1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    [​IMG]

    Didn't get as far as I wanted to go but I still managed what I believe is the second best Trick Room streak on the leaderboard thus far. I tried a couple of Trick Room teams before settling on this one, which outperfomed its predecessors by a lot. Using a solid Ghost/Fighting/Dark/Psychic core turned out to be a very good idea. I'm actually a little surprised more people haven't used something similar (or even Trick Room teams in general) for the Subway. I seemed to get reasonably far even though I used very generic EV spreads and mostly standard-ish moves.

    ............................[​IMG]........................................................................[​IMG].......................
    @ Lum Berry / Relaxed / 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef..................@ Toxic Orb / Brave / 252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SDef
    Trick Room / Seismic Toss / Shadow Punch / Thunderpunch.............Fake Out / Close Combat / Facade / Faint Attack

    Pretty straightforward leads. Fake Out + Trick Room is what I use on turn 1 99% of the time. If I feel like Hariyama will be targeted with Psychic type attacks, I may swap out to Tyranitar if it gives me a more favorable matchup on turn 2. If I'm going up against Trick Room, I might attack with both Pokemon instead of bothering with Trick Room.

    Once I get my Trick Room set, it's just a matter of nuking a Pokemon with Hariyama's Guts-boosted attacks while Dusknoir weakens and wears down the bulkier opponents to ensure I get a KO every turn. Lum is necessary to avoid turn 1 Freeze/Para hax preventing my setup of Trick Room and Toxic Orb is insurance against the various ability negating abilities in the Subway (wouldn't want to lose the Guts boost AND half my Attack). Seismic Toss + Shadow Punch complement one another well and a STAB 60 BP attack coming off 100 base Attack is pretty decent even without Attack EVs - especially since I usually use it against targets weak to Ghost. Thunderpunch is mostly filler but will outdamage Seismic Toss when used on high HP Water types like Wailord and Vaporeon. Facade is excellent against all Fighting resists and can KO weaker opponents when I don't want to deal with the stat drops from Close Combat. Faint Attack is necessary for the Ghost types and the occasional Double Team spam.

    Reason I chose Dusknoir over Dusclops is the ability to use Lum for some hax-proofing. The higher Attack also gives me more attacking options. I'd like to look into using Cofagrigus as an alternate since Intimidate leads hamper my damage output. Hariyama was chosen for its raw power and ability to support Trick Room setup with Fake Out.

    ..............................[​IMG]..................................................................[​IMG].......................
    @ Sitrus Berry / Brave / 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def..................@ Life Orb / Quiet / 172 HP / 32 Def / 248 SAtk / 52 SDef
    Crunch / Rock Slide / Fire Punch / Protect..................................Psychic / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Trick Room

    My backups are both immune/resistant to Psychic attacks that threaten Hariyama and pack quite a punch offensively. The moves pretty standard-fare and there isn't too much to explain. Reuniclus also serves as my backup Trick Room user and Protect can be helpful in the event I have to set up Trick Room a second time. I opted for Fire Punch to deal with Ferrothorn/Forretress/Durant since Reuniclus can typically take out Fighting types.

    I'm not a big fan of Chople Tyranitar since most Fighting attacks are coming from hard-hitting Fighting types who will probably KO Tyranitar despite the resist berry. I'd have used Focus Sash but since I like to use it as a switch-in, I didn't want to lose my item so easily on such occasions. Sitrus coupled with its reasonably good bulk helps Tyranitar survive quite a few turns as long as it avoids SE attacks. Life Orb + Magic Guard is soooooo good, especially with 125 base Special Attack behind it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The stuff I had issues or trouble with include:

    - opposing Trick Room teams or slow teams in general neutralized my Speed advantage. Sometimes I'd have to deal with Speed ties or make a judgment call on whether or not to use Trick Room

    - Spiritomb leads were annoying since Hariyama could only use a neutral Faint Attack against it and Dusknoir had to rely on weakening it with Shadow Punch. I usually tried to pick off Spiritomb's partner(s) until I could get Tyranitar in safely but the combination of WoW and Sucker Punch made it a scary foe.

    - Scrafty was also pretty threatening but luckily I didn't see too many of them. It can hit 3/4ths of my team SE and Hariyama was the only reliable way for me to kill it but Hariyama is a glass cannon that may or may not have fainted by the time Scrafty showed up.

    - Roughnecks are always scary since they can pretty much hax any team out of a streak with their OHKOs, Lax Incenses, Quick Claws, etc.

    - Protect/Detect Pokemon are also tricky, particularly when both opposing Pokemon carry the move. Since I rely on double targeting against stuff my Pokemon can't kill in one attack, there is always the risk of double targeting into a Protect/Detect. I could usually play around a single Pokemon with the move but it can be tough when both Pokemon can carry it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HOW I LOST

    Show Hide
    Basically, I lost due to misplaying the first two turns and getting screwed over by two flinches in two turns.

    I faced off against Scizor 4 and Bronzong 4. I Fake Out Scizor and set up Trick Room while Hariyama takes a Zen Headbutt in the face. In hindsight, I probably should have played a bit more conservatively here but I was concerned about the Scizor-Tyranitar matchup since Scizor 4 has an Occa Berry and Fire Punch would only do 55-65%.

    On turn 2, I knew Bronzong would reverse Trick Room but I forgot Scizor had Bullet Punch. That is, until Scizor used it to finish off Hariyama. My mistake was Seismic Tossing Bronzong instead of Scizor - I was thinking that Close Combat would kill Scizor and I wanted to start wearing down Bronzong. Instead of reversing Trick Room, Bronzong Zen Headbutts Dusknoir (probably was targeting Hariyama in case Bullet Punch didn't kill it).

    With Trick Room still active, I went with Reuniclus since Life Orb Focus Blast does more than Fire Punch against Occa Scizor. Thankfully, it hits but Scizor survives with a sliver of life after Focus Blast and Seismic Toss (this is where I curse myself for the previous turn's Seismic Toss). Scizor, of course, KO's Reuniclus with Bug Bite while Bronzong reverses Trick Room.

    The next two turns is where my fate was sealed. I attempt to set Trick Room back up while Protecting with Tyranitar. Scizor runs into my Protect only for Bronzong to flinch my Dusknoir with Zen Headbutt. I try the same two moves again. Protect fails but Scizor decides to target Dusknoir with Aerial Ace instead. Dusknoir survives. Bronzong Zen Headbutts Dusknoir. Dusknoir survives. Dusknoir flinches. :(

    Then Dusknoir dies to Bullet Punch on the following turn while Tyranitar Rock Slides Scizor to death and Bronzong takes laughable damage. Bronzong does something and Breloom steps in. (yeah)

    I somehow manage to kill Breloom with Tyranitar since its only Fighting Attack is Focus Punch. I also read Breloom's Protect perfectly and used the free turn to finish off Bronzong. Unfortunately, the last Pokemon that comes out is Focus Sash Durant. ;_;
  2. D34N

    D34N

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Going well Jokethe1 - still gen 4? I'm struggling to get a decent streak up at the moment (doing lots of experimenting isn't helping though). Most recently ended on 102 when I went back to the Starmie/Scizor/Garchomp team that I've done decently with in the past - opened with Starmie against a Pinsir so switched out to Scizor to absorb X-Scissor. Scizor Bullet Punches, but then is decapitated by Guillotine. Starmie cleans it up but Weavile comes out, and with my Weavile counter KOed I'm up against it. It KOs Starmie with Night Slash and then crits Garchomp with Ice Punch (Yache Berry means I would've survived a non-crit - maybe try Focus Sash? Would still be vulnerable to freezes but meh). Trainer's last Pokémon was a Dragonite who Starmie and Garchomp both OHKO.

    Could've probably won if I sacrificed Starmie to Pinsir (I do usually use it kamikaze-style, trying to deal as much damage as possible before dying and let the other two clean up) so I still have a ways to go as a player myself. I have a few different teams I'd like to try but most of them are vulnerable to some sort of bad luck - it seems Trick Choice Scarf is a popular way to avoid this?
  3. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124

    Yeah true xD I've made just 14 Battles in B/W Doubles (119 right now with the team of icu182). Yeah the Trick - teams are very successful (see Jumpman / Peterko / Bozothebear etc). But if you don't want to use a Trick team I would use Garchomp ( Second version - Peterkos 461 winstreak in B/W ) a Weavile with Sash and SwordDance and a Latios
  4. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,813
    ''Whoever created this thing needs to be fired''

    Battle #110 Vs. Roughneck Ganymed

    Ganymed sents out Wailord and Whiscash.
    I 1HKO the Wailord with Acrobatics, and Eruption on Whiscash as a resisted Eruption still hits alot harder than a neutral EP/DP (168 Vs. 90).
    The Whiscash goes down to ~45% and uses Muddy Water, dropping my accuaracy on both Tornadus and Heatran. Then Ganymed sents out Donphan who's Quick Claw activates and CH's my Tornadus with Stone Edge (Now that Crit didn't matter but I feel like mentioning it), while Whiscash avoids my Eruption and rests. I sent in Blastoise while the fucking Donphan's Quick Claw activates again Earthquakes my Pokémon. I Hidden Power the Whiscash for the 1HKO and Ganymed sents out Walrein(!). I sent out Scizor, BP Donphan, and kill it. Blastoise Hidden Powers Walrein and leaves it at around 80%. The Walrein uses Fissure on my Blastoise and hits it. Scizor Bug Bite's Walrein on the next turn (Which was a 2HKO from there). The Walrein uses Fissure again and kills my Scizor..

    Now THAT my friends, was the biggest bullshit battle I've had so far in the Subway. The team I'm running now however does very well and is for keeps. If it didn't play this fast (4.5 streaks in an hour on average) I probably wouldn't even bother to keep playing anymore.

    I spoilered the team in case you're interested. I'm going to stick with this for a while as I feel like this team has alot more potentional than the #109 streak I have now.


    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Pokémon White 2 Super Doubles

    Tornadus @ Flying Gem
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Speed
    Stats: 186-183-90-121-100-132
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Prankster

    ~ U-Turn
    ~ Tailwind
    ~ Acrobatics
    ~ Superpower

    Heatran @ Fire Gem
    EV's: 6 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
    Stats: 166-110-126-200-126-116
    Nature: Quiet
    Ability: Flash Fire

    ~ Protect
    ~ Eruption
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Dragon Pulse

    Blastoise @ Water Gem
    EV's: 6 HP / 248 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def / 252 Speed
    Stats: 155-89-120-149-126-130
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Torrent

    ~ Protect
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Water Spout
    ~ Hidden Power Grass

    Scizor @ Steel Gem
    EV's: 134 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Speed
    Stats: 162-200-120-61-100-101
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Technician

    ~ Tailwind
    ~ Bug Bite
    ~ Acrobatics
    ~ Bullet Punch
  5. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I would use this ev- spreads because Jolteon could be very anoying and fourthemore you'll outspeed other pokes like Jolly Weavile or Aerodactyl
  6. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,813
    Im not gonna use a Timid Blastoise while I have Priority Tailwind and 260 Speed under Tailwind (Blastoise)...
  7. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I've made another mistake....sorry....I was thinking that Tailwind would raise the speed by 50% and not 100 %
  8. KimTheHuman

    KimTheHuman

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Quick question, but are there any advantages of running Thundurus over its Therian form assuming that I'm abusing Drizzle for 100 acc Mindless Thunder spam? I'm really tempted by the ginormous SpAtk stat and volt absorb which works well with politoed. Thanks again and good luck with your streaks everyone! :D
  9. SA1TS

    SA1TS

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Thundurus Incarnate has two advantages, more speed and Prankster. If you have a revenge killer for faster threats and don't plan on using support moves (ie Tailwind) then Thundurus-T is probably a better bet. As you mentioned, Volt Absorb can be really helpful with Poli as it's partner as well as any other Electric weak pokes you may use. I'd suggest Thund-T @ Sash Timid 252SpAtk 252Spd 4Def- Thunder|Focus Blast|HP Ice|Grass Knot.
  10. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I would use SuperPower instead of FocusBlast because all the misses. If you'll play SuperPower on this set you should logicaly replace Timid for Hasty / Naive nature.
  11. BowlArt64

    BowlArt64

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    So I used this admittedly thrown-together team to get quick BP for a few sets of battles:

    Latios @ Dragon Gem
    Timid Nature
    4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Calm Mind

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Jolly Nature
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Slide

    Scizor @ Lum Berry
    Adamant Nature
    248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite

    and in only 21 battles, I must've ran into four Empoleons, aka full stops to that Latios. I swapped Calm Mind for Thunderbolt and I'm currently at a 42 streak with the team, but the interesting thing is that I haven't seen a single Empoleon in those 42 battles. Similarly, I used to use Hydreigon a lot and saw a ton of Poliwrath (forced Draco Meteor or switch) and Empoleon again (before BW2 and the Earth Power tutor). Another instance is when I used an Eviolite Machoke and fought Persim Kingdra leads (which are basically a one-to-one tradeoff guarantee - 2HKOed by DynamicPunch, but two Outrages leave Machoke basically dead) twice in a row, with a few more appearing elsewhere.

    With this in mind, the main question: Has there been any proof that opponent's Pokemon are generated based at least partially on what Pokemon you are using? This seems to be the general pattern for me at least, and I made one of my most successful Subway teams based on this (using lead Magnezone to bait Fighting-, Fire-, and Ground-types to be generated so Slowbro and Dragonite could take advantage of them: I posted about this a while ago; it got me into the 60s for the first time). Maybe it's just luck of the draw, but I'm just curious because that's a lot of coincidences.

    Btw I really just posted the team as a reference for the story, but if there's anything that stands out that can be improved, I'm fine with taking suggestions.
  12. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
  13. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I'm really sorry for the double post but....I've searched a little bit about BattleTower world records and found a side with this pics...

    http://mystic251.skyrock.com/2569145063-BHM-BSM-Scene-de-combat-Multi-2P-2-Joueurs.html

    If you take a look on the other pictures ( if you scroll down ) .. I only think ... Legal or not legal streaks?

    Whatever ... Jump got a 620 streak in the BattleHall ( still standing ) and the guy got a 6579 winstreak in the DoubleHall...UFF!
  14. Tomaius

    Tomaius

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    62
    Jokethe1, this guy has cropped up before. He had a win record (Pre B2/W2) of well over 1000 in the singles and doubles subway. Don't know if its legit or not.

    Does make me wonder what other countries metagames are like. I wonder what the Japanese records are like, if they have some radically different approach to the subway or not.
  15. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124

    I'm not sure but I think I've seen a "mistake". He had a red screen of showing his record which means it's on the easy line....but I think they are only 21 battles possible in the easy line .. or not?
  16. thesynchrohero

    thesynchrohero

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Would pokegenning pokemon because you don'y have lots of time be cheating ?
  17. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    After a few days of playing I just reached 170 wins in the BattleHall doubles....Following types I beat with the following moveset:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp ** Raptor
    Nature & Item: Jolly - ChoiceScarf
    Iv's: 31 - 31 - 31 - x - 31 - 31
    Ev's: 252 Attack & 252 Speed & 4 HP
    Stats(Lv.50): 184 - 182 - 115 - 79 - 105 - 169
    Moves: Outrage, Earthquake, RockSlide, FireFang

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp ** Crescent
    Nature & Item: Jolly - YacheBerry/FocusSash/ChoiceBand
    Iv's: 31- 31 - 31 - x - 31 - 31
    Ev's: 252 Attack & 252 Speed & 4 Sp.Defense
    Stats(Lv.50): 183 - 182 - 115 - 84 - 106 - 169
    Moves: Outrage, Earthquake, AquaTail, Protect/Flamethrower



    [​IMG]
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,017
    I decided to try out Truant Durant recently. This was my sweeper:

    Shuckle @ SilverPowder
    Sturdy
    Impish, 252 def/252 speed

    Bug Bite
    Protect
    Power Trick
    Shell Smash

    After Power Trick and Shell Smash (Power Trick HAS to go first because the boosts aren't swapped), Shuckle has 1240 Attack and 228 Speed, and SilverPowder Bug Bite OHKOs most opponents (I used Bug Bite because it was Shuckle's most powerful attack that has 100 accuracy and that nothing is immune to). Sturdy protects me from priority attacks and provides a safety net against certain forms of hax (Brightpowder, Quick Claw, etc).

    I paired it up with Durant + Garchomp, similar to NoCheese, except I ran Baton Pass over X-Scissor on my Durant as a way of escaping from Magnet Pull + Volt Switch Magnezone. The teams works well, although Ice teams are dangerous (Hail breaks Sturdy, so a Hail lead followed by something with Ice Shard is scary). I kept Iron Head on Durant for this reason, although it isn't the best solution to the problem.

    I lost pretty early to this:

    803 | Gothitelle | Modest | BrightPowder | Substitute | Flatter | Psych Up | Psychic | HP/SpA

    Brightpowder activated and Gothitelle copied all of my boosts with Psych Up. That's ok, I thought, because I still have Sturdy... except Brightpowder activated again as it hits me with Psychic. Gothitelle then swept my team with Psychic using the boosts it stole from me. I'm pretty sure I've lost to this Gothitelle before thanks to that Brightpowder, which it obviously holds because it is the only way it can ever be a threat.

    This will probably be the last team I make for the Subway. Hopefully X+Y will create a new facility. The Subway was a huge step-up from the Battle Tower of the older generations (in terms of difficulty) and it will be interesting to see what they do next.
  19. mikekap

    mikekap

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    I'm using this team right now, and it's epic.I've reached 79 win streak, my highest ever....Tornadus is such a boss....
  20. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,813
    Im at 196 right now, but im only doing 3-5 streaks a day due to limited time.
    And yea Flying + Fire is a good attacking combo on most leads :).
  21. Professor Shroomish

    Professor Shroomish

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    2 Questions...
    1. I am playing White 1. But I am using Entrainment Durant. My records would go under B2W2, right? Or would they not count at all?
    2. Are legal hacks allowed? Or must the mons be RNG'ed?
    Thanks :P
  22. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,687
    According to previous trends in this thread, (1) they would go under BW2, and (2) even legal hacks are not allowed.
  23. BobDoily

    BobDoily o.O
    is a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    102
    The thread is talking about custom generated pokemon, and being impressed with records about 200 in Battle Frontier without them. They looked down on giving 252 EVs to all stats, but seem to be okay skipping RNG for flawless, legal mons.

    They talked about using OP Smeargle, but no details on the set.

    Thread is from 2009 so before the Durant trick.

    Bunch of thread is also talking about related irl playgroup meetups.
  24. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    On the hand it's possible but that doesn't matter because EVEN with max ev's on each stat Smeargle is still weak and slow .. on the other hand I guess the Smeargles had a ChoiceScarf with a OHKO move and a 100% hitting cheat.....but against Sturdy the strategy will fail.....blargh whatever thanks for answering anyway and you too thesynchrohero.

    I reached 105 wins with my new Platinum battle tower team which I'll post later
  25. Tomaius

    Tomaius

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    62
    Probably fake.

    Some who had such a good record would be looking to boast about how he did it. Especially with such an amazing record with such odd pokemon.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)