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Challenge Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
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    I agree with this (even more of a lurker though). Each person's contribution should be valued, and if it differs with someone else's, then instead of one person being wrong, they have had different experiences, particularly in relation to subjective things like fun.
    And there is definitely no need to become confrontational.

    I hope that you return at least once, ntrnsc mtvtn. Please don't think everyone disagrees with you, and please don't remove the records of the acheivements that you've won.


    EDIT: Also, forums are a flawed way of communicating, and it's good for both people to give each other leeway when responding.
  2. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    If this is true, then you should indeed have stayed away from forums because it's obvious to anyone who has played a few hundred battles in the Subway that no team is unbeatable, especially compared to Gen 4. No one including myself has ever intimated that my team is unbeatable, so forgive me for assuming you weren't actually attempting to engage in some sort of discussion. If you genuinely expected someone to respond to a post that was 1,700 words with just one, then, again, perhaps you shouldn't be posting on forums. That's not how they operate, and that's especially not how I operate (no one who's familiar with these threads is at all surprised at my thorough response to your post).

    I wasn't going to offer a sheepish, almost apologetic "no" to your question about my team's viability, one that would indicate that I've somehow backed into the #1 spot. Forgive me for giving you the benefit of the doubt of wanting your post to be responded to in kind if you genuinely expected a one word answer, but when explanation is expected, I will not disappoint. I can't say I'm surprised that (or if) you differ with this ideal, given that you seem to have expected the rest of us to accept your incredibly minimalist 579-streak post that was also your first on these forums, an oddity wildly exacerbated by your later posts demonstrating that you in fact are one of the most capable posters these threads have ever seen and not one who is unwilling or unable to explain him- or herself.

    Forgive me for not responding to the Prankster Taunt thing, I had roughly 1,680 other words in your post to give their due. If I haven't mentioned it already, yes Thundurus and Tornadus are too "stupid" to use Taunt on Whimsicott, using Volt Switch and Hurricane respectively. Volt Switch is almost as annoying for obvious reasons but not as bad as Taunt. Trainers who can use these two pokemon are rare, and only in one instance are guaranteed to use the sets in question (even though they're the otherwise popular set4), so I don't see them often, and even less as the lead.

    Effect Spore is found on a whopping total of one pokemon in the Subway in Breloom, who needs to not have Poison Heal and also present itself as the second pokemon for me to care. If it leads and it does have Effect Spore, it will be dead to its Toxic Orb in about seven turns after Whimsy Taunts it (Tricking is pointless). Static and Flame Body can be annoying but can be played around if I really care, and as with Effect Spore only present a real issue on the second poke. I usually don't end up even caring about Flame Body because Dragonite can still mow down a shitton of pokes at an effective +2 behind a Sub. Again, forgive me for seeming to have skipped a few of your reservations, but literally nothing has changed on how a trickscarf team deals with generations-old abilities and I and others have indeed posted how to deal with them in this thread and its previous iterations.


    And this is why I mentioned beating around the bush—it has nothing to do with you being a "little wanker" and everything to do with the fact that there could almost not be a more obvious reason to use the team if you or anyone is looking for an increase. It is the #1 team on the list. It is really that simple and I only hate to have to point this out again because I really, really, really don't want to be perceived as tooting my own horn. The record and the explanation behind the team speak for themselves for those looking to increase their own streaks, and it's a little annoying to even have to type this. Of course, you have your *own* reasons for not wanting to use the team, which is fine, but don't profess to speak for everyone else when you "think out loud" on a forum. If you were speaking for just yourself (which I doubt) then, with respect, I would ask you who cares whether or not you personally are going to use someone else's team. I don't think you were speaking just for yourself, which is why I responded the way I did.

    Forry does 29-34% to Whimsy with -2 Attack Explosion, meaning that I essentially trade my Sash for a 3-2 lead. Unless you think Focus Sash is integral to winning up 3-2 you should realize that I like my chances in this situation (which has happened a handful of times). A ton of the "second poke" would-be threats, for example, disappear when Draggy doesn't have to worry about statusing itself killing the second poke it faces cause the battle would be over. With regard to 5pp moves and the like, I will tell you right now that if I were assured +4 and a Sub at 100% HP with Dragonite with two mystery pokemon left to face, I would take it every time. Every single time and I am not kidding. You can come back at me with some pokemon beats pokemon with defensive spread or typing but I will stand by this given how much Subway I've played. And Weavile's a piece of cake because its actions don't alter my strategy—I've thought about it, come up with a viable way of beating it and proven that, like every other pokemon, it needs numerous instances of hax to threaten me, despite its seemingly worrisome on-paper type advantage over my team.

    You *have* drawn that line though, numerous times. You've nitpicked nearly every single part of my team and discredited the strategy, citing, unprompted I might add, literally dozens of reservations you have with it. Before you think I've actually taken offense to these reservations I will note that I have posted in this thread that I actually *welcome* nitpicking of my teams. The only difference here is that you've voiced opinions to which I could have replied with one word: "scoreboard". I'm above that though and have actually striven to distance myself from the record (stating at least twice that it's the #1 team, not that it's "my" team), and, again, I actually like this kind of back-and-forth as I stated in my previous post.

    So if you're really just musing aloud and using this thread as some sort of diary, I would ask you, after insisting that the question genuinely carries no malice: who asked you? Who asked you to use this thread as your diary? Who asked you what your opinion was about another team? Now those questions are going to look unfair no matter what so I will answer for you: "I did." We all did—this thread invites such musings and thoughts and is how these threads thrive. But you very, very literally asked for the responses I've issues thus far. Remember, a real diary can't write you back.

    I did say it was boring, yes. I'm not the one making unsolicited posts about others' teams being boring, though. And the point of referencing usage statistics was to highlight the fact that utility is incredibly relative and can't be used as a basis for Subway arguments. What difference does it make whatsoever that the AI can't use Whimsicott? They most likely would if it had about 15 more Base Attack and Special Attack—statistics that would in no way alter how I've used it. Why does it matter to you that the AI can't use it? It bothers me a lot more when I see the AI activate pinch berries that aren't available to us.

    I can state that you're waxing hypocritical (which is different from calling you a hypocrite) when you demonstrate a lack of experience using my team, asking so many reservation-laden questions about it that have either already been answered or easily put to rest here, yet you're offering to help people who have demonstrated a similar misestimation of strategies. When you say "I'm not sure if I should correct people when they write stuff that is plain wrong" you're expressing some air of superiority over some unnamed posters, when you yourself have no right to express such sentiment when your 1,700-word unsolicited nitpick of my own team/strategy was objectively and unequivocally full of "stuff that is just plain wrong". I'm going to requote something from your original post on this:

    "So, even if one manages to get Dragonite perfectly set up in every single battle, there are still so many things that can go wrong, and as such I'm very surprised that Jumpman16 has reached 630 with that strategy, which has nothing to fall back on. I must be missing something."

    Besides the fact that you'd have us believe that this was some diary-entry to which you didn't expect me to respond in kind, I went to great lengths to show you what you were indeed missing. Dragonite is really, really hard to kill (as in "igarvey: dragonite survives stab ch blizzards now" hard). The genies never use Taunt. Gigalith1 and 2 are rare and never use Rock Blast (and, now that I think about it, would need five hits to actually do anything with since it almost certainly takes two hits to break my Sub and a third to affect Multiscale). There simply aren't nearly as many combinations of Focus Sash and Brightpowder and Quick Claw as you may have thought given the distribution of those items through the four respective pokemon sets. I salivate when I see Excadrill4 because Poison Jab makes my job easier. Ice Pokemon hardly even use Ice moves on Mesprit to get locked into. And so on, and so on, and I'm not even including your follow-up reservations from your latest post.

    Let me repaste this then:

    "So, even if one manages to get Dragonite perfectly set up in every single battle, there are still so many things that can go wrong, and as such I'm very surprised that Jumpman16 has reached 630 with that strategy"

    You may not know me, but why don't you take a step back and consider why someone may find this "offensive" (your word). The #1 and #2 streaks in DPPT were Trick teams, and they both murdered the Tower for well over 2,000-win streaks. This Whimsy one is a slight variant. And since you said "Jumpman16" and not "someone", I think it's fair to state that it's Jumpman16 who has the #1 streak in both games, with the same strategy. I think it's also fair to say that no one who paid any attention to the last thread (Smogon's second-most popular of all time), or this one, or who knows much of anything about me would be "very surprised" that Jumpman16 has the Tower/Subway record again with a Trick team. It's fair to say that I know what I'm doing, so what were you attempting to gain by posting this comment?

    Streak length is unfortunately the only measure of "greatness" in this thread. If you think you're annoyed, imagine how Peterko feels right now, or how I felt when I was 2,100 battles behind him years ago. This isn't always fun endeavor, and as you noted, teambuilding and strategizing is much, much more fun. People like me "maintain our fun" by defending these things when they are challenged, lest we be relegated to accomplishing mere lucky, "very surprising" streaks by the uninitiated. I don't care one way or another if you post again (you have like seven posts, let's be real), because these threads have seen people like you come and go and the real enthusiasts stick around.
  3. Tomaius

    Tomaius

    Joined:
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    Its sad that the thread that inspired so many players by you Jumpman are now being pushed away by your aggression about this. Instead of being mature and simply explaining your set you decide to lunge into a full blown personal argument.
  4. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

    Joined:
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    413
    I remember seeing a strategy involving Truant Durant in the Battle Subway, can someone remind me of it?
  5. Manveru123

    Manveru123

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  6. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

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    I believe that is if the target's ability IS Truant, not if the user's is.
  7. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Wait, who's pushed away, the guy with seven spoiler-tag–riddled posts who had said before I even read got to his 1,700-word "diary entry" that he probably wasn't going to return anyway? Self-admitted lurkers like you who wouldn't even post if not to shine upon us with brilliant white knighting? This thread, for whatever reason, has been dead for months, and that's the sad part.

    If I wanted to, I could argue that his posts have pushed people away more than my response to his one about my team later did or may. That post sat awkwardly unaddressed to for over a month before I got to it. His similar dismissal of the Truant strategy as "1,000-win viable" would surely not encourage me as an outsider to want to post here, if I were almost certain of being "greeted" with skepticism and nitpicks and criticism if I achieved any success. Regardless, I doubt ntrnsc would even had had much of a reason to offer his odd, unprompted criticism of a team and record that had been established months prior if the people you're referring to (people who you would have us believe I have pushed away) were even a fraction as active as I was before I went to graduate school.

    I essentially exclusively post in this thread, and have for two years and its earliest iterations in which I singlehandedly had a good 10% of the posts. I will therefore express remorse for "tarnishing this thread" by not making more of an attempt to keep this thread alive in the past several months (other than my "self-sufficient subway pokemon" attempt at discussion-sparking) a hundred times faster than I will for however defensive or aggressive I've come across to one poster in the past few days. Please don't try to implicate my posting style, which has hardly changed since I joined, as a reason why some throng of inspired yet reticent players are and have been wary of contributing.

    If you have anything relating to the Subway you want to add to this thread, Tomaius, please, by all means, contribute. I have teams and ideas I've been planning to post for some time, but by now we shouldn't need me to encourage other people to post here, should we?
  8. isshoni

    isshoni

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    BW Battle Subway Super Doubles Streak of 224

    [​IMG]

    Yesterday I finished my biggest streak yet! I feel so happy now as I almost managed to break into the top 10. This team is good, but certainly not flawless as I started having lots of close calls after I reached the 200 mark. I might give it another go, but I don't really see this team going further than 300 due to its obvious flaws.

    Here's the team:

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine (M) "Alessi"
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    EVs: HP 4, Att 252, Spd 252
    Stats: 186/200/100/81/80/132
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Rock Slide

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos "Regan"
    Item: Wide Lens
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 29/xx/31/29/30/28
    EVs: HP 100, Def 4, Sp. Att 156, Spd 248
    Stats: 177/98/106/180/110/150
    - Discharge
    - Heat Wave
    - Air Cutter
    - Signal Beam

    I wanted to try out a team with the Discharge-Earthquake combo and first went with Landorus but soon realised it was much weaker, ice weak, lacked priority and had an overall inferior damage output. I then realised Mamoswine was gonna be the perfect replacement and I'd even wanted to try it out for the longest time so I gave it a go.

    Mamoswine performed brilliantly and Thick Fat makes it even better, eliminating the fear of fire types and making ice teams very easy to handle. The moves are obvious, Rock Slide over Superpower for doubles to hit both opponents and Icicle Crash over Spear for more damage. Granted my first streak with a Snow Cloak Mamo ended at 103 due to IC missing.

    Zapdos completes the combo and comes with two other moves that hit multiple foes. Zapdos doesn't have too much offensive investment, but just enough to make use of these moves. I just threw on the EVs because I was way too lazy to calculate the Sp. Att needed to take down specific foes. A bit more might've been nice to ease taking down Walrein and other bulky water pals in two hits. It has just enough bulk to survive Froslass' and Cryogonal's Blizzards which I think is cool enough.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross "Galadriel"
    Item: Air Balloon
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
    EVs: HP 252, Att 172, Def 4, Sp. Def 76 Spd 4
    Stats: 187/194/151/103/120/91
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Bullet Punch
    - Protect

    Metagross suffers from the same problem as Zapdos. I just slapped on some EVs hoping for the best. Meteor Miss is lovely as ever and one of the reasons along with Zen Headbutt why this team wont get too far. I got lucky and almost all misses happened in matches where I was in no danger at all. I will never let go of Meteor Miss as it again proved itself to be on my side.

    Around 180 I got into a bad situation being left with just Milotic and Metagross against a Slowbro and a Mismagius. I would've been just fine, but Mismagius used Perish Song and I had only three turns to kill them with nothing but resisted moves. I got lucky when Scald burned Slowbro on the first turn and Meteor Miss hit every time smashing the opposition to the stars.

    Protect is too important for this team to replace with coverage. It lets me Earthquake and Discharge even after the Balloon is gone, which doesn't even happen that often. A strong stab in this case is better than a weak coverage move hence Zen Headbutt.

    [​IMG]
    Milotic (F) "Ivanka"
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 31/xx/31/31/30/31
    EVs: HP 252, Def 252, Sp. Att 4
    Stats: 202/58/144/121/145/101
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Toxic

    Milotic is just Milotic. It can take almost anything and dish out just enough damage to be useful and also Toxic stall. Metagross' Protect helps with stall too. I should probably change that extra point from Sp. Att to Speed to outspeed other Milotic and Gyarados, but never gotten around to it. I also have the vaguest recollection of once upon a time reading somewhere that the extra point ensures a KO on some form of Salamence. A very, very vague recollection, which probably means I made it up.



    I can't really remember how I lost as I'd been going straight for hours and hours and was a nervous wreck from at least five close calls that almost gave me a heart attack. I was facing a legendary team and a Terrakion was my undoing, which I always expect with any team. There's no way to stop it. I missplayed badly as Terrakion Stone Edged Zapdos as I Icicle Crashed Latios. Terrakion had always before targetted Mamo so I assumed it'd do the same this time as well and I could just Discharge twice to kill it. What sealed my fate was Virizion Leaf Blading the life out of Milotic.

    The closest call I had before this was around 145 iirc. I was left against Kingdra 4 and Blissey 4 with just Metagross with 77 HP. Somehow I managed to Protect and attack through 15 turns and take them both out. It was just incredible, and another reason why I won't ever give Meteor Miss and Zen Headbutt up.

    What made this team the most fun use was the fact that all of these Pokémon are some my absolute favourites. A record achieved with Pokémon I'm forcing myself to like such as Heatran and Ferrothorn wouldn't mean as much to me.
  9. CBManBearPig

    CBManBearPig

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Messages:
    204
    I decided to give Truant Durant a shot, alongside Moody Smeargle and MoxieMence. Well, my Durant / Smeargle / Salamence team finally lost after a nice round streak of 75, due to something along the lines of a misclick. I was carelessly watching tv while playing and pressed the wrong button which led to my demise. It was against a Veteran with Articuno / Terrakion / something else. This annoyed me because I've destroyed these pokemon time and time again.

    The battle went like this: I sent out Durant, he sent out Articuno, blah blah Entrainment. Next turn we both loafed. Then I must've accidentally switched in Smeargle, who ate an Ice Gem Blizzard for the KO. Bewildered, I send in Durant, who barely missed the 1HKO on Articuno with Rock Slide and 2HKO'd instead. The veteran sent out Terrakion, who easily took a Rock Slide and then KO'd with Close Combat. I switch in Salamence, who is 1HKO'd by Stone Edge. That's game.

    If I wasn't watching tv then the battle would've been a piece of cake and might have even reached 100 wins. And maybe if I told Durant to use Iron Head instead of Rock Slide I could've won too. I'll keep trying until I reach a higher streak though, hopefully at least 100.

    Durant @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Truant
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    Moves: Entrainment / Rock Slide / X-Scissor / Iron Head

    Smeargle @ Leftovers
    Ability: Moody
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    Moves: Protect / Sub / Spore / Baton Pass

    Salamence @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    Moves: Draco Meteor / Outrage / EQ / Flamethrower

    Edit: forgot to mention: Truant Durant is from BW2, but was traded back to the original BW for this streak.
  10. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    199
    I'm currently playtesting a team for BW2 subway. I call it Team Yawn, that's how slow and stally it is! It's pretty much my old Ferrothorn (slightly different moveset), my old Chansey and ntrscn's idea of Gliscor, except my current one has a bit different EVs. I'm only at 57 wins so far, but I've noticed that so far there were no "close" battles. Not a single one. I'm always in control from start to finish. One time a silly Dragonite tried to freeze hax his way through my ferro and chansey, but ran out of PP lol.

    I'll try reaching at least 100 wins or so, and continue this in subway. With a "proper" Gliscor this time, hopefully.
  11. lolnub

    lolnub

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Yesterday I played the subway again, which was some time ago. I used my tailwind team (Heracross, Tornadus, Metagross, Hydreigon) and lost in wierdest and best battle I have ever seen from an AI.

    Log (open)


    Turn 1

    Fisherman Fird Send out Slowking and Politoed

    Heracross Protect
    Tornadus Acrobatics Slowking (in red)
    Politoed Waterfall Tornadus (89/155)
    Slowking Trick Room

    Turn2
    Heracross switched out, send in Hydreigon
    Slowking Ice beam Tornadus KO
    Politoed Belly Drum
    I switch in Metagross

    Turn 3
    Hydreigon Protect
    Slowking Surf Heals Politoed, metagross (108/162)
    Politoed Rest
    Metagross Earthquake, Slowking KO, Politoed 60% left
    Fisherman Fird switches in Dewdong

    Turn4
    Dewdong used Surf, Heals Politoed, Critical Hit Metagross (5/162) Hydreigon (144/168)
    Politoetoed waterfall Metagross KO
    Hydreigon Dragon Pulse Politoed (35 %)
    I switch in Heracross

    Turn 5
    Heracross Protect
    Hydreigon Protect
    Dewdong Ice Beam Heracross Protected
    Politoed Waterfall Heracross Protected
    Twisted the dimensions to normal

    Turn 6
    Dewdong’s Quick Claw activated Ice Beam Hydreigon KO
    Heracross Close Combat Dewdong KO
    Politoed Waterfall Heracross KO

    Last mon was a Seismitoed.


    I know I made a mistake. First turn I should have double targeted the Slowking or at least Taunt it, so he couldn't set up TR. I still could have won but Quick Claw had to activate.
    I didn't really mind losing (except for that moment), because of the coolest play by the AI I have ever seen. Using Belly Drum + Chesto Rest and together with a lot of surfers when the Belly Drummer has Water Absorb was just totally awesome. I have experienced little things like will-o-wisp a Flash Fire pokemon next to the partner but never something this big of tactic by the AI.

    Anyone else having experienced this kind of battles?
  12. wdistance

    wdistance

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    517
    How come no one has posted a record with speed boost Blaziken in a single streak? It seems like a good strategy.
  13. Progeusz

    Progeusz

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Probably because it's too frail and doesn't have a moveslot for Substitute. It's screwed by QC hax or some of priority without it though. HJK doesn't have perfect accuracy too and there's FB recoil. Fire/Fighting has quite big number of resists, mainly flying or psychic dragons. It might be hard to get Swords Dance and without it, many threats will survive and KO back.
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Messages:
    1,004
    Never used Blaziken myself but there is this:

    Maybe that will give you some insight to how it performs? Another issue with Blaziken is simply that it is hard to obtain it legally since hacks can't be added to the list. It was only released in Japan as a male-exclusive event (i.e. you can't breed more of them) so you probably won't get your hands on a legal one unless you know someone with one.

    Not that I'm questioning how Stay Gold got his :p

    Anyway, I haven't been play much subway lately, but I did try the Emerald Battle Factory, which was a complete failure! It's wierd because the battles seem to be a lot easier than in the 4th gen equivalent but I end up losing to hax. I guess the fact that everything seems to have a hax item (Focus Band can go to hell) makes all the difference...

    I'm a tad late here but I just wanted to say that I like the way Hitmonlee is used here. Normally his lower speed (and lack of secondary STAB) make Infernape the better choice, but Tailwind helps offset the speed issue, and Infernape's Fire attacks have issues (Flare Blitz breaks sash, Overheat is inaccurate and lowers special attack, and Flamethrower is just weak without Blaze, as is Fire Punch unless you have Iron Fist). Meanwhile, Hitmonlee gets more power and Limber is great considering you will want to Fake Out Electric types, who love blasting Tornadus.

    I still prefer Infernape because its higher speed does mean I don't need to use Tailwind against as many things, but Hitmonlee is still cool!
  15. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
    1,070
    Hello my friends, it´s been a while. I apologize for neglecting this topic for 2 months.

    Updated the list

    Feel free to post any mistakes you find in the records listing here.

    Yeah, no Pokémon for me for over 2 months now (I have like 500 hours on Diablo 3 already). There were a few times when one of my DS lites (the one with a life) tried to tell me "come and play me" by turning itself on, but I just walked by it :)

    As for the whole Black & White 2 thing. Judging by the posts here, the Tower 2 seems to be the same as Tower 1. So no need to have a separate list because of that. But, there´s the stuff with Truant Durant and new move tutors etc. I´ll be honest, I don´t know:
    a) if new Pokémon (like Truant Durant or fat Swinub) were just added into the DW areas while I was away - I mean if they´re accessible through BW 1 or just BW2
    b) if there´s two separate DWs for BW 1 and BW 2 or if there´s just one DW and you can access everything from both games,
    c) all DW abilities were released already.

    I would have to research this, or someone could answer in a short post. Basically, I want to have some opinions about listing separate records for BW 1 and BW 2 (when it comes out in the US/EU) and why?

    Until I figure out this stuff, I´ve decided to list Durant like (move tutor) records in a different color or marked in the main list for the moment, like this:

    73. CBManBearPig (75) - [size=-2]Durant, Smeargle, Salamence[/size]

    EDIT: Seems like there´s just one DW and there´s a new area + some new pokémon were added while I was gone. Hmm I guess we can list everything together, or do you want a separate "Durant" list? Are the move tutors game-breaking? I think the move tutors would validate a second list, not sure yet.

    I don´t know how long my Pokébreak will take. I promise to update the list more frequently. Keep up the good work guys, have fun and good luck achieving long streaks.
  16. Maverick Hunter

    Maverick Hunter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    215
    Every pokémon with hidden ability from B2W2 can be passed to B1W1.

    Pokemon with hidden ability not released yet: Ekans, Arbok, Paras, Parasect, Articuno, Zapdos, moltres, Mewtwo, Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium, Cyndaquil, Quilava, Typhlosion, Totodile, Croconaw, Feraligatr, Aipom, Ambipom, Pineco, Forretress, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Wurmple, Beautifly, Dustox, Seedot, Nuzleaf, Shiftry, Nincada, Ninjask, Budew, Roselia, Roserade, Gulpin, Swalot, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Kricketot, Kricketune, Heatran, Snivy, Servine, Serperior, Oshawott, Dewott, Samurott, Tepig, Pignite, Emboar, Pansage, Simisage, Pansear, Simisear, Panpour, Simipour, Timburr, Gundurr, Conkeldurr, Throk, Sawk, Scraggy, Scrafty, Gothita, Gothorita (but it will have an event on Dream World soon), Gothitelle, Litwick, Lampent, Chandelure, Larvesta, Volcarona.
  17. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,004
    Hi Peterko. Nice to see you back and thanks for updating.

    For the DW stuff you are asking about, only Unova pokemon like Durant are "exclusive" to BW2, but BW1 players can get them by trading with BW2 players. All non-Unova pokemon (like Thick Fat Swinub) are available in BW1 and BW2 DW. Basically, BW2 has the same areas in DW as BW1 but BW2 has a few Unova pokemon added.

    I guess whether we have separate lists comes down to how much BW1 exclusive players care about being at a "disadvantage". I'm getting BW2 anyway, but if I only had access to BW1 I personally wouldn't care if we did or not. If I chose not to get BW2 (and therefore miss out on some tutors) well then I'll just have to suck it up and deal with it, but I wouldn't want special treatment by having my streak listed as "BW1 only" (not to mention that most people have access to Wi-Fi now to get BW2 stuff). That's just how I personally feel though; if other people who actually will be BW1 exclusive want to have separate listings then that's fine too.
  18. NoCheese

    NoCheese

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    I guess part of the issue is how much new stuff the tutors really add. A lot of what the tutors allow could be done previously, it just required breeding in a Gen IV game. I'm certainly excited to be able to breed in Gen V and still access the tutor moves, since I never really put in the time to learn Gen IV RNG, but many of the pokes I'm most excited about playing with are things that a Gen IV RNGer could already have.

    Obviously for Unova-only pokes and those with dream world abilities, the tutors have the potential for a much bigger impact, but without going through the list really carefully and theorymoning whether the tutors add any moves I badly want on a Unova or dream world pokemon, the impact doesn't seem huge to me. I guess there's Moxie/Dragon Dance/Outrage Salamence and a host of potential new Trick users enabled by the tutors, but nothing is leaping out quite like Bullet Punch Scizor did (I guess that was technically a heart scale moveset add, but same idea). And I'd like to see a few Truant Durant streaks before we conclude Durant breaks the format.

    Maybe just put an ampersand (&) next to steaks that require access to BWII pokemon abilities or tutors, but keep the lists together for now. That way, they'll be easy to split later on if necessary, but we keep them together while we get a feel for how much BWII changes things.
  19. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Hi! I haven't been playing Subway either. I was too busy with VGC. I thought I was done with VGC after Nats, but then somehow I won a trip to Hawaii for worlds, so, yeah, probably won't be doing anything on Subway until after then.

    I think eventually we'll probably want a Move tutor trade back BW1 list separate from regular BW1 list... if we see more and more better streaks that have BW2 move tutored moves, but for now and probably the near future, it's probably fine as is. That's my opinion!

    EDIT I'm fine with the ampersand idea too, though I prefer asterisk (*). :P
  20. Gertle627

    Gertle627

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Not a mistake, but more of an omission. Of course if it was done on purpose, then that's cool. It's not a big deal or anything but I did post a streak of 117 using the same team that got me to 123 wins.
  21. PeterT

    PeterT

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    I got my hands on a Truant Durant in a trade and decided to test it out. Simply said: it takes the fun out of the subway. I got a streak of 120 and I simply lost because I wasn't paying attention anymore: Switched out Durant, Forgot to use Entrainment, Subway saw his chance and punished me for it.

    Once you entrain the first Pokémon, you basically win. I had Dragonite (Aqua Tail, Dragon Claw, Protect, Dragon Dance) and Volcarona (Bug Buzz, Flamethrower, Protect, Quiver Dance) in the back. Set up to +6 on the Truant-turn, Protect on the other turn = win.
  22. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,464
    Has anyone else bothered with trying out Mold Breaker Excadrill on their doubles team? It's really interesting in theory on a disquake team for being able to hit all of those Electric types that resist Discharge(Yes including Eelektross). Not just that though, it's the only Pokemon with Mold Breaker and STAB Earthquake. Because of this, it easily nails most of the Pokemon that would live with Sturdy. It's not as hail weak as the typical Zapchomp leads.

    I've been trying it out a bit myself, and it's been pretty successful and it's mostly been VGCs that have been preventing me from getting a good streak with it atm. Right now I'm trying Scarf Excadrill and Leftovers Zapdos as leads, but I still haven't really worked out the back two yet.

    If anyone else wants to try Mold Breaker Excadrill, I'd be more than willing to lend you mine(albeit it Jolly). It just seems to have potential and I wanna know what you guys think of it!

    And yea it is a bw2 DW mon, so remember that :P
  23. RED Pyro

    RED Pyro

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Hello fellow subway goers. I have recently gotten a streak of 81 wins in the Super Double train. Not a fantastic streak, but I thought I would post it anyway.
    Show Hide


    Heres the team:

    Reptar (Tyranitar)at Air Balloon
    Adamant
    IVs: (31)(31)(31)(30)(31)(31)
    EVS: 176 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Spd
    Earthquake
    Protect
    Crunch
    Rockslide

    The speed Evs allow me to outspeed all metagross, except the naive one, which can`t ohko with meteor mash. Crunch for STAB, and earthwuake and rockslide for good spread moves. Protect cause protect. Thanks to Mercury for the EV spread.

    Moustachio (Alakazam) at Focus Sash
    Magic Guard
    Timid
    IVs:(31)(x)(31)(31)(31)(31)
    EVs:252 special attack, 252 speed
    Psychic
    Shadow ball
    Focus Blast
    Protect

    This thing hits hard and is quite nice in the sand with magic guard, which allows him to use a focus sash quite effectively. Psychic for STAB, shadow ball helps against ghosts and other psychic types. I try to avoid using focus blast as much as possible, but sometimes you have to use it.

    Kenmore (Rotom-W) at Choice Specs
    Modest
    IVs: (31)(x)(31)(30)(31)(30)
    EVs: 252 hp, 252 special attack
    Hydro Pump
    Thunder bolt
    Hidden Power (Fire)
    Shadow ball

    Kenmore is a monster with Choice specs equipped. I mostly use him against water teams, which give this team trouble. Hidden power fire cause fuck ferrothorn and escavalier. Hydro Pump and thunderbolt for stab and shadow ball is mostly filler.

    Terrakion at Life orb
    Jolly
    IVs:(31)(31)(31)(x)(31)(31)
    EVs: 252 attack, 252 spd
    Sacred Sword
    Rockslide
    Earthquake
    Protect

    Sacred sword over close combat because double teamers sucks, and so do cursers. Rockslide for another stab and a spread move. Earthquake for another spread move. I usually use this to clean up if Ttar and `zam couldn`t handle it. Also, if the opponent leads with double dark types, switch this guy in for a juicy attack boost.


    The strategy is to get rid of any fighting types with a psychic from alakazam, unless they have a payapa berry. Once fighting types are down, just keep on hitting them hard.

    I lost to a dumb misplay. I was watching TV at the same time so I wasn`t paying full attention. Anyway, it went something like this:

    Turn 1: Ttar and Zam vs Raikou and Heatran
    I protect with Zam while I select earthquake with Ttar. Heatran flash cannons for a little over half health while raikou thunderbolt crits him for the KO.

    Turn 2: I send out Terrakion and go for the earthquake. However, this heatran happens to be scarfed. They take out terrakion with combined attacks, while zam psychics the raikou into yellow health.

    Turn 3: Rotom out. Psychic ko raikou while zam gets into yellow health from flash cannon. Hydro Pump heatran for the KO.

    Turn 4: Articuno and Cresselia out. Zam dies. Rotom Hydro Pumps articuno 2 times, one being a miss. Procede to struggle against a cresselia. End of streak.

    It was fun while it lasted, but I`m growing bored of this team. I was thinking of doing a gravity team with dusknoir and Durant leading off. Durant with hustle of course.
  24. NoCheese

    NoCheese

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    I've acquired a Truant Durant and so have been testing out a Super Singles Team too. So far so good, but I'm still under 100, so not enough data to really have a strong feel yet.

    Seems to me that on a Durant team, you have to big issues to worry about:
    1. Bad things that can mess up the cripple effort. (Fake outs, U-Turns, Explosions)
    2. Bad things that can happen after the set up. (Hard hitting priority, Sturdy, Focus Sash, Bright Powder)

    I haven't theorymoned fully at all, but I'm going with Cloyster as my main sweeper, since +6 icicle spear OHKOs the vast majority of things while breaking through sashes and sturdy. It also sets up faster than pokes using +1/+1 moves, which both slightly speeds game play and allows more complete set up on enemy leads that die on their own (toxic orb, explosion after stacking spikes, etc.). It's a pity that the defensive drops from shell smash make it more vulnerable to priority from the opponent's second and third pokemon, but since Truant means it can keep its sash intact while setting up, it can survive one priority attack anyway.

    I'm using a boring max speed, max attack adamant Dragonite with Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Protect/Dragon Dance for my secondary sweeper. I strongly suspect something else might work better, but this is likewise beastly at +6/+6, and can, if necessary, set up on and beat a lot of pokemon without help from a cripple by Druant, which is a big plus. It you are looking to use Dragonite as a primary sweeper, it's likely something more like Jumpman's mono attacking set and EV spread could be better, but I didn't want to rebreed or EV something, so used what I had available.

    It's possible that I should focus on a second pokemon that can better absorb the danger moves that force me to switch Durant out before using Entrainment, but Dragonite does reasonably well at that, so sticking with him for now. Note that fake out users often have fighting moves, making a ghost somewhat appealing, but more thought is required before I shift the team.
  25. Pepdawg18

    Pepdawg18

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Battle Subway – 160 Win Streak
    Super Multi Train with another human partner

    Username: Pepdawg18 (Me)

    Brolitoed (Politoed) (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EV’s: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
    IV’s: 31, 31, 31, 30, 31, 31
    Nature: Timid
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Brozor (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EV's: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Spd
    IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
    Nature: Adamant
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Sword Dance


    Username: Spidey2064 (Teammate)

    Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EV's: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
    IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
    Nature: Modest
    - Surf
    - Grass Knot
    - Fake Out
    - Ice Beam

    Kingdra (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EV's: 4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
    IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
    Nature: Adamant
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rain Dance


    After seeing how much success other teams were having with rain, my friend and I decided to give it a try, and with amazing results! Once the rain train got rolling, there was really no stopping it. Our unfortunate demise was to a wifi disconnect...

    It's a pretty standard setup, but if you guys have any questions then feel free to ask. We had a previous attempt with a sand team that ended at 93 wins but we decided to switch up the weather and are very happy with how it worked out. Some of the more threatening teams have Wide Guard and Trick Room users. Opposing Gyarados and Ferrothorn where among the most troublesome pokemon to face.


    Some photos of the victory below.


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