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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @Peterko: Yeah, things like that happen. Sometimes it's just luck really (or there lack of). I have not used Excadrill either, and I don't think I really plan to while expecting a high streak, simply due to my experience with Tyranitar.

    I remember I was using Ttar in Single as a set up sweeper (in Platinum I think). *Not such a good idea*. I lost about 4 or 5 times under 70, because Tyranitar was fully set up but Sand Veil kicks in on opposing Gliscor or Garchomp. And then it finally did it for me when Earthquake missed Lax Incense Jolteon 4 times in a row (My setup TTar was @Leftovers: DD/EQ/Crunch/Sub). And then I thought I remember Calisto or somebody using DD/Sub/Crunch/Protect Ttar and getting like 400+.

    Then recently I tried my Ttar again (heh, why not, I was too lazy to breed for new pokemon), and I still lose <70, but due to some other hax not named Sand Veil.

    Sand is annoying and makes things too unpredictable... I dunno.

    Not sure what the point of this post was, but I did recently lost my "3. Chinese Dood & Sally (70) - [SIZE=-2]Reuniclus, Conkeldurr + Togekiss, Azumarill" [/SIZE]streak at 83 I think.

    Just misplay... very brief synopsis: Exeggutor + back pokemon and low health Ttar (oh hah) + back pokemon vs Reuniclus (Conkeldurr in back) + Azumarill. I dunno what my mind was thinking, but I told Sally Azumarill should protect while Shadow Ball should KO Ttar, and then we focus attack Exeggutor next turn, but Shadow ball did not do enough to KO Ttar while Ttar Crunch KO'd Reuniclus, which left us at Exeggutor (and other things) facing Conkeldurr + Azumarill. ... Downhill from there.

    Obviously the best course of action was Shadow ball Exeggutor + Aqua Jet to finish off Ttar. Well, stupid me.

    Maybe I should play Doubles more.
  2. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    I'll also agree on the issues with TTar. I find it often very situational, as it either gets crushed by the opponents where you just sit around and spam Protect, or it walls the opponent. Which is probably why when I tried leading with TTar, I stopped immediatedly after the first 7 battles, because it just didn't work for me.
  3. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
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    Hello folks. I haven't been playing much Pokémon lately but I'm going to jump back in, hopefully I can think of some good new ideas. My last idea which I'm still trying to put on the leaderboards was almost perfect in theory but has never carried through. (Maybe it's because the team relies on Tyranitar.) As far as I know, nothing has changed so I should be ready once more

    Edit: Great way to start off - losing at round 15 to 4 consecutive Rock Slide flinches. That's a terrible omen if I've ever seen one

    Edit 2: Lost to Rock Slide for the 19000th time and then lost to Horn Drill hax. Quitting is very appealing right about now
  4. Cradily

    Cradily

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    Wow I find that just as crazy as missing both opponents with heat wave two turns in a row with zoom lens. Lawl
  5. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    another team

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 137, 33
    Team: Bisharp (v1), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 58, 13
    Team: Bisharp (v2), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 65, 12
    Team: Bisharp (v3), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 33
    Team: Bisharp (v4), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross


    1. Bisharp (M) „BLADE“
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Defiant
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-04-31-31
    EV spread: 6-252-0-0-0-252
    Lv.50: 141-194-120-60-90-122
    Moves:
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Psycho Cut (v1) / Low Sweep (v2) / Brick Break (v3) / Metal Burst (v4)

    2. Zapdos „STORM“
    Item: Choice Specs*
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 26-31-26-31-27-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 163-99-103-265*-109-167
    Moves:
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Heat Wave
    ~ Hidden Power Ice 70
    ~ Thunderbolt

    3. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 6-0-0-252-0-252
    Lv.50: 156-99-100-182-130-178
    Moves:
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Protect
    ~ Thunderbolt

    4. Metagross „DOOMSDAY“
    Item: Choice Band*
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-21-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
    Lv.50: 155-307*-150-99-111-122
    Moves:
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Bullet Punch

    Team: Bisharp (v1), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    #138 vs Parasol Lady - Gastrodon, Jolteon, Starmie, Slowbro:

    T1: Sharp Sucker Punch Jolt, but it failed, Rain Dance, HP Ice Jolt, Gastro Muddy Water, 38/141 Sharp, 73/163 Zap, accuracy drop on Zap.
    T2: Zapdos out, Latios in, Sharp Sucker Punch, Jolt fainted, Gastro Muddy Water CH on Sharp, Sharp fainted, 117/156 Latios, accuracy drop on Latios.
    -> foe Starmie, my Meta
    T3: Latios Protect, Mie Signal Beam, Latios Protected, Meta Quake, 60% 70% Gastro Counter, Meta fainted.
    -> me Zapdos
    T4: Mie Power Gem, Zapdos fainted, Latios Dragon Pulse, Starmie avoided, Gastro Muddy Water, 68/156 Latios, accuracy drop on Latios.
    T5: Mie Signal Beam, Latios fainted.
    0-3

    Bad matchup for Zapdos, didn´t check movesets, otherwise would´ve known that both Jolteons Rain Dance turn 1, Sharp had to Sucker Punch Gastro (59-71%) or Swords Dance and then OHKO Gastro turn 2. Also should´ve brought Latios turn 1, Psyshock OHKOs Jolteon turn two and later MetaZap would hopefully beat Starmie and Slowbro.

    It was quite unfortunate to lose here, because I swore to pay even more attention than usual between battles 126-147 as I call them the Bermuda Triangle...I´ve lost too many good looking streaks there. Of course I didn´t pay even the usual level of attention, because that was the first set of 7 after a 4 hour break ... ... ... counterteam/losing to bad focus when continuing my streak ... ... ... that´s a pattern :(

    #34 vs Backpacker: Gengar Hypnotized both my Pokémon, evil Houndoom (sucker, flame charge)

    Didn´t pay much attention and let Houndoom have too much fun with me, altough Gengar was really nasty and Zapdos sleeping 2 turns was game deciding.

    Team: Bisharp (v2), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    #59 vs PKMN Ranger – Garchomp, Mienshao, Pinsir, Wailord:

    T1: Sucker Punch Chomp, Earthquake, Sash, HP Ice, Chomp fainted, HJK, Sharp fainted.
    -> my Meta, foe Pinsir
    T2: Bullet Punch, Mien fainted, HP Ice 75%, Pin Stone Edge, Zapdos fainted.
    -> my Latios, foe Wailord
    T3: Bullet Punch, Pin avoided, Thunderbolt 80% to Wailord, X-Scissor, Latios fainted, Wail Curse.
    T4: Bullet Punch, Pin fainted, Curse + Lefties
    T5-8: Bullet Punch crap dmg, Lefties recover, Curse + Aqua Ring,
    T9: Bullet Punch, Waterfall, Meta fainted.
    0-1

    BATTLE ANALYSIS

    Bad luck:
    a) Zapdos has 163 HP / 103 def, which means 194 atk Pinsir has a 3/16 chance to OHKO with Stone Edge if it hits, of course it hit (80%) and rolled random 98-100 in the damage formula (18,75%). Note that it needs to roll max damage to have a 1/16 chance to OHKO a perfect HP Ice Zapdos (31 HP IV / 30 def IV).
    b) obligatory BrightPowder miss exactly when it mattered, saving Pinsir from sure KO, allowing it to kill Latios

    Misplay:
    a) not doing any damage calcs and Sucker Punching Chomp instead of Mien – Outrage does max 156/163 dmg to Zapdos, HP Ice obviously OHKOs Chomp and a Sucker Punched Mien would have been killed by its partner´s Quake turn one (min SP 54 dmg + 106 min Quake dmg = 100% KO on 140 HP Mien ), leaving me in a 3-2 situation without the need to lock Meta into Bullet Punch
    b) not checking Pinsir´s nor Wailord´s moveset, which resulted in not playing safe – basic rule of playing Subway/Tower, if there´s something that can go wrong, it will – by playing safe here I mean I should have either
    b1) Protected with Latios to check whether (make sure) BP hits.
    b2) double-targeted Pinsir to make sure it faints.

    #14 vs Doctor Thymine - Exploud, Seismitoad, Skuntank, Kangaskhan:

    T1: Sucker Punch, Volt Switch, Exploud fainted, Latios in, Earth Power, Sash.
    -> foe Skuntank
    T2: Latios out, Meta in, Tank Sucker Punch, it failed, Sharp Sucker Punch, 60% to Toad, Earth Power, Sharp fainted.
    -> my Zapdos
    T3: Heat Wave, Tank avoided, Toad burned, Tank Foul Play, LO dmg, Meta 52/155, Toad Earth Power, Meta fainted, burn dmg, Toad 1% left.
    -> my Latios
    T4: Latios Protect, Zap Heat Wave, Toad avoided, 75% to Tank, Tank Foul Play, Latios Protected, Toad Rain Dance, hurt by burn, Toad fainted.
    -> foe Kanga
    T5: Kanga Fake Out, Tank Sucker Punch, Latios fainted, Zap flinched.
    T6: Kanga Sucker Punch, Zap Heat Wave, Tank fainted.
    T7: Zap Heat Wave, Kanga Double-Edge, Zap fainted.
    0-1

    A showcase of a) underestimating the oponent and misplaying b) Heat Wave being a worthy top 3 worst attack in the doubles metagame, 50/50 when it matters. Turn 4 really made me smile (not). Also liked how Kanga knew that it should FO the slower Zapdos because Latios was getting one shotted... I know, I should have risked another protect, but I wouldn´t have been in the situation if not for my crappy play and Cheat Wave.


    I´m not giving up on the team, although I´ll probably change Low Sweep to Brick Break, the speed drop didn´t help me significantly or save me, on the other hand it does crap damage even if 2xSE (basically same as Iron Head against normal without the flinch ratio) or 4xSE (75%-ish to the likes of Aggron – not that it matters as Aggron always seems to have Sturdy, also Magnezone lol). BB is 25% stronger.

    I really like this team, Bisharp is a monster and almost broken at times, it was quite random that I chose it, I was very angry about my losses with Tyranitar-Excadrill but instead of having a break (I just don´t give up), I wanted to get back at the Subway and hit it hard. I was rather furiously slapping a team together and wanted a physical Pokémon in the lead that´s not killed by Intimidate (there´s only a handful - that´s why Metagross is an ideal Subway lead) and stumbled upon Bisharp.

    I already had one fully trained (Sucker Punch, Psycho Cut, Iron Head, Night Slash) at level 96 and went with it. I have experience with lead SD Scizor (back then with Latios as partner) and Sharp is similar, but also different. Anyway, taught it SD and loved it since battle #1. In the first streak, I left it with Psycho Cut (egg move) to test and it was really useful in particular situations (mostly against Fighters and Weezing), after the second streak I trained a second Sharp with a fighting move, using that one now. Lost two early streaks now, but I won´t give up. The way the Subway counter-teams you in the early rounds is ridiculous (I mean the first two battles I had after changing Psycho Cut, I faced double fighters as leads...also facing an Electric or Water/Ground in every other battle - Zapdos hates those).

    Oh, forgot, also considering trying Metal Burst to say FU to all those faster Pokémon spamming Fighting moves.

    EDIT:

    hahahahahahaa, this is getting ridiculous

    Team: Bisharp (v3), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    #66 vs Socialite Aparna - Latios, Latias, Articuno, Regice:

    1. Sharp Sucker Punch targeting foe Latios, but it failed, Zap HP Ice 60% to foe Latias, foe Latias Quake, Sharp 50/141, foe Latias LO dmg, foe Latios Calm Mind.
    2. Sharp Sucker Punch 70% to foe Latios, Zap HP Ice, foe Latias fainted, foe Latios Dragon Pulse, Sharp fainted.
    -> foe Articuno, my Latios, 3-3
    3. my Latios Protect, Zap HP Ice, foe Latios fainted, Arti Blizzard, my Latios protected, Ice Gem Blizzard, Zap fainted.
    -> my Meta, foe Regice
    4. Latios Psyshock 55% to Regice, Sitrus, Arti Blizzard, 13/156 Latios, 113/155 Meta, Latios frozen solid, Meta frozen solid, Meta is frozen solid, Regice Ice Beam, Latios fainted.
    5. Arti Tailwind, Meta thawed out, Iron head, Arti fainted, Regice Focus Blast, Meta 41/155.
    6. Regice Thunderbolt, Meta fainted.
    0-1

    Believe it or not, I actually laughed. It´s not like I needed any more proof for what I´ve been saying for a long time now, Blizzard is the simple worst (and most broken) doubles move, followed by Rock Slide and Heat Wave.

    This battle was just wrong on too many levels. Lati@s lead and obviously the AI shuffles the sets (joking) so that I target the wrong one with Sucker Punch, then I bring in Latios because I thought maybe I would need to switch out Zap into Meta, although normally I would always go Meta because of the coverage. I wonder if Arti would´ve frozen Meta then lol. Yep, I still had a shot at winning, but I should´ve went for Regice first instead of Articuno, as Ice was the more imminent threat that could hit with neutral attacks and Arti could´ve trolled me with Protect, instead it trolled me with a game deciding Tailwind...

    Still, a double-hitting, double-freezing blizzard. Good game, AI.

    Now that I think about it a bit more, maybe I should´ve gone with Bullet Punch instead of Iron Head, Bullet + Bolt KOs Articuno and then ... yeah Meta does min 62% to that Regice, almost always 2HKOing even through Sitrus...on the other hand, I´m sure the AI would predict (know what I do) and outplay me with Protect on Arti...that was a tough one.

    #13 vs Weavile, Magmortar, Volcarona, Steelix

    1. Ice Punch, Zap fainted, Flame Burst, Sash, Iron Head, Vile fainted.
    - my Latios, foe Volca
    2. Sucker Punch, Flame Body, Dragon Pulse, Volca fainted, Flame Burst, Sharp fainted.
    - my Meta, foe Steelix
    3. Bullet Punch, Dragon Pulse, Mortar fainted, Lix Curse.
    4. Bullet Punch, Dragon Pulse (55% dmg), Crunch, Latios fainted.
    5.-10. Bullet Punch – Curse, Curse, Curse, Crunch, Crunch, Meta fainted.
    0-1

    Team: Bisharp (v4), Zapdos, Latios, Metagross

    #34 vs Scientist Spacey: Aerodactyl, Archeops, Tangrowth, Krookodile

    1. switch Zap, Meta in, Sharp Sucker Punch 70% to Archeops, Sitrus, Aero Quake, Archeops Quake, Sharp fainted, Meta fainted.
    -> my Latios and Zapdos
    2. Archeops Protect, Aero Quake, doesn´t affect anyone, Latios Bolt, Archeops protected, Zap Bolt, Aero fainted.
    -> foe Tangrowth
    3. Archeops Rock Slide, Latios Bolt, Archeops fainted, Zap Bolt 60% to Tangrowth, Tang Power Whip Latios 12/156.
    -> foe Krook
    4. Latios Dragon Pulse 80% to Krook, LO dmg, Latios fainted, Zap Bolt, Tang fainted, Krook something, Zap fainted.
    0-1
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Ok so I tried my new Trick Room team and it's working nicely. So far I haven't gotten anything huge with it yet due to misplays though. My highest was like 40-something. I was up against Bulk Up Scrafty and Curse Gastrodon. I chose to Close Combat Scrafty and set up Trick Room. What I should have done is Fake Out Gastrodon. Basically the next turn Gastrodon was faster due to Curse and it critted Hariyama to death with Waterfall. Also lol at +1 Scraftu surviving Hariyama's Close Combat, and Metagrosses Iron Head and Bullet Punch. I think I should give it an Iron Ball to give it more speed in Trick Room. This might have been avoided otherwise.

    I'm thinking of dumping Beheeyem for Reuniclus. Ally Switch is fun but it doesn't work very well with Hariyama. It's not that the typing is bad though. In fact, Hariyama's typing is arguably better because of the bug resistance. The problem is that Close Combat lowers Hariyama's defences. That, combined with the lack of Drain Punch recovery, makes Ally Switch harder to abuse because Hariyama will probably just die to the hit I swapped it to anyway. It's still occasionally useful to have Beheeyem eat a hit for its partner, but it is just too situational now.

    Since Ally Switch isn't helpful anymore, there isn't much point to Beheeyem. The only advantages it has over Reuniclus are Telepathy and Thunderbolt. Telepathy isn't that important because Metagross's Earthquake doesn't do that much to its partner and Magic Guard is a great ability anyway. No Thunderbolt on Reuniclus sucks (seriously this thing learns Thunder but not Thunderbolt), though I have Energy Ball at least (Gyarados could become dangerous though).
  7. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Hahaha, you know what? I was theorymonning a Trick Room rain team and I said the exact same thing... in reverse, for Beheeyem, which learns Thunderbolt but not Thunder. :P

    I was just seeing if I could do something with a slow DrizzleToad paired with a non-water Trick Roomer that could abuse rain (e.g. Thunder), but Beheeyem does not, while Reuniclus does, but without telepathy means it might not go as well if I want to surf (and offensive Gastrodon is a fairly good TR Rain pokemon being paired with Surf Politoed). Didn't want too many water types, to avoid being too grass weak. ... Nothing finalized. I just felt like mentioning that after reading atsync's comment on Reuniclus.

    On the other hand, I'm still doing Singles... Currently testing out teams without a whole lot of thought. Last test I did was:
    Crippler Mesprit (Stealth Rock / Twave / Flash / Charm)
    Set Up Marvel Scale Dnite (DD / DClaw / Sub / Roost)
    Set Up Cobalion (CM / Sub / Rest / Flash Cannon)

    ... Don't remember how I lost already, but it was 49<streak#<70 and it was some bad misplay followed by a little bit of hax (Blizzard hitting 3 times in a row after 1 flash).
  8. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I was going to suggest Musharna because I thought it could learn Thunder, but apparently it doesn't :/. Actually nothing gets Thunder and Telepathy (well except Dialga, Palkia and Giratina lol).

    Still, why not just use Beheeyem anyway? There's no rule saying that you HAVE to use Thunder as your rain team's electric move, and Thunderbolt is still one of the best moves in the game. Plus, Thunderbolt still has 100 accuracy should your rain disappear (Thunderbolt won't do much to Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Abomasnow but it might help out with the back-ups).
  9. ashez

    ashez

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    Got my new shell today, so hoping to fix it soon then i'll be back :)

    Came up with loads ideas durring my break and i've missed the ups n downs of the subway lol so cant wait to be back :)
  10. CarlMcQ

    CarlMcQ

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    So here's my horrible idea of a team that just lost after a 75 win streak. I call it a horrible idea because the lead is the biggest gambler you can imagine.

    [​IMG]
    Smeargle "Relm" @ Focus Sash
    Jolly
    HP 252, Spd 252, SpecDef 6
    31/19/25/25/31/31
    Moody

    Minimize
    Substitute
    Baton Pass
    Spore
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite "Spathi" @ Leftovers
    Adamant
    HP 204, Att 254, Def 52
    31/31/31/20/22/25
    Multiscale

    Dragon Claw
    Roost
    Substitute
    Dragon Dance
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn "Lord Ochu" @ Rocky Helmet
    Sassy
    HP 252, SpecDef 252, Def 6
    31/21/31/29/31/7

    Substitute
    Curse
    Leech Seed
    Power Whip

    The idea, obviously, is to Spore whatever is in front of me, and then Sub, Minimize and continue to Spore until I feel I've got adequate boosts from Moody (and a +6 in Evasion or bust) to pass to my choice of Ferrothorn or Dragonite. The thing about Moody is that it's incredibly difficult to keep track of what all your stats are at. And it will occasionally drop your Speed or Accuracy which really fucks up the repeated Spore idea. It is also important to note that Minimize got buffed to raise Evasion by +2 instead of the usual +1.

    I lost when a Honchcrow surprised me with Insomnia, so it knocked me down to my sash, and I decided to cut my losses and switch to Ferrothorn to kill it and then carry on, possibly even going back to Smeargle for a +2 or something in Evasion. But his Drill Peck actually did quite a bit, and my Lefties and Leech Seed weren't keeping up. I took the last Drill Peck with Dragonite and then out came a Porygon2 with Ice Beam AND a Lum Berry. I considered PP stalling his Ice Beam with Roost and Sub, but without my Flying-type and Multiscale activated, it was STILL doing almost half, so I knew Freeze or a crit would screw me before he was out of PP. I decided to get one Dragon Claw off and die, so I could try a Minimize to possibly get two Spores off and start to set up, but the first Tri-Attack hit and killed me. Ferrothorn was finished off by one Ice Beam. Didn't even see the third Pokemon.

    So that's what I get for using such a variable team, but I can say it was entertaining to use. And I made a nice round 75 streak out of it.
  11. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Here´s a little challenge for veterans.

    Imagine you face Scientist Spacey in battle #34 who leads with Aerodactyl and Archeops against your Sash Bisharp and Specs Zap (you have Latios and Metagross in the back).

    This is what you face:

    Aerodactyl 4 Choice Band 155 235* 85 72 95 200 Stone Edge Aerial Ace Earthquake Crunch
    Archeops 4 Sitrus Berry 150 192 85 118 85 178 Rock Slide Earthquake Aerial Ace Protect

    What do you predict the AI will do?

    a) Aero Stone Edge on Zapdos, Archeops Rock Slide
    b) Aero Stone Edge on Zapdos, Archeops Earthquake
    c) Aero Earthquake, Archeops Rock Slide
    d) Aero Earthquake, Archeops Earthquake
    e) something else

    And why?
    Also how would you play turn 1?
  12. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    I do play Subway every now and then. Here's my thought:

    I figured Archeops may Earthquake because if the CPU is programmed to know Rock Slide splits half of its Base Power initially, as that does not OHKO Zapdos, but can still hit Bisharp for super effective damage. Aerodactyl took its chance with Stone Edge to OHKO your Zapdos.

    Or, the second side of me is thinking his Aerodactly's Rock Slide is there to hit first for STAB + Choice Band could OHKO/ Zapdos, so Archeon can follow up with Rock Slide for 30% of flinching twice may prevent Bisharp from OHKOing one of his Pokemon. That is if Archeon doesn't just Earthquake to get rid of Bisharp assuming the first Rock Slide flinches Zapdos.

    I'd personally Iron Head on the first turn with Bisharp and switch-out Zapdos for Metagross; priority in Choice Banded Bullet Punch means I'm killing something after this phase because the AI will not Earthquake twice for fear Zapdos is untouched for the whole entire turn.
  13. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    From what I know, I think it should end up being double quake because CPU tend to like doing quake when partner is immune and can either KO something or no other moves can OHKO anything.

    I.e. in this case, Aero CB Quake should KO Bisharp (I'm just assuming, since I didn't do calc). Aero CB Stone Edge will KO Zapdos too, but since Archeops is immune, Aero favors doing EQ. For Archeops, no moves will OHKO anything (I'm assuming), so it will EQ since Aero is immune.

    EDIT: If CB Quake doesn't OHKO Bisharp (as in, not factoring in Sash), I think R Inanimate is probably right.

    If that's the case, then of course my course of action will be either a) switch to Latios + Tbolt Archeops (more likely), or Protect + Tbolt Archeops.

    ... though I'm sure the real answer probably is something random like Archeops Protect for no explainable reason. :P

    EDIT2: @ashez: Aero does not have Rockslide.
  14. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    b. Stone Edge will KO Zapdos.
    Archeops can't KO anything, and will go for an Earthquake since its ally is immune to it.

    Play by Sucker Punching Archeops, activating Defeatist, and switching Zapdos for Meta.
  15. ashez

    ashez

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    I think that Aero rock slides to hit Zap with stab while breaking your sash while Arch quakes to KO Bis.

    I think i'd sucker punch Arch hoping to KO or at least activate its ability while Switching Meta in to take the rock slide and the hopefully weaker earthquake.

    But i also think Arch protects.
  16. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    The Sitrus Berry would reactivate Defeatist though, wouldn't it? I believe an unboosted Sucker Punch falls short of 75% damage on Archeops (correct me if I'm wrong).

    Still I probably would have the same thing, though Metagross would not have liked Archeops's Earthquake. That really is a tough situation since Sucker Punch can't KO either lead without a crit. Maybe the best strategy would be to sacrifice Zapdos to Stone Edge and have Bisharp Iron Head one of the leads to death (Aerodactyl is probably safer due to it not having Protect and Bisharp can fall back on Focus Sash to survive Archeops's Earthquake). Then Metagross comes in for free. Archeops's Protect is so shitty though since you never know when it's gonna pull that out.

    That would lead to you losing Zapdos and probably Bisharp too and locking Metagross into Bullet Punch for the other lead isn't ideal. Not really a good situation. You'd have to hope that Latios and Metagross's Bullet Punch could kill the last 2 pokemon :/

    Still, maybe Archeops predicted Rock Slide flinch hax and decided to use that instead lol.
  17. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    It's roughly a 50/50 chance of Archeops still being below half Health after a Sucker Punch. It's a non-STAB divided Earthquake anways so it won't do too much to Meta.

    If it Protects for the turn, you can just OHKO it with CB Bullet Punch on the next turn, and set up Bisharp, since Aero is stuck on Stone Edge.
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    50/50? Guess I made a mistake in my calculation because I could have sworn that it had no chance of staying under 50%. Guess it doesn't matter though since you're right about Metagross not caring about eathquake.

    Of course, if Archeops got consecutive successful Protects things might get messy but that's unlikely (though I did have Garchomp do 4 consecutive Protects against me once).
  19. CarlMcQ

    CarlMcQ

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    Man, oh, man. That reminds me of the time me and my buddy were screwing around in HGSS Battle Tower with our Lapras-Vaporeon Water Absorb Surf combo. That seemed to work pretty well, but apparently we really pissed off the computer with it because on something like only the 20th battle it threw a Garchomp-Salamence combo at us which summarily proceeded to Double Draco Meteor Crit us each to death.

    But the odds of yours are even worse.
  20. Touko88

    Touko88

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    I just made it to battle number 70 on the Super Double Train, and I haven't seen a Trick Room team posted (sorry if there is I might have overlooked it). Anyway this team has given me no problems so far, so here it is. (Also, I have X for the speed IVs, which i know speed in Trick Room is important but I haven't got them exactly down tho i do know the range) (Just noticed that someone else has tried a Trick Room team, at the moment I am still going strong at battle number 77)
    EDIT: Added Gender and level 50 Stats.

    Reuniclus - (Andromeda, Female) @ Life Orb
    Quiet - Magic Guard
    EV - 172/0/32/252/52/0 | IV - 31/0/31/31/31/23
    LV. 50 Stats - 207/70/99/194/112/41
    Psyshock
    Focus Blast
    Protect
    Trick Room

    Scrafty - (Affinity, Male) @ Chople Berry
    Brave - Moxie
    EV - 252/252/4/0/0/0 | IV - 31/31/31/X/29/X
    LV. 50 Stats - 172/156/136/55/134/70
    Fake Out
    Drain Punch
    Crunch
    Detect

    Tyranitar - (Over Crush, Male) @ Focus Sash
    Brave - Sand Stream
    EV - 252/252/0/0/4/0 | IV - 31/31/31/X/31/X
    LV. 50 Stats - 207/204/130/107/121/62
    Rock Slide
    Crunch
    Earthquake
    Protect

    Eelektross - (Soul Crash, Male) @ Flying Gem (need to redo his Special Attack EVs as it is one off MAX)
    Quiet - Levitate
    EV - 252/4/0/252/0/0 | IV - 31/31/X/31/X/X
    LV. 50 Stats - 192/136/100/172/99/52
    Thunderbolt
    Flamethrower
    Grass Knot
    Acrobatics

    Basically Reuniclus is the lead with Scrafty as her partner. Scrafty will Fake Out the greater of the 2 threats so Reuniclus can set up Trick Room. After that just proceed to start pummeling with the two of them, I normally do not bother to switch, most of the time i do not need to.
    When I do switch or one of the two leads get KOed then I will send out either Eelektross or Tyranitar, depending on what threat happens to be out there Tyranitar's set should be self-explanatory, Crunch and Rock Slide are for STAB, Protect to Protect until Tyranitar's threat has been dealt with and Earthquake is because I was too lazy to breed a Tyranitar in Gen IV with Low Kick as Earthquake hits most of the same targets with relatively the same power.
    Eelektross might seem weird running a SpAtk set with Acrobatics but the reason I did that is if I ended up going against a fighting type will Reuniclus was down I could have an alternative way to deal with Fighting types that would threaten Tyranitar, on that note it OHKOes most fighting types or does some serious damage, (Virizion and Breloom get OHKO instantly).
    I am pretty sure the EV/IVs are self explanatory, also all of those came from the Strategy Section here (with the exception of putting Acrobatic on Eelekrtoss).
    And Pic:
    [​IMG]
    EDIT: I ended up losing at match number 80 to a Battle Girl, and thanks to copy paste shenanigans I lost the battle report which I am too lazy to retype, suffice it to say I need to pay better attention to Flingers, because that is essential what cost me that match.
  21. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Yeah that team is similar to mine in that you use Fake Out to help guarantee Trick Room set up. Nice Streak. I see you have Focus Blast on Reuniclus. Is that really necessary? You have Scrafty for Fighting coverage and the accuracy is shaky. I guess it's helpful if Scrafty dies though.

    I'm probably going to retire from Trick Room soon anyway regardless of my streak length. It gets a bit repetitive after a while. Maybe I'll try sun again...

    Anyway, I was bored and decided to do a quick test with Ally Switch. I was unsurprised, but Ally Switch actually FAILS if you use it in Multi. It doesn't matter if you are teamed with the in-game partner or with another DS. It fails no matter what. That was disappointing because, as ridiculous as it sounds, it would be interesting to take control of the pokemon the in-game partner uses (since they don't have a clue how to use them). Oh well.
  22. Touko88

    Touko88

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    I have not had too many problems with Focus Blast's accuracy as when it does miss its mostly irrelevent or I can still recover. I do agree it is redundant but it is nice to have the Special side Covered and most of the time both opponents end up being weak to Fighting anyway.
  23. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Subway Prediction Challenge: What actually happened.

    OK these were you answers/predictions:

    Taylor predicted (b) or (a) and he would Iron Head with Sharp and switch out Zapdos for Metagross.

    Chinese Dood predicted (d) or (b) or troll Protect (e) and he would switch Sharp to Latios and Bolt Archeops or Protect Sharp and Bolt Archeops.

    R Inanimate predicted (b) and he would switch out Zapdos for Metagross and Sucker Punch Archeops with Sharp, activating Defeatist.

    ashez predicted (b) or (e) and he would Sucker Punch Archeops hoping to activate its ability and switch Meta in to take the rock slide (Stone Edge) and the hopefully weaker Earthquake.

    atsync predicted (b) or (a) and he would either Sucker Punch + switch in Meta, or sacrifice Zapdos and Iron Head with Bisharp.

    Here´s what I predicted:

    I´m biased from my extensive Subway experience and bad luck with Rock Slide and flinching in general, basically everything that has got Rock Slide abuses it against me and flinch all the time, one of the most annoying is TR Zong lol.

    Anyway, so when I see a Rock Type, I initially think fuck Rock Slide flinch and that dims my vision (the same applies to Blizzard, Glaceon, Froslass etc.), which means I don´t always figure out the threats correctly.

    As others have said, this was a really tought situation and my initial thought was (based on the above) double Rock Slide flinch-hax, so basically (a). Yes I didn´t check the movesets and tend to forget that CB Aero has Stone Edge, but even CB Slide has a good shot at one-hitting Zap so that didn´t matter...

    Then there´s Sharp, I already faced Archeops a few times (maybe even earlier in that same streak) and Sucker Punch did 80%-ish damage to it, activating Defeatist and halving its damage.

    Long story short, I was biased and predicted (a) Stone Edge from Aero (thought it had Slide) and Rock Slide from Archeops and decided to switch out Zapdos for Metagross and Sucker Punch Archeops.

    Here´s what actually happened.

    #34 vs Scientist Spacey: Aerodactyl, Archeops, Tangrowth, Krookodile

    1. switch Zap, Meta in, Sharp Sucker Punch 70% to Archeops, Sitrus recover HP over 50%, Aero Quake, Archeops Quake (d), Sharp fainted, Meta fainted.
    -> my Latios and Zapdos
    2. Archeops Protect, Aero Quake, doesn´t affect anyone, Latios Bolt, Archeops protected, Zap Bolt, Aero fainted.
    -> foe Tangrowth
    3. Archeops Rock Slide, Latios Bolt, Archeops fainted, Zap Bolt 60% to Tangrowth, Tang Power Whip Latios 12/156.
    -> foe Krook
    4. Latios Dragon Pulse 80% to Krook, LO dmg, Latios fainted, Zap Bolt, Tang fainted, Krook something, Zap fainted.
    0-1

    The AI totally owned me turns 1-3 with the double-quake double-KO, the Protect, the speed tie win and like always, had a Ground type as last Pokémon to troll Specs Zapdos. The choice of going for Thunderbolt was wrong in hindsight, I should´ve gone with Heat Wave instead, if I faced a Steel type or something, Latios can´t handle those well...and obviously to not get walled badly by Ground.

    What we learned from this:
    - the AI likes to Quake so much that it chose to do 112-132 dmg / 141 HP = 79-93% with Aero instead of a 100% OHKO on Zapdos with Stone Edge,
    - Archeops chose to do 90-108 dmg / 141 HP = 63-76% with Quake instead of 120-144 dmg / 163 HP = 73-88% with Rock Slide,
    - Sharp Sucker Punch does 103-123 dmg / 150 HP = 68,67-82% to Archeops, which means Defeatist will not be activated due to Sitrus Berry, if you roll random 85-89 in the damage formula (5/16 chance).

    You´ve still got to take this whole situation with a grain of salt though, because some people think the AI behaves differently in the earlier rounds (I don´t think so), on the other hand I often have the feeling as if the AI would know what I´m doing, like using Protect if I double-target or do something similar to this battle when I switch.

    Yeah, basically Chinese Dood´s initial prediction about the AI loving to Quake was right. Also this is why I like CB Meta as lead, because it one-hits foe Aero/Arch in the blink of an eye.



    Here´s another streak with a shitty end...

    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 85
    Team: Hitmontop, Hydreigon, Zapdos, Metagross

    1. Hitmontop (M)
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-17-31-31
    EV spread: 6-252-0-0-0-252
    Lv.50: 126-161-115-43-130-122
    Moves:
    ~ Fake Out
    ~ Mach Punch
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Close Combat

    2. Hydreigon (M) „TEACH“
    Item: Choice Scarf*
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 167-112-110-194-111-225*
    Moves:
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ U-Turn

    3. Zapdos „STORM“
    Item: Choice Specs*
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 26-31-26-31-27-31
    EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
    Lv.50: 163-99-103-265*-109-167
    Moves:
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Heat Wave
    ~ Hidden Power Ice 70
    ~ Thunderbolt

    4. Metagross „DOOMSDAY“
    Item: Choice Band*
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-21-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
    Lv.50: 155-307*-150-99-111-122
    Moves:
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Bullet Punch

    #86 vs Veteran Jeune – Regirock, Articuno, Latias, Terrakion:

    1. Top Fake Out Arti, Hydra Thrower, Arti 20% left, Arti flinched, Rock Sandstorm.
    2. Hydra Thrower, Arti fainted, Top CC 55% to Rock, Rock Curse.
    -> foe Latias
    3. Top out, Meta in, Hydra Thrower Rock (lol), Latias Psychic Meta, Rock Curse.
    4. Hydra Thrower Rock :), Latias DM, Hydra fainted, White Herb, Meta Iron Head, Rock fainted.
    -> my Top, foe Terrakion, Intimidate
    5. Top Fake Out Latias, Terra Quake, Meta 84/155, Top 83/126, Meta flinched, Sandstorm subsided.
    6. Top Sucker Punch, Latias 10% left, Latias Psychic, Top fainted, Terrakion Quake, Meta 38/155, Meta Iron Head, Latias fainted.
    -> my Zapdos
    7. Terra Quake, Meta fainted, Zap Bolt 80% dmg to Terra,
    8. Terra Rock Slide, Zap 53/163, Zap flinched.
    9. Terra Rock Slide, Zap fainted.

    Jeez, Earthquake flinching Metagross, that´s something new...and again that awful Rock Slide flinch at the end, that´s just mean. Yeah I misplayed almost every turn and should have left Latias do whatever and target Terrakion (or a simple Mach Punch turn 6) but boy did that flinch surprise me, I didn´t even know there was a King´s Rock Terrakion. There´s many things I could have done differently, but a loss is a loss, although it still hurts.
  24. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    As much as we know about the CPU AI, they still sometimes go for crack move choices. Recently I've seen a Toxicroak go for Cross Chop on Politoed over Gunk Shot on Ludicolo, where the latter would be an OHKO. Toxicroak gets a Critical with Cross Chop, but that's beside the point.

    So the only way I can make sense of this is that it predicted that Gunk Shot would miss. Or in your case, Stone Edge. I don't think there was much of a way to predict a double EQ there. As much as they love to use Earthquake when their partner is immune, to expect them to use it over a KO shot would be pretty crazy.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    So if I'd gone with the "sacrifice Zapdos and Iron Head with Bisharp" method, then Bisharp would have died and Zapdos would have killed something (probably Aerodactyl due to the potential Protect).

    Then Metagross could have been sent in to kill Archeops with Bullet Punch. Zapdos would have been locked into Thunderbolt against Tangrowth and Krookodile but a switch to Latios would refresh it and allow it to Heat Wave them to death. It would have been close but I would have a chance at least...

    We should do more AI prediction challenges.

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