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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I used a team with lead Thundurus and Darmanitan, but I didn't have appropriate stuff as backup and it ultimately faltered. This leaves me hopeful to maybe pursue that team again after I'm tired of my current Doubles team.
  2. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    ive been going strong with this wifi battle subway team. currently it has made its way to rank 9 and i also intend to take on the super singles train with it.


    Thundurus (M) @ Electric Gem
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Hammer Arm
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multi Scale
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch

    Cloyster (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shell Blade
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Shell Smash

    EDIT: comfortably hit 100 wins through super singles, looking to extend after i play around with thundurus' moveset.
  3. Pavi

    Pavi

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Hi guys, first time i post here ! So i was just trying to get the trophy from Super Singles, and finally got a nice streak (97), but i know i can get even higher !

    Proof :
    http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8719/battlesubway97.jpg

    For the pokemons, i was inspired by shipship's pokemon and Team Rocket Elite's ferrothorn, so thanks to them. Here's the team :

    Machamp (Phinks)@ Lum Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 102 HP, 252 Atk, 156 Speed
    - DynamicPunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Bullet Punch

    Garchomp (Feitan)@ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang
    -Swords Dance

    Ferrothorn (Goro 56) @ Leftovers
    Nature: Sassy
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 254 HP, 80 Def, 176 SpDef
    -Curse
    -Leech Seed
    -Substitute
    -Gyro Ball

    I like very much this team, as it can manage very well the weather teams. Machamp can OHKO almost every hail teams, garchomp is very good under the sandstorm and the sun and Ferro is just a monster with trick room, as the CPU tend to reverse trick room if you have a pokemon slower than his pokemon. I think Ferro is just too great on the subway, it can manage very well Destiny bond pokemons with leech seed, trick scarf pokemons and legendary pokemons with high speed with gyroball, and covers most of the weaknesses of my the other pokemons.

    Ciao

    PS : sorry for the bad english, I'm french so please understand ^^
  4. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I just lost on my streak. I went out at 193. Proof is right here:

    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u66/Crimson_07_2007/IMG00292-20110529-2218.jpg

    Here is my team:

    [​IMG]@ Shell Bell
    Adamant
    Intimidate
    156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
    -Waterfall
    -Dragon dance
    -Bounce
    -Taunt

    My lead and what a fantastic lead it was. He shuts down a bunch. Trick Room leads are no problem because I can taunt them then proceed from there. Taunt also shuts down lead Curses and stuff with no attacks so he can set up freely. Waterfall and Bounce give perfect coverage against everything except Empoleon who is really a non-factor for my team. After 2 DDs, Gyarados can outspeed everything which is helpful for Scarf leads that may wait in the wings.

    [​IMG](Zetsuei) @ Leftovers
    Careful
    Iron Barbs
    252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp. Def
    -Gyro Ball
    -Curse
    -Leech Seed
    -Substitute

    TRE's Ferrothorn is so amazing. Its synergizes with Gyarados so well it's like Peanut Butter and Jelly. Gyarados' Intimidate gives Ferrothorn a psuedo +1 Def which covers for the fact I'm Careful with 252. I wish he was Sassy, but Careful has been fine. They cover each other's weaknesses so well that I often PP stalled Stone Edge between switching in and out to let Gyarados sweep on his own without fear from my opponent's Rock slinger. Ferrothorn is the reason Gyarados has Shell Bell. Ferro NEEDS Leftovers for survival and Shell Bell is perfectly fine on Gyarados.

    [​IMG] (Cronus) @ Focus Sash
    Jolly
    Sand Veil
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Fang
    -Swords Dance

    This guy here was my 'buffer zone' between Ferrothorn and Gyarados. His main objective was to come in on Electric leads that threatened Gyarados with their STAB Electric attacks. Ferrothorn wasn't always suitable because some Electric types carry Fire moves, which is annoying. I went with Focus Sash over other things because the guaranteed survival is a great relief for an emergency situation when they come up. The moveset is self explanatory. I only ever SD Up when a) Gyarados is still around b) they can't threaten me with status c) I'm confident they don't have a priority user up their sleeves. Garchomp sometimes played cleanup after Gyarados bit the dust. He played his role well.

    How the team lost:

    Up against Ace Trainer Mooi. She led with Cryogonal. I wasn't sure what it would do, but I know it can Sheer Cold, so I attacked with Gyarados knowing it can't survive any physical hit what so ever. It lived with Sash while it set up Hail. I know Gyarados can survive Blizzard, but this one was special. It criticaled me without remorse and Gyarados was down. I brought in Garchomp to Fire Fang it and it was faster and Blizzard left me with 1 HP and went down from Hail. I was hoping she would have something Ferrothorn could set up on, she brings in Abomasnow. The Focus Blast + Blizzard one. 0 Curse Ferrothorn didn't stand a chance without misses, which it didn't. GG.

    Overall, I love this team. The only thing I would change would be to find an Ice resist. That's the only thing that gives this team trouble, strong Ice moves since neither Gyara nor Ferro resists and Garchomp bites the dust against them. Any suggestions?

    Guess it's back to Doubles for now. I'll post up then when I have a sufficient streak.
  5. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Nice streak & team Crimson but:
    I'm sure you've worked this out for yourself, but bringing in Garchomp was a mistake, Chomp's 102 base speed vs Cryogonal's 105 w/ 4x SE move is risky at best. In fact, Cryogonal isn't doing that much against a specially defensive Ferrothorn. With that match up, you could either try stalling out the hail with leech seed/ sub and get some boosts with curse or just gyro straight off. Garchomp beats Abomasnow 1v1 with fire fang easily. True, Garchomp is weak against ice- teams, but it's a complex weakness in that most ice pokemon aren't bulky enough to survive a +2 fire fang (or even a neutral fire fang). In this situation, you should have prioritised Garchomp over Ferrothorn, unless you are in an easy position to set up with Ferrothorn. It seems a little counter-intuitive to keep a Dragon/ground pokemon alive against an ice trainer, but it's better to have a fast 3 attack Garchomp and a chance of winning compared to Ferrothorn designed for a slow set up. The critical hit was unfortunate, but you have to be able to try and recover situations like that. It's experience that counts perhaps, but that's what separates the long streaks from the amazing streaks.

    So, it was only a small mistake that cost you (plus the crit of couse). I like the team, I don't think it necessarily needs much altering on first glance. A good team is only half the ingredients, the other half is being able to understand and properly execute your strategy. Perhaps it's more than 50/50 but nevertheless, good going.
    I love Cloyster, its naturally high Sp. Def will work wonderfully with Shell Smash, shame it doesn't learn Waterfall though.
    Dragonite is straightforwardly awesome.

    I want to ask about Thundurus - what's it's nature? I presume Timid's a typo if you're using Hammer arm for coverage. Brick break is an option, considering the speed drop really hurts. But timid + focus blast could work (although 70 acc is "meh" at best, and you don't want to use a wide lens just to cover a move.) Hp ice is odd, considering that Cloyster smashes anything ice- weak. I think I'd go with Dark pulse or even nasty plot. Electic/ ice is good for coverage but the subway equilibrates everything without regard for synergy, and then goes for SE match ups (this means you will rarely be hitting SE with hp ice). And even when you do, thunderbolt hits just as hard with the gem boost. Considering the rather abysmal move pool, I'd be tempted by going physical with jolly and then go wild charge/ fly (lol no joke)/ crunch/ hammer arm/ u-turn/ fling. You'd have 3 physical attackers but special Thundurus is lacking. A pseudo mixed set could work, which is probably what you're brainstorming anyway. Problem is that compromising 115/125/111 is difficult, especially against the huge range of opponents, and especially when Thundurus' move pool leaves a few things to be desired as a solid lead.

    Furthermore - the rock weakness (triple) is going to play a vital role. Guaranteed you'll face sooo many rock- trainers (AI). It could work in your favour if you can solidly do away with them, leading to free wins. Just be aware that the AI does love to exploit anything it "sees" as a "weakness". But this can work for or against you.
  6. Hoe4Show

    Hoe4Show

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    So for i'm trying out a new team and so far i have
    Gyarados
    Intimidate
    Jolly
    156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
    -Waterfall
    -Dragon dance
    -Bounce
    -Taunt
    Garchomp
    Adamant
    Sand Veil
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -earthquake
    -Crunch
    -Outrage
    -Swords Dance

    and i'm not sure for the third slot, I want a reliable bulky third guy and i was thinking maybe gastrodon, or evolite porygon 2 but i'm not sure. Also, should i switch crunch for fire fang on garchomp?
  7. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Yeah, I should've went to Ferrothorn. I was thinking Garchomp was faster for whatever reason. Cryogonal's Blizzard wouldn't have done half to Ferrothorn so I could've survived and taken it out with Gyro Ball and go from there. It had 3 Blizzards left, so I probably would've went ahead and Gyro Ball since Hail was up. If Abomasnow came in after that, I would Gyro Ball it hoping for the best and save Garchomp. After Garchomp presumably finishes off Aboma, I'd have to hope it wasn't something that could OHKO Garchomp, i.e. another ice type.

    But yeah, going Ferrothorn first would've put me in a better position to win.

    Right now I'm fiddling with Heatran over Garchomp. It makes dealing with Electric types less secure, and it makes fighting heavy Fighting teams more worrisome, but it does make Ice teams 10x easier to deal with. So we'll see what happens with it.
  8. Wue

    Wue

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    I'm going to try a different team for doubles for fun. Main word being 'fun'. It's just something I built that I'm pretty confident no else has yet. If you want to bash it just PM me. Otherwise, some help putting this team together would be nice.


    Snorlax @ Normal Gem/Focus Sash
    ?????? nature
    Thick Fat
    252 HP / ??? on the rest
    -Self-destruct
    -Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -?????

    Should be straightforward. Main purpose is to Self-destruct right away. EQ and Crunch offer good coverage on anything that can take Self-Destruct. Partner can take care of the rest if need be. Max HP to have a better chance of getting Self-Destruct off but I don't know about the rest. I don't really know what to put in the last slot. Can't decide between Normal Gem or Focus Sash. Can't find a decent calculator so if someone can point me to one or something that would be great.


    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Timid
    Levitate
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    -Shadow Ball
    -HP Ice
    -Giga Drain/Thunderbolt
    -Focus Blast/Psychic

    Perfect partner for Snorlax. Immune to both EQ and Self-Destruct. Shadow Ball helps get rid of ghosts + it's STAB. Giga Drain and HP Ice for the very useful x4 that I frequently face in Subway. Might replace Giga Drain with Thunderbolt. Don't know if I should keep Focus Blast for normals/darks/steels or Psychic to get rid of fighting types that could put my Snorlax in danger. Depends what Snorlax runs.


    Accelgor @ Bug Gem
    Modest
    Unburden
    252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    -Bug Buzz
    -Final Gambit
    -Giga Drain
    -HP coverage? / ????

    With 364 HP it has 185th highest HP. I don't know how many of those 185 show up in Subway (haven't check yet) but it should definitely be able to KO a good amount. Bug Gem STAB'd Bug Buzz to kill psychics/darks (or dent most Pokemon for that matter) that could potentially kill Gengar, Giga Drain for bulky waters. I don't know any other item that would fit this set. Don't know what to put for HP coverage. Ghost's will pose problems for this set. Unburden to outspeed pretty much everything and his other 2 abilities aren't useful on this set anyways.


    Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly
    Reckless
    252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    -Brave Bird
    -Final Gambit
    -Close Combat
    -?????

    Another Final Gambit user. With Choice Scarf it can pretty much outspeed everything. A reckless STAB'd Brave Bird helps kill off fighting types that could kill my Snorlax and Ghosts that are immune to Final Gambit and Close Combat for dark/normal/steel types that pose problems for Gengar or pretty much hit anything that doesn't resist it really hard. It's HP is ranked at 140 and as with before this is including Pokemon that don't show up in the subway. Don't really know what to put in the last slot.


    Again, I didn't run calculators for these so I'm not too sure of it's effectiveness. I can already see tons of weaknesses for this team (Trick Room, Hail/Sandstorm, entry hazards, priority, Focus Sash/Sturdy/Endure, Detect/Protect). Should be fun to try though.
  9. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    @Wue: Suggestions:
    1) Since this is a straight out attacking Snorlax, having a +Attack (Adamant or Brave) nature is probably a good idea. It also does not need 252 HP. In fact, it probably doesn't even need any HP given its naturally high HP. It will survive a lot more with 252 Def instead, or at least a lot of Defense since its HP and SpDef are naturally high already.

    2) Last Slot for Snorlax: Return or Double Edge, Protect, or Rock slide. All options should probably be self-explanatory. (Double Edge for highest STAB move that doesn't kill yourself. Double Edge+Self Destruct may or may not be accessible to you though. Return is a nice no recoil alternative. Protect for when you're low on health and AI will likely double target Snorlax instead of its partner. Rockslide for multi-target hitting levitating/flying opponents).

    3) I currently use this calculator for Gen V: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html

    It is sometimes down though.

    4) Focus Sash + Destiny Bond on Gengar is probably getting you further (and for me it's also more "fun" destiny bond-ing full health things to death). Snorlax can use Normal Gem, or Chople or Silk Scarf (if you're using Return/Double Edge as last slot) or Life Orb. Also, Gengar doesn't get Giga Drain. Even if it does, Energy Ball for 5 extra base power is probably better. Giga Drain doesn't help Gengar survive much of anything.




    As for myself, I've just been kind of trying different set up sweepers for Single Subway...

    Bulk Up Scrafty (Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Crunch / Sub) ... just not bulky enough. I guess I could give Bulk Up / Amnesia / Crunch / Sub a try. Almost totally outclassed by Registeel though other than having more speed and Shed Skin. With Drain Punch + Crunch STAB, coverage is pretty good and most things are OHKO'd after set up. I thought about giving a bit more speed and then have ankle sweep + crunch instead. Never tried that yet. Not sure if I will.

    Careful 252 HP 252 Sp Def Coil Eelektross (Coil/Sub/Electric Move/Crunch ... tried Spark and Wild Charge)... ... I figure it wouldn't be specially bulky enough, and yah, not quite there. After setting up, it's fairlyl unstoppable by physical attacks given its ... no weakness, but special attacks can still fairly break through.

    Careful Prankster Whimsicott (Double Team / Sub / Leech Seed / Attack Move) -> actually works really well. At first I had Return as last move which did basically nothing, but at least provided some way of attacking grass types, but I figured I might as well not even bother cuz that takes forever. I'm just using Flash as last move right now. If Whimsicott is fully set up (i.e. +6 Evasion) facing a grass type that it can't do anything to, Whimsicott can fairly easily Flash opponent 6 times for another team mate to set up.

    No good streak to show for any of this though.

    I'm thinking of maybe trying a Jolly Hone Claws Hustle Durant, but... ... I doubt that will turn out very well given its frailty.

    EDIT: Testing Jolly Hustle Durant @ Razor Fang with Hone Claws / Iron Head / Rock Slide / Sub ... Pretty strong as Hustle stacks with Hone Claws.
  10. Wue

    Wue

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    ^ Hey thanks for the help. You reminded me of an important question I needed to ask. And yea, the calcs down right now.

    *Gengar gets Giga Drain from Gen IV. I see your point with Energy Ball however.


    When using Final Gambit your own Pokemon dies first. Assuming the other person has one Pokemon left and you do too, who wins? I read about this somewhere but forgot. That's why I didn't run a Destiny Bond Gengar; I wanted someone to be alive at the end. An ideal match would be the other 3 suiciding 1 by 1 and have Gengar as the last standing. He's fast, immune to Self Destruct, and strong enough to pick off stragglers.


    As for your team, just from my experience Eelektross is really bad. It can hit moderately hard but as far as taking hits it wont last that long.
  11. fabsmg68

    fabsmg68

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    i don't know in black/white, but, about the gengar with giga-drain, i was wondering if, coupling such a gengar with focus sash, and supposing that gengar was hit and survived a previous hit, will focus sash activate if gengar recovers full-hp with a giga drain (supposing that the sash wasn't consumed in the previuos turn ?) and then gest a OHKO attack ?
  12. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Wue, the system has changed to accommodate ties (i.e. self destruct, destiny bond, LO damage, other recoil damage), so that's no longer an issue. Chinese Dood is absolutely right about destiny bond for gengar, and about energy ball.

    Snorlax's nature should definitely be adamant, and I'd recommend maxing attack along with def. EVs (as Chinese dood said). Last move should be return/ rock slide/ brick break. I'd run brick break for the dark- and steel- types that pseudo-wall the Gengar/ snorlax combo. I'd also run with silk scarf or leftovers. Probably leftovers, because it's Snorlax.

    I don't really like Accelgor personally, but again Energy ball is better than Giga drain. Final gambit probably necessitates endure (egg move), and sludge bomb may be an option. I'd be tempted by me first. But Accelgor isn't good enough for the role you're trying to assign (which is a fast, bulky, special attacker) I think I'd choose Latias (bad synergy admittedly)/ something else.

    Staraptor doesn't need jolly, 252 and a choice scarf. I really dislike the choice scarf too, it's too limiting. What happens if you need to clutch the situation ? Would you lock yourself into final gambit? eh, doesn't really work. I'd run flying gem or life orb. Retaliate could have some potential.

    Overall, I like the first two, but the last two doesn't seem to work. They are both weak to rock, which is a concern considering that currently they both lack ridiculous power or great bulk. A vital part of a doubles team is something that can come in and clean everything else up. I like the creativity but I'd suggest making staraptor run jolly 252 spd./ 252 att. focus sash with endeavor/ brave bird/ close combat/ retaliate. Then swap out Accelgor for something similar to Latias, but obviously not Latias as a double ice- and double dark- ghost- weakness is asking for trouble. E.g. Haxorus w/ choice scarf'ed outrage or even Scizor (nice synergy with thick fat) with choice band'ed bullet punch/ superpower, etc. Accelgor really does lack both offensively and defensively. True, speed is more important in doubles, but so is bulk.

    focus sash is one use only, which is another reason to forget giga-drain. Giga drain is useless; it's a pathetic compromise between attack and recovery. It doesn't work well for either; the base attack is too weak (and it's grass- bad coverage) and the recovery depends on damage, so very often you're not going to recover more than 1/4 hp. In which case it's better to either smash the opponent or just use a recovery move. Giga drain is also very inconsistent in this sense.

    That's a strange durant set up, I think I'd go with X scissor over iron head, and 58/48 special defensively is going to hurt a little. I'd normally cut the line at 70 average just because of things like Garchomp 4

    Outside of using a weird trick room set up, the new set-ups are overall quite disappointing. Cofagrigus w/ calm mind may work, Haxorus w/ DD will work, I want to try mixed Hyrdreigon, I also want to try Darmanitan w/ belly drum but I think it's too inconsistent unfortunately. On the note of inconsistent, I badly want to try that out on smeagle. But smeagle breeding is so ugh. Perhaps there are some new buffs for older pokes I've missed. (Sheer force OR study 252 sp. def Steelix with autotomise/ curse/ eq/ rock slide is tempting)

    Also, game freak need to release Keldeo officially so I can use CM/ sub/ surf/ secret sword off 108 base speed. And Keldeo/ TTar is sexy.
  13. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Iron Head has slightly better neutral coverage than X-Scissor I think.

    Iron Head:
    - Resisted by: Water, Fire, Electric, Steel

    X-Scissor:
    - Resisted by: Fire, Steel, Flying, Poison, Fighting, Ghost

    ... Didn't bother counting how many pokemon actually resist each move. I didn't really give much thought to it. :P If anything though, I might be replacing Rockslide. PRETTY much I was using it because the accuracy issue made it not too fun to use and Hone Claws remedies that. That, and the fact that Iron Head and Rockslide both have 30% flinch rate.

    Oh, I just realized Durant can learn Stone Edge (shows how much thought I put into that moveset hehe). I should probably try using that just because it's the worst move ever and Hone Claws can laugh at it.

    EDIT: O yeah, about Eelektross, it did "ok" as a coil physical sweeper, but it's no Snorlax or even Suicune when it comes to "being defensively EV'd on one spectrum and then having a move to boost the other defense while boosting attacking power". I mean, 252HP 252 Sp Def Curselax is extremely bulky on the special side, requiring only one move in Curse to boost Def and Attack, while 252 HP 252 Def Bold Suicune is sufficiently bulky on the physical side, requiring only Calm Mind to boost Sp Def and SpA, but yah, Eelektross is nowhere near that level. That said, coil is at least an interesting move. I just thought that with Eelektross's no-weakness, maxing out its special bulk on the 85/80/80 defenses might amount to something useable, and it wasn't unusable, but yah, just no where as reliable as Registeel/Snorlax/Suicune.

    But hey, just trying out different things. :P I guess the "most useable" thing I tried was Quiver Dance Volcarona. Once it's set up, it's pretty awesome (then again, quiver dance is quite an amazing move). Just hard to get it set up sometimes. I thought about using (probably Signal Beam mono-attack) Quiver Dance Tinted Lens Venomoth... never got around to it since I don't have any usable venomoths in Gen V or IV, but tinted lens might "potentially/hopefully" allow for mono-attack to be usable for Venomoth... maybe? (Quiver Dance / Sub / Signal Beam / Roost setting up on a special move might be ok? Btw, no Bug Buzz because of Sound-Proof pokemon.)

    EDIT Final final: ... Gonna take things slowly. Tried out Adamant Metagross @ Leftovers Hone Claws/Sub/Meteor Mash/Agility yesterday. Most neutral things are OHKO'd after +3. Most 2x resists are OHKO'd after +6 (even Ferrothorn is, other than the HP/Def one which is 2HKOd). Unfortunately all the 4x resists (Magnezone, Heatran, Empoleon, Lanturn) are somewhat bulky, and only (a bit more than) half of those are 2HKO'd half the time. So, just have to have a teammate that can take up on those potentially.
  14. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Your metagross loses to heatran #1,2,3 without a sub (modest fire STAB moves hurt even with 252hp evs). One has a focus sash, so even if you negated sub it would still be a problem.
    Magnezone, empoleon and laturn all aren't a problem (barring crits and/or paralyses, seeing as Magnezone is rolling a max ~70% (The modest one with electric gem).
    Aggron #345, #879 could both be problematic (but then it's a problem for absolutely everything set-up orientated.
    Rapidash #647 100% beats you without a sub
    All focus sash + counter pokemon (gengar, lucario) beat you without a sub
    Infernape #774 beats you without a sub
    Gliscor #849 wins without a sub
    Entei, Garchomp, TTar all win without a sub.

    "without a sub" so actually at +6/+6 you're fine. You're just screwed if you get two of these in succession. Even then, the AI has to pick the "right move", which I'd be dubious about.

    That's actually a pretty short list (Metagross is pretty good). Basically every set-up sweeper is stopped cold by TTar #903 and houndoom #481 (focus sash + roar or dragon tail), even at +6 evasion you're hoping for luck. The subway is full of annoyingly potent disruptors.

    Apart from tinted lens, is there any real merit for venomoth over volcarona? Even at +6, the base stat difference is felt. Although volcarona does have to resort to the less reliable morning sun. A venomoth streak would be funny though.

    Yes, suicune and snorlax are both quite ridiculous. I'd be more open to trying steelix if it didn't have so many weaknesses (immunities count for nothing now the AI can switch -_-'). I was considering Latias/ Steelix because they complement each other so well. Problem is that it's not as straightforward as direct synergy. A lot of things that give a +6/+6 latias trouble also stamp all over steelix, and vice versa. Speed is still by far the most important stat in pokemon, and 110 base isn't enough. 178 with timid is outsped by over 100 pokemon, which is enough to easily put me off. Also, almost every opponent set tries to run as diverse a movepool as possible, which means good synergy doesn't win you games, but bad synergy can lose you them.

    The main problem with using "cooler" and "different" pokemon as opposed to the more obvious choices is that you need to have the ability to win in a crisis situation (which was what my Ninjask/ Smeagle/ Lucario team couldn't do). If you have TTar/ garchomp/ latios/ suicune/ volracona/ etc then even at 1v3 or 1v2 (when the set-up sweeper is dead) you have a reasonable chance at getting through.
    Depends what you want I guess, to be top or to be innovative. But then, to be at the top requires innovation so it's probably better to aim for that.
  15. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Actually I'm assuming I have Stealth Rock up (yes, I'm still running stealth rock on my Mesprit / Uxie ... currently Mesprit), in which case none of the sashed or sturdy pokemon are a problem assuming Stealth Rock is up, and actually I forgot to factor in stealth rock damage for those 4x resists (I think all Heatran are almost guaranteed 2HKO factoring in Stealth Rock?). But yah, quite a few things still beat Metagross.

    I was using Mesprit / Metagross / Suicune (Suicune takes care of nearly everything that Metagross can't), but every time lost because Metagross or Suicune wasn't able to fully set up. Never lost when fully set up so far.

    Also, Dragon Tail is NOT exactly same as roar. Under a sub, Dragon Tail only deals damage.

    Apart from Tinted Lens, the main problem with Volcarona is that Bug Buzz is a sound move, which means it is potentially totally walled by Sound Proof pokemon (Venomoth can Signal Beam for 75 base power, whereas Volcarona can just use Silver Wind, which doesn't have enough PP for things like Pressure Moltres, and of course the base power is too low). That's why my Volcarona just runs Flamethrower + HP Rock, with no recovery move.

    Yeah, 110 base speed is sometimes not fast enough anymore. Things just need to be extremely bulky like Registeel / Suicune / Snorlax or have a speed boosting move to be more reliable it seems.

    A while ago I was thinking about using a defensive calm mind Cobalion (91/129 Defense is impressive enough I figured)... something like Calm Mind / Sub / Flash Cannon / HP Fighting... never got around to catching such Cobalion... I dunno. I imagine it'd do well enough, but 72 Sp Def might still be a bit troublesome.

    All that said, I'm thinking I might just take a break from Single and have some fun in Double.
  16. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Regarding Crimson's quality Gyarados, Ferrothorn, Garchomp team:

    After seeing your success, Crimson, I am trying to use life orb Scizor in place of Ferrothorn, as it provides the ice resist you are looking for and covers the weaknesses of Garchomp and Gyarados pretty well. Unfortunate that it lacks Ferrothorn's electric resistance, but I'm not too worried about that thanks to Chomp's immunity.

    I'm torn between using a swords dance Garchomp or going with my old standby choice band. So many things seem to go wrong when I try to set up a chomp, and even though being locked into Outrage can be dangerous, choice band Garchomp just OHKOs so many things. But the big advantage of dance Chomp is that I can run that focus sash, letting me (usually) get one hit off even on faster threatening pokemon, hopefully at least putting them in Scizor's priority revenge kill range even if Chomp doesn't OHKO.

    Also, I am interested in understanding your 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe EV spread for your Gyarados. Since I am breeding mine, and won't have perfect IV's, understanding where I can afford to fudge, and whether I can get away with a boilerplate max attack and speed alternative, will be very helpful. For the speed, for example, you note that Gyarados outruns everything after two boosts, and I see that it outpaces threatening electric pokes Zebstrika 2,3, and 4 after 1 boost. But there are some other relevant pokes you could outrun after zero or one boost with max speed, so I would love to hear your logic on how the gains in Defense and HP make up for less than max speed (and attack, for that matter).

    Great team!
  17. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I honestly didn't think of Scizor, even though I have two in my Box waiting. I'm using Heatran for giggles and it's been alright. Made it to 112 or so before losing because of a critical hit. I should give Scizor a try next time the team loses. Though, Ferrothorn's presence would be missed. Tanking Grass and Water types is what he does.

    With the Bulky spread, Gyarados is guaranteed to survive non-STAB Electric Attacks and KO back. For example:

    741 | Blaziken | Hardy | Shuca Berry | Flame Charge | Flare Blitz | ThunderPunch | Low Kick | Atk/Spd

    I am guaranteed to survive his Thunderpunch, set up DD, and OHKO with Waterfall. That leaves Gyarados alive to damage or Taunt the next Pokemon that comes out for Garchomp or Ferrothorn. It's particularly helpful to fast Taunt something before fainting then giving Ferrothorn 2 turns to setup shop.

    The bulk helps for Tanking hits. Since Gyarados will be Taunting on the first turn more times than not, having the extra bulk helps to setup DD after the initial Taunt. It also helps while I'm PP stalling Blizzards with Bounce for Ferrothorn. This helps because strong Blizzards will beat the team and because Ferrothorn can't take 5 Blizzards hits on his own (since they like to hit with Blizzard a lot)

    Regarding Zebstrika. Even though it ties after 1 DD, I never keep Gyarados in on him because +1 Waterfall is not a guaranteed KO. +1 Waterfall from full out offensive Gyarados will KO however. I just like the security in having the extra bulk.

    With Scizor over Ferrothorn, it probably won't be as easy to predict Fighting types that I enjoy Intimi-stalling. With Gyarathorn, you always know they will use a Rock attack on Gyara and their Fighting attack on Ferrothorn. I don't know the computer's tendency to attack Scizor with Fighting moves. Also, Trick Metagross becomes more of a pain to deal with. I usually Taunt the Trick and go straight to Ferrothorn to setup. Scizor doesn't have that luxury.

    As for Garchomp, I considered Choice Band, but then went to Sash for the flexibility. It helps against those Air Balloon Electric types you can't EQ from the start. I rarely did SD, just in those instances I mentioned. The rest of the time it was clean up killing and denting stuff with Outrage for when I was forced to use it.

    I hope this helps, and thanks for the compliment. If you have any more questions, just ask.
  18. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    cheers for updating list for me :)

    currently streaking with a new team due to got bored lol. prob be back here in few days asking for abit advice lol.

    whens this going to get sticky'd?

    great streaks everyone, keep it up!!
  19. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Bleh, just lost another Single Streak at 72 with this team:

    Metagross / Clear Body / Impish @ Choice Scarf
    IVs: 31 / ? / 31 / ? / 31 / 31 (I think?)
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Speed 4 Sp Def (I think)
    - Trick / Stealth Rock / Flash / Scary Face

    Gyarados / Intimidate / Impish @ Leftovers
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Speed
    - Sub / DD / Waterfall / Earthquake

    Latias / Levitate / Timid @ Lum Berry
    IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 4 HP 252 SpA 252 Speed
    - Sub / CM / Dragon Pulse / Rest

    Notes:
    - Gyarados + Metagross works pretty well together.
    - I only trick about 50% of the time with this team. Usually for Physical attackers without Earthquake I just open with Flash and then alternate between Gyarados and Metagross for Intimidate. I always trick for DDers though... just cuz I don't have any better way to deal with them. I Trick, and then Stealth Rock (hoping they didn't switch yet, so the switch in will take some damage), and then just keep flashing until it switches, usually within one or two turns. So the switch in will come in with stealth rock damage and -1 accuracy. If opponent has more than one DDer, then it becomes a bit tough, but yah, I try to get Metagross to Flash and Scary Face things down to a manageable state.
    - I try to set up Gyarados whenever possible, since speed is important (and base 110 isn't fast enough sometimes).
    - Metagross also works well with Latias, because as I mentioned a few pages ago, trick locking into earthquake means Latias gets to fully set up because AI for whatever reason does not see that Latias takes no damage (not so for Gyarados). Obviously Latias also sets up on electric moves, though it doesn't happen very often, because usually electric types are flashed instead of tricked due to high possibility of twave
    - Rock moves are usually not an issue for Gyarados, because I just switch between Metagross and Gyarados, and stone edge PP is gone pretty fast, and rockslides don't break Gyarados's sub after a few intimidates.

    Lost:
    - when I opted to Flash instead of Trick this:
    861 | Starmie | Timid | King's Rock | Surf | Psychic | Thunderbolt | Ice Beam | Spd/SpA
    Ice Beam crits Latias (she survived the crit but Starmie's faster), and TBolt easily rids Gyarados. 2 Flashes didn't do anything, but heh, that's what I get for relying for Flash too much.

    ... Hm... looking at the pokemon list now. I should have just switched to Latias to check what moveset it is. If it's anything other than the Reflect Type Starmie, I can just switch back to Metagross to trick, and if it is the Reflect Type Starmie, I can just switch back to Metagross to Stealth Rock and then set up with either Gyarados (after flashing) or Latias (without any flashes needed), and the only way I would have lost would be if Metagross freezes on the ice beam. O well.

    Not sure what I'm going to do next now, hehe. I said I was going to Double but still haven't yet.

    EDIT: O yeah I used this team for speeding through 1-28:
    Jolteon / Volt Absorb / Modest @ Choice Specs
    - Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / HP Ice 70 / Shadow Ball

    Gyarados / Intimidate / Impish @ Leftovers
    - Sub / DD / Waterfall / Earthquake (i.e. same as the one above)

    Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Life Orb
    - Grass Knot / Dragon Pulse / Psychic / Surf

    Notes:
    - BASICALLY it's the same team as the trick team, without trick, but with more attacking power and a lot less setting up. Obviously everyone knows about the synergy between Gyarados and Jolteon. Choice Specs Volt Switch for things that Jolteon can't KO still does massive damage to most things, which is pretty awesome (I tried Timid Volt Switch Zapdos for another team... but Jolteon's just better with its ground weak and higher speed outspeeding those base 110s and 111s). Latios *had* Tbolt instead of Grass Knot, but I found that being able to KO those ground/water types easily is way better. This team has trouble vs Ferrothorn though. I had taunt > sub on Gyarados for a while to deal with that, but heh, for the trick Metagross team, Gyarados wants sub for more safety.
  20. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Alas, I fear that like Victini and most event pokes, even the non-uber ones, Keldeo is probably banned from the subway. Bulbapedia certainly lists it as banned, though I am not sure if that is authoritative, and given that it does not show up in any AI trainer teams, I'd be surprised if it turns out to be allowed.

    EDIT: I guess the AI teams not using them is not a certain ban in the subway, as Azelf/Uxie/Mesprit don't show up on any AI teams but are legal to use. Still, I doubt Keldeo will be legal.
  21. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    337
    All event Pokemon are banned because not everyone can access them. For example, if someone got a high ranking in Battle Subway Wi-Fi with any event Pokemon, people might complain that the event Pokemon led to the high ranking and that it was "unfair" (even if it was Phione).
  22. Avulse

    Avulse

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    Taylor - Wouldn't a Hasty or Naive nature work better? For Thundurus, I mean.
  23. snapémon

    snapémon

    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Finally got a super single 77 Streak!

    This is for super single line on battle subway. I've been on the battle subway for a few months now, tried various teams but nothing really compares to this one. I think it's due to the sheer power of these three coupled with their few weaknesses.
    I might have another go but at the moment i'm creating a full team for online battles. so send me your friend code if you want to battle.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Pokémon: Garchomp
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Adamant
    Held item: Lum berry

    Evs: (hp/atk/def/spa/spd/spe)
    0/252/0/0/4/252

    Attacks:
    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Sandstorm

    Garchomp leads usually with outrage or earth quake. if i get a chance to use dragon dance then he's pretty much sorted for the rest of the match. if an ice or faster dragon pokémon switch in, i switch to registeel. i usually use him second anyway. this is a pretty standard garchomp so you know how it goes.

    [​IMG]
    Pokémon: Registeel
    Ability: Clear body
    Nature: Careful
    Held item: Leftovers

    Evs: (hp/atk/def/spa/spd/spe)
    124/128/128/0/128/0

    Attacks:
    Thunder Wave
    Curse
    Iron Head
    Earthquake

    Start with thunderwave or unless i think i can kill it quickly like a ice or non-ground rock pokemon just use curse and ironhead. If its a fire, or water pokemon ill switch to suicune (presuming garchomp is ko'ed). So basically a few curses then iron head or earthquake.

    [​IMG]
    Pokémon: Suicune
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: bold
    Held item: Chesto berry

    Evs: (hp/atk/def/spa/spd/spe)
    44/0/212/116/136/0

    Attacks:
    Calm mind
    Scald
    Shadow ball
    Rest

    Suicune is good for clearing up once all the high attack pokemon are out the way. Get a couple calm minds in, rest when needed. then scald or shadow ball. i did use ice beam but i use suicune against water types so shadow ball was a better option. scald is also good for the burn.

    Sorry if there's any typos, i have a black eye and broken finger from playing too much pokémon.

    EDIT: i forgot to put in the last battle. i wrote it while i was playing so its very abbreviated. i would re-write it but a broken finger makes it very hard to type. I think tornadus used hurricane first but i wasnt watching.

    cpu: tornadus hurricane?
    me: g outrage
    t fainted
    sent out articuno
    g outrage
    art fly
    g outrage misses confuses lum erry
    art fly
    g faints

    sent out registeel
    art fly
    regi iron head misses
    art fly
    regi thunder wave
    regi iron head
    art faints

    cpu: sent out gliscor, glis earthquake
    me: regi curse
    glis earthquake
    regi curse
    glis earthquake
    regi iron head
    glis earthquake
    regi faints

    me: sent out suicoon
    glis earthquake
    sui scald
    glis faints
  24. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Messages:
    2,120
    um garchomp doesnt learn dragon dance
  25. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    (Looks like I'm still playing Single...) Currently at 84 with this team:

    Uxie @ Scarf - Trick / Stealth Rock / Twave / Memento
    Snorlax @ Leftovers - Sub / Curse / Body Slam / Heavy Slam
    Suicune @ Lum - Sub / CM / Surf / Rest

    Something like a Trick Whimsicott/Mesprit/Latias with Charm might have been better with this team, but heh, working fine for now.

    I trick a lot more with this team (compared to my previous), since even if opponent switches, having twave and then memento on the in-coming pokemon means Suicune or Snorlax can usually set up anyway. "Good" thing is that they don't always switch right away. So, usually after tricking a non-damaging move, I Stealth Rock first, and then keep spamming Twave until opponent finally decides to switch. So switch in will be twaved and then memento most of the time. Obviously that doesn't apply to electric immunes.

    If it's a DDer coming in, then Snorlax can deal ok with it with curse. If it's a CMer, then Suicune can CM faster (due to opponent starting off at -2, and paralyzed). If it's SDer, then, I usually set up with Suicune, or try to until it's getting dangerous. NPer = set up with Snorlax, but probably not fully set up. So far only had close calls in earlier streaks because of unfamiliarity with how many hits Snorlax's sub can take before it breaks.

    Hope I get at least over 100 with this one...

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