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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    Somehow I only just found this thread... and I'm glad to see both Peterko and Jumpman are still doing their thing.

    However, I may not even bother with the Subway, which is surprising when you consider the 1000s of hours I wasted on the Tower in Pearl, Platinum and HeartGold. My best in Platinum was a mere 646, only about a quarter of the legendary duo's record.

    (Legendary duo = Peterko and Jumpman; Peterko is exclusive to Pokemon White, while Jumpman is in Black)

    I did a streak of 77 using my completely unchanged 646 team from Platinum:

    1. Cresselia ~ Aether
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP, 230 Speed, 28 Defense
    IVs: 31-x-31-27-31-31
    Level 50 Stats: 227-73-158-93-150-134
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flash
    - Light Screen

    2. Salamence (shiny) ~ Dargon
    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Def
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    Level 50 Stats: 170-205-100-117-101-152
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute

    3. Registeel ~ HardNess
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP, 140 Defense, 100 Attack, 16 Sp. Defense
    IVs: 31-31-31-x-30-31
    Level 50 Stats: 187-108-188-79-189-70
    - Iron Head
    - Substitute
    - Curse
    - Amnesia

    ... it just felt a bit 'meh' for unknown reasons. I took a while to adjust to the actual switching that the AI does if locked into non-attacking moves. I'm surprised at how effective Registeel still is, despite the absurd power level of many new 5th-gen threats.

    Anyway, not sure if you'll bother to add that practice streak to the list (it was 77), I'm also unsure if I'll bother to try and place high on the list... just doesn't seem as fun as 4th-gen was.
  2. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    I don't understand how you people get far in the Subway.. I use a decent team and I always lose at around 14-21 :L
  3. jle1076

    jle1076

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    @ Dimentio if you dont trick an Umbreon into a scarf, you lose to it because you have no special attacks at all. Youre not even using toxic
  4. Arkadu

    Arkadu

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    35
    I suppose it could have been a Zoroark, but I swear I 2HKO all of his pokes, so wouldn't that have broken Illusion?
  5. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    So lost again with the same team at 206 and of course... to a hail team.
    I aimed for the 200 but I think i can go on to 300 and more. Probably the most annoying mons are Sand Veil Gliscor & Garchomp and fighting types with Ground resistance.

    Just love to play in the sand with this team :)

    Super Double

    Despotar @ Balloon
    Sandstorm
    Adamant
    252 HP, 252 Att
    Lvl 50 stats: 200-204-121-100-110-85
    Crunch
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Protect

    Excadrill @ Focus Sash
    Sand Rush
    Adamant
    82 HP, 252 Att, 176 Speed
    Lvl 50 stats: 191-204-68-57-82-130
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    X-Scissor
    Protect

    Garchomp @ Life Orb
    Sand Veil
    Jolly
    252 Att, 252 Spe
    Lvl 50 stats: 183-181-111-77-94-165
    Earthquake
    Dragon Claw
    Fire Blast
    Protect

    Eelektross @ Leftovers
    Levitate
    Modest
    Lvl 50 stats: 192-118-96-171-100-64
    252 HP, 252 SpA
    Thunderbolt
    Flamethrower
    Grass Knot
    Discharge

    http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/hnjq-4-jpg-rc.html

    I also would like to have some opinions on a possible Stoutland set i thought about:

    Stoutland @ Life Orb
    Sand Rush
    Adamant
    252 Att, 252 Spe
    Return
    Wild Bolt/ Fire Fang
    Ice Fang
    Protect

    Could this work?

    Now I´m going to work on my Singels streak, all I´ve got to say so far is that the AI does really wierd things to my Rotom-W,Ferrothorn,Dragonite Trick team...
  6. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    I've used that Stoutland in Random Matchup (but with 252HP instead of Speed, Sand Rush makes him fast enough already), it's pretty good but it can't OHKO alot of things.
  7. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    That´s what I expected, lack of power... seems not worthy enough to replace Garchomp for a "speed up".
    To Outspeed everything in the Subway it sadly needs nearly all speed EV´s (240 with 31 IV´s, 252 to outspeed my own Excadrill)
  8. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    You won't need to outspeed everything in the subway, you'll need to outspeed everything that is a threat (most really high speed choice scarf pokes don't pose a large threat. Stoutland isn't necessarily forced into a 252 speed investment.
    Congrats on the streak, looks a pretty solid doubles team.

    Can I ask for the thought process behind Eelektross? I know it's a nice perk to have no weaknesses and it grants the Earthquake & discharge freedom, but surely something else could suffice? I can't say for certain but perhaps if you have troubles with anything there are probably some better adapted "counters" to those problems whilst maintaining the core idea behind the team. Eelektross would still take damage from SS and it doesn't hit that hard or that fast, I'd imagine there's often problems of missing out a few critical OHKOs that a pokemon like Latios may score. I may be wrong, I suppose the summarised question would be is Eelektross' bad stats and SS weakness worth the benefit of Eq/ discharge?
    But even in that instance, I'd still be more tempted by Zapdos*. Hail may be a problem but ice- pokemon are easily dealable with 2 very hard hitting rock slides, and if the hail itself is a problem then one can always play around that by switching out Tyranitar to consolidate Sandstorm.

    * Zapdos may not be the best example (terrible attacking movepool), but it can still get flash (flash + Sand veil troll ftw) and other support moves. Zapdos is also a lot more bulky with the way the AI interprets roost.

    I'm not criticising as such, I just want to know some of your ideas behind choosing Eelektross (a pokemon I probably wouldn't have thought of)?
  9. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Yeah Eelektross, why use something nobody uses :D
    You already figured out the Discharge& Earthquake freedom, which was one of the main points for choosing it.I agree Zapdos could do this as well, maybe even better cause of higher SpA. The movepool isn´t really bad, in fact it´s nearly the same: Heatwave,Thunderbold,Discharge + Hp:Ice/Grass. And here the problem starts, I haven´t got one with good IV´s and don´t wanted to start FireRed or SoulSilver again. Just some lazyness on my side. If I could get my hands on a flawless HP:Ice Zapdos (nope, no GTS for me -.- ) I may have never thought about Eelektross.

    So I began to look after some Eq-immune Special Attacker which is easily available and found it.
    The no weaknesses part really makes prediction a lot easier because the AI seems to always want to attack with SE moves which I can protect and gain a free turn for Eelektross.
    The low speed helps a lot against Trickroom teams which caused trouble for Garchomp and Excadrill.

    Hail teams are really the greatest problem for the team. Not the hail itself, but everything together. I either need to sacrifice something to get the sand back up and put me on a 3:4 or stay in and get a 3:3 or a 4:3.
    My first big streak ended because I sacrifced the wrong mon ( and to Quick Claw hax, but it wouldn´t have mattered if I saved the right mon), the second streak ended because I stayed in and hail was up for double 100% Blizzards...
    So it´s a bit difficult.

    I don´t think you´re criticising, it´s nice to get some interest :D
  10. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    I must admit I didn't consider trickroom problems (I've had no doubles experience so far in B/W), although I suppose diversity is especially important to maintain in doubles. Zapdos probably wasn't the greatest suggestion, I do like the Eelektross. Perhaps it may be viable to substitute flash cannon for grass knot? Grass knot's real power is with the bulky pokemon which I wouldn't imagine cause that much of a problem, and without the 100 or 120 power it loses efficiency, especially when there's other opinions available. U-turn or volt change could also be interesting (although not really recommended).

    I was actually going to suggest rotom (heat form) it has good special attack, it is resistant to ice- moves, it has decent sp. def. It also could go either low or high speed, low speed achieving a lot more bulk which may really help in sticky situations. And it's got the discharge/ Eq perk.

    However, looking at your losses some more experience and a bit more luck is all that is required to go further. My main point is that whatever move or niche that you've come up with on paper isn't really being used can be changed easily, because the basis of a SS team really lends itself to various diversifications. Perhaps there's a better way to abuse the Sp. Def boost (Terrakion could be interesting). Anyway, good job
  11. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,261
    Okay, seriously?

    Has anyone else had troubles with their games freezing in Subway? It froze yesterday and today both around 40 battles in and this is total bullshit. It would be really nice if I could stop getting cheated out of getting a streak
  12. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    Perhaps it's your DS? If you're sure that it isn't, then would you care to elaborate?
  13. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,261
    It's one of a few things:
    A) 350+ hours on the cartridge
    B) Switching DS units often
    C) I'm playing on one of two original DS units because all I have aside from that is the 3DS, and they don't sell cases for the 3DS yet so I refuse to take it in public

    If anyone else is suffering from their game freezing at random points in time, feedback would help
  14. Virizion

    Virizion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    I have about 550 hours on my Black, and it doesn't freeze randomly.

    And what's wrong with the 3DS? I don't have one (no good games), but I haven't heard many complaints about it thus far.
  15. twash

    twash
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,330
    My old DSLite had problems with one of the contacts to cartridges due to wear, and it got worse and worse until I had to put the cartridge in several times and reboot the DS before it would even recognize the game. And when it did recognize the game, I then often had problems with random freezing, saving errors, and so on. Obviously I'm no expert, but your issue sounds similar to how mine was at the beginning.

    Anyway, I'm struggling to break 60 battles in Super Singles. I've gotten close a few times, but get "unlucky" quite often and the streak just ends. I'm using Spiritomb/Flygon/Rotom-W, I might post it in more detail if I can get up around the 100 mark (I think the team can, it's just a case of me using the list more and not winging it so much lol... which is why I can't really complain about luck I guess).
  16. mattj

    mattj blatant Nintendo fanboy

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,637
    because it's large (open)
    I finally broke 50 (53) with a VGC '11 team in the Super Doubles Train! Yeah, yeah, it's easy to do with Latios / Tyranitar / Garchomp / Salamence / etc, but it's frigging hard with Unovamonsonly.

    The team (and a decent VGC '11 team too):

    Thundurus
    "*Zephos*"
    [​IMG]
    Prankster
    Timid
    31/2/30/31/31/31
    4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Discharge, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, Volt Change
    Choice Specs

    Krookodile
    "Sale"
    [​IMG]
    Intimidate
    Jolly
    31/31/31/X/31/31
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Earthquake, Crunch, Rock Slide, Dragon Claw
    Choice Band

    Tornadus
    "Genie"
    [​IMG]
    Prankster
    Jolly
    31/31/31/X/31/31
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Tailwind, Acrobat, Swagger, Protect
    Flight Jewel

    Conkeldurr
    "Hinox"
    [​IMG]
    Guts
    Adamant
    31/31/31/X/31/31
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Superpower, Rock Slide, Mach Punch, Protect
    Flame Orb

    The team is your standard EQ / Discharge lead with Tailwind / Priority in the back. Unfortunately, the subway doesn't completely mirror VGC, so this team is a bit awkward and stiff, but it's solid enough. It works better when you can bring 6 choose 4 (Mienshao and Druddigon).

    I actually didn't eventually lose to hax. I thought my Jolly, Banded Krookodile could 1HKO a Musharna to prevent it setting up Trick Room. Don't know if I got a crazy low dice roll or what, but it lived and set up TR. Figured I could KO it's couple of HP with Conkeldurr's Guts-Boosted Mach Punch. Nope. GG. Gotta remember that. <<< Which is why the Subway isn't a terrible place to practice when you don't have wifi available. Either way, I'd rather die to a stupid move on my part, that I can learn from and change in the future, than to lose to hax, which I can neither control nor prepare for.

    If I could work trick room in there (possibly Whimsicott instead of Tornadus?) I could see this team hitting 100, and possibly doing well in VGC '11.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Super Doubles Boss Vid: 66-52221-99456
  17. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    You really undererstimate the power of Grass knot. The bulky pokemon which are hit for SE aren´t dangerous but annoying (for example Swampert,Hippo), also a lot of them carry Curse and than they get dangerous.
    The Grass/Stab-Elektro/Fire coverage works great with the rest of the team and only Eelektross gets it without Hidden Power. Currently I think about dropping Thunderbolt or Discharge for Thunderwave. Flashcannon isn´t needed I hurt Ice enough with Fire and Ice/Waters with Electric.
    Each Rotom form has one disadvantage compared to Eelektross: Either the Sp.A drop (Leaf Storm, Overheat) or Accuracy ( Hydro Pump, Blizzard) and Air Slash just sucks :P
    If it still had his Ghost type it would be a great switch in for the Fighting attacks thrown at my starters.
    The Genies seem to be great for a the team: Thunderus could eventually work like a less bulkier Zapdos, but of course I have a Jolly one with perfekt SpA and crappy Att IV´s, Landorus similar to Garchomp and Tornadus could hax around with the 100% accurate Hurricane.

    Maybe it´s just me, but I only see Zapdos doing the needed job better than the electric eel.
  18. fabsmg68

    fabsmg68

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    This is my team for Double battles :

    Staraptor@choice scarf
    Reckless
    Adamant
    28/31/26/xx/31/31
    252 Speed
    252 atk
    6 HP
    Brave bird
    Double edge
    Close combat
    U-turn

    Garchomp@yatche berry
    Sand Veil
    Jolly
    17/31/31/xx/31/31
    252 Speed
    252 Atk
    6 HP
    Dragon Claw
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Swords Dance

    Latios@focus sash
    Levitate
    Timid
    Don’t remember IV, i soft reset lots of times with a masterball and a Sync Abra, in order to get at least 16 IV to outspeed Garchomp, and good Special Attak
    252 Speed
    252 Special Attak
    6 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Psychic

    Slaking@choice band
    Truant
    Adamant
    21/31/27/xx/31/31
    252atk / 100speed / 156 Special Defence
    Double edge
    Brick break
    Fire punch
    Ice punch

    I got amazing results with this reckless staraptor i bread from the dream world... about 85% of the times, Staraptor KOs one opponent in the first turn with double edge or brave bird, and usually i SD on Garchomp on the first turn. Another good option is chomp’s earthquake, usable with latios too, in cases of sturdies and/or pokemon that cannot be OHKO by staraptor

    Also, the sashed Latios (instead of a classic sashed Chomp and life orb/choice spec Latios) is resulting more efficient, at least in my experience.... this way, latios can survive, aside from obvious CH, sucker punches (lots of them), and, in the cases of trick room i couldn't avoid, guarantees at least one shot)

    AI’s still cannot take advantage of Slaking’s truant, so i still find its ability to switch-in to almost any pokemon, and to OHKO almost anything, of great help.

    I’m currently at battle 42 with my third attempt (first lost with an indecent Glaceon that quick clawed blizzard my team to death, note that hail wasn’t in effect), second attempt lost at battle 48 LOL to a scarfed thundurus that rock slided and flinched staraptor first turn, then another flinch on chomp on second, nothing to do)
  19. Munkeytoto

    Munkeytoto

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    I really need help building this team. :S

    Scizor @ Life Orb "Smack.Dat"
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    Bullet Punch
    Bug Bite
    Pursuit
    Swords Dance
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk

    I figure putting Hp Investment may help, and i don't need speed with Priority and whatnot.

    Milotic @ Leftovers "Nessie"
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    Nature: Bold
    Scald
    Ice Beam
    Toxic
    Recover
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def

    I think (From lurking here many months) that this is a fairly decent 'Tanking Milotic'. Should be able to take any fire attack scizor doesn't like.

    Aaaand now i'm stuck. I'm thinking a ground type, like Gliscor, maybe Garchomp although i want a different team from my Diamond team.
    And then i thought maybe Gengar or Thundurus? Which one of these would be good for coverage an whatnot?
  20. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    I´ll try to help you.
    First Superpower( If you got access to a Gen IV movetutor)/ Brick Break over Pursuit, otherwise you will get walled to much. Milotic looks fine.

    Standart Garchomp works always, or you try timid Gengar@ Sash, Shadowball/Thunderbolt/Fokus Blast/Destiny Bond as a lead.
    Pretty standart and nothing special, but at least it works.
  21. Munkeytoto

    Munkeytoto

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for the quick reply!
    I'd rather just teach it Brick Break, it should do the trick with some SD's set up + Life orb.
    So yeah, would i max EV's in Speed and Sp. Atk. For Gengar then?
    I like the Gengar idea, i think i'll go with it. Cheers!
    I'll post what streak i can get soon. :)
  22. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    185
    On that Scizor, pursuit doesn't seem ideal. The AI rarely switches, so you lose the main value of the move, and even with technician, night slash hits harder.

    But a dark move in general seems suboptimal on this set. Against dark-weak opponents, pursuit doesn't give you much damage over the alternatives. STAB bug bite hits MUCH harder on psychics, and STAB bullet punch covers ghosts, the two types that dark hits for super effective damage.

    In its place, I recommend superpower, which keeps Scizor from getting badly walled by steel types.

    EDIT:
    Looking back, I see you've suggested Brick Break instead. I still think that superpower would serve you better, as in my experiences in the subway (I've used swords dance Scizor on two different 100+ streak teams), there are situations where you badly need a one hit KO, and don't have time to set up multiple (or even any) of swords dances. Superpower hits substantially harder than brick break, and gives you a lot of KOs that brick break does not.
  23. fabsmg68

    fabsmg68

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    well i managed to win battle 49 with the hereby team... now, before proceeding, i'd like to share some opinions about adjustements.... i'm consiedring those changes :

    - in place of chomp (and changing Lations from focus sash to life orb), this :
    infernape@focus sash
    iron fist
    jolly
    252speed/252atk/6hp
    fake out
    fire punch
    thunder punch
    close combat

    fake out will make sure then in the first turn starapor can kill or deal great damage to the right opponent. also, fake put helps on faster scarfed pokemon that could outspeed staraptor, and/or the danger of quick clawers. fire punch and thunder punch are helped by the 20% increase of iron fist vs blaze.

    Another idea is to change slaking with this :
    Dragonite@yatche berry (and changing garchomp from yatche berry to focus sash, and lations from focus sash to life orb)
    jolly
    multiscale
    252 speed/252 atk/6 hp
    dragon dance
    outrage
    earthquake
    fire punch

    multiscale provides coverage to switch-in into everything. if not switch-in, dragon dance on first turn, and then sweep... earthquake should help if latios is still in and/or there are 2 opponenents left and dragonite is alone


    ----------------------------------
    This is my team for Double battles :

    Staraptor@choice scarf
    Reckless
    Adamant
    28/31/26/xx/31/31
    252 Speed
    252 atk
    6 HP
    Brave bird
    Double edge
    Close combat
    U-turn

    Garchomp@yatche berry
    Sand Veil
    Jolly
    17/31/31/xx/31/31
    252 Speed
    252 Atk
    6 HP
    Dragon Claw
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Swords Dance

    Latios@focus sash
    Levitate
    Timid
    Don’t remember IV, i soft reset lots of times with a masterball and a Sync Abra, in order to get at least 16 IV to outspeed Garchomp, and good Special Attak
    252 Speed
    252 Special Attak
    6 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Psychic

    Slaking@choice band
    Truant
    Adamant
    21/31/27/xx/31/31
    252atk / 100speed / 156 Special Defence
    Double edge
    Brick break
    Fire punch
    Ice punch

    I got amazing results with this reckless staraptor i bread from the dream world... about 85% of the times, Staraptor KOs one opponent in the first turn with double edge or brave bird, and usually i SD on Garchomp on the first turn. Another good option is chomp’s earthquake, usable with latios too, in cases of sturdies and/or pokemon that cannot be OHKO by staraptor

    Also, the sashed Latios (instead of a classic sashed Chomp and life orb/choice spec Latios) is resulting more efficient, at least in my experience.... this way, latios can survive, aside from obvious CH, sucker punches (lots of them), and, in the cases of trick room i couldn't avoid, guarantees at least one shot)

    AI’s still cannot take advantage of Slaking’s truant, so i still find its ability to switch-in to almost any pokemon, and to OHKO almost anything, of great help.

    I’m currently at battle 42 with my third attempt (first lost with an indecent Glaceon that quick clawed blizzard my team to death, note that hail wasn’t in effect), second attempt lost at battle 48 LOL to a scarfed thundurus that rock slided and flinched staraptor first turn, then another flinch on chomp on second, nothing to do)
  24. mattj

    mattj blatant Nintendo fanboy

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,637
    Why not Giga Impact on a choice banded slacking?
  25. fabsmg68

    fabsmg68

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    that is a good question... consider that i played the 2nd generation game (ruby or similar) from the begininng, just to be able to capture and breed a slaking, 'cause that was the only game where it was possible to teach slaking double-edge.

    the reason for double edge over giga impact is clearly for accuracy, remembering that this slaking was intended exlusivly for use in the battle tower... in the long run, giga impact will eventually fail... and considering that you will not be able to attack the next turn, that means that you'll have to whitstand 2 (3 if opponent is faster, 4 if opponent is faster and you switched-in) hits before being able to retaliate....that means that you probably won't have a second chance.. so i preferred the 100% accuracy, over the power of gigaimpact.... (anyway, a choiced banded - adamant - 31 iv & 252 ev attack - slaking's double edge, is something that destroys most pokemon in the game...)

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