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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. M E E P

    M E E P

    Dec 24, 2011
    102 Streak.

    Team was -

    Garchomp @ Lum Berry
    Sand Veil
    Swords Dance
    Fire Fang

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Iron Barbs
    Leech Seed
    Power Whip
    Gyro Ball

    Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
    Flash Fire
    Shadow Ball
    Energy Ball

    Lost due to a silly mistake, didn't switch Chandelure out for Ferrothorn when I should have.

    Going to remake Ferrothorn and Chandelure with different EV spreads, then give it another try with the same team.

  2. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    Ehm, sorry my memory is bad, but when did you post such a streak again? Doesn´t matter though. The more important question is, why did you delete it? Was there a problem with the streak or its believability?

    It seems you know what you´re doing. Well, at least you make it sound like you do. I´m also the type of player that goes for experience through playing, because I feel that´s the most effective way (for me) to test and improve a team.

    Straight-forward or not, that is a very very long streak (by Subway standards) you´re claiming. Even though I´m managing the record listings, I always make sure my own records are believable, or at least give as much info as possible. I put much time into writing down battle logs, team statistics and even a guide so that noone has a reason to doubt my record.

    You could give us at least something. There have been countless attempts at (attacking) teams and most of them fall flat on their face long before 100 because of random stuff. Protect doesn´t save you from hax, it only makes hax skip a turn :p

    You said that but get to 500+ without Substitute :/

    Yeah, give me those statistics of yours. If you kept track of such things as the # of 3-0s against a particular trainer type, there has to be a lot of information you´re withholding. I know I´m asking more than "simple picture proof", but that streak makes second place on the list and it´s only understandable that I ask you to provide as much information as possible. Plus, it´s your first forum post. There has to be a level of caution. Don´t take it personally.

    Soo, how exactly did you survive CHs, status and OHKOs again? I don´t see Substitute anywhere. How do you handle Electrics?

    I hope you will update your post with some more information about how you use the team and how you handle particular threats etc. I will have to add your streak, because you posted a picture...

    Again, don´t take it personally. If your record is legit, I congratulate you, it´s an amazing achievment.


    Anyway, I´ll update the list tomorrow. I wanted to retire (lol not really) / take a longer break with a "bang" and continued my Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune version 2 streak yesterday and today (I sat at 217). The plan was 700 by the end of tomorrow, to make sure that I am in range of potential new record holders that beat me in the following weeks or months and in a 2-day range of 1000.

    You might thing this is rude or cocky, because there´s noone near 800 in Singles, not to mention 1000. But, this team works like a charm and is extremely fast (28 battles in 51-60 minutes, depending on the number of Suicune uses). Obviously, I lost earlier than that and didn´t beat 623, but still got a very high streak (5th highest overall if I account for the #579 from ntrsnc mtvtn). I´ll post about it tomorrow and update the list at the same time. That will be my last streak for quite a while, as I´ll be playing D3 from Tuesday onwards.

    Don´t worry, I won´t stop watching over this topic and update regulary. Actually, checking the latest posts here is always the first thing I do after starting up the PC each day :)

    Good luck everyone, hope to see more awesome streaks from you.
  3. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Dec 19, 2004
    i'd say "careful what you hope for" but if you're anything like me you will actually appreciate this post and wouldn't take it as a "dig" so i'll just post:


    blah blah "ive been busy" i just graduated yesterday and my gf is not 10 feet behind me pretending to be interesting in the pacers-heat game i'm going to get back to after i'm done with this post

    here are some videos:

    501: 15-28740-98233 (posterity, this battle isn't really interesting and i forgot to save 500)
    ~534: 36-19507-13632 (abomasnow is a dickhead)
    616: 90-96665-81666 (abomasnow is a dickhead that can be castrated)

    i'd like to post more but i can't now, gf leaves tomorrow etc
  4. Stay Gold

    Stay Gold

    Feb 26, 2012
    Congratz on the streak Jump, I was wondering what happened to you :P

    I don't want to seem like a jerk, but I have to admit I've been a bit skeptical about the streak posted at the top of this page for awhile, Peterko hit most of the reasons, and because I really can't see such a team getting so far. Another reason might be that the poster practically wrote a dissertation when his credibility was poked at, which included some of those weird statistics, specifically the one about wins vs certain trainers (which I don't think anyone keeps track of).

    Anyways, I've been trying to get my own name on the list, I've had a couple streaks reach the 70s, but I don't feel like they're worth posting. My most recent team consists of Life Orb Zoroark, the classic subway Suicune, and Choice Band Landorus. So far its performed quite well, Landorus functions similarly to the basic Choice Band/Scarf Garchomp, but it gives Zoroark a good Illusion in that it discourages Fighting and Bug attacks. I had a streak end somewhere in the 70's, but I know this team can get much farther, since it ended due to a combination of my own laziness (I didnt feel like looking up my opponent's moveset) and a Rock Slide miss. I'll be sure to post any good streak I get.
  5. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005


    go me! I mean lol

    ...damn I shouldn´t have misplayed at #462 fuuuuuuuu.... is that the Whimsicott Dragonite team or the Haxo one? Damn, that feeling of "have to be high enough to capture a potential #1 streak of Jumpan" that I got yesterday, was spot on, too late lol.

    I´ll still get you... in a few months, even if it costs my life, I swear!

    630 is 90 sets, roughly 22.5 hours with Cloyster. That´s a tough 4 days (my highest was 189 per day during 623), maybe even doable in 3 days with a high risk of going insane...I did 140 yesterday and only started at 2 PM. I was at already at 104 at 3PM today before losing the 105th one...

    Seems like I´ll do a 150+ on my last day, tomorrow, just because...shit I only have one more day, oh well, enjoy #1 for a while. Perfect timing!

    Oh, congrats (also graduation++)!

    I am not pissed, honestly laughing now LOOOOOL. Seems like I matured a bit.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I'm glad you're smart and use Life Orb on Zoroark (and not Focus Sash; Zoroark is awful with Focus Sash). I wish I had a Landorus to try on my Illusion team. The electric immunity is really useful (with Dragonite, electrics were nasty if you got unlucky). I guess I could use Gliscor...

    Anyway good luck to everyone, and congrats to everyone on their streaks.

    I tried a team of Latios/Heatran/Ninetales/Zapdos recently. It worked ok. Latios and Heatran are a great partnership, Ninetales can switch in for Drought support to prevent freezing and to power up Heatran (handy since it has Air Balloon), and Zapdos adds another Fighting resist. The main issue is that Latios and Heatran have lots of weaknesses collectively, and no matter how good you are at using Protect (all of my team has it) you will often end up in bad situations where you have to take a big hit to prevent the partner dying. Also, Aerodactyl and Archeops are nasty if they go on a Rock Slide flinch rampage. I ended up losing at around 50-something wins because I guessed wrong. I thought that Vaporeon would use a water atyack (Muddy Water?) on Heatran so I send in Zapdos, only to have it use Blizzard which missed Latios but froze Zapdos. It cost me the match because the team was water heavy. Shit happens I guess.

    So now I'm thinking of making a Tailwind team. I'll probably go with Tornadus, who has Prankster (and unlike the other Prankster + Tailwind users it has good attacking stats).
  7. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005

    Black Battle Subway Super Singles streak: 461
    Team: Cloyster, Garchomp, Suicune version 2 (version 1 = 623 streak)


    1. Cloyster (F) „SPIKA WAVE“
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Skill Link
    Nature: Naughty
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-6-0-252
    Lv.50: 125-161-200-106-58-122
    ~ Icicle Spear
    ~ Rock Blast
    ~ Shell Smash
    ~ Surf

    Rebred for Naughty Surf instead of Adamant Razor Shell. Surf is the way to go. That 5% means the world. Not really, but I don´t have that uneasy feeling when I use a water attack anymore. But there´s still Rock Blast, which I dislike when it „needs to“ hit those Regice etc.

    RAZOR SHELL (161 x 75) vs SURF (106 x 95) against 27 Pokémon that I mentioned using Razor Shell against in one way or another in my Cloyster guide. (open)

    Aggron 220-200-232-200 112-80-80-112 37%/38%/41%/47% 57%/81%/99%/70% Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor < Surf
    Arcanine 100-100-100-100 100-90-100-161 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO after CC Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf
    Bastiodon 188-242-188-188 173-158-209-158 146-174/167 134-158/167 Razor >/</</< Surf
    Bisharp 167-120-120-120 81-90-90-90 141-166/172, 127-150/172, 127-150/140, 127-150/172 Razor < Surf Surf 3HKOs
    Blaziken 111-90-90-90 81-90-90-90 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf
    Bronzong 172-136-136-136 157-136-136-136 Razor > Surf
    Chandelure 110-110-110-121 110-110-110-142 Razor OHKO +2 Surf 81,25% OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Blast/Surf Razor < Surf
    Cobalion 163-149-149-149 124-92-92-92 a.42-51 b.46-55 a.46-55 b.63-75 Surd-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor < Surf
    Darmanitan 67-75-75-117 75-67-75-107 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf
    Durant 132-180-132-132 61-68-68-68 +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf(sash) Razor < Surf Surf OHKOs after Smash (set 4 is Sashed)
    Emboar 85-106-106-85 128-106-106-85 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf Razor min 216/217 after Curse, Surf min 180/217 no danger
    Entei 94-138-105-105 95-116-95-95 set 2 = 200-236 set 2 = 198-234 Blast-Blast/Surf-Surf-Surf Razor > Surf CM set 2 takes less from Surf but Rock Blast OHKOs
    Escavalier 125-125-125-125 125-112-125-125 55-66/177 46-55/177 Razor >= Surf Blast does 65-80/177
    Flareon 80-123-80-80 117-130-130-162 Razor OHKO +2 Surf min. 174/172 HP Spear-Surf-Surf-Spear Razor = Surf
    Hariyama 101-112-112-112 101-123-80-123 Razor >/>/</> Surf
    Klinklang 148-121-135-135 105-105-105-105 33-39% 40-49% Razor </=/</< Surf Surf doesn´t 2HKO/OHKO at +2
    Lucario 90-90-90-90 90-90-90-90 Razor OHKO 127-150/145 (18,75% OHKO) Spear-Spear-Spear-Spear Razor > Surf Spear does 125-150
    Magnezone 135-135-167-167 99-110-110-110 29-34% 29-34% 33-39% / 29-36% / 36-43% / 36-43% Razor < Surf Surf 3HKOs
    Metagross 150-150-150-150 99-110-131-156 46-55 58-69/52-63/43-52/37-45 Razor </</>/> Surf Surf + Quake KOs
    Ninetales 95-95-95-95 120-120-152-120 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Blast Razor = Surf
    Probopass 165-216-197-165 222-170-170-202 61%/46%/62%/75% 37%/50%/62%/50% Razor >/</=/> Surf
    Rapidash 90-81-90-90 90-100-100-100 Razor OHKO +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf
    Regirock 220-220-220-220 167-120-120-120 126-150/187 a.138-164 b.188-224/187 HP Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor < Surf
    Scizor 152-120-120-120 100-90-100-100 58-69 58-69 / 177 Razor = Surf
    Snorlax 117-117-117-128 130-130-130-162 Spear/Blast Razor > Surf
    Steelix 242-242-220-277 117-85-117-85 +2 Surf OHKO Surf-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor < Surf
    Typhlosion 98-98-98-98 94-94-105-105 139-165/153 50% 121-144/153 Blast-Surf-Surf-Surf Razor = Surf

    Razor Shell < Surf (10/27): Surf is the better option against the following Pokémon: Aggron, Bastiodon, Bisharp, Chandelure, Cobalion, Durant, Klinklang, Magnezone, Regirock, Steelix
    - Surf 2HKOs Aggron, Razor doesn´t
    - Razor outdamages Surf against Bastio set 1 and has a shot at OHKOing which is nonsense due to Sturdy, all the other sets boost their defense so Surf outdamages Razor
    - Surf does a bit more dmg (3HKO) to Bisharp, but Sharp is not such a big threat
    - Chande 4 has a shot at living through +2 Surf (18,75%) but Surf always hits and there´s no Flame Body risk – I´ve been using Blast more often than Razor against Chande anyway, but Surf is still the more reliable against set 4 despite 100 acc. x 81,25% OHKO chance being lower than 90 acc. x 100% OHKO chance, because it will always damage and not do zero damage like a missing Blast would. So I´d say Razor < Blast < Surf.
    - Surf does more dmg to Coba, but it doesn´t 2HKO so it will continue getting on my nerves
    - really glad about pesky Durant, +2 Surf OHKOs
    - Surf outdamages Razor against all Klinklang sets except set 2 where it does slightly less, but Surf´s overall more reliable, although it does NOT 2HKO (OHKO at +2)
    - Zone gets 3HKOed by Surf, which outdamages Razor Shell against each Zone set – doesn´t miraculously solve my Zone problem though, would be nice if it 2HKOed
    - awesome OHKO on Regirock sets 234 at +2, set 1 would probably Curse turn 1 and give me a chance at beating it even if it Drain Punches for some reason turn 2
    - solid OHKO on Sturdy-less Steelix after a Smash, so I don´t have to Razor/Spear into Curses

    Razor Shell = Surf (9/27): The attacks are somewhat comparable in dealing with the following Pokémon: Arcanine, Blaziken, Darmanitan, Emboar, Flareon, Ninetales, Rapidash, Scizor, Typhlosion
    - those are pretty much all Fire types – you still need to use Rock Blast against some of those just like with Razor, but you don´t have to worry about the 5% miss anymore (which is huge when going for a long streak)
    - both attacks 3HKO Scizor unboosted but Razor lowers defense so that Quake KOs, so maybe Razor >= Surf against Scizor

    Mixed results (2/27): Each attack is (slightly) better against different sets of the same Pokémon: Metagross, Probopass
    - Surf outdamages Razor against Meta 12, while the latter outdamages the former against Meta 34, both are nowhere near 2HKOing Meta anytimes soon
    - Surf is better against Probo 14, Razor is better against set 2 and they´re equal against set 3 – Cloy generally isn´t suited for taking on Probo, that´s the job of Garchomp

    Razor Shell > Surf (7/27): Razor is the better option against the following Pokémon: Bronzong, Entei, Escavalier, Hariyama, Lucario, Snorlax
    - the notion of using Razor against Zong in the guide was an attempt to somehow deal with the GK set that is able to beat Suicune – both, actually all Cloyster´s attacks are jokes against Zong, Razor has at least the 50% chance to lower defense, after which Chomp 2HKOs with Outrage plus it outdamages Surf by 20%, that´s why it´s the better option here
    - Entei doesn´t matter much, because you have to Blast Sash set 1 anyway, set 2 has a shot at living through Razor as well (albeit lower chance to survive than against Surf), set 3 beats you (Scarf)/you switch turn 2, set 4 is KOed by both attacks
    - Escavalier was handled with a def drop followed by a Quake. Blast outdamages both Water attacks though. I think it was possible to KO with Razor+def drop+Blast, this one will be tougher with Surf, which does max 31%...on the other hand Cloy should get in 3 hits so Surf+Surf+Blast for the KO, unless it´s the QC variant. Positive aspect is Surf not activating Custap.
    - Lucario was the main (and probably only) reason I ran Razor over Surf – this was when in one of my earlier/test/learning runs I dmg calced this (Razor always OHKOs after a Smash). With Surf´s 18,75% OHKO chance, it´s probably better to go for Spear and its 27,58% CH chance plus the chance to roll high enough damage to KO without a CH.
    - I will have to watch out for Thick Fat Snorlax, Spear first and then Rock Blast/Spear depending on its ability. Rock Blast outdamages Spear/Razor, but I always prefer a hit for some damage rather than a miss for zero damage

    Oh yeah, Cloyster is super amazing, almost unbelievable. Those 3-0 sweeps never get boring :)

    2. Garchomp (M) „JET QUAKE“
    Item: Choice Scarf*
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31-31-31-09-31-31
    EV spread: 0-252-0-0-100-158
    Lv.50: 183-200-115-80-118-213*
    ~ Outrage
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Fire Fang
    ~ Aerial Ace

    After extensive usage I revised the spread and lowered Speed to boost Special Defense. Always survives two 200 spA Flash Cannons from Magnezone (or a CH). Also, now doesn´t give a Download boost to nasty Porygons.

    thoughts about boosting HP or sD (open)
    231 Garchomp 3 SCARF Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Fang, Crunch
    229 Landorus 2 SCARF Earthquake, Rock Slide, Outrage, Brick Break
    228 Staraptor 2 SCARF
    Typhlosion 3 SCARF
    225 Pinsir 4 SCARF
    216 Accelgor 1,3,4
    211 Charizard 3 SCARF
    Electrode 3,4
    Heatran 4 SCARF

    142 Scarf -> 213 speed

    25 stat points left

    Zone 200 spA Flash Cannon
    vs 106sD = 85-102 dmg
    vs 107sD = 67 100
    vs 108sD = 67 100
    vs 109sD = 66 99
    vs 110sD = 66 99
    vs 111sD = 65 97 194
    vs 112sD = 64 96 192
    vs 113sD = 64 96 192
    vs 114sD = 63 94 188
    vs 115sD = 63 94 188
    vs 116sD = 62 93 186/
    vs 117sD = 62 93 186/184
    vs 118sD = 61 91 182/183

    183-115-118-213 0-63-0-0-25-39

    3. Suicune „AURA“
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 31-7-31-30-31-31
    EV spread: 236-0-244-0-0-30
    Lv.50: 205-74-182-110-135-109
    ~ Scald
    ~ Rest
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Substitute

    As good as it gets.

    Team version 2 means Naughty Surf over Adamant Razor Shell on Cloyster and 118sD/213 Scarfed speed instead of 105sD/231 Scarfed speed on Garchomp. This team felt better/more solid than version 1, despite achieving a lower streak.

    How to use Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune (open)
    [size=-2]Abomasnow – Spear right away for a solid 125-150 dmg on sets 34. Blast only OHKOs those with max dmg. You don´t want to miss. You can´t Smash because Focus Blast+Ice Shard kills you. If it come out later in the match when you´re at 1 HP, switch to Cune to absorb the Shard, Sub once (to figure out the set) and then sacrifice Cloy to safely bring Garchomp (set 2 & 3) or stall with Cune (set 1 & 4). Overall, you really don´t want to face many of these during a streak.
    Absol – Smash if you feel like it, sets 1-3 are pretty much set up bait, set 4 can be annoying with Swagger/WoW but Suicune set sup on that pretty easily unless you get really unlucky
    Accelgor – Smash & sweep
    Aerodactyl – Smash while hoping it´s the CB set 4 that uses Stone Edge, not the ones using Rock Slide – if it flinches you, you still have a 100% OHKO with Outrage and Cune as back up if anything goes wrong.
    Aggron – Razor Shell from the get go to finish off with Quake or set up Cune. Smash is a bad idea because of Sturdy/Sash
    Alakazam – Spear right away if you don´t know the set or know that it´s set 4 (almost always). Why? Because it will TrickScarf.
    Altaria – Smash
    Ambipom – Smash after getting hit by FO+BB. You should be able to set up unless he CHs (set 3) as your amazing 200 defense allows you to survive those two hits even if Ambi holds a LO. Set 4 might Taunt you.
    Ampharos – switch to Chomp and KO with Quake
    Arcanine – depending on the set (most of the time you know it), well, not really...Smash + Razor Shell, even after CC you´ll be at like 50 HP and outside of ExtremeSpeed KO range. Set 3 is Overheats and is set up bait, but don´t forget that Intimidate lowers your damage output. For what it´s worth, Suicune should beat Arcanine almost every time, watch out for the 5 Sunny Beams.
    Archeops – same as Aero, Smash and hope it won´t flinch. Set 4 tends to Protect turn 1, which makes it one of the safest things to Smash against. You like the other 3 sets even more.
    Armaldo – Smash + Spear
    Articuno – Smash + Spear
    Bastiodon – Smash + Razor Shell or Razor Shell from the get go. Note that it can´t get through Suicune and Chomp has a 4x SE STAB Quake.
    Beartic – I dislike the cool bear, because it´s annoyingly bulky plus Lax Incense/Snow Cloak. One of the rare cases of when I go for Rock Blast after a Smash. Cune should be able to handle it though. Watch out for the boosting sets.
    Bisharp – Razor Shell or Smash + Shell, depending on how I feel, also switch to Chomp and Quake. Yes it´s got Taunt, but it´s slower than you and you don´t mind to be taunted after you Smash, right?
    Blastoise – switch to Cune and set up. If you feel ballsy, Smash+Rock Blast set 1, but sets 1-3 are really Cune set up bait, set 4 could potentially annoy with Focus Punch (46-55 dmg against your 51 HP Subs).
    Blaziken – Smash + Razor Shell
    Blissey – Smash + Spear. You still got Chomp and Cune in the back.
    Bouffalant – one of those nasty things that survive almost everything. Smash+Spear. Another Spear will have to follow unless you get some CHs.
    Braviary – Smash + Spear
    Breloom – DANGER! Sets 2 & 3 have a faster Spore than you are (134 speed), you´re better off piercing this on sight with your Spears. On the other hand, things generally like to tighten their focus in the Subway only to lose it 
    Bronzong – BOOO! Cost me my streak. Most of the time, you will face set 4 (Psychic, Battle Girl & Black Belt, Harlequin etc.) which is set up bait for Suicune. Set 3 is annoying as you never know when it´ll explode. Set 2 is the most dangerous of the bunch as it is able to beat Cune 1on1 (which happened in my case). It will almost always begin with Screen and Rain, so maybe I should change my approach and Smash turn 1 against Bronzong to see the set and act accordingly (Razor Shell set 2 and even set 3, set up Cune on the others)
    Carracosta – survives quite a lot actually, either attack it and finish off with Quake or set up Cune,
    Chandelure – Smash + Rock Blast, if you´re gutsy Razor Shell (5% more accuracy but risk Flame Body), which you are because you still have CM Cune in the back if Chande burns you or avoids your attack.
    Charizard – Smash + Spear. If the Scarf one burns you (it will Heat Wave), just set up Cune.
    Claydol – Spear or Smash + Spear
    Cobalion – oh man, one of the worst Pokémon to face with my team. It survives everything Cloy throws at it. I Razor Shell right away or Smash + Razor Shell. Chomp´s Quake is your safety belt. Cune can potentially set up as well. Beware of Psych Up Coba that isn´t leading, once I used Spear only to give him my boosts. Don´t panic, that one only has Iron Head to hurt Cune so it should finish Coba off with Scald.
    Cofagrigus – Smash + Spear if you don´t feel like stalling, otherwise use Cune. Set 2 could be dangerous with Nasty Plot and Energy Ball, haven´t faced that one, I think. Maybe I have and got rid of it with Cloy/Chomp.
    Conkeldurr – DANGER! Spear right away because Superpower + Mach Punch beats you. After the initial Superpower Atk drop, Suicune should be able to set up most of time, but it´s far from easy. Had 2 or 3 of the most difficult battles against Conkeldurr.
    Cradily – Smash + Spear. Despite Toxic+Protect+Protect, you should be able to sweep or at least beat 2 & ½ of the oponent´s team and finish off something with Chomp.
    Cresselia – switch to Cune and set up, no way to lose against this one leading.
    Crobat – Smash + Spear. Watch out for Hypnosis and Taunt, but Bat can´t hurt you much.
    Cryogonal – Smash + Spear. Yes Spear. It always KOs.
    Darmanitan – Smash + Razor Shell.
    Dewgong – Smash + Rock Blast.
    Donphan – Spear right away to KO the set 4 QC bastard. You´re better off at low health without a boost than sorry for losing to QC Fissures later. Smash on the other sets.
    Dragonite – Spear for the KO. Set 1 will Thunder Wave you, set 2 is faster and will Bolt (potential para), set 4 might QC hax but is Cune set up bait after the Superpower drop. Still, Spear is the safest option for a long streak.
    Drapion – Smash + Spear
    Drifblim – DANGER! It cost me one of my streaks and almost ended this 623 earlier. Fast paralyzing Thunderbolt opener threat. Just Spear it into oblivion. It´s danger comes from the fact that it threatens both Garchomp (Custap Destiny Bond) and Suicune (Bolt). Watch out for this Baloon.
    Druddigon – Smash + Spear
    Dugtrio – Smash + Spear
    Durant – annoying Bug/Steel is annoying. Razor Shell for the def drop and then depending on its set/what it does Smash/attack again. Garchomp can beat it reliably with Quake after a drop though.
    Dusknoir – Suicune
    Eelektross – Spear/Smash+Spear or depending on the set go to Chomp and Outrage. Have not faced many Eel leads, there´s a log of one case when it U-Turned into Lapras 3 on my first turn switch to Chomp and I had to improvise and almost lost.
    Electivire – Smash+Spear or Spear or switch to Chomp. Vire is one of the very few electrics that isn´t auto-win with Chomp. The Shuca set 4 tends to survive the Quake and OHKO back with Ice Punch which isn´t ideal if you face a Depot Agent - Chomp is able to get the rare clean sweeps against this one. Dmg calc says Chomp´s Quake has a 18,75% chance to OHKO set 4 through Shuca and can´t OHKO set 2, both have Ice Punch. Outrage OHKOs set 4 but has a 50/50 chance to OHKO set 2. Maybe that´s why I often risk the 10% para chance to Smash.
    Electrode – Garchomp
    Emboar – Smash + Razor Shell. Watch out for QC hax, but you have Cune and Chomp.
    Empoleon – auto switch to Cune. One of the most frequent leads because Cloy can´t do sh. against it. If you didn´t get it, set up Cune. Takes long, but you want to win, right?
    Entei – Smash + Razor Shell/Rock Blast depending on the set. If it´s the Eruption one, go to Cune and set up a few CMs and a Sub while it Struggles.
    Escavalier – Bug/Steels, hate to face them. Razor Shell, follow up with another Shell or Smash depending on what it does. Garchomp is awesome because it straight up 2HKOs all sets with Quake and doesn´t activate Swarm, Custap, Liechi and all that stuff. Note that Fire Fang is not a 100% OHKO, only a 31,25% one plus you don´t want to miss against this. If something goes wrong, Cune should be able to stall Megahorns and set up.
    Espeon – Smash + Spear. Frequent lead that you will learn to love.
    Excadrill – Smash + Spear.
    Exeggutor – Smash + Spear or Spear right away, depending on the set (hint: set 4 knows TR).
    Exploud – Smash + Spear
    Feraligatr – Smash + Spear/Rock Blast. You should be able to get off some attacks thanks to your defense. Don´t let it get too many DDs off.
    Ferrothorn – Smash + Spear. Note that Suicune beats Ferro as none have a Grass attack.
    Flareon – Smash + Razor Shell and Spear against the Sash set 1. You have Cune as back up, also Chomp.
    Floatzel – Smash + Spear. Can´t get through Cune, whatsoever.
    Flygon – Smash + Spear
    Forretress – Smash + attack. Set 3 is annoying as it can Explode whenever it feels like it. Almost cost me a game once.
    Froslass – Smash + Rock Blast/Spear. Spear KOs if you get a CH among the 5 hits (27,58%). The most frequent set 4 is Cune set up bait. If you´re scared of the set 1 Bolt one, use Spear and finish off with Chomp. You´ve got a Scarf and Aerial Ace, questions?
    Gallade – Smash + Spear
    Garchomp – Smash + Spear
    Gardevoir – DANGER! Strong special attacker with Thunderbolt. It leads with either Bolt or Psychic Gem Psychic. This means you can´t risk a switch to Chomp because you´ll lose it and that´s unforgivable. I use Icicle Spear, it does 135-165 dmg / 143 HP. The dmg calc isn´t as good as it seems. The Spears do 27-28-30-31-33. You need at least a couple of those 30 ones (10/16 chance for one) or a CH. I ´ve seen it faint but also survive.
    Gastrodon – Smash + Spear
    Gengar – DANGER! Strong special attacker with Sludge Bomb & Thunderbolt. I´d Icicle Spear this depending on the set. I admit I´ve often risked the 70% of not being poisoned and Smashed. Set 1 potentially HypnoEats your team apart because of Sash. Set 2 is Cune bait. Set 3 has Sash, Taunt, Counter and Focus Blast, all of it is bad. Set 4 Sludge Bombs. Maybe if you know the set, you should go to Chomp and Outrage this one. Fortunately, I have not faced many Gar.
    Gigalith – Smash + Spear. Watch out for Custap Explosion. Other than that, both Chomp and Cune can beat this.
    Glaceon – Smash + Blast, Suicune beats them all if anything goes wrong
    Gliscor – Smash + Spear
    Golem – Smash + Spear
    Golurk – Smash + Spear
    Gothitelle – Smash + Spear. Cune should handle set 4 easily if you manage to lose to Flatter confusion hax + Psychic. Note that after a few CMs, the oponent will only use Psych Up.
    Granbull – INTIMIDATE and relative bulk, this one´s relatively difficult to take down, as are some other normal types. I´d say Smash + Spear and see what happens. Prepare to use Chomp just in case, because Cune doesn´t like DE.
    Gyarados – Smash + Spear. Set 1 is annying, it leads with Twave and I always get fully para on the first turn I attack. Sets 2 and 3 fall to +2 Spear. Set 4 can take the Spear most of the time thanks to Intimidate and max HP, but it can´t do much in return. If you feel like it, use Rock Blast. But Gyarados is too dangerous to give him a shot.
    Hariyama – THICK FAT fighter with priority! You should definitely do some damage to it. Razor Shell or Spear right away, or go Smash + attack. If set 3 beats you, use Cune to have it CC for another 2 drops and Scald for the KO. Outrage does min 83% after the first CC def drop so that is another option. Set 1 can´t break Cune´s Sub with Vital Throw. Watch out for Custap Drum set 2. Set 4 IIRC Brick Breaks turn 1 most of the time, but it can also Belly Drum. You need to damage it. +2 Spear against Thick Fat does 105-120 dmg / 219 HP = 48-55%. BB 2HKOs you. I think it´s best to open with Spear to check for Thick Fat and then act accordingly. Statistically, 2x Spear should do more damage than +2 Spear because you have 10 hits instead of 5, so more chances for a CH. Just prepare yourself to lose Cloyster to this one.
    Haxorus – Smash + Spear
    Heatran – DANGER! I switch to Cune. Set 1 hits hard with Earth Power and always breaks your Sub with it. You need at least 1 CM, then PP stall Earth Power and Dark Pulse. Watch out for sD drops. Set 2 is much more manageable as it will try to WoW Cune most of the time and you´re behind a Sub. Set 3 SunnyBeam is even worse than set 1, also it survives a Quake 50% of the time. Tough one huh. You could Smash + Razor Shell, but set 4 opens with Magma Storm which means instaKO for Cloyster, that´s why I choose the switch to Cune. It still hits like a truck and once got 2 CHs out of the 3 hits with Storm against Cune. You don´t want to face many lead Heatran in your streak.
    Heracross – Smash + Spear
    Hippowdon – Smash + Spear but it´s possible to lose Cloyster against Hippo if set 1 CHs you with Quake. Watch out for Yawn.
    Honchkrow – Spear for the KO. You don´t want to risk it Snatching your boosts (set 3).
    Houndoom – Smash + Spear
    Hydreigon – Smash + Spear. Don´t be surprised if set 4 flinches you with Dragon Gem Dragon Rush – set up Cune if you lose Cloy or Outrage it.
    Infernape – Smash + Rock Blast but WATCH OUT! Annoying Fire type thanks to FO and Sash. You should be able to Smash against sets 1 and 2. Set 3 will beat you with FO+CC but maybe it will CC right away and give you a shot. Set 4 from my experience FO turn 1 and then Encores turn 2, giving you a chance to Smash and KO with Rock Blast through Sash. Don´t be surprised if it Flare Blitzes/CCs though.
    Jolteon – Garchomp. Outspeeds and OHKOs all sets.
    Jynx – Smash + Spear. They tend to go for the KO with Psychic.
    Kangaskhan – Smash + Spear. They will always FO turn 1 and then Sub or attack turn 2. One +2 Spear hit does min. 25,5% dmg so it should always KO even through the Sub. You should survive the 2 hits thanks to your defense.
    Kingdra – Smash + Spear. The Sitrus set 3 will sometimes survive, so don´t be surprised.
    Klinklang – TOUGH ONE! This sort of laughs at your Razor Shell and statuses you or Volt Switches or Gear Grinds and is faster. I like to go to Garchomp and KO with Quake. Yes maybe you´ll have to eat a Steel Gem Flash Cannon.
    Krookodile – Smash + Spear. Donn´t forget Intimidate.
    Landorus – Smash + Spear. You can outright KO it with Spear but it´s quite important to be at +2 against Legendary trainers. Rock Slide might flinch you.
    Lanturn – Chomp. You only have a 62,5% chance to OHKO set 4, but you should survive the Ice Beam. All other sets fall to Quake.
    Lapras – DANGER! Rock Blast right away or Smash + Rock Blast and pray it hits and that Thunder or Thunderbolt didn´t paralyze you. Lapras is one of those Pokémon that seriously counter your whole team thanks to BoltBeam and rather solid bulk. You really don´t want to face many of these. Brightpowder, BoltBeam and potential Water Absorb, a real nightmare.
    Latias – Spear! I´ve lost a streak because I tried to Smash. Set 3 will TrickScarf and then proceeed to beat you team.
    Latios – Smash + Spear. No TrickScarf set here, but Thunderbolt/Thunder mean para danger.
    Leafeon – DANGER! One of the worst Pokémon to face for this team. If you´re unlucky, this beats your whole team or leaves you holding by a thread. Set 4 holds a QC and has insane defense. Smashing here is suicidal and almost cost me a game once (hint: QC activated turn 2). Garchomp has to Outrage for the 2HKO but QC and Leaf Blade high CH ratio means that Chomp will be seriously dent or maybe KOed (it does 43-51% to Chomp). Cune gets 2HKOed and can´t OHKO even at +6. If you didn´t get it by now, Icicle Spear!
    Lickilicky – DANGER! Oh man, a normal type that survives a lot. Set 1 paralyzes you, sets 2 and 3 survive a couple of Spears and set 4 paralyzes you with Body Slam, avoids your attacks with Lax Incense and then Explodes. I open with a Spear so that I damage this as much as possible for Chomp to finish off if Cloy fails.
    Lilligant – Smash + Spear but this might annoy with Teeter Dance, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, Toxic etc.
    Lopunny – Smash + Spear. If you get a Flame Orb, set up Cune.
    Lucario – Smash + Razor Shell. The #1 reason for Razor Shell over Surf is Lucario, because RS always OHKOs at +2 (unless you miss). Fortunately, no Luca set has priority attacks. Set 3 holds a Sash hmm, but most of the time you´ll face set 4.
    Ludicolo – DANGER! Seriously, Icicle Spear this one. It likes to open with FO. Set 4 beats Suicune and speed ties with your Cloyster (FO+GK KOs you), but you have Outrage.
    Luxray – Garchomp. Watch out for the Baloon one, it survives an Outrage.
    Machamp – Smash + Spear if it´s not the Scarf set 3. You should Spear that one and hope for no confusion hax. It will only get at most 2 more DynamicPunches against Cune and Struggle afterwards, you should be able to handle it somehow. Outrage doesn´t OHKO.
    Magmortar – Smash + Rock Blast because of Flame Body. Cune should be able to handle it incase of emergency.
    Magnezone – WAAAAH GET AWAY FROM ME!!! The worst oponent for this team, period. Where should I start. Razor Shell is a joke against it. All sets have either max HP or max Defense, shhh. Then there´s everyone´s favourite Brightpowder. Flash Cannon has a good shot at 2HKOing Chomp (85-102 dmg / 183 HP = 46-56%), while Sturdy makes them always survive a Quake. Worst thing if they Magnet Rise, oh man. Sometimes, they do it on the switch which means you´ve got to improvise, hard. Yes they will Magnet Rise first even if they can outright KO your Suicune/Cloyster, which sucks. magnezone cost me the streak and almost ended it before that as well. Zone is the main reason I´m reconsidering my EV spread on Garchomp, although I love the speed. I will probably switch to 212 speed and 118 sD to ensure I survive two Flash Cannons everytime (save for CHs). Maybe I could open with a Razor Shell or Spear to break Sturdy, but if it Magnet Rises, Chomp can´t KO and max dmg Fire Fang doesn´t even deal 50%.
    Mamoswine – Smash + Spear. Don´t be surprised if it Hails and avoids all your hits.
    Mandibuzz – annoying piece of Pokémon that survives a lot of beating. Don´t break you DS if you lose Cloyster to this one. You should either Smash + Spear or Spear.
    Manectric – Chomp. This will often Overheat, but also TrickScarf. But your Chomp holds one as well, so you´re fine. You have to Outrage the Baloon set 3, beware of Static.
    Marowak – Smash + Spear
    Medicham – DANGER! Hits like two trucks, mainly the most frequent LO set 4. It´s better to face this as a lead and Smash + Spear, beacause it will HJK. Hmm now that I look at its movesets, set 1 has Feint and will beat Cloyster if you Smash, watch out for that one. You will see set 4 most of the time, though.
    Meganium – Smash + Spear. Set 4 will Seed you.
    Metagross – DANGER! Takes Razor Shells like a Champ, hits hard, TrickOrbs, Explodes and survives a Quake sometimes. I open with Razor Shell and finish off with Chomp. If you want to be smart and switch to Chomp to give it a Scarf, it can backfire if Meta decides to Protect next turn which results in a switch afterwards. The Scarf is generally very important on Chomp (that´s why you use it), but againt Psychic trainers, it saves your butt, period. Oh yeah, most of the time you lose Cloyster and finish off with Quake or set up Cune.
    Mienshao – DANGER! Fighting priority user. I attack with Spear because HJK + Feint KOs you. You can save Cloyster with a switch to Chomp on the supposed Feint, but don´t be surprised if you get hit by a HJK.
    Milotic – Suicune. Stallwar. Long set up.
    Miltank – THICK FAT! Don´t worry if you lose Cloy to Milky, Cune should be able to set up.
    Mismagius – DANGER! Set 3 knows Bolt, Icy Wind, Shadow Ball and Destiny Bond. You should Spear that one or risk the 10% para chance. Set 4 can be annoying, but it can´t touch you (unless you hurt yourself).
    Moltres – Smash + Spear. Burns happen, also CHs and flinches.
    Mr. Mime – Smash + Spear
    Muk – Garchomp. Don´t be surprised to get a QC Explosion to the face though.
    Musharna – DANGER! Spear this. If you get a CH/10, you will 2HKO this. Against set 4, it´s OK to Smash, but set 2 will beat you most of the time. TR+2 Attacks >= 2 Spears > Smash + 1 attack.
    Nidoking – I´m ballsy and say Smash + Spear, but you will get poisoned sooner or later. Quake OHKOs though.
    Nidoqueen – same as Nidoking, but set 2 may paralyze you.
    Ninetales – Smash + Rock Blast because set 4 survives your Razor Shell thanks to Passho. Quake if something goes wrong.
    Pinsir – Smash + Spear. You like the set 4 as lead, but not set 3. Lax Incense. Evil item. It´s possible to lose a couple of Pokémon against this one.
    Politoed – Smash + Rock Blast/Spear. Maybe you get lucky and it doesn´t hit with its 84% accurate Focus Blast, but Cune stalls this one badly. Set 3 is somewhat dangerous with the Belly Drum and Water Absorb, but Outrage KOs (min 87% dmg) after the Drum.
    Poliwrath – DANGER!!! Probably Top 5 or top 3 worst Pokémon to face for this team. Water Absorb Wrath beats Cune 1on1 with Focus Punch, no other Absorber/Storm Drainer does that (except for maybe Lapras 3), because Cune can PP stall Vaporeon and Gastrodon. Much more manageable as a lead, because it will often go for Focus Punch. My Cloy uses Icicle Spear to KO it in like 5 turns. Spear does min 50 damage, which means it always breaks the Sub. Set 2 knows Belly Drum, but you should damage it enough for an Outrage finisher. Even if you don´t, Outrage KOs set 2 after the Drum/Shell Bell recovery.
    Porygon-Z – DANGER! A hard hitting special attacker that can take an Outrage. Tri attack statuses, BoltBeam, etc. On top of that, all team members give it a spA Download boost (as if it needed that). Icicle Spear and then finish off with Garchomp.
    Porygon2 – DANGER! Lol if Z is dangerous, this one´s even worse. Much bulkier, but hits almost as hard. Unboosted Spear does 57% min damage against sets 134, but set 1 holds a Sitrus. Set 2 takes min 33% from a Spear. Not even Spear + Outrage is enough to KO this, most of the time. It´s probably wiser to PP stall this one.
    Probopass – DANGER! I switch to Chomp, but it doesn´t like STAB LO Flash Cannon. Sometimes I Razor Shell first to check the set, but 3 sets are able to paralyze you in one way or another.
    Quagsire – Smash + Spear
    Raichu – Chomp. Those two Focus Sash sets are annoying. Set 1 uses Thief as you break its Sash, stealing your Scarf. Set 3 uses Reversal, which does over half.
    Raikou – Chomp or Smash + Spear. Shuca and 2 Air Baloons and Magnet Rise means you will Outrage this most of the time. Can´t do much to Chomp other than Shadow Ball. Smashing is risky because of Volt Switch and Bolt/Thunder para chance.
    Rampardos – Smash + Spear.
    Rapidash – Smash + Razor Shell/Spear. Watch out for the annoying set 3 with Horn Drill, it´s Sashed. After Flare Blitz recoil, +2 Spear should KO.
    Regice – DANGER! The epitome of bulky BoltBeamer. Set 1 takes 61-72% from Outrage, so it can survive 2 hits (Sitrus), obviously OHKOing back with a Beam. You have to be gutsy and Smash + Rock Blast this or Rock Blast right away, hoping that it hits and you didn´t get paralyzed. Otherwise you´re in for a close battle, more like loss. You will face many legendary trainers (1/10), hope they don´t use Regice very often.
    Regigigas – DANGER! More like annoying piece of... It can´t get it going but takes hits like a champ, plus uses DT and parafusionflinch hax. Yes it is possible to lose to Regigigas. It will surely hurt. Smash + Spear and hope for the best.
    Regirock – DANGER! This one´s tougher to handle than it seems. Smash + Spear. Razor Shell is kind of risky plus it activates Custap Explosion, so you´ll lose 1,5 Pokémon. Finish off with Quake or Scald. Smash first because set 4 uses Rock Polish, which flinches with Slide and then Explodes.
    Registeel – Suicune. You should be able to stall/set up even if it´s the Rock Polish set 2 with ThunderPunch (max 50 dmg doesn´t break your 51 HP Sub).
    Reuniclus – DANGER! This is similar to Musharna. It´s very bulky and survives +2 Spear. You´re better off using Spear twice, hope for some CHs. Set 4 will TrickOrb so you only get 2 turns.
    Rhyperior – Smash + Spear. The super defense monster set 3 will survive a +2 STAB SE Spear with Solid Rock, not many other Pokémon can do that. On the other hand, Cloy doesn´t care about Payback.
    Roserade – Spear or Smash+Spear, why? Because Sludge Bomb poisons. Maybe set 3 will Leaf Storm instead, but who knows. The other sets are annoyers.
    Salamence – Smash + Spear. Set 1 has Scary Face, set 2 Slide flinch...but Sala is overall a good and safe Smash candidate. Don´t forget Intimidate.
    Samurott – Suicune. A bulky water = a job for Cune. Set 4 knows Grass Knot but you should have plenty of CMs under your belt by the time it starts using that. Noticed the AI doesn´t consider GK 100 base power against Cune and uses other attacks first.
    Sawk – Smash + Spear.
    Sceptile – Smash + Spear sets 2-4, Spear set 1 or if you don´t know the set. Set 1 has Leaf Storm + QA which beats Smash. Fast grass type with strong STAB attacks, the team doesn´t like that, get rid of this ASAP.
    Scizor – DANGER! Bug/Steel, Cloyster doesn´t like those. Razor Shell is a joke, but I use it. Go for the defense drop so that Garchomp has an easier time finishing this off. Also watch the dmg output to see if it´s Technician or Swarm. It´s possible to set up Cune on Swarm set 4. Set 3 knows SD, holds a LO and may U-Turn. Watch out for that. Scizor is one of those Pokémon that Cloyster can and will often lose to.
    Scrafty – DANGER! Bulky as hell plus STAB fighting attacks. Garchomp will have to finish it off, should Cloy fail. It happens.
    Seismitoad – Smash + Spear. Set 1 Sludge Wave poisons, but is set up bait for Cune.
    Serperior – DANGER! Similar to Sceptile, but worse because of Powder set 3. Serp can take a hit and Leaf Storm hurts. It´s probably best to Spear, because the odd Leaf Tornado lowers accuracy.
    Shiftry – Smash + Spear
    Shuckle – DANGER! More like annoying thing. Most of the time, you´ll live with a +2, but at low health maybe only able to KO one more Pokémon. Smash + attack. Set 4 stalls like crazy with Toxic+Protect, Set 3 knows DT but even Aerial Ace should be enough after the Power Trick. Hmm set 1 uses Gastro Acid and Power Split, but you´ll be able to get to +6, which should be enough for the rest of the battle. Watch out for Encore though.
    Skarmory – DANGER! +2 Spear is not a sure KO on the WW or Roar sets. You KO the Scarf set though.
    Skuntank – Smash + Spear. I remember a few instances where this annoyed me. Don´t underestimate LO Foul Play and Taunt.
    Slaking – Smash twice + Spear.
    Slowbro – Suicune. You should fully set up on each set.
    Slowking – Suicune. Set 3 Specs Psychic hurts like hell though. Not sure which attack it uses against Cloy. You have to stall with Cune and set up on Struggle (with Cloy).
    Snorlax – DANGER! Thick Fat, max defense on all sets. I use Razor Shell to get a def. drop. You should do enough damage for Chomp to finish off. Chomp´s Outrage does 117-138/235 = 49,8-58,7% against sets 123 and 106-126/235 = 45-53,6% against set 4.
    Spiritomb - Smash + Spear if you feel like it, otherwise set up Cune. Beware of set 2 Taunt.
    Staraptor – Smash + Spear
    Starmie – DANGER!!! If you misplay, you´ll lose easily. If it´s set 4 (Psychic), switch to Chomp-Bolt, switch to Cune-Beam, repeat until you PP waste Ice Beam and then Outrage relatively safely. Outrage does 129-153 dmg / 135 HP, so a 75% OHKO (12/16) and one of the main reasons Chomp is Scarfed. Otherwise, Starmie would own this team badly. Against the other sets, you can risk Smash + Rock Blast, which always KOs unless you miss. Also, Cune should be able to set up against those 3.
    Steelix – Smash + Spear/Razor Shell. Lix will take a few hits though. The QC Stone Edge set 3 one is able to beat Cloy and will Explode next turn.
    Suicune – Suicune. There´s no way that your Cune loses to the AI´s. If you PP waste the attacks, you can set up +6 Cloy. One of the very rare occasions.
    Swampert – Smash + Spear. It will probably survive the first.
    Tangrowth – DANGER! Physical defensive Grass type. Similar to Leafeon and as dangerous. Set 4 Lax Incense is really bad. Consider a turn 1 Icicle Spear.
    Tauros – Intimidate. Smash + Spear, but it´ll probably survive.
    Tentacruel – DANGER! I´m not sure though. Set 4 has max defense, so Rock Blast won´t do much. You should definitely do some damage, because set 3 is Sashed. Chomp is a good check with Quake.
    Terrakion – Smash + Spear. You outspeed the Scarf one (240) after the Smash (244), Spear always KOs even through Sitrus. Sacred Sword having a higher base power than Slide means Smashing is safe.
    Throh – Smash + Spear, lives though. Isn´t as dangerous as Hariyama or Conkeldurr, but don´t underestimate it.
    Thundurus – DANGER! Instead of Bolt/Discharge/Volt Switch, sets 2 and 4 can Focus Blast, which the incoming Chomp doesn´t like. Sets 234 have a 12,5% chance to survive an Outrage. Set 1 can only Toxic against Chomp. Sometimes I boldly Smash, sometimes I switch.
    Togekiss – DANGER! Sets 134 use Thunder Wave. Set 2 does surprisingly much damage with ExtremeSpeed if Hustle. I do switch to Chomp and Outrage 2HKOs..well it doesn´t. Set 4 is nasty thanks to Sitrus and survives a Spear as well. Its Air Slash does 36% max to Chomp. This is a tough one. Sacrifice Cloy and hit with Spear against set 4, otherwise use Chomp.
    Tornadus – Smash + Spear. Don´t be surprised if Hurricane confuses you. Most of the time, it Focus Blasts, I think.
    Torterra – Smash + Spear.
    Toxicroak – Smash + Spear. Sludge Bomb poisons and sets 1 & 4 know Taunt and Sucker Punch. You should be able to set up. If not, you have Chomp.
    Typhlosion – Smash + Razor Shell / Rock Blast. You´ll outspeed the Scarf Eruption set after a Smash. Set 1 holds Passho, so it can survive Razor Shell. You should know the set after you Smash. Set 1 uses Thrower, Set 2 Inferno (if it hits Cloy falls) or Focus Blast, set 3 uses Eruption and set 4 uses Power Herb SolarBeam. If Cloy fails, Cune sets up on 234 easily, SunnyBeam set 1 could be troublesome. Chomp´s Quake OHKOs though.
    Tyranitar – DANGER! I switch to Chomp. With Sand Veil, there´s a good chance it avoids the Rock attack. Set 1 Thunder Waves and then either Flings or Stealth Rocks as it survives your Quake. Set 2 knows Ice Beam, but it obviously won´t use it on the switch, plus it´s hasty with 0 HP / 0 def which means Quake always OHKOs. You should OHKO set 3 as well, unless you roll absolutely minimum damage. Set 4 likes Superpower but it´s Sashed. What I do against set 4 is set up Cune after the atk drop. After a few CMs it will try to Dragon Tail you out, which does laughable damage and you should be always behind a Sub.
    Umbreon – Smash + Spear. You will need a couple of Spears. If for some reason Cloyster falls (confusion hax, for example), set up Cune.
    Unfezant – Smash + Spear. Tailwind, Sky Attack, Sky Attack and Powder/Toxic/Detect/Fly. Don´t be surprised if you flinch or miss. 2x Smash against the Tailwinder.
    Ursaring – DANGER! Obligatory normal type that can take a hit an dishes out pain as well. Actually the only set to look out for is set 4 because of QC Cross Chop. Maybe Spear this one from the get go or lose Cloyster if QC activates turn 2.
    Vanilluxe – Smash + Rock Blast. If anything goes wrong, Cune sets up on each set. Watch out for set 3 Sheer Cold, always hide behind a Sub.
    Vaporeon – WORST STALLWAR OF ALL! Yeah, you will face Vaporeon way too many times. Don´t try to be the hero with Cloy and always go to Cune and PP stall. You will have to go all the way to Struggle KO with 4 attack set 4. If the other sets have no more direct damaging moves, you can set up +6 Cloy. Facing Vappy at every point in a battle prolongs it horribly. Patience is key.
    Venusaur – Smash + Spear. Not sure if set 4 starts with Sludge Bomb, more like Seed. You should be able to set up. Watch out for Overgrow, mostly set 3 (this can also Sludge Bomb). Use Aerial Ace instead of Quake or Outrage. It´s a safe 2HKO but doesn´t activate Overgrow.
    Vespiquen – Smash + Spear.
    Victreebel – DANGER! Maybe I should´ve wrote this for Venu as well. ¾ Vicy sets speed tie with Cloy. It´s better to Spear it, you don´t like Sludge Bombs flying around.
    Vileplume – Similar to Vicy, Stun Spore, Teeter Dance, DT, Sludge Bomb, a lot of annoying stuff.
    Virizion – Smash + Spear, this one has got no priority attacks.
    Volcarona – DANGER! It´s Volca, after all. It can burn you with a Fire move or confuse you with Hurricane. Rock Blast doesn´t always hit. Quake doesn´t always 2HKO sets 3 and 4 (46-54%) so watch out.
    Wailord – Smash and see what set it is. Yes it´s a Water type and Cune handles all sets (well, with difficulties if they get too many Curses), but there´s still the little risk of switching into a Fissure (set 4). This one used Hyper Beam most of the time though, so Smash twice and Rock Blast KOs.
    Walrein – Smash + Rock Blast. Cune stalls and beats all sets though. Try to burn the Ice Ball set 2, just in case.
    Weavile – Smash + Rock Blast/Spear. They will almost always Fake Out turn 1. Two sets are Sashed, Spear has a good chance to KO if you get average damage rolls or a CH. Watch out for Taunt.
    Weezing – DANGER! I don´t like set 3 which knows Thunder and Sludge Bomb, so if they hit and status, Cloy falls. I use Chomp against set 3. Set 1 knows Haze and will use it against your Cune. Cune should be able to handle set 2, set 3 is rather difficult due to Thunder, but set 4 is set up bait (if WoW misses even Cloy sets up).
    Whiscash – Smash + Spear. Muddy Water lowers accuracy sometimes, I´ve lost Cloy against set 4 once. Cune sets up, but stay behind a Sub, because it knows Fissure.
    Yanmega – Smash + Spear. You could lose badly if they used Detect turn 2 with Speed Boost, but they never did that against me. Fortunately they tend to go for Bug Buzz/Giga Drain and not Air Slash.
    Zapdos – DANGER! It´s Zapdos, after all. I either Smash + Spear or recently go to Chomp and Outrage. They can´t do much to Chomp, but set 1 once got a CH Air Cutter which wasn´t very cool. Never forget set 2 the streak killer Powder/DT. Cune should stall that despite Charge Beam (it´s only 10 PP, 5 against Cune).
    Zebstrika – Chomp. They can´t really touch you, but two hold a Sash and one a Baloon, so act accordingly.
    Zoroark – DANGER! This can mess you up depending what illusion it does, mostly if you switch. Chomp beats it 1on1.[/size]

    That guide is still applicable, obviously you change the approach against some foes because of the change to Surf on Cloyster and more sD/less speed on Garchomp.

    STREAK (info (open)

    Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
    #15-21 = 6-0-1-0 (1-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #22-28 = 5-2-0-0
    #29-35 = 6-1-0-0
    #36-42 = 4-3-0-0
    #43-49 = 3-4-0-0 (2-2-2-2-3-3-3)
    #50-56 = 3-4-0-0 (3-2-2-3-2-2-3)
    #57-63 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
    #64-70 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-3-3-3-2)
    #71-77 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-2-3-3-3)
    #78-84 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-2)
    #85-91 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-3-3)
    #92-98 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #99-105 = 4-3-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-2-2)
    #106-112 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-3-2-2-3-3)
    #113-119 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
    #120-126 = 4-2-1-0 (3-2-3-1-3-2-3) worst set so far, bad decisions and too many stallwars
    #127-133 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-2-2-1)
    #134-140 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-2-3-3-3)
    #141-147 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #148-154 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-1-2-2)
    #155-161 = 5-2-0-0 (3-3-2-2-3-3-3)
    #162-168 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-2-2-3-3-3) Ludicolo 3 is soo annoying
    154 battles: 108-42-4-0

    - #72 misplayed a burned Hariyama3 Thick Fat situation and almost lost to SunnyBeam Vicy3 which survived a Scald after Quake did >90%, but Scald burned and the burn KOed (Chomp was KOed by CC from Hariyama plus SolarBeam, Cloy was at 1HP when Hariyama came out)
    - #119 Tyranitar4 decided to dick around with some CHs and Dragon Tailing to reset the sleep counter on Cune (this is an awful mechanics) which couldn´t set up, only 1CM naked on Struggle, second Poké Jolt Quaked away, third Honch Speared
    - #121 set up only 3 CMs against Meta 4 (misplayed – didn´t PP waste MM only QUake) which beat Cloy before that and second Poké Cham4 survived the Scald after LO dmg and broke Sub – Cune was at 136 HP, dmg calc. said HJK = 129-153, but Cham used Detect -> lefties to 148, survived HJK and LO dmg KOed, last Poké Chande got Scalded
    - #123 Conk4 Superpower-Spear, switch to Chomp-Mach, finished off with Quake = mistake, should have set up Cune instead like I always do. Second Poké Leafeon QC CH Leaf Blade KO, Cloy Spear KOed Leafeon but last Poké was Gengar4 ... ... ...

    Gengar 4 Lum Berry 135 76 80 182 95 178 Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond

    Bolt vs +1 = 66-78

    Cune at 113 HP minus 66-78 + Lefties = 47-59 HP

    Bolt vs +2 = 50-60 dmg

    If Bolt does <76 dmg per hit, Cune can PP stall it

    Bolt 2, 39/205, Rest
    Bolt 3, 135/205, fast asleep, 147/205
    Bolt 4, 77/205, fast asleep, 89/205
    Bolt 5, 15/205, woke up, Rest
    Bolt 6, 139/205, fast asleep, 151/205
    Bolt 7, 83/205, fast asleep, 95/205

    Sludge Bomb does 46-55
    Shadow Ball does 42-49

    Destiny Bond, woke up, Rest
    Sludge Bomb, 153/205, fast asleep, 165/205
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Sludge Bomb, woke up, Scald
    Sludge Bomb, poisoned, Sub, 25/205
    Shadow Ball, Rest
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Sludge Bomb, Sub broke, CM
    Destiny Bond, Sub
    Sludge Bomb, Scald KO

    Yes I know that I win a 0-0 tie lol but I gave him a chance. I should have lost that one :/

    - #133 vs Scientist Charis – Magnezone, Vanilluxe, Tangrowth: Surf-Flash Cannon-Sash, Surf-Flash Cannon KO, Outrage KO, foe Vanilla, Outrage-Sitrus-Ice Beam, my Cune, Sub-Beam, CM-Taunt, Scald-Beam, Scald KO, foe Tang, Scald-Whip1-Sub broke-Taunt wore off, Sub-Whip2-Sub broke, Sub-Whip3-Sub broke, Sub-Whip4-Sub broke, Sub-Whip5-Sub broke, 49/205, Rest-Quake, asleep-AA, asleep-BB, woke up-Sub-BB, Scald-burn-Quake, Scald KO
    - #138 and #139 both lead with Tenta4

    I did 35 battles a few weeks later and 14 on Monday, May 7th.

    Decided to continue my streak and aim for 630 and hopefully 700.

    Saturday, May 12th, 2012: battles #218-357

    Tough battles against:
    - Psychic trainer´s TrickZam lead followed by Drifblim4 around #220 – had to stall Drifblim out of Shadow Ball mainly, switched back and forth Chomp-Cune, both were Hypnotised ...
    - Scientist – Cloyster fell first and I chose to finish off the lead with Outrage, second Poké Starmie4 survived the Outrage (25% chance) and KOed with Beam. I chose to set up Cune instead of finishing off with Scald because it was 1-2. Cune was lucky to PP waste Bolt without being haxed by King´s Rock/Para/CHs during the first few turns. Last Poké was Flareon.

    Sunday, May 13th, 2012: battles #358-462

    - battles with Chomp locked into Quake when Cham4 came in - double KO but last

    - #399 – Charge beam Blissey came in as last Poké when Chomp got confused from Outrage at the end of the last turn, did some dmg calcs and decided to CM twice (+1 Scald twice plus Outrage could have missed the KO by a few HPs) but got fully paralyzed from T-Wave, fortunately second Charge Beam missed and Scald Burned (didn´t need) so that Blis was in Outrage range. Oh yeah it was a Biker with second Poké Gyarados3, Chomp survived +1 Waterfall, I mean it didn´t flinch.
    - #404 – Artist with Porygon2 followed by Porgyon-Z when Chomp was locked into
    - #433 – Artist with Zong2 followed by Magnezone – the same combo that cost me the 623 streak, Cloy got in a Surf and Spear, Chomp finished off with Outrage, only to face Zone. Counted the Magnet Rise turns and brought back Chomp to finish off with Quake.

    Sorry, my memory is hazy, more like battle become a blur at the rate I was playing. There´s been a few others that were tougher than normal, but I don´t remember them anymore, for the sake of maximizing the win over time ratio. Over the course of the streak, had 3-4 battles saved that got erased by the next interesting one - uploaded none, also didn´t write down exact battle logs.

    How I lost battle #462 vs Scientist – Luxray (Air Baloon (open)

    Video no.: 76-46244-84209

    Turn 1: Switch to Chomp, Luxray used Thunder Wave, didn´t affect Chomp.
    Turn 2: Chomp used Outrage, Luxray red HP, Luxray Ice Fang.
    Turn 3: Chomp used Outrage, Luxray fainted.
    3-2, foe´s Braviary
    Turn 4: Chomp used Outrage, Braviary red HP, Braviary used Brave Bird, Chomp fainted, recoil, Braviary fainted.
    2-1, my Cloy, foe´s Porygon-Z (Adaptability)
    Turn 5: Porygon-Z used Thundebolt, CH, Focus Sash, Cloy paralyzed, Cloy used Shell Smash.
    Turn 6: Porygon-Z used Thunderbolt, CH, Cloy fainted.
    1-1, my Cune
    Turn 7: Thunderbolt max dmg (118), Cune CM, Lefties, 99 HP left.

    Dmg calc 187spA Bolt vs 202 sD = 68-70-72-74-76-78-80 dmg (probability 3/16 - 2/16 - 3/16 - 2/16 – 3/16 – 2/16 – 1/16. Cune lives through 3x76, so I would need dmg rolls lower than rand. 98-100.

    Turn 8: Thunderbolt, Cune Rest.
    Turn 9: Thunderbolt 78 dmg, Lefties, 139 HP.
    Turn 10: Thunderbolt 74 dmg, Lefties, 77 HP.
    Turn 11: Thunderbolt, Cune fainted.


    That was one pissed Porygon-Z. CH paralyzing Bolt followed by another CH, then max damage and other high damage rolls.

    Misplay turn 1 meant my doom. Last time I faced this lead I attacked straight away to break the Baloon. I know Outrage doesn´t OHKO and Ice Fang is always risky. Unfortunately got a 3 turn Outrage and Braviary recoil KOed itself. It was also risky to Smash against Porygon-Z, but I felt it was my only chance to win because it holds a Sitrus Berry. Spear does 125-155 dmg = 85-115/160 HP after Sitrus. I should have calced this and go for the Spear, because +1 Scald does 79-94 dmg. Min Spear + (+1)Scald = 85+79 = 164/160 HP = KO. Damn.

    I´ll change my Luxray approach to the likes of Starmie4. Switch back and forth to PP waste Ice Fang so that it can´t touch Chomp anymore.
  8. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    That idea is genius. No more Quick Claw Donphan, no more Brightpowder anything - as soon as you use Switcheroo, you should win the battle once Butterfree is fully set up.

    That's fucking brilliant, I want to take that idea and see how far it can go myself.

    Edit: Ahahahahahaha Butterfree is so BAD xD I'm currently testing it out with a random Switcheroo un-EV'd Cottonee lead with Full Incense and Modest Butterfree with max Hp/Speed, and even at +6 the damage output is downright awful. Basically any defensive Pokemon that resists Bug Buzz will take an absolute age to KO - I spent 20 turns just trying to KO an Emboar. Anything with a 4x resist to Bug will be an absolute bitch to kill.

    Mind you, 98% accurate Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance is probably one of the most reliable combinations you can come up with, that's definitely something I'm going to try more of later.

    Edit 2: Test came to an end thanks to Ice Shard Mamoswine, which was unfortunate since I was using my Adamant ScarfChomp as the third member - at least now I know that I need to deal with all forms of priority as well as Sticky Hold, Klutz and/or Insomnia.
  9. ANNHILATERfrank


    Dec 8, 2010
    Battle Subway Doubles Streak (113)



    So my year-long [don't play that frequently] streak of 113 just came to a screeching halt lol

    Here's the team:

    Tyranitar @ Airballoon
    Adamant, 252atk, 252spe, 4hp
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Crunch

    Latias @ Life Orb (yes, latias :D)
    Timid, 252spatk, 252spe, 4hp
    - Energy Ball
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Dragon Pulse

    Back Up
    Garchomp @ Brightpowder
    Jolly, 252atk, 252spe, 4def
    - Protect
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage

    Togekiss @ Sharp Beak
    Modest, 252spatk, 252spe, 4hp
    - Nasty plot
    - Flamethrower
    - Aura Sphere
    - Air Slash

    How I made the team:
    - Garchomp was my favorite pokemon way before I discovered EV-training and it became uber, so I always made every team around him.
    - The next pokemon I chose was Tyranitar, mostly to provide sandstorm for Garchomp, but also because Tyranitar is a total mofo boss.
    - These two didn't work "well" together at the front lines, so I decided to have Tyranitar lead and Garchomp in reserves
    - I tried series of pokemon in the other positions, and the first weakness I acknowledged was that to fighting (Tyranitar was a punching bag). Because of earthquake, I wanted one that was flying/levitate and could take out fighting pokemon with a psychic/flying attack (preferably stab). Latias emerged victorious through the trials [didn't have SoulSilver so I couldn't RNG a Latios]
    - the next weakness I discovered was that to water/ground pokemon. I added energyball to latias (which was super helpful). Those pokemon were no longer threats
    - Still on the search for a 4th member, I noticed that my team was weak to bug/steel [or, they were annoying to take out]. I knew I needed a special- fire-type using pokemon, preferably that was flying/levitate. After some more trials, I noticed that Togekiss and its bulk were incredibly helpful.
    - After I assembled the team, there were only a few tweaks (adding protects, changing stone edge to rockslide ...) and it was ready for war :D

    How the team works: The team is pretty easy to use. I basically just try to do as much damage as possible. There is some clever playing with the protects, but that's about it.
    For example, if I go up against a fighting guy that sends out two pokemon that have a fighting attack, protect with tyranitar [they will both target him], and latias can take one out on turn one, and another on the beginning of next turn.
    I only switch when absolutely necessary. Not much more than that lol.

    Problem/Annoying Pokemon:
    - besides bad luck from missing with rockslide(90% accuracy) and air slash (95% accuracy), I didn't really have actual trouble with most teams. But I'll list teams that were more bothersome
    --> hail teams. 3/4 of my pokemon are weak to it and the other one doesn't resist. This isn't a problem, since (outside of froslass / weavile), my team is quick and can eliminate threats reasonably. The major problem against hail teams is the snow-cloak hax (see How I lost below), which allow the enemy to attack me
    --> legendary teams. These are threatening mostly because the opponents will have a much greater bulk; I remember one battle where the enemy Regigigas took like 6 hits before it fainted.
    --> fighting pokemon (for tyranitar) pretty easy to get around this with latias and togekiss as a back up and tyranitar using protect.
    --> Troll-Gay-nium [meganium] Who came up with this guy? Think he has sing, rest, substitute, double team. Not threatening, but I thought it deserved a mentioning under the annoying pokemon section
    *I should note that focus sash & non-rock/steel/ground study pokemon get hit by sandstorm and die which is really helpful.

    Potential Changes: This was a very rough team I put together about a year ago that amazed me by getting so far. After I beat the subway boss, I respected "the team" so didn't make any changes afterwards, I have a few opinions of possible changes when I try this team again:
    - May try a different EV spread (take out speed EVs and put them in hp/def/spdef) The moves are solid, I won't change them.
    - I've tried Focus sash, but I think air balloon is superior for his bulk.
    - May use latios instead
    - Energyball is a must in my opinion. But I may try swapping psychic/psyshock or dragonpulse/dracometeor or icebeam/thunderbolt
    - May use Choice Specs instead of Life Orb
    [I should note that there were SEVERAL instances where latias's higher defenses let it survive in the red and allow me to win matches; hence I was hesitant to substitute latios for it]
    - I think tyranitar & garchomp both having earthquake, rockslide, and protect may be redundant. But I actually haven't faced any problems with this.
    - I'm also not sure what item I should use on him. Brightpowder was just an "idk what to do, so I'll slap this on" item.
    - I've never used the move nasty plot, but I don't know what I should replace
    - I was considering using heatwave over flamethrower for doubles.
    - I'm also not sure what item to try out on him.

    How I lost: Went against a hail team
    0) Frank sent out Tyranitar & Latias.
    0) Worker sent out Abomasnow & Beartic.
    0) Tyranitar is floating on an Air balloon. Sandstorm started. Hail took over
    Turn 1:
    - Latias targets Beartic w/ dragon pulse. Beartic evades
    - Tyranitar uses Rock slide. does ~70% to both
    - Abomasnow flinches
    - Beartic uses shadow claw, KOs Latias
    [Latias =0%, Tyranitar = 93%, Abomasnow = ~30%, Beartic = ~30%]
    Score is 3 to 4
    Turn 2: Frank sends out Togekiss
    - Togekiss targets Beartic w/ Aura Sphere. Beartic faints
    - Tyranitar targets Abomasnow w/ Crunch. Abomasnow faints
    [Togekiss = 93%, Tyranitar = 87%, Abomasnow =0%, Beartic=0%]
    Scores is 3 to 2
    Turn 3: Worker sends out Dewgong & Glaceon
    - Togekiss targets Glaceon w/ Aurasphere. Glaceon survives in redHP
    - Tyranitar uses Rockslide. Glaceon evades, Dewgong is down to red
    - Dewgong uses Icy Wind on both my pokes
    - Glaceon uses Blizzard. Togekiss faints, Tyranitar is down to red
    [Togekiss =0%, Tyranitar = ~15%, Dewgong = ~20%, Glaceon = ~10%]
    Turn 4: Frank sends out Garchomp
    - Tyranitar uses protect
    - Garchomp uses Earthquake. Glaceon evades. Dewgong faints.
    - Glaceon uses Blizzard. Garchomp faints. Tyranitar protected itself
    [Tyranitar = ~9%, Glaceon = ~10%]
    Turn 5:
    - Glaceon uses ice shard
    Frank is defeated @ streak 113.

    --> Was a shame that Beartic evaded the first hit and Glaceon evaded another two hits. Despite 3/4 of my pokemon being weak to Ice - I actually have never had problems with Ice teams. I've encountered hail teams before and won very comfortably, but 3 snow-cloak hax was too much I guess.

    Anyways, it was a really fun streak. There were some close & frustrating battles (in one, Tyranitar flinched 6 times in a row >_>), but that's the joy of pokemon, isn't it?

    I'm open to any suggestions regarding different moves, EV-spreads, et cetera. Thank you for taking your time to read this and I'd appreciate any help or suggestions!
    Smuckem likes this.
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    I'm going to get back to Subway soon. I was more or less preoccupied with prepping and testing out VGC things lately, and then there was that Spring Friendly VGC tournament where I was trying out a few pokemon (Empoleon and Cradily in particular). It was fun, but man, it really shows the ugly side of people, lol. I don't mind people disconnecting at all, since it's just a game, and I was just testing out the team in the tournament and not expecting to do very well or anything anyway, but it sort of makes me sad that I faced 3 smogoners (almost in a row) who DC'd on me after I was about to win. Ironically, all 3 previously posted about complaining about people DCing just to preserve their rating. Hah. Anyway, sorry for being off tracked. I'm done with that tournament.

    So I was going to see if I can up my streak with Stoutland-Dragonite-Suicune a while back (a long while back now I guess). I think atsync was using a Dragonite-Suicune combo also (with Zoroark)? How's that going for you (or sorry if that was actually a while ago)? I still like the chubby puppy more :D
  11. sasuke-kun19


    Aug 3, 2009
    hi guys! i wanted to ask if anyone has saved the useful table where there was an accurate analyse of defence and sp. def. of the subway pokes. the link has been removed from the first page and the site where it was posted no longer works.
  12. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Dec 19, 2004
    haha i'd do/feel the same way you do if i were you, i'm not exactly putting my ds down for "good" and i still feel awful that i misplayed at 378 or whatever on december 31 because that was such an avoidable loss. i "cost myself" four months of my life from then to now playing and building new teams and stuff when it would only have taken 2-3 weeks of the careful playing that got me from 71-371 to keep my streak past 400, 500 and 600 for "protection".

    i lost at like 396 in february or something in the same streak where you saw my #324 battle video uploaded, and i cant remember the details but i do remember losing a streak at 245 in march because my game like froze or whatever? i really dont like the 3DS for BW compared to the DS Lite, my game ejected at 70 around feb 20 which is whatever but the freeze was because i maybe put my game down too hard in a flimsy bag because it was certainly not ejected, i was really fucking annoyed as you can imagine. if i were programming the games i would make it so that in between battles it "saved" so that if your game ejected and you werent in the middle of a battle that could presumably have lost it wouldn't erase your progress because you would not have been trying to exploit the system or anything but whatever

    the only saving grace of the 245 eject was that it gave me a chance to test my own "bullet train" team (name coined by Carl) and since i'm still a worthless pokemon addict i could at least find fun in trying to build a new speed team. it essentially held up, i am not sure it's as reliable as your speed team (which is your real team too so kudos on that) for a few reasons i'll get into but i haven't tried yours so yeah. i basically switched over to whimsy team at around 380, about the place where i lost december 31, and did not look back no matter how excruciatingly slow i felt it was. i had a few issues with lead walrein3 (surf/blizz/signal) since starmie can't ohko with TB obviously and loses to blizz+signal and scizor takes like 51-60 from surf so can't safely sd/roost/bug bite. also lead hippowdon4 likes to be a little bitch and not be 2hkoed by outrage (i dd it curses i outrage it curses again outrage hits again and hippo doesnt always die and uses chesto rest and basically scizor has to set up, which it can because hippo is easy to lock into rest loop but yeah.

    with bullet train team i only saw lead walrein3 as a lead once but it wasn't fun, i did see lead suicune a few times and that's the same issue basically. with those and hippo4 the most annoying thing is how my beloved starmie, which has gotten me through countless ingame jams and challenges i've had, really couldn't deal with them because it couldn't ohko and would basically be killed (+1 crunch kills from HP/SpD hippo especially after two rounds of sand) even though starmie's supposed to own pokemon like that. haxorus+scizor mainly need a water type to take ice attacks from water pokemon, ones hax has to switch from and that hit scizor for decent damage with surf/pump, and basically be able to take care of them without dying.

    the obvious other pokemon that can do this is suicune, who shits all over walrein and hippo with or without sub (i know hax can eq hippo turn 1 and then switch to starmie turn 2 for the surf ohko but still), but as if i didn't know why i couldn't just scrap starmie, garchomp4 "reminded" me again with its sd/sash threat. i know that poke as a lead is an absolute wet dream for you peterko, it alone would be reason enough for me to want to test your team because it guarantees cloyster +2 and 100% HP cause it will SD whereas with lead haxorus garchomp will sometimes DC and sometimes SD, which makes things tough for a scizor that has to break its sash (with the weaker BP). one battle i should have lost at like 290-something had chomp sd on the switch to scald/sub/cm/rest cune and then take like 52% from +2 EQ while doing a pitiful like 30% with scald (and obviously not burning), i only won because chomp SDed again on scizor after cune died while i used bug bite (which i had to cause two BPs wouldn't have killed)...i'm belaboring all this and not even talking about my whimsy team because i took vids of all the interesting battles (two really, both aboma leads, not a surprise) because lol the issue to me is still time right? like peterko i doubt you would be as gung ho to go record chasing if your team werent so fast, as ive said a few places in this thread it's literally a matter of time in the end and it makes a big difference etc. thanks for the congrats it was fun to get there finally with my ol' reliable team, and hey at least i have more reason to not lose all motivation to play at #1 now!
  13. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Yeah I haven't used that team much since my best streak with it, though I'm sure I'll try again. It is one of my favourite teams and getting Zoroark to work well was awesome. I'm just really unmotivated to try it right now. It was very fustrating to get a good streak going and then fall a few battles back of my best (to something that I probably couldn't have avoided unless I knew the actual sets I was facing). I did try 252att/252speed on Dragonite which makes some things easier to deal with (I'm faster than more things with 1 DD), but then I was even weaker to Jolteon. I tried giving Zoroark Focus Sash to help with that a bit (to help guarantee Memento which is impossible with Life Orb), but I could still get paralysis and it made me worse off against practically everything else because I couldn't kill anything lol. I guess Life Orb and a bulkier Dragonite spread is better. Maybe I should try a Choice Band Dragonite with Extremespeed or something (so far all of my Dragonites have been Dragon Dancers).

    I haven't tried Stoutland (I don't have a Snarl Zoroark) so I can't say which is better at supporting Suicune/Dragonite. Honestly Zoroark can't really be compared to Stoutland since they work differently. Zoroark is not a true crippler. It has the movepool to try but its awful defences make it not worth it (I actually tried and I was just thinking the whole time "why aren't I using Whimsicott?"). Zoroark is an offensive pokemon that can use Memento when it knows it can't win (this works most of the time but falls flat against things that can outpseed and OHKO, like Jolteon). It has more in common with Destiny Bond Gengar. Gengar is more effective at killing things but Zoroark's ability to get away with Life Orb more easily (thanks to Illusion) gives him an advantage and Memento makes it more of a team player (I would probably use Destiny Bond if Zoroark got it though).

    Stoutland probably IS better a better supporter for Suicune and Dragonite and I guess based on streak length Stoutland/(bulky water type)/Dragonite is a more effective team than Zoroark/(bulky water type)/Dragonite, but until you use Zoroark you'll never know the awesomeness that is sweeping through Psychic teams as they try to repeatedly Psychic "Dragonite" :)

    Anyway good luck to you should you try Stoutland again. I currently don't have the patience to try crippling teams even if they are more effective. I guess using things like Choice Scarf Sawk does that to you...
  14. Stay Gold

    Stay Gold

    Feb 26, 2012
    I gotta say, I've tried the crippling Soutland lead, and it's amazingly efficient. However, I havent went for a big streak with it just because it takes sooooo long. I like the recent trend of everyone moving towards quick and effective teams, they're definitely a lot more fun to use, and if a streak ends early due to carelessness and/or hax, you can just dust yourself off and try again. I havent had much time to get my own streaks, but I'll work on my own quick-streak team out in the coming weeks.
  15. ANNHILATERfrank


    Dec 8, 2010
    I had a double battles streak of 113, how does this get uploaded on the first page? Does Peterko manually edit it?
  16. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Oh, haha, sorry, atsync, I wasn't really trying to compare Stoutland with Zoroark in a battle sort of sense. I was just saying I like Stoutland more as a pokemon. I guess it did come off otherwise though. I dunno. In the beginning, I didn't like Stoutland that much cuz I thought its beard hair thing was too long, but then after a while I thought it looked pretty cool. I agree, they can't really be compared when battling.

    Oh, I don't really get Life Orb Dragonite though. I think if you're going to Life Orb Dragonite, you probably might as well Life Orb Salamence, because Intimidate does stuff, while Life Orb just goes against Multiscale (for Doubles vs humans, it's a bit different because Inner Focus actually has a good use). Choice Band definitely seems viable (I think other people used it before too).

    Actually, yah, I'm not sure how much Stoutland-Suicune-Dragonite-ing I'm going to do. I've been playing mostly double so far, and those are fast battles too. Not sure if I'll get used to the slow crippling again haha.
  17. Pikiwyn


    Aug 22, 2010
    Butterfree's type coverage sucks so i think investment in SpA helps more than Speed investment, a difference of 30 more SpA becomes 120 more after setting up which helps quite a lot.
    The third member needs to be able to handle a lot of different situations so it's hard to find a reliable Pokemon. Since you brought it up I also feel like trying it again, probably next month. I'll try Suicune and Dragonite, I know I said in my post that Suicune didn't do well, but it had below average IVs and a -Def +SpD nature (I got it from the GTS)
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    @ CD: Oh, well now I feel dumb because I wrote a semi-long post about comparing them. I feel even dumber because I forgot to put the word "Zoroark" behind "Life Orb" which I assume is why you thought I meant Life Orb Dragonite. Basically I meant that I tried Sash Zoroark + 252att/252speed Dragonite but Life Orb Zoroark + bulky Dragonite was probably better.

    Life Orb + Multiscale = no thanks!

    I guess I probably will try Choice Band in the future, though obviously I'm afraid that being locked into a bad move could cost me a streak (imagine being locked into Extremespeed and Magnezone comes out; I'd have to make a sacrifice which sucks and if Zoroark and Suicune are dead then I'm screwed). Choice Band Extremespeed would help against other things though, like fast electrics.

    Another option would be to run Jolly Dragon Dance. 76hp/252att/4def/4spdef/172speed lets be outspeed the 200 speed pokemon after 1 DD while also adding a bit bulk of bulk (I should probably use 180 speed to outspeed Scarf Skarmory but offensive DD Dragonite can't really beat that without Fire Punch and it isn't that common anyway). There is obviously a drop in power though. I wonder how much it would matter (Outrage is still powerful). I'm more inclined to try that over Choice Band though, if only because I don't have an Extremespeed Dratini on me right now (obviously I could easily get one).

    P.S. For Stoutland vs. Zoroark, Zoroark wins. Zoroark is cooler because of Illusion alone and unlike Stoutland it isn't torture to look at. Not that coolness has any impact on streaks; if it did I would have a 2000 win streak with Emolga by now!
  19. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    True, that probably works better - I don't decide on specific EVs to give on any of my teams, and I'm set on doing the excruciatingly slow full set up to +6/+6/+6 and using Sleep Powder on every Pokemon that comes out, which probably isn't necessary in most cases, but the issue is the reliability really, and it is just so much better than anything else that I can think of at least.

    MultiNite would be the ideal choice, given that Suicune is susceptible to Taunt, but I'm testing out a few different members at the moment. ScarfChomp lost to Ice Shard Mamoswine, I tried BandScizor and got murdered on the very first battle by Sub Charizard and SPIT Starmie lost to Sucker Punch Houndoom - currently testing a Jellicent with Hex/Scald/Recover/Taunt to solve the priority attack issue. I'm thinking of something like Sash Lucario with Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse/filler/filler, or even Hitmontop with it's priority abuse would work.

    Just out of curiosity, what moves does your Whimsicott have and what merit do they have over any other moves it can learn?
  20. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    @atsync: Hehe, I dunno, man. At first I thought Stoutland looks pretty weird, but I've grown to like how it looks after a while. On that note, Emolga is amazing.

    Just at 98 streak now with Stoutland-Suicune-Dragonite. Will get up there slowly hopefully.
  21. Pikiwyn


    Aug 22, 2010

    ~Leech Seed

    Switcheroo could be replaced by Cotton Spore, they've each got their advantages, like with Lax Incense I don't need to worry about the opponent raising their speed or setting up Trick Room, while Cotton Spore lets me have Focus Sash but Dragon dance for example would make it so Butterfree can't set up. Without Switcheroo Whimsicott could have Memento, but I didn't really find a lot of situations where I wished I could use Memento.
    EDIT: I somehow forgot about Switcheroo stealing the opponents Lum/Chesto berries and other items. Which makes it way better than Cotton Guard.
    Charm works great with QuiverDance letting Butterfree easily set up on physical and Special attackers, I think Charm is the most important move after Switcheroo.
    Flash is the only thing I can do to special attackers, except for maybe Light Screen, Flash helps against physical attackers too especially Rock types.
    Leech Seed I used for things that could use Substitute and on some weather inducers so that Butterfree could still set up on them. If I had to replace a move it would be Leech Seed, but I can't find a move that would do better except maybe Toxic, if I try Dragonite on the team i would probably replace Leech Seed with Sunny Day so that Abomasnow doesn't destroy me.

    Is that the moveset that you've been using?
  22. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Heh, I lost at 143 with Stoutland-Suicune-Dragonite.

    Opponent pokemon in this order were:
    759 | Skarmory | Careful | Lum Berry | Spikes | Stealth Rock | Whirlwind | Toxic | HP/SpD
    805 | Bisharp | Adamant | Focus Sash | Taunt | Sucker Punch | Rock Smash | Iron Head | HP/Atk
    816 | Escavalier | Adamant | Custap Berry | Megahorn | Iron Head | Swagger | Reversal | HP/Atk

    I don't have taunt, so I decided to let Stoutland and Suicune die to toxic / spikes / stealth rock and have Dragonite set up after Stoutland Twave Skarmory first turn. Skarmory faints and Dragonite is at 100% with sub up. Bisharp hurts but does not break Dragonite's sub and faints. Dragon Claw doesn't OHKO Escavalier. Escavalier breaks sub with Iron Head. Then Custap activates and Escavalier used Swagger. Dragonite hits self (>50% damage). Next turn, Dragonite hits self KO.

    Heh, not how I thought my streak would end, but of course things like these happen, and there's not much to do but to smile and start another streak. :D I might try something else for a while.
  23. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    Switcheroo stealing Quick Claw was the main draw for me :D

    The set I was thinking of using was Switcheroo/Taunt/Charm/Sunny Day - since you can't use Memento to get Butterfree in safely, you need to be attacked, so Taunt's a necessity. It stops Substitute so they can't avoid Sleep Powder, stops Roar/Whirlwind so you don't immediately lose everything you've set up and stops Calm Mind/Cosmic Power/Amnesia boosts too.

    I think Leech Seed would the least useful move since the idea is that you keep the Pokemon you use Switcheroo on alive so you can set up, plus Abomasnow is immune to it anyway, so I'd say you're better off with Sunny Day anyway.
  24. Pikiwyn


    Aug 22, 2010
    Even though I don't really have time I started playing the team again yesterday and what I've noticed is that Leech Seed isn't needed. With Sunny Day, Poliwrath which is one of the worst Substiuters can be beat with Whimsicott and Butterfree by Charming on the first turn and then using Sunny Day and switching and attacking at the right times. I wouldn't switch Flash for Taunt though, Taunt is great except that it only lasts 3 turns (2 if you count the switch), Butterfree really can't do much with 2 boosts.
    I also noticed that even with Quiver Dance speed is still important for when you have Butterfree as your last Pokemon, so I was wondering if with no SpA investment and Bug Buzz's low PP can you still knock out things like Emboar, Chandelure and Drifblim?
  25. Manveru123


    Feb 27, 2012
    3 turns should be enough. Taunt>switch>sleep powder, back to whimsi to charm if physical attackers, start setting up if not. I personally fell in love with Taunt on my leads, but that might be because stat boosters used to give me trouble.

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