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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. pidj

    pidj

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    I've finally got a streak with a team that gets me on to the leaderboard (even if only just...). I lost in my 83rd battle so a streak of 82

    It's a doubles team and I took some inspiration from a team I saw elsewhere.

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Yanmega @Life Orb
    Speed Boost
    Modest
    EV's: 40HP/252Sp.A/4Sp.D/212Spe
    - Detect
    - Bug Buzz
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power Ice [70]

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @Focus Sash
    Justified
    Jolly
    EV's: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @Wide Lens
    Levitate
    Modest
    EV's: 252HP/248Sp.A/4Sp.D/4Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Grass [70]
    - Protect

    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @Wise Glasses
    Levitate
    Timid
    EV's: 4HP/252Sp.A/252Spe
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect


    Notes:
    - The general strategy is to detect on turn 1 with Yanmega most of the time, unless I'm up against a Psychic trainer with pokes slower than mine. Terrakion will either hit hard turn 1 or protect. After that it's just a matter of hitting hard and protecting/detecting when appropriate.
    - I have also tried Muscle Band, Expert Belt and White Herb (to remove the effects of Initimidate and Close Combat defence drops) but overall Focus Sash seems to be the best fit.
    - I probably don't switch as much as I should but the defensive synergy is generally good. And having 3 pokes that's either a flying type or has Levitate is a nice complement to Terrakion's EQ.
    - I originally had a non-RNG Rotom-W with Timid nature, EV's in Spe and Sp.A with Thunder Wave over HP Grass but it got walled by Water/Ground types (obviously) and I wanted more bulk. So I built something similar to atsync's Rotom-W and it works nicely.
    - I'm least happy with Hydreigon but I wanted something to deal with Bug/Steels and Ferrothorn and also bulky Ghost types. Originally I thought of Chandelure but I didn't want the extra rock weakness (although the fighting immunity would have been nice) and then I found the Hydreigon in my PC and it seemed like a good fit. It's also nice to have a dragon type on the team too. Wise glasses is not the best item but I didn't want to be choice locked. I did try leftovers but wasn't fussed by that either. I've also considered Latios and Scizor for this position but as of yet undecided.



    This is the video of the battle I lost in: 43-13910-94859

    The team works well and it's quite easy to know when to protect with each poke due to good defensive synergy.

    Yanmega is targetted a lot more than Terrakion due to it's frailty. I liked Yanmega, it hit surprisingly hard and after 1 speed boost with the given EV's I outsped all but the Accelgor and scarfed subway pokes.

    I ended up losing to this: :
    893 | Blissey | Bold | Chople Berry | Toxic | Minimize | Mud Bomb | Softboiled |Def/SpD

    It came out when my Terrakion was in back and by the time I got Terrakion out it had already minimised twice. A slight argument for Secret Sword perhaps? I don't think the loss in power is worth it though.
  2. mikekap

    mikekap

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    After using Eppie's Team with Tornadus, (which led me to a respectable 100+ winning streak), I saw someone talking about Clamperl team and I've been theorymoning a little.Then I decided to use this team, but I think it can be improved:
    ~Parasect, Adamant,Focus Sash,Dry Skin
    31/31/31/0/31/31
    252hp/252att/6spdef
    -Rage Powder
    -Spore
    -Seed Bomb
    -Protect

    ~Clamperl,Timid,DeepSeaTooth,Shell Armor
    31/0/31/31/31/31
    6hp/252spatk/252spd
    -Shell Smash
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Protect

    ~Toxicroak,Adamant,DarkGem,Dry Skin
    31/31/31/0/31/31
    6hp/252atk/252spd
    -Fake Out
    -Sucker Punch
    -Drain Punch
    -Detect

    ~Gardevoir,Timid,Choice Scarf,Telepathy
    31/0/31/31/31/31
    6hp/252spatk/252spd
    -Psychic
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Ally Switch (I am definitely considering hp ice)

    Any suggestions? Should I make Clamperl Modest, instead of Timid? I think Parasect is fine with Focus Sash, cause it guarantees me a free set up turn for Clamperl, and Parasect is always 2HKOed, if need arises. Is Gardevoir's setup ok? I will surely change ally switch, I am not using it at all.And, is there anything better from Gardevoir, that doesn't care about Clamperl's Surfs?
  3. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I would use Amoonguss over Parasect because it is more bulky
  4. mikekap

    mikekap

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Yes, but Parasect is immune to Surf, it heals from it (and maybe Focus Sash will be reactivated).I am pretty happy with that guy...Amongossus will be hit from Clamperl's Surfs...I think that he's good, I am not sure about the things I mentioned before...I will try that mushroom maybe later...
  5. flavor0

    flavor0

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    I used Parasect in a similar role (on a Drizzle team partnered with Shell Smash Omastar), but I used a more defensive EV spread: Careful Nature with 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD. I also used Leftovers instead of Focus Sash. I found this set worked really well, and I think the more defensive EVs would give your Parasect a lot more longevity. Up to you whether to use Focus Sash or Leftovers, depends on how often you find Focus Sash being helpful. I also ran X-Scissor over Seed Bomb for its better coverage, but I could see Seed Bomb being useful for the Water-types that Clamperl struggles with.

    I would say the choice of Modest over Timid depends on how many Shell Smashes you find yourself doing in each battle. With a Timid Nature, +2 speed Clamperl hits 184 speed which lets it outspeed positive nature, max speed 115 Pokes (Starmie, Raikou, etc - which are pretty dangerous), lets you speed tie with Zebstrika, but still leaves you out-sped by 120+ and many scarfers. With Modest you gain quite a bit of power, but fail to outspeed a fair amount of Subway Pokes at +2, since you only hit 168 speed.

    If you find yourself getting 2 Shell Smashes in, then I would definitely go with Modest. You could even tweak the EVs if you wanted to put more into HP to increase Clamperl's longevity.

    Toxicroak is fantastic in the Subway, and this is a great set. If you decide to take Focus Sash away from Parasect, I've found that it's a great item for Toxicroak.

    Hmm, interesting choice. I'm always hesitant to use a choice user in the back whose main attack(s) have Pokemon that are immune to them though, since that could easily put you in a checkmate situation if you are forced to send out Gardevoir early without any backup switches. How long is Clamperl staying alive? If Clamperl often gets KO'ed during the course of your battles it may be a good idea to have simply a solid backup Poke that can deal with things Clamperl struggles with. Doesn't necessarily need to have a water immunity. This depends on how you currently use Gardevoir though.

    Hope you find this helpful!
  6. mikekap

    mikekap

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    I like those changes, I'll make Parasect more Defensive, but keep for now the focus Sash, for the guaranteed setup.I'll see about Clamperl's nature,if I can make it Shell smash twice.I'll try maybe latios instead of Gardevoir, propably a classic Timid with life orb and dragon pulse, protect, psychic, thunderbolt.Ok, I'm gonna try it now! Thanks!
  7. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Yeah true!

    I have found a other idea:
    [​IMG]
    Jellicent
    Nature & Item : Timid - ChoiceScarf
    Ev's: 252 Speed & 252 Sp.Attack & 4 HP
    Moves: WaterSpout, Surf/HP Grass, ShadowBall, IceBeam

    Jellicent needs WaterAbsorb as ability
  8. BobDoily

    BobDoily o.O
    is a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    102
    I'm considering rolling a Durant truant team. Instead of grabbing three random 1v1 pokes and testing my luck.

    I just setup Dream World for Black 2, and was wondering roughly how many sessions it will take til I have the chance to get a Durant.
  9. KimTheHuman

    KimTheHuman

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Jellicent does have Water Absorb as an ability :D Plus, Energy Ball is stronger than HP grass (including that itty bitty 10% chance for the S.Def drop)
  10. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    I know that Jellicent has WaterAbsorb but with "need" I mean it should have it and no other ability because it wouldn't work pretty awesome without WaterAbsorb. Oh damn! I mean HP Electric instead of HP Grass.
  11. pidj

    pidj

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    I played with my leads again but changed the back line with improved results. To be honest I think I've just got better playing with the leads as most of the time they'd do the job on their own.

    I ended with 120 wins. Proof video at end of the post

    Team:

    Yanmega@life orb
    Speed boost; modest; 44HP, 252Sp.A, 212 Spe
    Bug Buzz, Air Slash, HP Ice 70, Detect

    Terrakion @focus sash
    Justified; adamant; 4HP, 252Atk, 252Spe
    Rock Slide, Close Combat, EQ, Protect

    Latios @wise glasses
    Levitate; timid; 4HP, 252Sp.A, 252Spe
    Dragon Pulse, Psychic, T-Bolt, HP Fire 70

    Ferrothorn @leftovers
    Iron barbs; sassy; 252HP, 4Atk, 252Sp.D
    Curse, Leech Seed, Power Whip, Gyro Ball

    70th battle (close call): 52-66455-15877
    This battle justifies the use of ferrothorn although I didn't know it when I put him on there and to be honest I'm still unsure of using it but it served the purpose of being a bulky steel type, physical attacker and having a grass type move for water/ground types. It was also made before I learnt to rng and fully understood ev's so it may look a little odd.

    121st battle (my defeat): 88-74442-01296
    I think I misplayed a couple of times here. Not dealing with electrode or thinking about it having soundproof cost me. I also think having protect on latios and ferrothorn would be useful but don't know where to put it. Latios could sacrifice hp fire as that was quite underwhelming. 'Thorn is a tougher choice as I found all the moves useful.
  12. Colossus

    Colossus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    326
    As I don't have access to a Gen V game, I'm still toying with the HeartGold Battle Frontier. Is it pretty well assumed everyone's moved on to Subway, or is there a place where I can ask questions?
  13. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    You can still ask questions here about 4th gen games. I have White but don't play it much right now and I'm playing HG/SS Frontier too, so if you've any questions feel free to ask!
  14. Colossus

    Colossus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    326
    Thanks, Jokethe1. I was wondering if a team I built would be any good. Without further ado...

    JAWS (Garchomp)
    Jolly@Focus Sash
    4 HP/252 ATK/252 SPD
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge/Fire Fang/Substitute
    Swords Dance

    An extremely common Frontier Pokemon, but that doesn't make it any less effective. Has good synergy with its teammates, and can handle many things on its own. Just plain awesome.


    Borealis (Suicune)
    Bold@Leftovers/Chesto Berry
    252 HP/252 DEF/4 SPD
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Calm Mind
    Rest

    Extremely sturdy, tanks hits like a boss, can sweep if given the opportunity. I love this thing. This is the "glue" of the team, as it resists Ice and Fire, and can generally beat Dragon and Ground types, respectively. I'm not naive enough to assume a Pokemon has to be a certain type to carry a certain move, but this thing just works.


    Gigaton (Metagross)
    Adamant@Shuca Berry/other
    (I really am unsure how to EV this thing. Max attack, but the split between bulk and speed is difficult to decide)
    Meteor Mash/Iron Head
    Earthquake
    Explosion
    Bullet Punch/Ice Punch

    This thing...other than the previously mentioned synergy, I can only say this Pokemon is a monster.


    As a sidenote, I'm only only theorymoning here, so feel free to critique. I'm not an absolute noob, as I have been playing for a while and can RNG efficiently. Not shooting for a 2300+ win streak, but I'm considering going for the record of the highest streak without a TS team. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
  15. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124

    That should be a good team. 124 Speed ev's for Metagross to reach 106 to outspeed Cresselia and a few others. Substitute and FocusSash wouldn't make much sence on this Garchomp set.




    But I've found a guy who reached a 500+ winstreak with this team:

    Garchomp
    Nature & Item: Adamant -ChoiceBand
    Moves: Outrage, Earthquake, FireFang, StoneEdge

    Magnezone
    Nature & Item: Modest - Leftovers
    Moves: Thunderbolt, FlashCanon, SignalBeam, HP Fire

    Gengar
    Nature & Item: Timid - FocusSash
    Moves: ShadowBall, Thunderbolt, HP Ice, DestinyBound

    He didn't put the ev's in the post but I guess Garchomp had 252 Attack & 252 Speed, Gengar 252 Sp.Attack & Speed, Magnezone had Sturdy for OHKO move users (Walrein, Dewgong, etc.) and 252 Sp.Attack and maybe HP and Speed ev's.

    Good luck with destroying the battle Tower :)
  16. PrimordialHydra

    PrimordialHydra

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    17
  17. aussieman000

    aussieman000

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    111
    Longtime lurker, haven't posted here yet - probably a little late to get in on the action with X & Y 5 months away lol.

    I just wanted to post, and maybe get some advice on a team I've been using on Super Singles that got me to 175. I won't post a picture since I regrettably threw the last game out of impatience, but once i'm back at that level and continuing the streak I might. Anyway here is the team.

    Show Hide
    Scizor @ Metal Coat
    Trait: Technician
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 92 Def / 92 SDef / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    Milotic @ Leftovers
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 68 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Recover

    Gliscor @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Poison Heal
    Level: 50
    EVs: 180 HP / 168 Atk / 156 Spd / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost
  18. samurott69

    samurott69

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14
  19. Razor720

    Razor720

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    im not sure if this is where im supposed to post this but there it goes. I recently went to try the battle subway for the first time..... and i keep getting wiped out by round 11-12 looking at the scores at the top of this topic theres obviously something i dont know about batle subways if anyone can help me build a singles team i can build from there but i really need the help im trying to get items for my competitive teams and its taking forever plus i want to have a 200 win streak too >.< . im currently using a defensive hail team of Mamoswine, Sigilyph, and Mandibuz.
  20. acreland

    acreland

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Hey Razor720, welcome.

    Your best bet is to read through some of the record teams on page one to give you a good indication of what works in the Subway. You can also find useful guides there such as Subway speed tiers, AI Pokemon and their movesets. Honestly though, the only way to get better streaks are to spend hours playing and getting a "feel" for the Subway.

    If you want quick BP you can try this team though, [SIZE=-2] Cloyster, Garchomp, Suicune v1[/SIZE] by Peterko. Not only is it an excellent team which speeds through most battles but Peterko has also included an extensive guide on how to use it.
  21. Tomaius

    Tomaius

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    65
    Whoa! Hold on there!

    Razor, you may have notice this thread has died as of late. That is because in Black and White 2 a team combination has been discovered that outright breaks the subway. Plus getting a good Suicune is like panning for gold in a sewage treatment plant. It does happen but by the end of it you'll smell and all your friends will want to avoid you.

    This combination is obviously Yadhadzai's Durant, Whimsicott and Dragonite set. It is practically invincible if played right. As a rule however Razor in case you want to experiment, the way to play the Subway is to set up a powerful sweeper such as Dragonite, muscling through any threat with a +6 Atk Dragon Claw.

    Best piece of advice I can give though is just work through the pain. Your ability to predict the AI improves over time and you yourself get much better over time. Getting a 200 win streak is doable but it requires a fair bit of work.
  22. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    207
    Welcome to Smogon, Razor720.

    As Yip notes, the record list on the first page is probably your best bet for detailed team ideas and explanations of how the pokes on a well-made team work together. But I'll give some more suggestions here.

    First, the absolute best streaks tend to be based on crippling the opposing lead (with passing a Choice Scarf, lowering its attacking stats, and/or using Entrainment to pass the Truant ability onto it). Since the AI only switches out in a very limited set of circumstances, a crippled lead then lets you bring in a sweeper to use a bunch of stat boosting and protective (Substitute) set up moves and then sweep the opposing team.

    You can, however, put together very good streaks with more traditional synergy/attacking teams, and especially when you are just starting to learn the Subway, these are the types of teams you should try. They also tend to go through battles much faster than do cripple teams, which is a nice advantage. Ideally you'll want one hard hitter that can KO a lot of opposing pokes on its own, one bulky pivot that can help handle the pokes that your primary sweeper can't handle, and a third poke, bulky or hard hitting, to help fill in the gaps. To the extent possible, you'll want the pokes to cover each other's weakness and not share too many weakness between them, since all it takes is a team weakness to a single opposing poke to have your whole streak end abruptly. The front page gives some excellent team ideas, but on the subject of good individual pokes, here is a list of tried-and-true Subway pokes and their main advantages and disadvantages. Note that I'm not discussing dedicated cripplers here, but if you are interested in a crippling team, look at the front page for top scoring teams with Durant and/or Whimsicott and/or Latias, the most common and best Subway cripplers.

    Garchomp: Amazing typing, and with a Jolly nature and max Speed, can outrun a large portion of the Subway. Garchomp's Ground and Dragon STABs cover a huge fraction of the Subway pokemon, and corner case moves like Fire Fang and Rock Slide can handle the few that they don't. With just a Choice Band, Garchomp's Outrange and Earthquake can OHKO a bunch of things, and with its only weaknesses being to Ice and Dragon moves, even where Garchomp isn't able to OHKO the opponent, most opponents won't be able to OHKO it either. Alternatively, you can run Swords Dance and Life Orb or Lum Berry and have Garchomp play as a set-up sweeper. Very few things can survive Garchomp's attacks at +2. Garchomp also plays very well with bulky Waters. It is immune to the Electric attacks that they draw, while they resist the Ice attacks that destroy it. Note that like any Dragon, it fears faster Dragon attacks, so you may also want a Steel to help protect against opposing Latios and Latias or Choice Scarf Garchomp.

    Cloyster: After a single Shell Smash, Cloyster becomes an extremely fast and hard hitting beast. With Skill Link as its ability, Icicle Spear and Rock Blast both always hit 5 times, doing a ton of damage and breaking through both Focus Sashes and the Sturdy ability. Surf or Razor Shell provides additional coverage. Since Shell Smash lowers Cloyster's defenses, a typical tactic is to put it in the lead spot but equip it with a Focus Sash to ensure it survives the set up turn. Cloyster dislikes opposing priority and status ailments, particularly paralysis, so it pairs well with Garchomp or other Ground pokes, which can switch it on a predicted opposing first turn Thunder Wave.

    Dragonite: Dragonite hits really hard, particularly after it gets in a Dragon Dance or two. Thanks to its Dream World ability of Multiscale, it is extremely hard to OHKO a Dragonite, buying it the time it needs to get at least one Dragon Dance in. After just one Dance, Dragonite outspeeds and OHKOs a lot of the Subway, and after a second, very few things can survive it, absent a Focus Sash or Sturdy. An equipped Lum Berry can both protect against the confusion from Outrage and allow you to Dragon Dance safely even in the face of a status move from the opponent. Dragonite is really versatile, as well. Outrage is its bread and butter for smashing holes in things, but even without STAB, Earthquake hits quite hard, especially against the Steels that resist Outrage. Fire Punch is another good coverage option. Roost lets Dragonite play a tankier role, and try to abuse Multiscale multiple times, while ExtremeSpeed can finish off frail but fast or priority-using opponents. For cripple teams, a mono-attacking Dragon Claw/Roost/Substitute/Dragon Dance Dragonite is probably the best sweeper available, once your other pokes have crippled the opponent to let you set up. Dragonite's biggest weakness is its low base speed. Because most other Subway Dragons can initially outspeed it, an unboosted Dragonite can take a lot of damage from an opposing lead Dragon. Lots of Ice move users can outspeed you too. You'll definitely want a Steel to switch in if you use Dragonite on a non-crippling team.

    Suicune: My vote for best self-supporting poke in the Subway. Even without any team support, a Bold defensive Suicune can switch into and set up on a really large number of Subway pokes. Water is an amazing defensive type, and coupled with Suicune's big defenses, Suicune can be very tough to take down. A Scald/Calm Mind/Substitute/Rest set with Leftovers or a Chesto Berry is probably your best bet, but Ice Beam and Icy Wind are other move options to consider. Note that Pressure, a normally unexciting ability, is pure gold on Suicune. Many pokes have only one move that can break a Suicune Substitute, particularly after a Calm Mind or two, and Pressure lets you stall out that move, and then easily set up to +6/+6. Suicune lacks the reliability of Recover or the like, but given its tremendous bulk, it does just fine with Rest.

    Milotic: If you lack a Suicune (or don't have one with good stats/nature), Milotic is your next best bet. Good bulk (particularly with Marvel Scale), reasonable speed, and the flexibility to attack decently well make Milotic a fine choice for a bulky Water in the Subway. Recover provides reliable recovery, Scald and Ice Beam give solid damage (and the chance of a super helpful burn or freeze), and Toxic lets you beat other bulky Waters (or bulky pokes generally). Some teams even add protect to the Toxic + Recover combo to crank up their Toxic Stalling. Milotic is vulnerable to untimely crits (since it doesn't normally have room to run Substitute) and unlike Suicune, can't set up on things it dominates to make sweeping subsequent pokes easier, but it can still serve you well.

    Scizor: Excellent typing leaves it with only one weakness and a lot of key resistances, including both Ice and Dragon, and with Technician, its STAB moves Bug Bite and Bullet Punch hit hard. Can play a boosting tank type role with Roost and Swords Dance, or can use moves like Superpower for better coverage. Scizor can switch into a lot of scary moves thanks to its typing, and especially after a Swords Dance, can take big advantage of priority Bullet Bunch to kill a number of pokes before they can act. If you are using a Dragon, you'll likely want a Steel to cover its weaknesses, and Scizor is one of the best options available. Just make sure you're not otherwise weak to Fire, since that 4x weakness hurts!

    Ferrothorn: Very bulky on both the physical and special sides, and its Grass typing removes the Ground weakness that most Steels hate. Because of its slow Speed, Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball can be extremely powerful, and Curse plays beautifully with it, not only boosting Ferrothorn's Attack and Defense, but also increasing Gyro Ball's power by dropping Speed. Ferrothorn can play a defensive stall role with Leech Seed and Substitute, or can broaden its attacking options with Power Whip. Ferrothorn's biggest disadvantages are that it lacks a reliable recovery move and its slow speed sometimes limits what it can set up on. The 4x Fire weakness hurts too. Still, Ferrothorn stops a number of big threats cold, and makes another good choice of Steel type.

    Gengar: Gengar has a wonderful Special Attack stat and great Speed, enabling it to outrun threats like Infernape and the Musketeers. Its three immunities are really helpful too, and a small number of pokemon in the Subway are unable to hurt Gengar at all. Unfortunately, it lacks a good boosting move and with the limited power/coverage of its STAB moves, a Life Orb or Choice Specs set won't grab as many OHKOs as you might want. Accordingly, Gengar works best as a lead with a Focus Sash, 3 damaging attacks, and Destiny Bond. Against many foes, you can outspeed and 2HKO the lead, surviving the first-turn counter attack thanks to your Sash, and then outspeed and KO the second opponent with Destiny Bond. This leaves you with a 2-1 advantage, typically a happy place to be in a battle. Even where you can't beat the opponent's lead, you can almost always at least trade with it thanks to Destiny Bond, meaning Gengar always helps a little. Since Gengar usually dies, however, you need to be really sure your remaining two pokes can cover as broad a range of threats as possible, since if the opponent's last poke can beat both of Gengar's partners, you will be in trouble.

    Starmie: 115 base Speed means that Starmie outruns the vast majority of Subway opponents. Coupled with Starmie's wonderful mix of coverage moves, and you've got a pokemon that can outrun and kill a number of opponents by hitting their weaknesses hard, particularly when equipped with a Life Orb or Choice Specs. Starmie can be a nice cleaner too, finishing off a pokemon that one of its teammates weakened. Natural Cure is a great ability, allowing Starmie to heal status with ease. Unfortunately, Starmie's Special Attack stat isn't anything special, and it lacks a boosting move, so if it can't hit a weakness, it probably isn't going to OHKO, and bulky foes will sometimes be able to survive hits on their weaknesses too. Still the combination of excellent coverage and Speed can make Starmie a valuable asset (and one of the most dangerous foes) in the Subway.

    Latios: Not quite as fast as Starmie, but blessed with a much better Special Attack, Latios hits fast and hard. Latios also has the possibility to set up a bit with Calm Mind, letting it better muscle through opposing teams. You'll almost certainly want to run Dragon Pulse, but after that, you've got a lot of move flexibility, with a STAB Psychic or Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Surf, Ice Beam, and even Hidden Power Fire all being possibilities. You also have the option to use Latios as a hybrid attack-cripple lead, giving it three attacks, Life Orb, and Memento. Attack away until you get low, then Memento to make it easier for your next poke to set up. Psychic typing gives Latios a lot more weaknesses than the typical Dragon, but it has a nice resistance spread too, and is one of the few Dragons to lack the ugly 4x Ice weakness, which means it can survive medium strength Ice attacks where many of its brethren would crumble. Latios' biggest shortcoming compared to other Dragon-types is the lack of a special attacking version of Outrange. Dragon Pulse is a fine move, but the thirty points of power it lacks compared to Outrage often makes the difference between a OHKO and a 2HKO. Latios can get a lot of opponents low with one move, but can't blast through teams as well as an Outraging Garchomp or Dragonite. Draco Meteor looks nice, but the ninety percent accuracy can bite you at the worst possible time, and the minus two Special Attack drop means you can't use it to sweep whole teams. I've often wanted to run Choice Scarf Modest Latios as a cleaner and revenge killer alongside Garchomp, but it's hard to support a team with two Dragons, thanks to the shared weaknesses. Still, if you are in the market for a hard-hitting Dragon, Latios will serve you well.

    Darmanitan: Sheer Force + Flare Blitz gives Darmanitan ridiculous power. Throw on a Choice Scarf and you'll outspend most of the Subway, while with a Choice Band, the power of your Flare Blitz will dwarf even that of Choice Band Garchomp's Outrage. Either way, Darmanitan can smash through many opponents with ease. Moves like Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Superpower give you reasonable coverage options, and U-Turn lets you do a little damage while switching out of unfavorable matchups. Still, spamming Flare Blitz is your biggest strength, and that alone will get you a number of wins. Another small advantage possessed by Darmanitan is that it is one of the easiest pokes on this list to acquire in-game. Your biggest weakness is that Fire doesn't have the greatest coverage and is a bad defensive type, but for pure attacking power, very little matches Darmanitan in the Subway.


    This list is far from comprehensive, and there are plenty of other great options, but it should provide you with a nice starting place for building a non-crippling Subway team.

    A few other general notes:

    Take advantage of the lists of what pokemon different computer trainers use. Serebii has a nice and easy-to-use battle Subway trainer catalogue which you can easily google, and Team Rocket Elite and R Inanimate put together a similar resource here:
    http://www.smogon.com/ingame/bc/bw_subway_trainers Just knowing the moveset and stats of the pokemon you are facing is ridiculously helpful.

    EVs, IVs, and Nature really matter. All opposing pokes either max EVs in two stats or split them evenly between three, and very early on in a Subway run, they'll all have perfect IVs, too. This means that if you use pokemon with suboptimal natures, or bad EVs and IVs, you'll be at a disadvantage. For attacking pokes, you'll want to make sure that at the very least, you have the maximum IV in Speed, and having a maximum IV in the appropriate attack stat is highly recommended too. Garchomp, for example has 102 base Speed. With a Jolly nature and 31 IVs in Speed, plus 252 EVs, he'll outrun all non-boosted base-100s, even those with a speed-improving nature. But with just a slightly lower Speed IV, or a different nature, or less than the full 252 EVs, he'll no longer outspeed them all, and risk being outsped and killed by things that he should outrun. In general, for an attacking pokemon, you'll want a Speed-improving nature unless it's using a Choice Scarf or has a way to boost its Speed, like Dragon Dance. This isn't an absolute rule, but if you look at top non-crippling teams, you'll see that it is typically the case. Bulky pokes can often get away with lower IVs in Speed and Attack, but are much more dependent on having reasonable defensive stats. Obviously, RNGing is the easiest way to get well-IVed Subway pokes, but with breeding items and the like, it's not particularly difficult to manually breed a poke with 2 or 3 perfect stats either. Take the time to do so. It is worth it.

    Finally take a look at this article on Subway basics by flavor0 and Cradily. http://www.smogon.com/ingame/bc/battle_subway_part1

    Hope this helps, and good luck putting a nice streak together.

    PS: Make sure you have an answer to Timid King's Rock Starmie with Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt. It is the bane of many a Subway team!!
  23. SimicCombine

    SimicCombine

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    I've played with Darmanitan extensively, and you don't really need a Choice Band to just nuke everything. A 234 bp attack (counting STAB and Sheer Force) 1HKOs almost everything that doesn't resist, and 2HKOs most of the things that do. Those that aren't generally can't touch a bulky water.

    Darmanitan is outsped by an annoyingly large number of Subway mons, and despite its great HP, it doesn't really have the defenses to take a hit first. Choice Scarf all the way.

    There's another advantage to running Garchomp. If you have a bulky water, you can easily beat the dreaded Starmie by just switching between Chomp and your water-type until Starmie is out of Thunderbolts/Ice Beams. The AI will always go for the super-effective hit.
  24. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
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    Aye, I hear you on Choice Scarf Darmanitan being generally better, and that's why I listed it before Choice Band, though I didn't make the point expressly. Nice call on the switching between Chomp and the bulky Water to beat SPIT Starmie. A good tactic to keep in mind!
  25. Codraroll

    Codraroll
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    ^As far as I can tell, this is a spambot, triggered by the forum tag "Pokémon", and posting a semi-relevant message in random threads. The link in its signature apparently leads to a Polish security/monitoring site.

    V: Don't be confused, it was a spambot. Or a poor Polish user I scared into deleting all his posts and leave Smogon forever.

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