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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,015
    God Dammit! I managed to get myself a lot of free time and was playing Multi like crazy, only to lose at battle 63 (equaling my personal best in Multi) to an Ace Trainer and a Breeder that somehow managed to pull out Choice Band Aerodactyl + Chople Berry Tyranitar as leads. Seriously, Aerodactyl is the reason why Choice Scarf is so awesome on Heatran, and yet the one time I face it as a lead it can't be killed with Flash Cannon because it just happened to be in Sandstorm. Of course! It is especially painful given that it is less likely to happen in Multi than it is in Doubles (because you very rarely have to face two trainers of the same type whereas Hikers have the possibility of using them together in Doubles). Azumarill nearly pulled through but couldn't beat the back-ups on its own (Azumarill is awesome but, like Scizor, it can sometimes have trouble in Double and Multi battles if it is left to fight on its own).

    Still, my experiences in Multi has shown to me that dual Choice Scarf leads work really well in Multi. I might do some more testing with different leads. Heatran and Abomasnow work very well but it's just too slow with hail damage going on and losses are all the more fustrating for it, so maybe I can think of something faster.
  2. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Weather control is lovely. Having a way to stop Snow Cloak or Sand Veil is really nice to have in Double Subway.

    The CPU isn't particularly consistant with whether they feel like switching out after bring Tricked a Choice item, or not. Which is something I found out when using my Scarfkiss+Garchomp team. Sometimes they switch immediately, other times they deactivate then switch. And of course sometimes they don't really switch at all.
  3. smashbroski77

    smashbroski77

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    I have a 35 win streak right now and the team I plan on using is:

    Volcarona @ focus sash
    ability: flame body
    nature: timid
    evs: 252 speed, 252 sp. attack, 4 hp
    -fiery dance
    -butterfly dance
    -psychic
    -bug buzz

    Starmie @ life orb
    ability: natural cure
    nature: naive
    evs: 252 speed, 252 sp. attack, 4 hp
    - surf
    - thunderbolt
    - psychoshock
    - ice beam

    Garchomp @ ground gem
    ability: sand veil
    nature: jolly
    evs: 252 attack, 252 speed, 4 hp
    - earthquake
    - outrage
    - dragon dance
    - stone edge

    This is the farthest I've gotten so I don't want to lose my streak so I can finally beat the super single boss.
    Any advice is appreciated thanks :)
  4. Touko88

    Touko88

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Battle Report (How I lost)

    The team I was using is here

    and this is what happened:

    Turn 1: Reuniclus and Scrafty lead versus Conkeldurr and Hariyama lead. Scrafty uses fake out on Conkeldurr (90% life left), Hariyama uses brick break on Scrafty activating Chople berry (127/172), Reuniclus sets up trick room.

    Turn 2: Conkeldurr uses Fling (Iron Ball) on Reuniclus and gets a OHKO, Scrafty uses Drain Punch on Hariyama activating its Sitrus berry (70% life left), Hariyama uses Brick Break on Scrafty (74/172). Eelektross sent out

    Turn 3: Eelektross uses Acrobatics (Flying Gem) on Conkeldurr leaving it at 2% life left. Conkeldurr uses Superpower on Scrafty and gets the KO, Hariyama uses Brick Break on Eelektross (131/192). Tyranitar sent out

    Turn 4: Acrobatics on Hariyama leaving it at about 5% life left, Conkeldurr uses superpower on Tyranitar leaving it at 1HP due to Focus Sash, Tyranitar uses Earthquake to KO both Conkeldurr and Hariyama. Scizor and Medicham sent out. (Eelektross at 119/192)

    Turn 5: Tyranitar uses protect, Medicham uses fake out on Tyranitar, Eelektross uses flamethrower on Scizor activating Occa berry leaving it at 15% and burning it, Scizor uses Bug Bite on Tyranitar. Trick Room ends (Medicham (94% life left) and Eelektross (107/192)) take Sandstorm Damage.

    Turn 6: Scizor uses Bullet punch on Tyranitar and KOs it, Medicham uses Psycho Cut on Eelektross and gets the KO.

    Fling users have been a problem before but I recovered. This time I did not recover, although looking at the report I can see where I should have used other moves.
    Anyway after that loss I switched over to Super Singles to try and get to the Boss, but the farthest I have made it so far is 40. I have used several different kinds of unusual (maybe, probably varies from person to person)teams, I tried a singles Trick Room team, did not like it very much. I tried Ferrothorn, Chandelure and Gastrodon, which was cool since they were for the most part immune to each other's weaknesses, but it was slow and I ended up running into some problems but it was fun. I tried a Team of Tyranitar, Excadrill and Hitmonlee (I dont have a Garchomp in Gen V yet)which was pretty BEAST but I did not like it. I ended up using an Infernape, Gyarados, and Galvantula, which was fun with problems. and lately I have been using Gliscor, Starmie, Hydreigon which is pretty cool.
  5. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Going to start a Super-Single strike, that's the skeleton of the team
  6. Benefactor

    Benefactor

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    First post here, and it's a Super Doubles streak of 91 I'd like to share.

    [​IMG]
    (sorry for the shit pic)

    As you'll see, it's a Trick Room team. I was kind of inspired by this thread for the leadoff strategy of using Fake Out to help set up Trick Room. I know how to RNG so all of these guys are legitimately bred with ideal IVs.

    Scrafty @ Lum Berry
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/6/0/0/0
    Brave
    Moxie
    1. Fake Out
    2. Drain Punch
    3. Crunch
    4. Detect

    This is almost exactly the same set as the one in the VGC '12 analysis aside from the item. His dual STAB is really nice and he often appreciates the recovery from Drain Punch. What I like to do is plan out my moves so he collects as many Moxie boosts as he can. He usually survives the whole match and gets about 50% of my KOs. I went with the Lum Berry over a Chople Berry because I have a dual screener on team, which essentially does the same thing except it's helpful for everyone. Brick Break ruins it though.

    Bronzong @ Light Clay
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 252/0/6/0/252/0
    Sassy
    Levitate
    1. Trick Room
    2. Reflect
    3. Light Screen
    4. Explosion

    My initial trick room setter. Scrafty flinches the biggest threat so it's easier to set up, and then Bronzong sets up whichever screen I think is most necessary. The screens are massively helpful in keeping everyone alive and since I don't have to invest anything in Speed on anyone, they all become surprisingly bulky. Explosion combined with a Scrafty Detect gives me a free switch-in while also dealing decent damage to both opponents. I probably should have invested more in Defense, but this thing rarely gets KOd before exploding.

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 180/0/28/252/48/0
    Quiet
    Magic Guard
    1. Trick Room
    2. Psychic
    3. Shadow Ball
    4. Protect

    My secondary Trick Room setter. Very similar to the site's set except I felt Focus Blast was redundant and reconfigured the EVs for level 50. This guy hits amazingly hard with a Life Orb and almost nothing outslows it in Trick Room. Behind screens this is almost impossible to OHKO. Not much else to say here.

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/6/0
    Brave
    Solid Rock
    1. Earthquake
    2. Rock Slide
    3. Megahorn
    4. Protect

    This is my physical heavy hitter if Scrafty goes down. It's probably my least used team member, but it does have its moments. Rhyperior really shines against legendary teams where it can win against almost everything.

    Oddly enough this was only my 3rd ever attempt at Super Doubles. The first two were just feeling it out and figuring out how to get the most out of my team, and then everything clicked. I'm enjoying the doubles a lot more than singles because it seems like hax matters less and good strategy can get you out of a lot of tough situations. For example the AI tends to target someone at low HP, so you can Protect with them and get a free hit in with the other teammate. I forget the exact details of how I lost, but Scrafty got crit on the 1st or 2nd turn and then later in the match I got a crucial double miss on Rock Slide. Sucks but I'm just glad I made it that far.

    I think I'll go back to trying singles for now. I've only peaked at 62 there.
  7. Robo Mike

    Robo Mike

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    289
    Whoo. Finally got 49 wins and I'm sitting on it for now. Let's see if I can reach 70 with my:

    Garchomp @ Life Orb / SD, EQ, Outrage, Fire Fang
    Scizor @ Choice Band / Bullet Punch, Superpower, U-Turn, Pursuit
    Gastrodon @ Lefties / Scald, Ice Beam, Earth Power, Recover

    For the Subway Boss, I took care of him by temporarily putting Scizor on point (including the 6 wins before him), because Garchomp couldn't KO Haxorus without using Outrage (and it will just get avenged by Excadrill afterwards). Haxorus can't OHKO Scizor anyway, so this is what happened:

    Turn 1: Scizor used BP (over 50%), Haxorus used EQ (over 50%).
    Turn 2: Scizor used BP. Chandelure comes in.
    Turn 3: Scizor tags out. Gastrodon comes in. Chandelure used Heat Wave (40%).
    Turn 4: Chandelure uses Will-O. Gastrodon uses Earth Power. Excadrill comes in.
    Turn 5: Excadrill uses EQ. Garchomp comes in.
    Turn 6: Garchomp uses EQ.

    As I've already have my red (trainer) card, I'm heading back to the "more fun" doubles for now with the team in http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4080428&postcount=1290

    @smashbroski: Well you have a team of sweepers. I see two problems. One is that Garchomp can't learn Dragon Dance. Surely you mean "Swords" Dance. And two, you can make your Starmie Timid as none of its moves are based on physical Attack stat.

    @bruno: You may consider Sturdy or Analytic for Magnezone. I don't think the computer switches out anyway as long as it can cause any damage or status. / I was also about to say "Weavile" problem then I saw Extremespeed.
  8. Nickscor

    Nickscor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    729
    Try not to post a team here unless you've actually gotten a win streak!

    Allow me to teach you something useful first. Magnezone prefers Sturdy as the AI hardly switches unless its been Tricked to a status move. Since it's Lv 50, change its spread to 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 248 Spe so you don't waste EVs.

    Why in the hell are you running Hasty on Dragonite? What good is Fire Blast if you're going to be boosting your Attack anyways?

    Terrakion looks ok, I'd personally run something other than Air Balloon.

    Subway operates completely different from the standard BW metagame, so do take note of that when you actually play the Subway.
  9. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Fine

    Dragonite has already a great bulk, but the Special Attack is quite low, so i prefere Hasty rather than Jolly, and anyway Fire Punch sucks (low bp, Iron Barbs fucks up Multiscale, etc.)

    When Dragonite is ko, and happens often, my team is really weak to Ground attacks, and Air Balloon somehow repairs. It's also for Gliscor, which can't Earthquake if the balloon is intact, and i can spam Stone Edge

    That's pretty hard to do, most of times i predict switches and then i get pwned by Thunder Waves and such
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    @Bruno Magno: Some of Nickscor's points are valid (in my opinion), but some are not accurate or I do not agree with. Here are my comments:

    - Your EV spread is actually ok. The ones he mentioned are actually inefficient. With your EVs (assuming Jolly {flawless IVs} since that was his recommendation), your Dragonite would have 167 / 186 / 115 / 108 / 120 / 145. With his spread, Dragonite would have 167 / 185 / 116 / 108 / 121 / 144 ... i.e. Attack and Speed drop by 1 point while Defense and Special Defense increased by 1 point, which is not anymore efficient than your spread. However, 244 Attack 244 Speed also gets the same 185 and 144 Attack/Speed, which means 8 EVs are wasted doing 248 EVs on 2 stats. Instead you could be doing:
    4 HP 244 Attack 4 Def 4 Sp Def 252 Speed to get: 167 / 185 / 116 / 108 / 121 /145, which gets you one more speed (assuming you want max speed). Just as a rule of thumb, unless you have 30 (or even #) IV, basically every time you want to increase or decrease a stat by 1 point, you should be increasing or decreasing the EVs by 8, unless it has no EVs, in which case, the first 4 EVs would gain you an extra stat point. I.e. with 4 HP 244 Attack 4 Def 4 Sp Def 252 Speed, you're essentially losing 1 attack stat point (8 EVs), in exchange for 2 stat points (Def and Sp Def -> since they have 0 EVs, it only takes 4 EVs to increase stat by 1). Hope that made sense.

    - I understand why you would want Fire Blast. Dragonite's SpA is ok, but without EV investment, it won't attack very hard. So that's an issue, but my main issue isn't that though. It's the fact that you'll only be using it against steel types... And then, you look at the rest of your team. You have HP Fire Magnezone and Terrakion. Pokemon 4x weak to fire will die to Magnezone's HP Fire. Steel types not 4x weak to fire are all at least 2x weak to Fighting, except for Metagross and Bronzong I think. And then this is the part where I'd say, if Dragonite is at +1 Attack, you're better off (or at least just as good) EQing Metagross and Heatproof Bronzong, and HP Fire will deal with Levitate Bronzong fine. That way, Dragonite can go for Jolly if you want too without lowering defense. That said, with Hone Claws and Extremespeed, I'd more likely go with Adamant. Of course, totally your choice. I do realize that your main purpose is Hone Claws Dragon Rush, not Hone Claws Extremespeed, so Jolly is valid, especially since Dragon Rush has flinch chance too.

    - Terrakion. It would be ideal to have something not weak to fighting and ground entirely, so you won't have doubled up weaknesses with Magnezone. Of course, not much else can really match Terrakion's speed and attack, so if that's what you really want, then sure. Stone Edge will miss in crucial times though, just in case you didn't know.

    In general, for Dragon-Steel combo teams, I usually have a water type as my 3rd pokemon, mainly for extra ice and fire resist. For me, it's usually been either Milotic or CM-Rest Suicune, neither of which care about Twave, which is the main "ugh :(" about Dragon-Steel combo teams that do not involve Garchomp. In fact, I can see that you might have some trouble with water types in your team. Magnezone is not that fast and it does not resist water. Dragonite is weak to ice attacks which many water types carry, and of course Terrakion is weak to water, so just something to look out for. There isn't any single water type that could just power through your team of course, but a trainer with multiple / all water types might give you trouble, especially if it's Ground/Water types like Swampert which doesn't care about Magnezone and probably has defenses to survive one +1 Dragon Rush from Dragonite. Like it might take 1 or 1.5 pokemon to finish off something like a swampert, and then if you face another 2 water types (which isn't uncommon at all), it'd be a tough match.

    If you end up not using Terrakion as your last slot, then maybe there's a bit more justification for Fire Blast on Dragonite, but yah, Dragonite's SpA is decent but not amazing, and without EVs to back it up, it's a bit hard to justify it, unless you're only planning to ever use it on 4x weak pokemon.

    But then...
    Fire Blast does not guarantee OHKO on 252 HP 0 SpDef Ferrothorn. Neither does +1 Fire Punch (since the 0 Sp Def Ferrothorn is Impish 252 Def), but +1 Fire Punch easily OHKOs the two Ferrothorn that are +Sp Def with 252 Sp Def (whereas Fire Blast will never OHKO the SpDef Ferrothorns without a crit). True, there's Iron Barbs, and yes I do realize that Fire Blast does not absolutely need the +1 for accuracy too. Then there's Scizor which Fire Punch is totally fine. There's Forretress which is a 2HKO either way due to sturdy.

    And, by the way, even if Dragonite was +SpA with 252 SpA, Fire Blast still only has a low chance to OHKO the two Ferrothorns that are +SpDef nature, so if your reasoning for Fire Blast is mainly for Ferrothorn, you might be better off using EQ/Superpower/BrickBreak/Roost/etc. (just leaving Ferrothorn to Magnezone or Terrakion), or just go with Fire Punch.

    If you REALLY want Fire Blast, I'd suggest trying Salamence instead. Dragonite without Roost means Multiscale is likely only to last a single turn (Leftovers won't get it back to 100% from an attack most of the time, if ever at all). Salamence can usually survive a non-ice attack as well, so with better speed and special attack, would make a much better user of Fire Blast. OF course, there's Dragonite's ES, which does work neatly with +Attack moves like hone claws.

    That's all I could think of I think. Oh, actually one more thing.
    Stone Edge:
    - can 2HKO the no Defensive EV Gliscor
    - has low chance 2HKO the 252 HP 0Def Gliscor
    - has no chance to 2HKO the 0 HP 252 Def Gliscor
    - cannot guarantee 3HKO 252 HP 252 Def Impish Gliscor (that's the baton passing one).

    Hope that helps.
    EDIT: Not sure why I felt like typing...
  11. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Long (open)


    Short (open)
    To change:
    Dragonite: 4 HP 244 Attack 4 Def 4 Sp Def 252 Speed

    Maybe:
    Terrakion: Cloyster / Slowbro
    Dragonite: Salamence; Some SAtk EV
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Superpower isn't legal with Multiscale*. TRE/R Inanimate made a list of all the Subway pokemon: http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/BattleSubwayData6.txt (Probably there's a nicer looking list somewhere else? I dunno), so you can see which pokemon has which EV spreads.

    Basically, if you do the calculations from that list of pokemon, you'll see that +1 Fire Punch is basically same or better in most cases even vs Ferrothorn (it's probably OHKO on Scizor either way - I didn't bother doing calcs) unless Multiscale is really that important to you (but as mentioned, without roost, you really just have one turn of Multiscale).

    *Maybe it's just me, but Multiscale without roost and without Dragon Dance is not that useful. The main selling point in Multiscale is the half damage at full health. With Roost, Dnite can reactivate it often, even stalling out ice moves (not that that's recommended due to freeze probability). In Dragon Dance's case, an offensive Dnite (without Roost) can survive nearly any hit (or 2) with Multiscale as it dragon dances (once or twice) and sweep. Without either of those, Dnite isn't going to make much use of that awesome Multiscale of his. Hone Claws does not work as well in DD's case since speed is not increased and Dragonite is not that fast even with Jolly/Hasty. Extremespeed remedies this speed problem and as such makes it a good use of Multiscale when combined with Hone Claws... which was why I suggested Adamant instead of Jolly, because that takes the most advantage over Multiscale ... if you have been following my train of thought.

    The second paragraph I typed which you didn't understand was talking about the fact that Fire Blast is mainly for steel types coverage, but +1 EQ actually hits non-4x-fire-weak either just as hard or harder than Fire Blast, and by not going mix, Dragonite can have better defense. Sorry my brain was wondering around everywhere during that paragraph.

    I know I commented a bit on this already, but just to make sure you understand what you're saying:
    "I know i can use Dragon Dance with Fire Punch, fine, but Scizor and Ferrothorn, the main threats, have a SDef lower than the Def, and also Forretress and Skarmory, even if they have Sturdy, so it can't be 1HKO. As Fire Blast has much more bp, and is the main reason to use Hone Claws, i'd prefere to keep it"
    - I talked about the first part already, but just to reiterate:
    --> There are 4 Ferrothorns in Subway. All of them are 2HKO'd by no EV Fire Blast and Fire Punch. Two of them are +Sp Def (and actually have higher SpDef than Def)... those two are OHKOd by +1 Fire Punch.

    --> Your reasoning for Fire Blast vs Forretress goes the same for Fire Punch. Without Sturdy, Fire Blast OHKOs Forretress (didn't do calc, but probably it does). However, it'll be a 2HKO because of Sturdy. Fire Punch does not OHKO Forretress, but will 2HKO. So, Sturdy makes both Fire Punch and Fire Blast 2HKOs. Without Sturdy, Fire Blast has an advantage. With Sturdy, Fire Punch and Fire Blast are the same.
    EDIT: Ok, well, I'll maybe give a point for Fire Blast on this one, because there IS a Custap explosion Forretress. Fire Blast + ES will KO the Forretress before it custap explodes (or custap spikes, whatever), whereas +0 Fire Punch + ES does not KO, so at no Hone Claws boost, Fire Blast + ES has 85% to KO Forretress without taking any damage (assuming Forretress lays hazard on first turn ... which it will). That said, facing Forretress (especially that one, it's best to Hone Claws first turn regardless of Fire Blast/Fire Punch anyway... no point not trying to set up on something that can't hurt you. Sorry for triple negative. I.e. should set up on something that can't hurt you. And... with 1 Hone Claws, Fire Punch and Fire Blast are on even grounds again as Hone Claws+Fire Punch+ES and Hone Claws + Fire Blast + ES both are guaranteed KOs. ...

    --> For Scizor, Fire Punch >= Fire Blast, and here is why. +0 Fire Punch apparently has 99% chance to OHKO both of the non-Occa Scizors with 244 Attack EVs (with 252 Attack EVs, OHKO is guaranteed). So, Dragonite OHKOs Scizor even when it did not have any Hone Claws, whereas with Fire Blast, it will only OHKO 85% of the time due to accuracy. Now, what about Occa Scizor (since half of the Scizors have Occa in Subway)? Occa Scizor is not OHKOd by Fire Blast. Fire Punch is still a guaranteed 2HKO obviously. Now Fire Blast only has 0.85 * 0.85 = 72% chance to 2HKO due to accuracy. With Hone Claws, both moves are guaranteed 2HKO, so if Dnite has a Hone Claws already when facing Occa Scizor, both moves are equal. (I.e. in summary, with no boost, Fire Punch > Fire Blast. With boost, Fire Punch = Fire Blast, so in general, Fire Punch >= Fire Blast).

    --> Regarding the last sentence in that quote... I'm no expert in damage calculations, but I do know that damage is based on AttackStat * Base Power. After 1 Hone Claws increasing Attack and Accuracy -->
    Fire Blast is: 120 (Dragonite's Special Attack at Level 50 no EVs neutral nature) x 120 = 14400
    +1 Fire Punch is: 185 (Dnite's Attack, 244 Attack EV, lvl 50, neutral nature) x 75 x 1.5 = 20812, which is 44% higher.

    The fact is that at +1, Fire Punch is effectively 112 base power vs Fire Blast's 120. Yes, Fire Punch is still lower base power, but backed up by a much higher attack stat.

    Not saying Fire Punch is for sure the way to go or better, but the reasons you gave do not really support your argument very well. That's all.
  13. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
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    1,070
    posting only to say the the subway hax is getting worse each day...I bred and trained stuff all day long (Shift Gear Moody Smeargle, Jump´s Whimsi with a different EV spread, Jolly MoxieDos and Adamant Scarfchomp), now I wanted just to have a bit of fun but

    Subway =/= fun

    using Whimsi-Shuckle-Haxorus (btw that Whimsi is broken lol) and met 2 U-Turners and 6 stat uppers in the first 8-10 battles, now this (BAN ME PLEASE) Chicken 1

    Blaziken 1 Salac Berry 176 154 111 130 81 121 Hi Jump Kick Counter Flamethrower Will-O-Wisp

    was at -4 atk / -6 spA after Charm, Memento, Struggle Bugs and Power split, PP wasted HJK and then I switch in Haxorus, letting Shuckle get WoWed so that Haxo doesn´t get burnt on the swotch in, only to get a CH burning Flamethrower in the face, followed by another CH flamethrower, what the fuck

    now Shuckle still lives against Hone Claw BPing Absol -> Breloom and in the process of stalling Mach Punch...I gave up after like 60 mach punches or so (exaggerating)...I love this game...

    I won´t even write how I lost my latest doubles streak with TerraVile at 135, because it would be a pain to rewatch the video... Suicune suffers the "oversized hax - enter here" target all over its body and it simply can´t win any close battle for me

    OK I´m a masochist, here it is:

    #135 vs Claydol, Steelix, Ampharos, Weavile:

    1. switch out kion, latios in, vile punch, clay 15% left, earth power, lati unaffected, quake, vile 65/146
    2. vile switch, cune in, pulse, clay KO, lix quake, cune 165/205 - foe amphy
    3. dragon pulse, scald, lix KO, amphy t-wave cune - foe vile
    4. lati protect, night slash, lati protected, t-wave, lati protected, cune toxic amphy
    5. lati protect, failed, night slash, lati KO, amphy t-wave, cune already paralyzed, scald vile - my kion
    6. vile ice punch, kion frozen solid, amphy t-wave, failed (frozen), cune scald amphy
    7. vile night slash cune, kion frozen solid, amphy rest, chesto, toxic vile
    8. vile punch, kion frozen solid, charge beam, kion KO, cune chesto-rest - my vile
    9. fake out ampharos, static, night slash, cune 166/205, cune CM, amphy flinched
    10. fully para, night slash, cune 126/205, cune scald amphy, amphy t-wave cune, toxic, vile 1% left
    11. night slash, cune 81/205, amphy haiper beam, vile KO, cune fully para, vile toxic dmg, vile KO
    12. recharge, scald, 5% left
    13. amphy rest, cune rest
    14. fast asleep
    15. fast asleep
    16. scald, charge beam 151/205, spA boost
    17. scald, t-wave
    18. rest, fully para
    19. fast asleep, fully para
    20. scald, asleep
    21. woke up, charge beam, cune 65/205, spA boost, scald
    22. haiper beam, cune KO

    Wasn´t that bad...shitty game deciding ice punch freeze, game deciding static fully para on my vile, I get no scald burn whatsoever and then a double fully para when I needed to get in a scald...and obviously I don´t know how to use Cune because Charge beam only has 10 PP and I should´ve stalled it, then again I´m sure a boosted Hyper Beam would´ve killed me with a CH or something...

    Oh yeah, had saved a video from an earlier battle in that streak, where

    Lanturn 3 Petaya Berry 200 70 99 128 117 87 Surf Discharge Thunder Wave Ice Beam

    didn´t use Discharge even once 1 vs 1 against Suicune (it used T-wave and then Ice Beam)...it would´ve been a really close match if it started Discharging, it never did, so Toxic killed it in 6

    Oh yeah, using toxic over ice beam on cune to ease the pain battles against waters (absorb, storm drain)...
  14. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Even when they're the last Pokemon left, Pokemon with hit all attacks like Discharge and Earthquake tend to reads it as if their last parter was still alive.

    For example, if the last two Pokemon were Ludicolo and Lanturn 3, and you KO'd Ludicolo, the Lanturn won't use Discharge because it thinks it will damage Ludicolo, who is dead (will still use it if something is in KO range, though).

    If it was something like Archeops and Gyarados, and you KO'd Archeops, Gyarados will have no issues spamming Earthquake.
  15. Shinryu

    Shinryu

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    Just for what it's worth, I'm guessing using Sky Drop glitch with Gravity to outhax the AI is probably frowned upon for record setting, since that's why no record has it? XD

    Joking aside, I like all the info in this thread, pretty interesting seeing all the different perspectives on teams. After being killed off by the the most annoyingly fucking retarded Blissey the other night (which spammed Minimize incessantly and conveniently had Mud Bomb to damage my ttar and excadrill for eventual KOs and toxic fun for the rest), figured I'd give this thread a look around. Definitely some nice resources here as well.
  16. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    Show Hide
    Dragonite (4 SpAtk) vs 252/252+ Ferrothorn - [Fire Blast] - 65% - 77%
    Dragonite (4 SpAtk) vs 252/4 Occa Scizor - [Fire Blast] - 61% - 72%
    -------
    Dragonite (Adamant 252 Atk) vs 252/252+ Ferrothorn - [Fire Punch] - 64% - 75%
    Dragonite (Adamant 252 Atk) vs 252/4 Scizor - [Fire Punch] - 65% - 76%


    The damage is almost the same, and these are the main threat, so the power / attack ratio doesn't count. It's true that Fire Blast has 85% Acc, but:
    1) Fire Punch gets recoil from Iron Barbs (Ferrothorn, Ferroseed) and Rocky Helmet (Crustle, Bouffalant)
    2) I send Dragonite only if i'm sure i can get a free Hone Claws, otherwise, with two moves being inaccurate and one (Extremespeed) with a low bp, it's almost useless
  17. Robo Mike

    Robo Mike

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    Siiiiigh. :|

    Sometimes I hate the subway, but it just makes me go back for more...

    Garchomp, Gastrodon vs Glaceon (match 56 or so)...

    The foe Glaceon's Quick Claw let it move first! Glaceon used Blizzard. It's super effective! Garchomp fainted!
    Glaceon used Blizzard. Gastrodon used Earth Power!
    The foe Glaceon's Quick Claw let it move first! Glaceon used Blizzard. Gastrodon fainted!

    Yeah, it got 2 quick claw activations in 3 turns. And Blizzard hit all the time.
    The last quick claw wasn't even necessary for Espeon to win. It's as if the game wanted to tell me that I can't fight the hax...

    I give up. I'll go hit the Pokemon Musical.
  18. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    @Bruno Magno: If you're keen on having a powerful-not-100%-accurate special attack for that slot, fire blast is probably the best to go with, since your main choice of attack should be Dragon Rush, meaning steels are the only ones you'll be using your other move on, so it should come down to: Fire / Fighting / Ground move.

    Regarding Roost vs Fire Blast... heh, sorry, the more I think about this, the more I think Salamence will just do a better job with Hone Claws Dragon Rush. (In case you're wondering how that even relates to Roost) The way I see it is ... Roost helps Dragonite stay in a lot longer by constantly reactivating Multiscale. Dnite wants to stay longer so it can get its Hone Claws Boost(s). It wants to get its HC Boosts in order to increase power and accuracy of Dragon Rush. Yes, there are other reasons like improving Fire Blast accuracy potentially, or improving ES's power, but the main reason should be Dragon Rush. Salamence makes a better Dragon Rush user due to higher speed.

    In the past (i.e. before Gen V), Jolly Dragonite has always been seen as an inferior Salamence since Adamant Salamence can has both higher speed and higher power (while Jolly Salamence has even higher speed with more or less the same power). Extremespeed lets Dragonite differentiate a bit, and Multiscale makes Dragonite awesome, but only if Dragonite is at 100% health. So yes, roost makes sense if you are using Dragonite, and Jolly roost also makes sense because your Dnite does not have DD to boost speed, and speedy roost is definitely necessary in order to re-activate Multiscale. Only problem is that even with Jolly, Dnite is still slower than plenty of things and might not be able to get that roost in before it faints. But well, I have only ever tried Dnite with DD (with and without roost... and adamant), so maybe Dnite outspeeds more things than I give it credit for. I guess you will find out!

    Good luck!
  19. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I've been amusing myself in doubles by trolling the opponents with this:

    Accelgor @ Choice Scarf
    Mild with 252hp/196sp att/60speed
    0 IVs in def and sp. def, 31 in everything else

    Final Gambit
    U-turn
    Bug Buzz
    Energy Ball

    It isn't really that good but it has been satisfying to instantly take out things that have troubled me before, like Trick Room Bronzong, Aerodactyl, and Glaceon. It can kill at least 70% of the subway at full health. The 0 defence IVs encourage stuff to not use Fake Out (works for Weavile, probably won't work for Ambipom).

    I teamed it with Life Orb Infernape, with Metagross and Hydreigon in back. Battles are super quick, but I only tried it once and I lost early due to Glaceon avoiding Metagross's Bullet Punch after setting up Hail.

    Not sure why I posted this but I'm having lots of fun with it.
  20. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Cool, did you find that Choice Scarf was necessary? (i.e. would it have been better with Focus Sash or Bug Gem/Bug boost item or something like that?)
  21. Chill

    Chill

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    I made it to 39 last night in super doubles. *sigh* I think I could have made it further but my team needs work and so does my brain.
  22. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I wouldn't say it's necessary, since Accelgor is so fast anyway, but I like how I can outspeed all other choice scarfers since it means that I can kill something with Final Gambit before they attack. This is especially important for Entei and Terrakion because you can never be sure which set they are running when you see one (much like most legendaries). It's better to be certain that you outspeed them rather than hope they aren't using their Choice Scarf sets. Choice Scarf also allows me to invest as much in hp AND special attack as possible since Accelgor is so fast that not much speed investment is necessary (it still has poor damage output though).

    It does suck that I lock myself into an attack since there was one time where I was able to kill a Seismitoad with Energy Ball but then I couldn't use Final Gambit after, which would have been awesome. Focus Sash was actually what I was going to run and I guess it is a good choice, but it doesn't really gel with Final Gambit (yay I survived but now my main attack does 1 hp damage lol). On the plus side it would give me some flexibility when it comes to attacking, since I can choose to kill straight up with Final Gambit or just try attacking with non-sacrificial attacks. An attack boosting item could work too. For both of those items though, it makes it difficult to invest sufficiently in special attack while keeping Accelgor's hp high AND still having it outspeed all non-scarf pokemon (and some scarfed ones too). It seems kind of pointless to use Final Gambit in that case, and by extention it seems kind of pointless to use Accelgor over a more powerful attacker!

    I like Choice Scarf though. Being able to outspeed and kill any threat with 187 hp or below that isn't a ghost-type is awesome (by the way it sucks that this is a fighting attack).

    p.s. The description on Bulbapaedia about Final Gambit is confusing. I read it to mean that it ignores an opponent's Focus Sash but I tried to attack a Focus Sash Cryogonal and it survived. I think they were saying that if a Focus Sash holder uses Final Gambit, they will faint (i.e. Focus Sash won't save the Final Gambit user). Haven't encountered a Sturdy pokemon yet.
  23. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    It's meant as the user will faint regardless of Sturdy or Focus Sash, much like using Selfdestruct/Explosion. If the opponent has Sturdy or Focus Sash, they will survive with 1 HP if they would be OHKO'd by Final Gambit.
  24. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Yeah well I know that now lol. Guess it WAS too good to be true! Oh well, that just ends up being something else to look out for before I attack.
  25. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    Long (open)
    Short (open)
    [​IMG]
    Hasty | Multiscale | Leftovers
    4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    - Dragon Rush
    - Fire Blast
    - Hone Claws
    - Extremespeed​

    How the fuck can i fill Roost in?

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