleep (141/161)
    Turn 4. Sub. Wakes and breaks sub (111/161)
    Turn 5. Spore #3. Sleep (121/161)
    Turn 6. Sub. Wakes and breaks sub (91/161)
    Turn 7. Spore #4. Sleep (101/161)
    Turn 8. Sub. Wakes and breaks sub (71/161)
    Turn 9. Spore #5. Sleep (81/161)
    Turn 10. Sub. Wakes and breaks sub (51/161)
    Turn 11. Spore #6. Sleep (61/161)
    Turn 12. Sub. Wakes and breaks sub (31/161)
    Turn 13. Spore #7. Sleep (41/161)
    Turn 14. Sub (down to 1 HP). Wakes and breaks sub (11/161)
    Turn 15. Spore #8. Sleep (21/161) ... not enough to sub anymore.
    Turn 16. Acupressure (not evasion boost). Nidoqueen wakes and KOs.

    So yeah, just 8 one turn sleeps in a row. My bad luck was over after those turns though:
    Turn 17. Espeon in and Calm Mind. Sludge Bomb (no crit, no poison)
    Turn 18. Calm Mind. Sludge Bomb (no crit, no poison)
    Turn 19. Sub. Sludge Bomb.
    Turn 20. Calm Mind. Sludge Bomb breaks sub.
    Turn 21. Sub. Sludge Bomb.
    Turn 22. Calm Mind. Sludge Bomb.
    Turn 23-25. Stored Power KOs Nidoqueen and the other 2 pokemon.


    2. Second time was actually battle #98. I knew a fast Taunt was going to be a problem, but yah, I didn't really have a good way around it.
    Battle (open)

    Turn 1. Gengar Taunt. Arbok cannot use Scary Face.
    Turn 2. Switch to Smeargle. Gengar Shadow Ball no damage.
    Turn 3. Switch to Arbok. Focus Blast.
    Turn 4. Gengar Taunt. Arbok cannot use Scary Face.
    Turn 5. Switch to Smeargle. Shadow Ball no damage.
    Turn 6. Switch to Arbok. Focus Blast.
    Turn 7. Shadow Ball KO. (Does not look good...)
    Turn 8. Focus Blast MISS. Spore.
    Turn 9. Sleep. Sub.
    Turn 10. Wakes up Focus Blast. Acupressure (forgot what boost I got, not Evasion).
    Turn 11. Focus Blast miss. Spore.
    Turn 12. Sleep. Sub.
    Turn 13. Wakes Up Focus Blast miss. Acupressure (forgot what boost).
    Turn 14. Taunt. Cannot use Spore.
    Turn 15. Struggle. Counter (did not break sub).
    Turn 16. Struggle. Counter (did not break sub). Taunt ends.
    Turn 17. Taunt. Cannot Spore.
    Turn 18. Switch to Espeon. Counter.
    Turn 19. Switch to Smeargle. Shadow Ball.
    Turn 20. Switch to Espeon. Taunt bounced back to Gengar.
    Turn 21. Switch to Smeargle. Shadow Ball.
    Turn 22. Smeargle Spore. Sleep.
    Turn 23. Sleep Acupressure (not speed or evasion boost)
    Turn 24. Wake up Taunt. Cannot Acupressure.
    Turn 25. Switch to Espeon. Counter.
    Turn 26. Switch to Smeargle. Shadow Ball.
    Turn 27. Switch to Espeon. Taunt Bounce back.
    ... Repeat 21 to 27 until no more Shadow Balls.
    Turn N minus 8. Espeon Sub. Taunt Bounce Back.
    Turn N minus 7. Espeon Calm Mind. Counter.
    Turn N minus 6. Espeon Calm Mind. Counter.
    Turn N minus 5. Espeon Calm Mind. Counter.
    Turn N minus 4. Espeon Calm Mind. Counter.
    Turn N minus 3. Espeon Calm Mind. Struggle.
    Turn N minus 2. Espeon Stored Power KO.
    Turn N minus 1. Espeon Stored Power KO.
    Turn N. Espeon Stored Power KO.

    I might have remembered some turns wrong, but yeah, that battle took like 25 mins.


    Other than taunt, I was thinking priority moves might prevent Smeargle from setting up too, if it's low enough in health from Subs. That has not happened yet.

    EDIT: I decided on Arbok, mainly because it was the only pokemon that can learn Gastro Acid + Scary Face/Speed lowering move, other than Shuckle (Gastro Acid + String Shot). Intimidate was just a bonus. Shuckle does have cool moves like Power Split and Flash, and Knock Off is basically equivalent to Switceroo, and it also has Sturdy, but yeah, I didn't like how String Shot's only 95% accurate and only lowers speed one stage. Shuckle's slow speed doesn't help the cause either. Arbok being able to outspeed even Scarf Manectric after a Scary Face is good because it basically (almost) guarantees Arbok being able to Scary Face + one other move, whereas Shuckle might potentially get OHKO'd by a moldbreaker crit, but holding a sash for like 2 pokemon in the subway is sort of dumb.

    Using Shuckle I'd probably use Lum or Mental Herb. Maybe Lum with Struggle Bug, so it can deal with special attacking taunters at least.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Arbok? Love it!

    I was gonna say that Whimsicott is better at using that moveset because it learns all of Arbok's moves (Cotton Spore/Switcheroo/Worry Seed/Sunny Day) too, but then I realised that Worry Seed and Switcheroo are illegal together (Switcheroo is illegal with pretty much everything :/)

    Have you considered using Lopunny instead? It can run something similar to Arbok's set: Thunder Wave/Switcheroo/Entrainment/Sunny Day. It has a higher speed and you could also eliminate both the opponent's ability and item in one swoop using Entrainment to give them Klutz (actually that would eliminate the need to use Switcheroo if you're just using it to get rid of opponent's items). On the other hand, Klutz would prevent you from using Focus Sash, but its speed helps that issue somewhat I think.

    Chimecho can run the same thing using Trick instead of Switcheroo (I doubt it would be better than Lopunny though).

    EDIT: Oh right Thunder Wave would prevent Spore duh. It could use Low Sweep instead but that's stopped by Ghosts.
  7. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Yeah Thunderwave would prevent spore, as would Worry Seed, which was why I didn't use Whimsicott either. That's why the move has to be Gastro Acid (or Entrainment or Simple Beam, but... from what I recall, none of them learn speed lowering moves, or at least not as reliable or good as cotton spore / scary face).

    If I were to use Lopunny, I would use Cute Charm, because Klutz would prevent Lopunny from using her focus sash too, so I'd always lose to Jolly Infernape. And yeah, more importantly, Low Sweep is a bit too unreliable.

    Too bad Dusknoir doesn't learn Scary Face... Or else that might be good too, like maybe a speedy Dusknoir with Scary Face / Skill Swap / Memento or something like that, heh, but its face isn't scary enough so o well.

    IIRC, there are some psychic/ghost pokemon that can learn Skill Swap and Icy Wind from Gen IV, but... yeah, Scary Face / Cotton Spore lowering speed 2 stages with 100% accuracy just wins over Icy Wind (or Shuckle's String Shot) with 95% accuracy and only lowering one stage.

    EDIT: Lol oh, Dusknoir is one of those that learn Icy Wind and Skill Swap.
  8. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Yeah you're right. Leavanny is the only one who can use Entrainment and lower speed but String Shot sucks and it can't swap items...

    Actually Cofagrigus has Scary Face and Memento lol. It's too slow, it can't swap items and has no Skill Swap (or ability changing move) though. I suppose it gets Power Split to maybe try and weaken the opponent enough to allow Smeargle to set up (its offences are probably just shit enough to pull it off if you give it 0 IVs and a sp. att. lowering nature, especially if you put Memento on top of that). I guess it could use Mummy to change the opponents ability but that's useless against non-contact moves...

    EDIT: It gets Thief to remove items? Oh who am I kidding Cofagrigus sucks haha.
  9. ashez

    ashez

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    Everytime i click on this forum my pc cashes :S extremely strange lol works fine rest site :S

    anyway back on topic, well done CD you've been on about using arbok for as long as i can remember! glad you finally got one/it working :).
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I did think about using Cofagrigus as a leading crippler before, since Mummy might make things interesting (did not think at all of using it for this team idea though). My concern with Power Split is that Cofagrigus's stats are too high for that to work well enough. (55 Attack / 90 SpA stats for a SpA hindering nature or 49 / 100 for Attack hindering... Power Split might not really be worth a move slot) And then it's slow.

    Anyway, uh, I actually lost with 104 streak lol. VS Flame Orb Throh lead with Sash Accelgor as last pokemon.

    I won't do a turn by turn thing. Basically the synopsis of what happened:
    - Throh protected first turn, so I cannot Switcheroo in time. Throh is burnt, so my obvious next turn's move is to Gastro Acid so make sure that its attack is cut in half in case it might have Guts.
    - After that though I did not really have much of a strategy. Throh has EQ, so I did not think waiting for Arbok to die was a good thing, so I switch to Smeargle in hope that maybe I can stall a bit with sub, and then get Arbok back in to Scary Face the 2nd pokemon, or at the least Arbok can come back in on the Storm Throw and Intimidate a bit more, but Smeargle takes a crit EQ and cannot sub anymore (cool that Smeargle survived burn crit EQ I guess lol).
    - Long story short I lacked a good way of dealing with the burnt Throh. I intimidated Throh once more before both smeargle and Arbok fainted and managed to get Espeon to a bit less than half health with a sub and +3/+3 (sitrus activated already), which might be sufficient to win. Stored Power KO'd 2nd opponent fine.
    - Sash Accelgor last pokemon means I lost since it outsped and Bug Buzz first turn to break my sub as I Stored Power to its sash while the 2nd Bug Buzz KOs.

    I'm thinking about whether or not I should keep using Espeon now actually, haha. I mean, plenty of pokemon can sweep at +6 everything. Espeon has stored power for awesome 450% minimum to Blissey and probably 800% minimum to everything else, but 100% is usually enough. I might be better off with something else more defensive like a CM Latias/Suicune or Bulk Up something that can stall out things in case of things like Flame Orb first turn activation. Of course, I would lose out on Magic Bounce (unless I use a Xatu).

    I'll see.
  11. ashez

    ashez

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    Youve prob concidered it but how about replace espeon with Sigilyph? could run same set or go for flying stab, but you do miss out on taunt protection, but offeres a switch in for ground and fighting attacks worrying your set up pokes, anywhoo was just a thought lol
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Hm, I considered Xatu before but not Sigilyph. Magic Guard is certainly not a bad ability to have. I might try it out just because I've never used a Sigilyph before. I almost want to try Mono Air Slash with Roost holding Life Orb (CM/Sub/Roost/Air Slash) just so it's not running the exact same set as Espeon.

    Let's see... with Timid Life Orb +6 Air Slash, still almost guaranteed 2HKO vs all the Blisseys in Subway. Good chance to 3HKO the Rest Bastiodon. Heh I dunno. Stored Power will be better damage for sure, but WILL need HP Bug (or Air Slash) as secondary move for the dark types. Actually, yeah, HP Bug probably because with Air Slash it'll be a hard battle against Ttar. Sorry talking to myself.

    EDIT: On a related note,... Nah, I'll try something different, not Stored Power and not Air Slash. Stored Power is too boost reliant and air slash kind of sucks too much vs rock types and steel types and rock/steel types. and rock types with sandstream.
  13. EvilMario

    EvilMario

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    I've been having a bunch of fun with Super Doubles Trick Room, as there seems to be very few AI teams that 'know what to do' once Trick Room is up. Using SpDef Amoonguss (Rage Powder, Spore, Protect, Giga Drain) and Reuniclus to setup Trick Room and sweep. Depending on what I'm facing, I could use almost any move with Amoonguss and Reuniclus only fails to setup Trick Room if I mispredict.

    I've been using Escavalier and (filler, but Snorlax right now, Crawdaunt, or Chandelure later) as my back up sweepers. Even if Trick Room runs out by the time my fourth Pokemon has to come out, it's usually 2v1. Most of the time, I won't lose a Pokemon with the two leads natural bulk and Spore spam.

    I haven't read the thread yet for strategies, but I'm looking forward to trying out a bunch of teams. Doubles Subway is a lot more entertaining for me over Singles.
  14. ashez

    ashez

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    really thought you would av thought about it lol, thought you would have noticed something i missed haha. But yh ttar could be problematic, so think HP bug better option.

    I like doubles more than singles too :)

    Edit: Sorted out a adamant lax (same spread as CDs) and working great :), but running into some problems, think im going to replace AA on jump with worry seed to deal with levitators, claydol and bronzong especially. Lost battle 21 but wasnt taking it to seriously, a lead dragonite and garchomp ruined me, came down to my 12hp togekiss vs full hp licki, they decided to curse instead of attack and rest back up, was was AS hoping for crit and flinches but they never came (missed 4 in row). Tried out a latias as 4th member and did ok but was only needed 3 battles, and hate the obvious ice weakness. Going to try work out member tomo.
  15. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I had been thinking about running a Stored Power team but now that Chinese Dood proved it viable, I might take it on (trying not to steal his ideas). But just as a reference, what EVs did you use?
  16. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    For that team... IVs and EVs (nothing special really):

    Arbok / Timid
    IVs: 31 / x / 31 / x / 31 / 31
    EVs: 188 HP 68 Def 252 Speed
    Level 50 Stats: 159 / ? / 98 / ? / 99 / 145
    Notes:
    - 159 HP so that sand/hail damage rounds down
    - similar defenses, sp Def higher for vs-ing Download Porygon family
    - max speed for going first

    Smeargle / Timid
    IVs: 31 / ? / 31 / ? / 31 / 31
    EVs: 244 HP 12 Def 252 Speed
    Level 50 Stats: 161 / ? / 57 / ? / 65 / 139
    Notes:
    - 161 HP for leftovers + 1 (so that, with spore, can sub 8 times with leftovers)
    - max speed ... to spore
    - the rest into weaker defense

    Espeon / Timid
    IVs: 31 / ? / 30 / 31 / 30 / 31
    EVs: 4 HP 252 SpA 252 Speed
    Level 50 Stats: 141 / ? / 80 / 182 / 115 / 178
    Notes: ... just offensive sweeper EVs


    On a totally unrelated note, today I bred this:
    Stoutland / Jolly / Intimidate @ Focus Sash
    IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 2 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP 4 Sp Def 252 Speed (Yes I should have done 244 HP so sand/hail rounds down too, but forgot about it)
    Moves: Sand-Attack / Charm / Thunderwave / Snarl

    Just trying this puppy out as a crippler. Any suggestions on which set up sweeper to try out?

    Right now I'm just using CM Latias and SD Terrakion, just because... I've used CM Suicune way too much and wanted another CMer, and then I also wanted a physical attacker and haven't tried out Terrakion a whole lot yet.
    EDIT: Nevermind, trying out Cobalion / Metagross (Hone Claws / Agility / Sub / Meteor Mash) replacing Terrakion... dragon resist much appreciated.
  17. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

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    I thought Snarl wasn't out yet
  18. Shinyweavile

    Shinyweavile

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    Zoroark with snarl WAS released, and because it is a TM it can be bred to any pokemon in the ground egg group.
  19. NoCheese

    NoCheese Clean ALL the things!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Lengthened my streak with Garchomp/Suicune/Ferrothorn, this time losing at 336.

    For reference, my team and its strategy are here:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3934757&postcount=1009

    Only difference is that I've re-eved Suicune ever so slightly, dropping 2 points in HP for 2 points in speed. Suicune is now

    Stats: 205/74/181/110/134/107
    IVs: 31/7/28/31/29/30
    EVs: 236/0/252/0/0/20

    105 speed left Suicune in a speed tie with a bunch of pokes. Speed ties are terrible for Substitute pokes like Suicune, as you can't tell when you'll need to resub, and risk getting caught without a sub as the opponent attacks twice in a row: second on one turn and first on the next. Had a close call against Suicune 1 from this exact situation, and resolved to fix it. The adjusted stats work very nicely, as nothing has a 107 speed in the subway, and at 205 HP, Suicune still makes 51 point subs, the same size made at 207 HP.

    How I lost:

    I foolishly clicked through after losing and so didn't save the video, but here's the basic run-down.

    Psychic Longo, with Claydol/Exeggutor/Froslass

    I switch to Ferrothorn, hoping to set up on Claydol. It quakes, critical hitting. Second turn it quakes again, also critical hitting. Ferrothorn down.

    I bring in Suicune, and Substitute. Claydol explodes, destroying the sub.

    Exeggutor comes out. I switch to Garchomp, who eats a Wood Hammer.

    Next turn, Garchomp faints it with Outrage.

    In comes Froslass, which faints Garchomp with Blizzard.

    I bring in Suicune. Froslass leads off with Shadow Ball, which crits and drops my special defense. Ouch. Thankfully, I had chosen to rest immediately, and the Lum Berry awakens me. Unfortunately, with no Calm Minds under my belt and the special defense dropped, I can't stall him out when the next Shadow Ball also drops my special defense. So it goes.

    Proof:
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/508/img0388ps.jpg/
  20. Groombridge

    Groombridge

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    That's a great record - but damn, that's some brutal hax. Sometimes it really seems like the AI decides that you've gone far enough. I reiterate something I said back in the DPP Tower thread: if you use Calm Mind enough times, it rubs off on you, and you reflect on hax losses with a relaxed, Tralfamadorian sense of calm. That's why so many of the top players use it.*

    * Probably
  21. poopoop

    poopoop

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    did anyone try a Zoroark in the subway? how did it do?
  22. Robcore™

    Robcore™

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    This thing is really starting to annoy me now, starting to see daft things appear whenever I get to a decent streak. So far I've hit 47 with Archeops/Suicune/Latios which was undone by Archeops missing a Acrobatics on Driftblim, before Empoleon hit three times with Blizzard on my Suicune with the final one a critical hit.

    Back to using ol' faithful in the Battle environment me thinks, Stealth/Yawn/Memento Uxie onto Subsitute/Dance/Punch/Break Scizor, with Suicune in reserve to protect me if Scizor doesn't get the job done.
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I used a set of Night Daze/Nasty Plot/Memento/Taunt. Half crippler, half sweeper. Its main purpose was to Taunt and then Memento to allow something else to sweep. If the opponent lead with a Psychic-type (which would continue to spam Psychic even when it didn't work), I would take the opportunity to Nasty Plot and Sweep with Night Daze. It worked ok but it was a bit outclassed by other cripplers (I rarely had the opportunity to Nasty Plot safely).

    I suppose you could go for a full crippling Zoroark using Taunt/Memento/Scary Face/Snarl but that has very little merit over somthing like Whimsicott (Snarl is interesting though if you have access to it).

    I'd be intruiged to try out a straight Nasty Plot lead. Something like Dark Pulse/Flamethrower/Nasty Plot/Taunt with the right teammate in back maybe. Haven't tested this before though so I don't know.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, I just reached 70 wins with my new doubles team. I will post it when I lose. One of my team members will probably surprise some people.
  24. Robcore™

    Robcore™

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    Beaten after 27 battles by a team of Starmie/Espeon/Empoleon. Starmie critical'd my Uxie as it Yawned, survived with a slither of HP after I SD'd and Bullet Punched, and then Espeon survived a +3 Scald to Grass Knot me, critical style.

    I am, I admit, getting very, very frustrated with it this time around.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Just completed an 84 win streak on the super doubles line. Here's the team:

    [​IMG]

    Garchomp @ life orb
    Jolly
    ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    evs: 0/252/0/0/4/252
    stats: 183/182/115/90/106/169
    Sand Veil

    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    Dragon Claw
    Protect

    [​IMG]

    Emolga @ focus sash
    Timid
    IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 6/0/0/252/0/252
    Stats: 131/85/80/127/80/170
    Static

    Discharge
    Tail Whip
    Light Screen
    Taunt

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ steel gem
    Adamant
    IVs:31/31/31/8/31/31
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/0/6
    Stats: 177/200/120/57/100/86
    Techician

    Bullet Punch
    Bug Bite
    Superpower
    Protect

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ leftovers
    Modest
    IVs: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    EVs: 236/0/4/248/0/20
    Stats: 155/76/128/171/127/109
    Levitate

    Thunderbolt
    Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power [Grass]
    Protect

    Yeah that's right I'm using Emolga. Why you might ask?

    Well, after I recorded my 186 win singles streak, I thought I would try get a good streak for doubles too. I decided that my rain team was a good place to start. So I started a streak with it... AND I WAS BORED OUT OF MY MIND! Honestly, for me most of the battles end up being Surf, Surf, Surf... By the time I got to 7 wins I just stopped enjoying it and ended up losing somewhere during my second set of 7 (this was kind of on purpose, since I knew how to act but was too lazy to switch my Politoed out of the obvious Choice Scarf Torterra). I might go back to my rain team when I feel more motivated, but for now I knew I needed to come up with a different kind of team. I tried looking through the records on the OP for some inspiration but nothing really stood out for me.

    So I decided that it would be fun to try make a team involving my favourite 5th gen pokemon, Emolga! I mean, who can resist that smile?

    I went to serebii and checked out what Emolga had going for it. Well, obviously its stats are awful! 55/60/60 defences are just terribad, and 75/75 offences aren't much better. However, 103 speed is pretty cool. It also has a great typing and lots of interesting moves, including Taunt, Thunder Wave, Charm, Light Screen and Tail Whip. I figured it would be best to use it as a support pokemon.

    Of course, I could be using Thundurus or Zapdos, but I currently don't have access to good ones. Anyway, Thundurus lacks Light Screen, Zapdos lacks Taunt, and (most importantly) both lack Tail Whip, which essential acts like a Helping Hand that sticks with the opponent and can be stacked (although it lacks priority). Discharge is incredibly weak coming from 127 special attack, but it breaks Sturdy and Focus Sash and has a nice 30% paralysis rate. Light Screen is the most expendable move, so I guess Charm could be a good replacement (I was turned off by the fact it is single-target though).

    Garchomp is a pretty obvious choice, but it works well enough. Conveniently, Emolga outspeeds it by a single point so it can get the Tail Whip in before it attacks. The Garchomp-Emolga lead combo has an obvious Ice weakness, so Scizor was used (it is possibly the best general check to hail ever). Rotom-W resists Ice and deals with Water very well (many waters have Ice attacks, and it does better at dealing with Water/Ice types than Scizor).

    I can't really think of any specific counters to this team. I had some trouble with Legendary teams, but that was mainly because of hax (flinched by Thundurus' Dark Pulse, missing 2 Rock Slides in a row on Zapdos, etc.). Fast offensive leads are troublesome I guess, though I usually managed with clever switching and Protect uses.

    How I Lost

    Battle 85 vs. Ace Trainer Dylan (Drimblim, Infernape, Alakazam, Manectric)

    I send out Garchomp and Emolga, Dylan sends out Drifblim and Infernape
    Infernape Flare Blitz's Emolga to Focus Sash, Emolga Tail Whip, Garchomp Rock Slide (both survive in the red), Drifblim Hypnosis's Garchomp to sleep.
    Drifblim eats Custap Berry and kills Emolga with Shadow Ball, Infernape Flare Blitz Garchomp to 84 hp and dies to recoil, Garchomp sleeps.

    Dylan sends out Alakazam, I send out Rotom-W
    Drifblim Destiny Bonds, Alakazam Psychics Garchomp to death, Rotom-W Thunderbolts Drifblim to death, Rotom-W dies to Destiny Bond

    I send out Scizor, Dylan sends out Manectric
    Scizor protects, Manectric Overheats, Alakazam Psychics (neither have an effect)
    Scizor Bullet Punchs Manectric to 60%, Scizor dies to Overheat

    0-2

    Man I plays badly against that Drifblim, completely overlooking Custap Berry and Unburden. It might have been better if I Taunted or Discharged with Emolga at the start because then Drifblim might have died to Rock Slide (or it wouldn't have slept Garchomp). Also, I should have switched to Scizor against Alakazam's Psychic. I thought it was going to Trick me as that's how they've always acted to far. Even if it did trick, being locked into Bullet Punch wouldn't have been so bad really. It sucks how the last pokemon was Overheat Manectric though because Scizor would have beaten a choice-locked Alakazam, but that's the subway for you.

    Oh well. At least I managed to get an awesome but really bad pokemon to work in the subway. Now I have to think of something else.

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