May 9th 2012, Super Single Train: 579 Scizor, Leftovers, Technician 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, Adamant 176/200/120/--/99/83 (IV -1 HP, -1 Def, -1 SDef, -2 Spe) Bullet Punch / Bug Bite / Swords Dance / Protect Milotic, Sitrus Berry, Marvel Scale 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe, Bold 202/--/144/120/145/102 Scald / Toxic / Recover / Protect Dragonite, Lum Berry, Multiscale 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe, Adamant 167/204/115/--/120/132 Outrage / Earthquake / ExtremeSpeed / Dragon Dance May 11th 2012, reply to atsync's post Hidden for convenience (Move your mouse to reveal the content) Hidden for convenience (open) Hidden for convenience (close) Thank you, atsync. The team I used to reach 579 is a slight modification of a team I used autumn 2011 (peaking at 409 which surpassed #1 at that time, eventually posted here but deleted a few days later, before update), replacing a Focus Sash Garchomp with the Dragonite listed - recently got my hands on Multiscale and a few other Hidden Abilities (no Wi-Fi at home). I'm not sure which is better; while this version has the other beaten by 170 battles, the previous version lost due to human error, which wasn't the case this time, or it may have been - discussed later. That team was derived from something I used back when I started out on the Subway, some time after the international releases of Black and White, which peaked in the mid-100s with Scizor/Chandelure/Flygon. Said team had its origins in my time at the Battle Frontier, which is where I taught myself to play 'competitive' pkmn. Back then, I didn't use (have) information about the opponents and their pkmn, so when I finally did, I instantly reached 100 with Scizor/Gengar/Kingdra and stopped there, satisfied. With the Battle Subway, which I think has a higher difficulty level, I've continued past breaking 100. While I've always refrained from looking at the strategies posted in this thread, it has served as a source of encouragement and comfort while playing. Having some honestly achieved records to measure against, and knowing that other people out there spend hundreds of hours battling on the Subway (and even care about it) has been great. I might start reading into the thread, though. Since I've already been around most strategies myself, your takes could be interesting. While the text above may not tell you much about strategy, it draws a picture of my approach, and also provides some team building history. To give an adequate overview of the heuristics I use with this team would be an impossible task, given the great selection of Subway pkmn, and the fact that my team is built for standard 3v3 touch and go battles, without a specific goal (such as covering everything to set up and sweep). It would also involve lots of common sense, and stuff you all probably know from before. After all, as atsync said; it's a pretty straightforward team. This kind of knowledge is much better acquired from first hand experience. Only general advice I can give is that some teams, however well thought out and strong in theory, will not work in the Battle Subway, and that one cannot play as if critical hits and secondary effects shouldn't happen, and that they are unfair - you're playing a mode where the goal is to win as many battles as possible in one go without losing once; seemingly ridiculous chance occurrences are not malfunctions that end your streak untimely, they're essentially what you're playing against. If anyone has questions, I'll gladly answer them. As an example, here's a description of how I lost, as atsync requested. It provides full insight - not too entertaining. How I lost battle #580 to Artist Hacikan, May 9th 2012: Turn 1: My opponent for battle #580 was Artist Hacikan. My recent statistics with versions of this team against the #49< Artists Rikkyu and Hacikan were 71/29/0/0 percent at this point, values given as 3-0s/3-1s/3-2s/3-2!s, '!' signifying an actual chance of loss. While notable for its lack of 3-2s and 3-2!s, the 3-1 percentage is well above average, but all in all strong statistics considering the fact that Artists mainly use Steel-types, which resist both of Scizor's attacks. Main threat in Artists' roster is Magnezone, followed by Starmie and Porygon-Z. Hacikan leads with Porygon-Z (1-4), revealing its SAtk-raising Download Ability. Turn 2: Since none of the Porygon-Z can benefit from a free first turn, I Protect to see which version it is. It uses Thunder Wave, meaning it's version 1. Turn 3: Milotic switch-in against 205 SAtk, non-STAB, Download- and Wise Glasses-boosted Thunderbolt could be done to lose Milotic for a free Dragonite switch-in, resulting in Lum Berry and/or Multiscale break for one Dragon Dance, starting a non-Lum Outrage taking out Porygon-Z 1, however this is undesirable against an Artist due to his usage of Steel-types, and the same goes for the sacrificial act in general, as Scizor isn't necessarily any more valuable against Artists than Milotic is. Dragonite switch-in is out of question as well, since it would have to take 2 Thunderbolts/Thunder Waves, and doesn't want to Outrage at this point anyway. Sticking with Scizor, I can't take out Porygon-Z 1 with 2/+2 Bullet Punch/es at minimum damage roll, and it can take Scizor out with 2 of its Thunderbolts. As long as full paralysis and critical hit is avoided, Bug Bite followed up by Bullet Punch will give Porygon-Z 1 only a single turn before going out, leaving Scizor at either well below half HP (Thunderbolt), well below half HP and paralyzed (Thunderbolt plus secondary paralysis), or full HP and paralyzed (Thunder Wave). Not the best match-up, but I go for it, having taken out many Porygon-Z with Scizor. Porygon-Z 1 uses Thunder Wave, Scizor gets the 75% not fully paralyzed and uses Bug Bite, leaving Porygon-Z 1 with less HP than minimum damage roll Bullet Punch. Turn 4: As planned, go for knockout. Scizor gets the 75% not fully paralyzed a second time, knocking out Porygon-Z 1 with Bullet Punch. This priority shuffling Bug Bite to Bullet Punch strategy with no Swords Dances is used mainly when faced with a real threat. Also used against the more common Porygon-Z 4, but more leisurely so since Scizor eats the Sitrus Berry it holds, it has lower SAtk, lacks the Wise Glasses, and has to rely on critical hit (assuming Download) or secondary paralysis to threaten Scizor beyond cutting its replenishing HP, as it doesn't know Thunder Wave. Turn 5: Hacikan brings out Magnezone (1-4). I'm very used to face Magnezone leads with Scizor, but this time around I've got paralysis and the Magnezone version is unknown. Both 1 and 3 carry Magnet Rise, so Protecting to scout or switching Dragonite in (assuming Sturdy, no Magnet Pull) would be foolish. Milotic is even worse, indubitably so considering Magnet Rise. Even with the Magnet Rise-less Magnezone 4, who is by far the most common (being a 4th version plus Battle Girls and Black Belts), I always send Scizor on a sacrificial course, simply breaking its possible Sturdy with Bug Bite, then playing 1 for 1 by knocking out Magnezone with Dragonite's Earthquake on the following turn (assuming no Volt Switch, which in most instances is somewhat beneficial to me). This is of course regardless of Ability, since both Magnet Pull and Sturdy force me to do this, albeit in different ways. So, since I can't afford to Protect, I Bug Bite to break Sturdy (should've Bullet Punched because of paralysis speed drop; mistake which makes no difference in retrospect). Magnezone Magnet Rises, meaning it's version 1 or 3. Scizor bypasses full paralysis for the third time in a row, breaking Sturdy, if any. Turn 6: Now it's all about getting Magnet Rise to wear off in time for Dragonite's Earthquake. Logically, I Protect to achieve this end, but the 25% full paralysis finally kicks in on this 4th try, and the turn isn't spent as planned, instead taking a Charge Beam granting Magnezone (now confirmed as version 3) the 70% chance +1 SAtk increase. Turn 7: Logically, I try to Protect once more, but the 25% full paralysis persists, and Magnezone 3 uses Charge Beam again, this time without the 70% benefit. Turn 8: Three of the five turns of Magnet Rise have passed, no thanks to Protect. Effect will wear off at the end of next turn (9). I can Protect, yes, but if Magnezone 3 gets to use Magnet Rise once more, the game is lost. If I manage to Protect, Charge Beam (90%) may miss next turn, allowing Magnezone 3 to Magnet Rise anew - that makes for a 10% chance of certain game loss. So I choose Bug Bite, allowing Magnezone 3 to knock Scizor out with Charge Beam before Bug Bite can be executed (Magnezone 3 got its 70% +1 SAtk here). This could have been a game losing mistake, but since the other option included a 10% chance of certain game loss, and only had 75% of taking effect in the first place, I wouldn't explain the loss from this alone. As such, I don't view this match as lost due to a misplay/human error, which is unfortunate, seeing as human error is the best way to lose regarding the strength of your team. Turn 9: Dragonite is switched in as Milotic was an irrelevant option since it isn't knocked out by even maximum damage roll 200 SAtk, STAB, +2 Charge Beam, meaning that it would only allow Magnezone 3 to Magnet Rise anew, not wear it off. This is Magnezone 3's last turn with Magnet Rise. Obviously can't Outrage, ExtremeSpeed would do meaningless damage (Sturdy broken already), choose to Dragon Dance, knowing that critical hit +2 Flash Cannon will have a fair chance of knocking out through Multiscale. Protect would've been great for this turn, but Dragonite's moveset is crammed (there's a reason you don't see a great move like Roost in there, or more coverage). Does below half HP, meaning that with Multiscale gone, Magnezone 3 can easily knock Dragonite out next turn. Magnet Rise wears off. Turn 10: Finally able to Earthquake, misses due to BrightPowder (10%), Magnezone 3 knocks Dragonite out with Charge Beam, and gets the boost (70%). Had Earthquake hit, Magnezone 3 would've been knocked out, leaving only a Claydol 1-4 (as seen in replay) which is easily handled by Dragonite and Milotic, no risk. Turn 11: Only Milotic left, game lost. Scald it, get Thunder Wave'd. Turn 12: Get knocked out by +3 Charge Beam. When it comes to misfortune, this battle is nothing compared to what I've repeatedly seen on this streak alone (as far as I'm concerned, Tornadus 2 is invincible on a good day, and I bet we all know about Walrein 4), but it's all about when and how these unfortunate events occur. May 14th 2012, reply to Peterko's post Hidden for convenience (Move your mouse to reveal the content) Hidden for convenience (open) Hidden for convenience (close) Thank you, Peterko. Ongoing streak of 406 was posted in November 2011. The question in post #1121 is directed at me, or my Milotic. It was achieved some time before posting, though. I deleted it because I feared it would ruin my Subway fun - no offense, your thread is wonderful, as I've already pointed out. Either way, I'm pretty sure my 406 never surpassed ~Mercury~'s November 509 (which I didn't know about until like 2012), so I've probably never been at #1. When I later picked up the streak (before 2012), I only won 3 battles (409) before losing to an early misplay, hence my comment on how my previous version (Garchomp) of this team lost to (non-hindsight) human error. As for believability, all the post had was a picture and some text touching on trial and error approach, I think. Yes, I see, you provide impressive amounts of information about your streaks. As I said, I will answer any questions any of you may have, and that would also make it easier to give you what you want. For now, I could show screens from the Excel sheets I use when playing. While the first screen is from the set in stone Subway roster data, the second screen is from 3-0/3-1/3-2/3-2!-statistics accumulated from a humble 1083 battles, 300 with Garchomp (nothing from 409/autumn, all is recent) and 783 with Dragonite, only counting battles past #49. Should've separated by versions from the beginning, really. Too late now, all entangled. Well, if people have trouble reaching 100 (or more) with attacking teams, they just have to play more, really. I don't remember the last time this team/these teams did under 100, but I doubt it was in 2012. As for Protect, using this in conjunction with Leftovers makes Scizor a way better dancer, and makes it more defensive (in terms of ability to deal with critical hits) than it could ever dream of being with Roost. I've done this since the Battle Frontier, and every time I try something else it doesn't even compare. Wish it did, though, since Leftovers would be great on Milotic, better than Sitrus Berry in many cases, but maybe not in the most important situations. Your comment on Protect may also count for Milotic (like post #1121). I imagine the alternatives to be Ice Beam or Substitute. I'd like to see a universal argument made for the use of either of these over Protect, as I find both way too situational. Protect is always used; for Toxic damage, for PP-depletion of foes' dangerous moves (for example: two chances of critical hit Draco Meteor, Head Smash, etc. instead of five), for PP-conservation of Recover, for scouting, even SolarBeam/Sunny Day, etc. That's right, I don't use Substitute on this team. Do you agree with that passage of mine, which you quote here? As said, straight on 3v3 touch and go battles. Looks like a counter intuitive strategy, reading said passage, which is meant to describe the essence of the Battle Subway. The reason I use this is because I think it's more fun. Sure, Ferrothorn is an adorable pkmn, but if the battles last way longer and I can't even look at it, because it's hiding behind a Substitute, I'd rather go 'standard'. Actually, whenever I climb ~100-200 with 'foolproof', 'fixed-strategy' teams, I always change back to 'standard' while going, unless I lose to some blatant misplay before doing so. When I repeatedly win insanely misfortunate battles with teams like the one at 579, I embrace this strategy, knowing that it has its risks, but is more fun and much faster (playing speed is obviously an important factor when it comes to giving it another go), although not as fast as many other teams, like Shell Smash Cloyster. I usually use other teams or versions to reach #49 faster, by the way, but I could imagine that would be normal here. You ask for statistics - are the images above adequate? That's all I use when battling. I initially didn't post more than the required information (not even paragraphs), because I didn't want to be all self important stranger, and history would suggest that I'd delete the post in a few days anyway. I understand the caution, especially with me coming from outside, not using the thread for strategy, etc. - some of the streaks here are hard to believe for me as well. I guess there are ways to produce counterfeit record screen photos, and that it would be almost impossible to safeguard against, proof-wise, which is a shame. I wonder what became of that supposedly ongoing, now #2, Super Double Train streak of 686 - is Speed Boost Blaziken that strong in the Subway? Critical hits, (secondary) status, and OHKO-moves are examples (flinch is very important too) of those percentage risks I have to live with when using this team. When Walrein 4 Sheer Colds/Fissures two of my pkmn, or when all of the foes' 3 pkmn lead off with critical hits, there's no plan for my team, and I just have to do what I can, with what's left. Adding a tough match-up, undesirable pacing, misplay, hazardrous decision, and/or continuing misfortune, the game is lost and I'll have to start over or take a break. Simple as that. The team is generally able to handle ridiculously biased battles, as my streaks show. I think the double usage of high powder damaging priority-moves may have a say in covering up bad situations. The usage of Protect helps too, as does having a pkmn with strong defenses (all of you using Suicune know that even better, although Milotic does have the advantage of Recover), and more importantly I think it has a say that my team(s) is essentially a two-pkmn cell of Scizor and Milotic, with Dragonite (or Garchomp) serving as backup/insurance/rear guard - it (they) is used way less than the others. OHKO-moves are easier to handle with Garchomp version (because of Focus Sash), and something that helps a lot is immunity to Horn Drill/Guillotine and/or Fissure (former is experienced when I, as I sometimes do, opt for the defensively weaker Jellicent - Cursed Body is delicious). I would expect that from you, noticing the Electric weakness. Garchomp version obviously handles this, as seen in the Depot Agent battles, which used to be the easiest of all, and now almost guarantee a 3-1. Strangely they haven't been that hard, with only one 3-2 (not '3-2!'), involving Electrode scoring a turn of self hurt (confusion), secondary paralysis, followed up by Durant causing two flinches and a critical hit - all against Scizor and Dragonite, so over few turns, and not a result of many turns = many chance occurrences (Milotic). No chance of loss, though - hence 3-2 without '!'. The Electric-types that resist Bug Bite in addition to Bullet Punch are troublesome - namely Magnezone, Zapdos, and Thundurus. Without critical hits/secondary effects, and with polarized damage rolls to my opponents advantage, Scizor can go 1-1 with Thundurus 234, thanks to Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed. Against threats, such as these, the lack of switching is what costs me, seen also against lesser threats like Raikou (Volt Switch can be devastating, though), Jolteon, Electrode, etc. Garchomp allowed more switching than Dragonite. Generally I want to go back to Garchomp version, because of the advantages mentioned, and also because I feel like a kid with a GameShark when using Multiscale against the Hidden Abilities-less Subway roster. However, I can't let go of Dragonite's Lum Berry insurance, and its major edge over Garchomp regarding boosted speed, via Dragon Dance. As a stand-alone pkmn, I think Dragonite is stronger, albeit solely thanks to Multiscale, no kidding.