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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Sounds exciting! Good luck!

    I'm just at 126 with the Stoutland-Tentacruel-Dragonite team. Boy, Tentacruel sure makes battles slow (especially when compared to Volcarona). And I did end up going for Rest > Acid Spray, ever since 84 actually. Ironically, Rest has never been used even once yet, while there have been about 4 times where Tentacruel was fully set up facing a Water immune pokemon (Vaporeon, Lapras, Toxicroak, Poliwrath). Other than Lapras (which I PP-stalled til struggle), I actually just PP-stalled out of the essential attacking PPs and then switch to Dragonite to set up. But yah, those battles take so long.

    Rest does make more sense though. I can't imagine losing because of having rest instead of acid spray. Of course I could use another move entirely too... but... nah.
  2. PeterT


    Feb 22, 2012
    A while ago, I tried a team with Tentacruel but instead of Clear Body I used Rain Dish because Politoed was in front. Instead of Acid Spray I had Sludge Bomb but Acid Spray might indeed be better for the Sp. Def drop. I'll have to try that again sometime.

    On another note: Anyone ever tried Staraptor? I'm breeding a Reckless Staraptor with Double-Edge, Brave Bird, Close Combat and U-Turn. Adamant nature because I'm planning to scarf it.
    As backup I'm thinking about Swampert with Curse, Waterfall, Earthquake and Ice Beam (No access to Avalanche). I don't know about a third one yet but it has to resist Grass moves so I can safely switch out Swampert.
  3. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    Staraptor's brilliant, Brave Bird and Close Combat can decimate teams, but I'm not sure what the usefulness of Double Edge is - the only type to resist Flying and Fighting is Electric/Flying, which would mean Zapdos and Thundurus, and I don't think Staraptor should be staying in on either of them. Personally, on my Jolly BandRaptor w/ Intimidate, I have Quick Attack for the last moveslot for a last resort priority attack, although you may not want to use that.

    You'll also want an Ice resist since they're the most likely type to screw you over in the Subway, so probably a Steel type for your last teammate.
  4. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Just lost at 120 wins with Whimsicott/Uxie/Dragonite, more consectutive crits. I think someone is trying to tell me to use something more original lol. I may try it again some other time but for now I'm moving on. I already have something else in mind for singles. Basically I'm gonna try lead Zoroark again:

    Zoroark @ Focus Sash
    Dark Pulse
    Flamethrower (or Focus Blast maybe, probably not, too inaccurate)

    I don't expect much, but who knows.

    Also, does anyone think it would be possible to make the starter-exclusive Pledge moves work? I've been thinking about it for a while but nothing came out of it. Fire + Water Pledge (serene grace effect) isn't really worth it probably. The Starters can't really abuse it well and it doesn't last long enough to be worth it really. Water + Grass Pledge (speed-lowering effect) could work though. Grass + Fire Pledge (passive damage effect) could be good too. Probably too gimmicky though...
  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    I did try the adamant reckless scarf set (with Double-Edge). Reckless Double-Edge OHKOed Thundurus, so staying in on it is fine. It's cool and all, but then I find that if you're going to lead with Scarf Raptor... you might as well just use Scarf Darmanitan which hits even harder and resists ice and is weak to ground (providing for easier dragon or flying type switch in).

    I'm at 154 right now with Stoutland-Tentacruel-Dragonite. Tentacruel did finally use rest a few times in much needed times (so Rest > Acid Spray was good). I'm not super confident that I'll be able to get back up to 276 or near that with Tentacruel. Getting critted when Stoutland's facing Mamoswine lead almost costed me the match as Mamoswine deals a fair bit of damage to both even after two Charms and an intimidate. We'll see.

    EDIT: Currently at 189! I was just going to get past 178 today, which was my 2nd highest record after the 276 with Volcarona. For whatever reason, after 182, I decided to go for another 7. Another close call vs Mamoswine lead. I'm thinking that maybe I should just flash Mamoswine leads and hope for the best with Dragonite... Hah, I don't know. This time, i actually KO'd it with Tentacruel after Stoutland fainted and *hope* that the last two can be handled by Dragonite or Tentacruel. 2nd Pokemon was Wailord (with Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Hydro Pump, Fissure), so it was pretty easy to handle. Even Dragonite itself could probably have stalled Wailord out of Blizzards and then set up.

    EDIT2: Currently at 238! I still won't put my bets on beating my 276 streak, but it's looking possible! Hope I didn't jynx myself :P
  6. Eppie


    Aug 26, 2008
    It doesn't stack with Serene Grace, just in case you were going to try it.

    Edit: Nevermind, it's not like there is a starter with Serene Grace xD.
  7. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Yeah I know it doesn't stack. Shame, because 100% Flinching Air Slashes from Togekiss would have been fun.

    Actually going over all the fire and water starters, they can actually abuse it better than I initially thought. 60% burning Scalds and things like that are cool. Probably not reliable though.
  8. ~Mercury~


    Nov 1, 2010
    Some cool new streaks here, great work!

    Well, no new streaks from me yet (I played a bit in Subway, but nothing notable so far), though, as now 4th gen records are listed, I'd like to refer to this post, where I posted a older Arcade Doubles streak.

    Over the last days I sponanteously gave the good old Battle Factory (okay, I should't say "good old" when i'm talking about Platinum) another chance, Level 50 Singles.
    Factory is the only coloured print that I don't have in Pt Frontier... and as expected, my new tries didn't change this.
    Some streaks ended at 21 with a loss against the Factory leader, few even before (though the first 14 battles usually are not really challenging at Level 50), and the rest either at 29, when I only got bad pokemon in the start choice or somewhere on the way to 28.

    My best result were 31 wins, then I misplayed badly against Charizard 2 and lost an otherwise easy battle because of this (I had Rhydon 2 (the one with sash), Metagross 2 and Lapras 3 vs. the opposing Charizard 2, Breloom 2 and Salamence 2, seriously, what the hell was I thinking when I switched out Rhydon to Metagross after the charge up turn of Solar Beam when nothing in my team can take a Blaze boosted Overheat... Breloom has no chance against Metagross and Salamence also loses without a Fire Fang flinch, also both are beaten by Lapras one on one)

    But the main reason for posting here was my latest loss... a horrible one, just for compensation lol.
    It was battle #26 and I had 24 switches, which is pretty good, and my team seemed to be relatively solid too.
    As you all know, no one likes to lose against Bright Powder-Sand Veil-Garchomp. And you'll probably agree that losing against Astonish Dugtrio is even worse. Losing against those two because of 2 crits and 2 flinches in four attacking turns doesn't make things better.
    But what was really icing on the cake, that I, instead of switching my lead Toxicroak for Froslass, accidentially gave away the SD/EQ/AA-Gliscor I had ...

    Though such a loss is really frustrating, I'll probably try again tomorrow, "never give up"...
  9. pifou69


    Feb 17, 2012
    Could you explain me something.

    I won my 161 double match, but I don't understand why. Don't remember all turns, but remember the last one.
    Ferrothorn with about 70% HP vs Armaldo with red HP and infected with Leech Seed
    Armaldo X-scissor, CH, Ferrothorn KO
    I thought I've lost, BUT Armaldo faints (Iron barbs or Leech seed)

    I thought I've lost, but I win. Don't understand why
  10. Eppie


    Aug 26, 2008
  11. KimTheHuman


    Nov 12, 2011
    I'm kinda new to the battle subway but I've given it a go. I'm at 27 right now which isn't much compared to what I've seen here but I'm really enjoying it. I'm leaning towards a hyper offense team at the moment so here's a glimpse of my team ( I'm kinda lacking pkmns from past gen so I'll have to make due with these)

    Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    IVs and EVs both unsure since it's from my in-game team ;-;
    -U Turn
    -Hammer Arm
    -Flare Blitz

    Starmie @ life orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 21/xx/x/25/x/26
    EVs: 4hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spd
    - Ice Beam

    Haxorus @ Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, - SpA)
    IVs: 31/31/x/x/x/31
    EVs: 4hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
    -Dual Chop
    -Dragon Dance (same haxorus I use in wifi :s)


    Garchomp @ Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 31/31/x/x/x/31
    EVs: 4HP, 252Atk, 252Spd
    -Stone Edge
    -Swords Dance/Fire Fang

    I do know the ivs of Starmie and Darmanitan are messed up and it's probably going to kill me when the opponent's poke become perfect. I'm in the process of breeding a better one atm.

    I'm really debating between the Garchomp and Haxorus. I really do miss Mold Breaker but I'm scared of base 100s outspeeding and KOing me. When using haxorus, I was stopped cold by some trainer using Mandibuzz, Dragonite and Salamence. Probably loss due to misplay since I should have saved Starmie for Salamence and let Haxorus deal with Dargonite. Wasn't thinking straight that time. I tried fixing the 4x ice weakness of Garchomp with the focus sash and it does seem more useful that Choice Band in many situations . I'm also in a dilemma when it comes to trick room teams but I'll usually stall it out but are there any huge obvious flaws with my team at the moment~? I haven't gone far but those are the problems I have atm. I am really interested in the TrickScarf strategy but are there any good trick users available in 5th gen~?

    All constructive criticism is well appreciated and sorry in advance if I do sound 'noobish' I'm still a novice :D Good Luck with your streaks and thanks for taking your time to read this :)
  12. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streak: 128

    1. Omastar (M) "PAPPUG"
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Weak Armor
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31-3-30-31-30-30
    EV spread: 10-0-0-252-0-248
    Lv.50: 146-59-145-183-90-106
    ~ Muddy Water
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Shell Smash
    ~ Hidden Power Rock 70

    2. Mienshao (M)
    Item: Wide Lens
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Nature: Jolly
    IVs: 31-31-30-17-30-31
    EV spread: 6-252-0-0-0-252
    Lv.50: 141-177-80-97-80-172
    ~ Fake Out
    ~ Rock Slide
    ~ Quick Guard
    ~ Hi Jump Kick

    3. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 6-0-0-252-0-252
    Lv.50: 156-99-100-182-130-178
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Protect
    ~ Thunderbolt

    4. Metagross „DOOMSDAY“
    Item: Occa Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-21-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
    Lv.50: 155-205-150-99-111-122
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Bullet Punch

    A variation of OmaTop. Haven´t used Mienshao so far in the Subway, it´s pretty good. Fixes some of the problems I had with TechniTop, Quick Guard is there to protect Oma from priority attacks when at 1 HP. Muddy Water still has like 50% accuracy for me lol. I should try Surf with Jynx or Croak. Main team weakness as with (almost) every speedy team is Trick Room. Other than that, very solid.

    #129 vs Veteran - Lapras, Dusknoir, Snorlax, Leafeon:

    1. HJK, Lapras 1% left, Shell Smash, Lapras Body Slam Mien, Trick Room.
    2. Noir Shadow Sneak Oma, Weak Armor, Lapras ChestoRest, Mien Slide, Oma Muddy Water.
    3. Noir Destiny Bond, Lapras Rest, Mien Slide, CH on Noir, Noir KO, took down Mien with it, Oma HP Rock, Lapras KO.
    - my Meta, foe Leafeon & Lax
    4. Lax Quake, Oma KO, Leaf Blade Meta, Meta Ice Punch Leafeon.
    - my Latios
    5. Lax Double-Edge CH, Latios KO, Leafeon Scissor, Meta Iron Head, Lax Sitrus, TR ended.
    6. Meta Iron Head, Leafeon Scissor, Meta KO.

    It was the first set of 7 today and I was watching TV and not fully paying attention. Classic Peterko loss...
    Smuckem likes this.
  13. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Aww, yeah, Latios should have protected to stall out Trick Room. Then it would be a fairly certain win. :(

    I'm at 252 right now with my Stoutland-Tentacruel-Dragonite team. This will definitely be my last update until I either lose or beat somebody's record (i.e. my own).

    EDIT: Editing to say I finally made it over the 300 mark! :D Currently at 301! Pretty happy about that! After getting more and more familiar with this team... ... it's interesting, 90%+ of the time I don't even use Tentacruel. For example, in the last 21 battles, Tentacruel was only used twice. Once was vs curse Ferrothorn lead (Dragonite does not like all those recoil damage from Ferrothorn). The other time was vs Magmortar lead (Dragonite does not like Flame Body). It wasn't even because Dragonite "could not" set up on those. It's just not good to do so (Dragonite probably needs a crit to get rid of Ferrothorn without fainted from recoil haha). Froslass leads, Beartic leads, Articuno leads, Water leads that have blizzard or sometimes ice beam... ... most of the time Stoutland does the awesome job crippling such that I just get Dragonite to set up anyway because it sets up so much faster, and also because Tentacruel set ups somehow end up facing a water-immune 2nd or 3rd pokemon a quarter or a third of the time, which makes battles super long.

    Some ground types (like exploding Claydol) and a few electric types (Static, lightningrod, motor drive) are a bit annoying as I can't paralyze them, Dragonite doesn't like being paralyzed from static or from a faster electric type's twave (and it'll be faster because I cannot paralyze). And... of course Tentacruel fears electricity. Basically Mamoswine and electric types are the most troublesome so far.

    Next update... probably when I lose or when I get past 337, whichever comes first. :P
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Subway Super Singles Streak: 116


    Zoroark @ Focus Sash
    EVs: 4/0/0/252/0/252
    Stats: 136/102/80/172/80/172

    Dark Pulse


    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    EVs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
    Stats: 152/199/110/62/90/163

    Dragon Dance


    Milotic @ Leftovers
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 252/0/252/0/4/0
    Stats: 202/70/144/120/146/101

    Ice Beam

    This is just something I threw together. Probably not the best it could be but it worked well enough. This is not my first attempt at using Zoroark but this is my most successful attempt.

    Zoroark plays somewhat similarly to the standard Destiny Bond Gengar. Basically you try and kill the lead, and when the next thing comes out you use Memento to help Haxorus set up and sweep. It doesn't really work as well as I'd like though. Zoroark misses out on too many 2HKOs for my liking, 2HKOs that Gengar could probably achieve. Also, the speed isn't quite as good. Being outsped by Infernape sucks (I had to face the Focus Sash one once which sucks since I can't kill it with Counter). Gengar is better overall. Also, Counter didn't really prove to be THAT useful. I rarely used it and whenever I did the opponent would send out something faster, or with priority, preventing me from using Memento or attacking afterwards. I was unlucky obviously, but that move slot could probably be used for Grass Knot, Hidden Power or Focus Blast instead.

    Zoroark is cool though! There were many times where I could sweep teams 3-0, especially with help from Dark Pulse flinches, so it definitely works, and Memento makes things interesting. As for Illusion, I put Milotic in back as the disguise. It may seem odd since the type synergy isn't really outstanding, but this is actually preferred to take advantage of Counter. You actually WANT the opponent to use super effective physical moves to ensure that it does enough damage to get the KO with Counter. Of course, using something with similar weaknesses isn't a good idea (that would have made me fighting weak), so it's just a matter of using something that doesn't share weaknesses but doesn't cover resistances either. Counter is still a bit situational though and if I was to get rid of it I would probably use something that DID cover Zoroark's resistances.

    I felt like trying Haxorus, so I added it to the team. Memento helps it set up, though it doesn't always need it. Haxorus is powerful enough to get by with only 2 boosts which is often enough to sweep. Outrage has its faults but I like the extra power. Lum Berry is my preferred item to remove confusion and it allows for switch ins into slow status moves (I can use sub the next turn for an easy set up opportunity). It works fine and I wouldn't bother replacing it. It makes things easier.

    Suicune would probably be better than Milotic, since it has better stats and can actually take advantage of Memento better than Milotic. However, I don't have one currently, and Milotic was easier to obtain. Plus, Recover is awesome, and Suicune is used a lot and Milotic is a bit more interesting (though obviously I'm not the first guy to use Milotic in this way). Milotic is really good at stalling, and it can toxic-stall lots of things to death. It's power and speed isn't too bad for a defence pokemon either. Water-types with Rest ruin it though. I EVed it under the assumption that Marvel Scale WON'T activate, which I think was the right decision because it often doesn't.

    I lost to Socialite Saty who lead with Calm Mind + Rest Suicune. I probably could have won if it were any other Suicune, but that's the way it goes. I played badly anyway. For starters, I chose to attack it with Dark Pulse when I should have just used Memento. I at least managed to get Haxorus up to 3+ attack (it destroyed my sub on the third boost) since it chose to Calm Mind. I Outraged it but it just failed to kill (it was a 33% chance of KOing, so I didn't get lucky) and it killed me with Ice Beam. In the end, Milotic couldn't do anything to it. It Rested of Toxic and my other attacks did nothing to it. I couldn't kill me either, but it PP stalled me and I died to Struggle.

    I should have attacked Suicune with Haxorus at 2+ with a sub. I would lose the sub but I would have 2HKOed (I think). The backups were Zapdos and Regigigas and I think Haxorus could beat those guys ok assuming I didn't get unlucky (and Milotic could probably stall against Regigigas, but not Zapdos obviously).

    Actually, this would be a situation where Grass Knot would have been better on Zoroark. I probably wouldn't have beaten it directly but I could have gotton Suicune to use it Chesto Berry earlier. Then, hopefully Haxorus could have set up on it while it slept. Hard to tell for sure though.

    Too bad. I lost. But it was fast and fun, and I got a longer streak than I thought I would, so it's all good. As for what I do next... well I'm thinking of trying out my Trick Room teams again but I don't know yet.
  15. Manveru123


    Feb 27, 2012
    Welcome. I started playing Super Singles recently, testing a bunch of different teams. So far my record is 53 wins, with a team of:

    Cloyster @Focus Sash
    EVs 252 ATK/SPEED
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Razor Shell
    - Shell Smash

    My MVP. After one shell smash, he outspeeds almost everything. Breaks sturdy and sashes thanks to multi hit attacks. Has a bunch of 3-0 sweeps. I love this guy.

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    EVs 252 HP/DEF
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    I usually send him out when he's safe to get 6/6 with CM. After that, he's nearly unbeatable. Obviously I can't do that against enemies with STAB electric/grass attacks, so here comes number 3.

    Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
    EVs 252 HP/88 DEF/168 SPDEF
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed

    Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet makes physical attackers cry. This guy can outstall pretty much everything that doesn't have a fighting or fire attack.

    How I lost? I don't remember which NPC was that, but..
    TURN 1
    I send out Cloyster, he sends out Mienshao. Mienshao uses Fake Out. Cloyster flinches.
    TURN 2
    Mienshao HJK. Cloyster KO. Suicune out.
    TURN 3
    Mienshao HJK. Suicune down to 40% (more than I expected). Suicune Scald. Mienshao down to 60% (not sure, typing from memory).
    TURN 4
    Mienshao HJK. Suicune KO. Ferrothorn out.
    TURN 5
    Ferrothorn Protect. Mienshao crashes.
    TURN 6
    Ferrothorn Protect. Mienshao crashes, KO. Roserade out.

    I'm just gonna say that this Roserade was defensively built and it's the only pokemon I ever saw who can outstall my Ferro :(

    When I met that Mienshao again, I switched to Ferro first turn, he did Fake Out and ate Iron Barbs + Helmet damage, then crashed twice due to Protects. In the worst case scenario he'd go down along with my Fero, and since I get free Cloyster send-in, it's fine.

    Does anyone have any suggestions about my team? Improvements perhaps? I tried a lot of different combinations, this seems to work best so far, but maybe I'm missing something?
  16. NoCheese

    NoCheese "Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Well, you have two pokemon weak to fighting with no fighting resistance, which is usually a dangerous place to be. There's a lot of fairly hard hitting fighting types in the subway this generation, and even with Suicune's nice defense, she can have a difficult time walling powerful enough stab fighting attacks, and without a resist, you are very much at risk to an untimely critical hit. You also have two pokemon that are electric weak, but at least you've got a resist for that in Ferrothorn.

    I've tried Cloyster before, but it's a hard pokemon to build a team around because of all its weaknesses. Peterko's Garchomp, Cloyster, Suicune and Astync's Garchomp, Cloyster, Ferrothorn teams are probably good places to start though if you are looking to build a Cloyster streak.

    Peterko's streak is really big (275), but he hasn't updated the first page with it yet. It's here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4119380&postcount=1425.

    Asytnc's can be found in the main listing on the first page of this thread.
  17. Manveru123


    Feb 27, 2012
    I'm not too bothered about Cloyster's weaknesses, since his only job is to get as many Shell Smashes as he can without dying and kill as much as he can afterwards. Situations where he dies to opponent's first pokemon are extremely rare, which is why I went with two semi-stallers to support him - sometimes I switch at the start when I'm up against a counter (like Lanturn or Empoleon). I see your point about fighting resist though, burn from Scald can be too unreliable. Thanks.

    EDIT: I'm trying Spiritomb instead of Suicune. Same EV spread, held item and nature. Dark Pulse/Calm Mind/Pain Split/Hidden Power Fighting. I'm gonna see how it goes and think about replacing Ferrothorn too if needed, hopefuly not.
  18. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    My Single Battle Subway streak ends at 349 streak!

    The team and movesets are as follows:
    Team and Movesets (open)

    1. Stoutland / Intimidate / Jolly @ Focus Sash
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 2 / 31 / 31 (Yes lower Attack IV would be better, but whatever)
    EVs: 252 HP 4 Sp Def 252 Speed
    Level 50 Stats: 192 / 120 / 110 / 45 / 111 / 145
    Moves: Thunderwave / Charm / Sand-Attack / Snarl

    2. Dragonite / Multiscale / Adamant @ Leftovers
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 5 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 200 HP 252 Attack 44 Def 4 Sp Def 4 Speed
    Level 50 Stats: 192 / 204 / 121 / 96 / 121 / 101
    Moves: Dragon Dance / Substitute / Dragon Claw / Roost

    3. Tentacruel / Clear Body / Bold @ Black Sludge
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Sp Def
    Level 50 Stats: 187 / 69 / 128 / 100 / 141 / 120
    Moves: Acupressure / Substitute / Scald / Rest

    Team Notes (open)

    Stoutland is the crippler for Tentacruel or Dragonite to set up, usually Dragonite, about 90%+ of the time, because of the fact that it can set up on so many pokemon. It sets up a lot faster than Tentacruel, so I prefer to set Dragonite up if possible. With roost and Multiscale, Dragonite is bulky enough to set up on many things, even ice types, with the help of Stoutland's amazing crippling skills. Dragonite never fainted even once until battle #331, which I'll put on a hide in the next section.
    Notes on EVs/IVs/Nature:
    - Stoutland has the typical 252/4/252 EV spread. Bulk and Speed are both fairly important as a crippler, so it would make sense to allot the EVs to HP and Speed. Less HP can be used to improve Defense and Sp Def, but Stoutland has good enough Def and Sp Def that I did not really try to think of or calculate anything that might be better. The left over 4 EVs went to Sp Def for two reasons. 1) Stoutland already has Intimidate and Charm which helps immensely in the Defense department. Snarl is of course inferior to Charm in that regard. 2) Download Porygon2/Z will get Attack boost instead of Special Attack boost with those 4 extra Sp Def (and all Porygon2/Z are special attackers). After having played through 600+ battles with Stoutland, I actually think Stoutland would be better off with Timid 31 SpA instead of Jolly, because there are times where I want Snarl to do damage haha (mainly breaking opponent's sub), but I think it hardly matters. I'm not breeding another Stoutland to test if that turns out to be any better.

    - Tentacruel has good Sp Def, but not so good Def. So obvious choice is to maximize its defense capabilities by maximizing HP and Defense, and of course even then Sp Def is still better. To be honest, Tentacruel probably could make use of the 4 leftover EVs in SpA, but it probably does not matter. The fact is that even at +6 SpA, it still does not OHKO quite a few things. I did maximize PP for Acupressure, mainly such that Tentacruel can PP stall out water immune pokemon if needed, but from what I can recall, I never actually did fully PP stall out any water immune pokemon to struggle. I did PP them out of attacking moves and then switch to Dragonite to set up. That's the preferred way anyway.

    - Dragonite is the same Dragonite that Jumpman used. It probably does not need much explanation. It's just a really good set up pokemon with Multiscale and Roost. It can set up on even Rock/Ice/Dragon moves if Stoutland gives it enough crippling support (and it usually does, hence why I usually set up with Dragonite).

    Notes on Movesets:
    - Stoutland: Thunderwave, Charm, Snarl, and Flash together, along with Intimidate covers everything a crippler wishes to cover for, well with the exception of a few things like not being able to taunt, not being able to cripple a Clear Body pokemon other than Thunderwave, but you know, there are only 4 moveslots. Charm and Snarl cover both sides of the attack spectrum. Flash is needed on 3 occasions: 1) Belly Drummers, 2) Taunters, 3)when I'm not sure if opponent is physical or special. It's needed on those 3 occasions, but it's used much more than just those 3 occasions. For some attackers, whether physical or special, I might prefer to Sand-Attack after one charm/snarl if one charm/snarl is enough crippling on the attack. Just a note, Snarl is pretty good because it is an attack, so Special Attacking Taunters don't scare Stoutland. In the same way, Physical Taunters are also crippled by Stoutland from Intimidate, so that's what makes Stoutland a better crippler than others.

    E.g. (not a taunt example, but it's an example that happened fairly often, for when Intimidate is most useful) Vs Gallade, I don't Twave, because one of them has Lum Berry and speed ties Stoutland, so Twave might end up being wasted and I don't get any crippling done other than Intimidate. Instead I Charm first turn, switch to Tentacruel 2nd turn, then switch back in to intimidate 3rd turn. Gallade is at -4Attack now, so Dragonite can set up.

    - Dragonite's moveset should be self-explanatory

    - Tentacruel's moveset used to have Acid Spray over Rest, but I thought Rest would be more useful, and it was. Acid Spray was to lower opponent's Sp Def by 2 stages, so even Blissey (or Snorlax or whatever other pokemon including Calm Mind ones) cannot outstall Tentacruel, because Tentacruel's Scald sort of sucks sometimes even at +6, as I mentioned before. Moveset should be obvious, but just a note... that's also why I'm intending to give Suicune a try on my next attempt... When Tentacruel's all set up, it can't really rest stall things very well, because it keeps being at full health lol. With Suicune @ Lum, I don't get leftovers recovery, so Sub eventually breaks and I can sub rest again. Obviously Suicune is the better PP-staller with Pressure too. I'm talking about PP-stalling here just because mono-water means PP-stalling water immune pokemon is something that needs to be considered.

    battle 331 (open)

    Opponent Lead Kingdra
    Turn 1. Intimidate. White Herb. Thunderwave. Draco Meteor. -2SpA
    Turn 2. Snarl. Draco Meteor. -5SpA
    Turn 3-8. Sand-Attack + Draco Meteor/Surf miss/Blizzard Miss/Full Paralysis. -6SpA -6 Accuracy (one Draco Meteor hit and Stoutland in low red)

    ... I didn't feel like waiting for Kingdra to KO Stoutland since that might take a while, so I took my chance that Kingdra either won't Blizzard or Blizzard won't hit or at least Blizzard won't crit or freeze, so I switch in Dragonite.

    Turn 9. Dragonite in. Blizzard crit KO. :P (Obviously that's what happened since I already mentioned Dragonite fainted.)
    Turn 10-whatever. Tentacruel sets up fairly easily since Kingdra can't do anything. Here's just to hoping that there are no water immune pokemon, or else, it'll be an even longer battle.

    Tentacruel 5HKO's Kingdra I think (maybe 4, whatever, don't remember). Empoleon... 4HKOs Empoleon. Gastrodon - uhoh! I tried to Scald anyway and it hits. 2HKO. So that was that (I don't remember what move Gastrodon used).

    Even if Gastrodon had storm drain, tentacruel should still have been able to stall Empoleon out of ground move PPs (if it had any), switch to Stoutland, then rest stall Gastrodon out, but just a super long battle. Glad I didn't have to do that since I wouldn't have been at 343 yet if that happened.

    How I lost (open)

    EDIT2: Hah, I just lost with 349 streak. I decided to play a bit more. Totally bad misplays... Wow, I almost can't believe I did that, but o well. It went something like this (not going to go turn by turn since I don't remember exactly, but here's what happened):

    1. Vanilluxe Lead.
    2. Stoutland Twaves Vanilluxe and got Vanilluxe down to -6 Accuracy -5 SpA before fainting. Vanilluxe has taunt and ice beam.
    3. Tried to set up with Dragonite, but for whatever reason taunt always hit through the -6 Accuracy about 3 times (where Dragonite only got 1 DD... I wanted at least 3). I got fed up and decided to just let Tentacruel stay instead of switching around out of the taunt for Dragonite.
    4. Tentacruel somehow got 10 Acupressures (with sub up) before being taunted. If I remember correctly it was something like... +6 Attack +2 SpA +4Speed +2 Accuracy +2Def +4Sp Def ... main thing is, only +2 Def and no Evasion. For whatever reason I thought that was "safe enough" and just scalded Vanilluxe to death instead of switching out the taunt.
    5. Walrein in.
    6. Tentacruel Scalds (still taunted). Walrein curses. (uh oh)
    7. Let's just say I faced a horrible loss as Walrein's EQ eventually KO'd Tentacruel, and then Ice Ball KO'd Dragonite.

    So, yeah, totally could have prevented that loss. But o well, that's that. I might try this again with Suicune > Tentacruel (probably Lum/Chesto replacing Black Sludge then since Dragonite with Leftovers is awesome). I'll put a pic up sometime.

    EDIT3: Also, I realized I was being dumb when Tentacruel faced Walrein too... After taunt ended, I acupressured about 3 times (while walrein cursed) before walrein attack, hoping for an evasion boost (which I didn't get. I did get a +2 Defense boost, but that wasn't enough with Walrein's curses)... instead, I should have scalded hoping for a burn ... 65.7% chance of a burn with 3 scalds, or 76% chance with 4 scalds (if I scald even after the sub broke). With the burn and the scald damage, in the worst case, Dragonite should have been able to sub stall walrein to death from the burn, though the last pokemon probably would be an ice type that can beat a low health unboosted Dragonite.

    EDIT: O yeah, @Manveru123, I tried slightly similar Spiritombs before in Gen IV (I tried CM / HP Fighting / Sub / Shadow Ball, and CM / Dark Pulse / Sub / Rest, and CM / Dark Pulse / Sub / Pain Split)... The Rest version worked the best, but even then... it's not really good. Even if I fully set up (+6/+6 with a sub) after the opponent's lead is gone, it's still so easy to lose, because its defenses aren't that amazing (they're basically slightly above average). Calm Mind can cover the special side, but even with 252 HP 252 Def, it's no Suicune. It's too slow, so a crit after sub is broken from a physical attack means game over, and that can happen fairly often. On top of that, even at +6 SpA, there are a handful of things that it cannot OHKO. And... that was just Gen IV. With the Sturdy ability change in Gen V, that's even more.

    Dragonite's a good fighting resist. Gyarados is fine too with good synergy with Ferrothorn (well, most Dragon or water types do). If you want a special attacker, Latios (@Specs/LO) or Latias (with CM/Recover or Rest) are probably both fine. IF you are keeping Ferrothorn, your fighting resist really should resist fire too (hence Dragonite/Lati@s/Gyarados). I also think... something with recovery might be better, so then Ferrothorn can have Leftovers. Or... Ferrothorn can have leech seed replacing one of your moves.
  19. PeterT


    Feb 22, 2012
    I tried out Staraptor with Swampert and Magnezone as backups but it didn't workout. Swampert has a hard time setting up with Curse and Magnezone has a terrible movepool. I specs'ed Magnezone for maximum damage output but it is easily stopped by Fighting and Ground-types.

    I'm going to try Staraptor again (He's really good) but with Empoleon and Torterra/Golurk (I'm not sure yet) as backups.
  20. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    @ Manveru123: As someone who has used Cloyster and Ferrothorn on the same team, I just want to say that in hindsight it wasn't a good idea. It leaves you weak to fighting as NoCheese said. This is bad enough for most teams given that fighting is among the most powerful and common attacking types in the subway. But when you consider that large amount of Fighting types that carry Fake Out and Priority moves in general, it is particularly problematic for Cloyster (Fake Out removes Focus Sash and priority moves end Cloyster sweeps prematurely.

    The back-ups don't necessarily have to cover Cloyster's weaknesses perfectly (it would help though). From what I remember, Cloyster mainly has trouble with Steels (some of them can take a water attack and KO back), Waters (Rock Blast is usually strong enough for most of them but it will miss eventually), status and fake out/priority, so you want you're backups to be able to deal with those (I wonder if Peterko found the same thing?). This was why I picked Ferrothorn in the first place, since it shits all over Water types and most Steels can't do too much to it either. It's also so slow that all moves it has to take are priority moves anyway! However, the Fighting weakness is irritating. I'm sure you'll come up with something though.

    I'm a bit iffy on Spiritomb for the reasons Chinese Dood said. It's not that bulky or powerful, it's slow, crits wreak it and it has very few resistances (though no weaknesses obviously).
  21. ~Mercury~


    Nov 1, 2010
    I never used Cloyster, but (in addition to the tips from atsync and Chinese Dood) I would recommend something that can take Electric attacks and doesn't care about paralysis, because from my experience, even Gengar, who is not weak to Electric, doesn't like to stay in moves like Thunder oder Thunderbolt as the paralysis chance combined with damage will make it almost completely useless. And as Cloyster attracts Electric moves even more, such a pokemon would probably be quite helpful.

    As for myself, I played some more in Pt Factory, and though I didn't get the coloured print, I managed to get a record good enought to make it in the list:

    Pt Battle Factory Level 50 Singles
    Streak: 45 (28 trades)
    I don't remember much about the first 28 battles, but in battles 29-35 I had those pokemon (I never traded in this set of seven):
    621 | Garchomp | Modest | White Herb | Draco Meteor | Earth Power | Flamethrower | Surf | SpA/Spe
    756 | Metagross | Adamant | Occa Berry | Hammer Arm | ThunderPunch | Ice Punch | Aerial Ace | Atk/Def
    664 | Froslass | Modest | Expert Belt | Ice Beam | Thunderbolt | Signal Beam | Destiny Bond | SpA/Spe

    Most of the time, Garchomp and Metagross did the job, Froslass wasn't that good (not bad either, though), because it lacked the bulk the other two had, but it was the best backup I had.

    721 | Exeggutor | Brave | Focus Sash | Wood Hammer | Zen Headbutt | Trick Room | Explosion | HP/Atk (in battle 36 and 37, i had a Slowking, before I obtained this one via trade)
    707 | Machamp | Adamant | Quick Claw | DynamicPunch | Earthquake | Stone Edge | Ice Punch | HP/Atk (with No Guard of course)
    849 | Gliscor | Adamant | Expert Belt | Earthquake | Aerial Ace | X-Scissor | Stone Edge | Atk/Def

    TR Exeggutor and this Machamp set work together perfectly, most of the times Exeggutor sets up Trick Room, explodes and then Machamp kills the rest of the opposing team. All of the three have good bulk and massive attacking power. Gliscor was okay as a safety net, but in the five battles with Exeggutor it was just used once when I directly switched it into Lead Heracross.

    580 | Porygon2 | Quiet | Iron Ball | Tri Attack | Thunderbolt | Recover | Trick Room | HP/SpA
    805 | Slowbro | Quiet | Leftovers | Psychic | Surf | Ice Beam | Trick Room | HP/SpA
    846 | Honchkrow | Adamant | Scope Lens | Night Slash | Drill Peck | Sucker Punch | Steel Wing | HP/Atk

    Trick Room again, but it works great in the factory and what else should I choose with those three in the start choice?
    Porygon2 can bring the TR against almost everything because of its massive bulk, it even took one Choice Band Staraptor's Close Combat (after a traced Intimidate) and set up Trick Room to strike back with Thunderbolt.
    Slowbro also has much bulk (and Leftovers) and can effectively stop the Fighting types P2 has problems with. Also, Slowbro has a good offensive synergy with P2, because it can deal with Rock and Steel types very well due to its resistance against steel attacks and STAB Surf, and its Ice Beam combines well with P2's Thunderbolt, and of course there's Psychic, that makes beating fighting types much easier. Honchkrow rounds the team off, and is able to act effectively in as well as outside of TR due to STAB Sucker Punch.

    I lost in battle #46 to:
    767 | Swampert | Adamant | Rindo Berry | Earthquake | Aqua Tail | Avalanche | Mirror Coat | HP/Atk
    785 | Vespiquen | Adamant | Shell Bell | Attack Order | Defend Order | Heal Order | Confuse Ray | HP/Atk
    882 | Kingdra | Modest | Wide Lens | Hydro Pump | Draco Meteor | Blizzard | Signal Beam | HP/SpA

    Swampert is a difficult foe for Porygon2 and my whole team. I can't stall it out with Recover because Earthquake has good chances to 2HKO and it would be just a matter of time until a crit happened (okay, it has only 10 PP, but still, that would be a risky strategy).
    So I brought out TR first and he used Avalanche which didn't do really much. Then I used Tri Attack, hoping he wouldn't go for Mirror Coat. He didn't, but used EQ, which did roughly 50%. Then I used Tri Attack again, and he killed P2 with Avalanche.
    Slowbro comes in and KOes Swampert with Surf.
    The opponent sends in Vespiquen, I use the last turn of Trick Room to get an Ice Beam off, which did slightly over 50% damage, he uses Confuse Ray (Slowbro had Oblivious). I switch to Honchkrow, which takes around 50% from Attack Order. Then Drill Peck KOes him.
    The opponent sends in Kingdra, and as I'm not sure what attack he would use I stayed in (if I was sure that he'll use Blizzard, I would have switched to Slowbro and then back to Honchkrow to avoid that Slowbro has to take a full power Draco meteor; if I switch Slowbro into Draco Meteor, though, he can probably just 2HKO it and then Honchkrow must survive at least two hits (or get a crit), which it can't even against a -4 Kingdra, as long as it only has half of its health) and did as much damage as possible with Sucker Punch (~45%), before he killed Honchkrow with Blizzard.
    Than I send in Slowbro, Draco Meteor brings it down to ~28%, Slowbro brings TR, Leftovers heal it to ~34%. A -2 Draco Meteor does 31.7% - 37.6%, so I have a chance to survive, outspeed and 2HKO Kingdra. Psychic does 48,4% max with Psychic, so it will never OHKO without a crit, Ice Beam does 28,6% min, which is (if my guess of ~55% remaining HP was correct) enough for a 2HKO, but also brought a 8% chance of a freeze for at least one turn with it. So i went with Ice Beam, and it indeed froze him... but he immediately thawed out and killed Slowbro with a Draco Meteor crit.

    I forgot to save the video, so here's a picture proof:
  22. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    Updated the list.

    Congrats Chinese Dood and thanks for beating my record lol. For the sake of completion, please update that post #1446 with all the other stuff you previously posted along with the movesets...I´ve linked your record to that post.

    Anyone else, keep up the good work. As always, point out any mistakes in the record list and post them here in this topic.

    Oh OK Mercury, adding you as well.
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Thanks Peterko for the fast update! I updated my post with stuff.
  24. Manveru123


    Feb 27, 2012
    My Fero has Leech Seed already so that's covered. Thanks for input everyone, for now I'll swap Spiritomb for Dragonite and see what happens :)
  25. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Haha, sorry I'm not sure what I was thinking. I did see Leech Seed there and forgot about it or something. Hope Dragonite gets you somewhere far!

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