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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    That Cobalion loss reminds me a lot about how I lost my Durant+Shuckle streak, except I was beaten by that stupid Brightpowder Gothitelle...

    Do you just run max Speed on Gothitelle? When you mentioned Gothitelle I sort of wondered whether there was some sort of "ideal" Speed tier to hit although I didn't really come up with an answer. If you were pedantic about it you could knock a few EVs off of Speed since you only need 244 to outspeed everything you possibly can with a Scarf. (You just miss Weavile at max but Bisharp can usually handle it, assuming it doesn't get frozen). 212 would give you enough Speed for Base 115 Speed Pokemon (and a few more can beat Zebstrika) so maybe that's a good way to go? All of that assumes a 31 Speed IV of course.

    I'm probably overthinking this!
  2. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    Ok thanks! You could use Chandelure as Tricker as well since with FlashFire they won't use Fire moves which could be useful on Dragonite because of the burn hax. Fourthemore they'll use Ghost / Water / Rock / Dark attacks on it which Dragonite and Bisharp resist. Same for Earthquake and Dragonite. Ice attacks won't be a problem. Sadly Chandelure can't learn T-Wave but still a moveset could look like this:
    Chandelure​
    Nature & Item: Timid - ChoiceScarf​
    Iv's: 31 - x - 31 - x - 31 - 31​
    Ev's: 252 HP & 228 Speed & 30 Defense​
    Moves: Trick, Flash, Taunt, Grudge/SunnyDay​

    228 Speed Ev's for 142 (if I'm right) to outspeed Electrode. SunnyDay mainly for SandStorm/Hail.
  3. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Hm, the whole point of Gothitelle was Shadow Tag though (Chandelure has it as well, but its DW ability is not released yet I don't think? And anywya, if it has Shadow Tag, it obviously cannot have Flash Fire as well).

    @atsync: unfortunately Gothitelle is not at a very good speed. Totally would have wanted a bit more to outspeed more things, but yeah, I actually just used Timid max speed... 252 HP 4 Def 252 Speed. I just didn't bother doing any calculations because I was lazy :P.

    But yeah, I realized I don't outspeed Weavile, and that was exactly the reason why I used Bisharp. I also used Bisharp instead of Scizor because of the rock resistance, since Aerodactyl also outspeeds, and Choice Scarf Rampardos Head Smash hurts a lot even when I resist.
  4. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    Yeah that's true but I wanted to say that Chandelure is maybe a better choice than Gothitelle. Even without ShadowTag Chandelure has still more weaknesses which Dragonite and Bisharp cover. So I mean....the opponet seems maybe to attack instead of using a status move and gives you a faster set up. Maybe the set up time doesn't matter how long it will take but after doing a lot of battles I guess it can be helpful
  5. GG Unit

    GG Unit

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    Has anyone tried this Moody mon with Entrainment support?

    Glalie @ Leftovers
    Timid, 252 Speed / 176 HP (recovers health from sub in 4 turns) / the rest probably in defenses
    -Sub
    -Protect
    -Taunt
    -Ice Breath/Ice Beam

    I think it'd work better than a Glalie with two attacks, since you could Taunt on the turns the opponent is loafing around. That saves Sub/Protect PP that you might need later, and the 32 PP of doing nothing means you have an even better chance of having all the right boosts by the time you choose to kill off the Entrained foe.

    Ice Breath is good insurance against being in the negative for Special Attack and makes it so you don't have to worry as much about Taunting any Cobalion or Gothitelle that might Psych Up on you, since you can just 2HKO. I'd probably lean towards the extra power Ice Beam gives since the odds of being at -1 or worse Special Attack after 30+ turns of boosts are ridiculously low (the Freeze chance definitely doesn't hurt either). I haven't run calcs on everything in the Subway, but +5 Ice Beam guarantees a OHKO on Terrakion whereas a +6 Ice Breath only has a 12.5% chance of OHKOing. That's big because it can break your Sub no matter what with Sacred Sword, and every set-up sweeper's worst nightmare is being left without a Sub against a Quick Claw user that can crit you through all your boosts.

    Mono-Ice isn't too bad for coverage, either. None of the Water/Ice types can do anything to you once you have some defensive boosts. You can even stall out the infamous Lax Incense Walrein's 10 OHKO moves and Taunt as it struggles itself to death. You even have a pretty good chance at coming out on top against Heatran, since the Choice Scarf set can be stalled out, Set 3 only has 5 PP of moves that take out your Sub in one hit if you're at +3 SpD or higher (plus anything with Sunny Day and Solarbeam tends to compulsively use those moves), and set 2 has only 15 PP of attacking moves. Set 1's the toughest, but even then it'd need to hit on well over half of its moves against a Pokemon with boosted evasion.

    Once this Glalie gets set up, the worst-case scenario is probably something like Sacred Sword Cobalion/Sacred Sword Terrakion in sand/Aura Sphere Lucario followed by Bullet Punch Scizor/Gear Grind Klinklang/random Quick Claw user that hits and crits through boosted evasiveness.
  6. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    I would say it in a nutshell....
    - Moody is after a lot of battles a real headage
    - Glalie will suck against Heatrean
    - Use Modest since Timid doesn't make much sence after a few QuiverDances
    - Use HP Ground maybe instead of Taunt if possible
  7. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I am trying something else now (yeah, I do this a lot). Something slightly more similar to what I used in the past.

    Whimsicott / Prankster / Bold @ Focus Sash - Taunt / Encore / Charm / Cotton Spore
    Rotom-H / Levitate / Bold @ Choice Scarf - Trick / Thunder Wave / Flash / Sunny Day
    Metagross / Clear Body / Adamant @ Leftovers - Agility / Hone Claws / Meteor Mash / Substitute

    Metagross is not really anything new (in case you might think it is). I've used it plenty in the past. I like it more than Registeel as the mono-steel-move set upper, just because set up is faster (6 Hone Claws + 2 Agility will outspeed everything and OHKO most things).

    The new member here is Rotom-H. I have used the same Whimsicott else where before, but I forgot where haha. The idea is that Whimsicott will taunt/encore the opponent into an attacking move, and then Rotom-H will choice lock.

    There are sort of 2 paths to take here with Whimsicott and Rotom-H. For fire moves, Whimsicott can attract fire and encore opponent into a fire attack. Rotom-H can Trick scarf and tank those hits while doing its Twave-Flashing, until the opponent runs out of that fire attack. Then Rotom-H can trick back the items and let Metagross set up. Alternatively, just taunt with Whimsicott and Rotom-H choice lock into a move that Metagross resists and choice lock into that. Rotom-H has pretty good defensive synergy with Metagross, resisting all of Metagross's weaknesses, while also resisting electric and bug which are neutral to Metagross. That leaves Ghost, Dark and Water moves for moves neutral to Metagross. Whimsicott can help make sure that Metagross is less likely to be tanking water attacks (water types that have ice moves will typically use ice moves on Whimsicott, and so Whimsicott can encore that if it is not frozen.) Some Ghosts or dark types would rather hit Whimsicott with a fire move, so that works out a bit better somewhat.

    Speaking of frozen, I just thought maybe I can get rid of Cotton Spore to use Safeguard. I think Cotton Spore was for something else before (probably a Spore Smeargle Baton Passing middle-guy for a team consisiting of Whimsicott-Smeargle-Set Upper). Currently its sole purpose is to make something slower such that Rotom-H will still be faster than opponent even after Trick, i.e. it basically buys Rotom-H one extra turn to Twave, which might not be as useful as Safeguard.

    Not very far with this team yet. Will update if (hopefully when) I get to at least 105 streak.

    EDIT: In case it was not clear why Rotom-H was chosen over Rotom-W (which resists water), the reason is mainly Rotom-H's bug resistance. Whimsicott will attract bug but not water, so Rotom-H is better in that regard.

    EDIT2: I kept losing early from teams with both Sturdy and Sash... I think I will have to go take a break from Subway once again to start preparing for VGC Worlds! I'll be back in a month or something!
  8. GG Unit

    GG Unit

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    When we talk about Pokemon/teams 'drawing' certain types of attacks, does that apply to the trainers/Pokemon you run into? For example, does a team of three Ice-weak Pokemon actually face a disproportionate amount of Ice Workers, or is there just a cognitive bias at work where facing an Ice Worker with such a team brings an increased likelihood that something memorable like a streak ending/getting haxed will happen?
  9. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Well I don't think that the game is capable of literally counter-teaming you intentionally; that is, I don't think the game analyses your team, identifies weaknesses, and then goes out of its way to ensure that the majority of teams you face are full of Pokemon that abuse this weakness. Sometimes you can get unlucky and have it feel like that though!
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    When we talk about Pokemon/teams "drawing" certain types of attacks, we are merely talking about type weaknesses/resistances/immunities. For example, Whimsicott is weak to fire, ice, and bug, while it resists water, grass, and electric, and so Whimsicott draws fire, ice, and bug attacks, while "not drawing" (or whatever the antonym is) water, grass, and electric attacks.

    This is particularly important for Trick-Scarf strategies in single, because choice locking your opponent into a move that you want it to, and then switching in a stat upper will be a much easier thing to do if the stat upper resists the move that the opponent is locked into.

    Of course, this is important for actual battling as well, predicting an opponent to use a certain attack and switching in an opponent that resist said attack. The main difference is that the AI is much easier to predict.
  11. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

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    Well, I just lost my doubles streak at battle 200 because I stupidly underestimated Blastoise's bulk. The hunt for a Starf berry begins anew... :(

    Trick Room team again - modified a bit from my last attempt:
    [​IMG]
    I figured that I was probably overcompensating for first turn freezes on my Trick Room setter (10% freeze chance, 80% chance of staying frozen on turn one is "just" an 8% chance of getting screwed) so I swapped out Lum Dusknoir for Eviolite Dusclops. Bulk matters in every match so it seems like a reasonable trade-off. Went with the lowest 16n-1 HP number to limit residual damage while maximizing Pain Split efficacy and dumped the rest into defenses. There is probably a better spread out there but from what I can see, there's no Dusclops spread that always survives a critical hit Shadow Ball from Chandelure. A 220 HP, 220 SD, Sassy spread would guarantee survival against a critical hit Shadow Ball from Timid Gengar so maybe I should toy around with that in the future but I don't know if the lower physical defense is worth it. Running both Seismic Toss and Night Shade is possibly redundant but I wanted to do chip damage to everything and I'm not enamored with depending on 75 accuracy WoW.

    Hariyama is the same as last time, a TR glass cannon with Fake Out support.
    [​IMG]
    Biggest change here - exchanging Tyranitar for Excavalier. One of the bigger issues I spotted on my initial team was that both my backup Pokemon were Bug weak and thus prime targets for Escavalier if Hariyama went down. Yet, I still needed a Psychic resist and Dark/Ghost resists in this slot. Escavalier's bulk, typing, and power fit perfectly. Megahorn's accuracy leaves much to be desired and I considered running both X-Scissor and Megahorn for various situations that called for reliability or power. Counter is mostly filler but it did come in handy against things like Sky Drop when TR was active. It also seems that the AI is mindful of Counter's presence and will boost its attack until it can ensure a KO on Escavalier but I don't know if that's just confirmation bias. Losing weather disruption and the Flying resist stings a little but the extra resists and slower Speed seems worth it as long as I can eliminate any Fire Pokemon before it hits the field.

    Reuniclus, like Hariyama, remains unchanged. I don't remember how I arrived at its EV spread but it could probably use some improvement.
    ---
    My loss can be seen here: https://www.pokecheck.org/?bid=612787843978

    [​IMG]
  12. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    On Reuniclus I would maybe put 76 Ev's in Sp.Defense because with a 207 HP / 115 Sp.Defense spread you're able to survive a Modest max. damage ShadowBall from Chandelure ( does 99% max. ) if I calculated right
  13. syndrome445

    syndrome445

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    I don't know if the AI knows what exactly your team is weak to but I think it tries to test out your capabailities vs teams it THINKS you would have trouble against. For example my rain doubles team faced a lot of trick room, sanstorm teams, and fast electric type pokemon. My singles choice locked rain team faced a lot of electric type teams which just happened to be what my team had trouble with. It may sound like I'm just pointing out my weaknesses but I really noticed an abundance of things I had trouble with. At one point, around my 200th win with my doubles rain team I faced 3 consecutive sandstorm teams. Coincidence? Maybe. But I have had many times where id say something like " Gastrodon really fucks me up here" or "swift swim kingdra would really be a problem for my rain team" and then guess what, the AI sends out Gastrodon, or swift swim Kingdra in the 2nd situation. But overall as a piece of advice i'd say to modify any team you make so it doesn't have a glaring weakness and/or many weaknesses.
  14. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

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    I doubt anyone here remembers me (most of the Subway/Tower veterans have probably moved on), just saying I'll get back into it when X/Y hopefully introduces a new Tower/Subway equivalent. Maybe it will be the Eiffel Battle Tower!

    Also, is it just my browser, or are all the links to record posts broken since the forum software was updated?
  15. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

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    According to this damage calculator, my current spread survives a max damage, non-crit SB from that Chandelure with 1 HP (that must be where I got the spread from lol). 76 SpDef EVs would give me another 2 HP leeway but I'm not sure 2 HP worth of chip damage happens often enough to matter (especially with Magic Guard).

    I'm trying out the bait/decoy Pokemon with Trick Room and it was working well until my TR lead got frozen by a Tri Attack Porygon2. Either I need to bulk up my Reuniclus for the decoy to work or Cleffa's SpDef is too high - possibly both? It did draw away all the physical attacks I encountered. Maybe I should try Ralts like an earlier poster did...
  16. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    I think that the whole Smogon - Subway forum was put into this side and all links are broken because Smogon got hacked. Nice to hear that you're alive :D
  17. Miscellaneous

    Miscellaneous

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    I think most users should remember you, from what I recall you always posted well.

    Yes, the update will have changed the links. It will be a pain to fix as unfortunately the post# is overall (instead of thread-specific).

    In other news I've been breaking my mind trying to get a Suicune/ Volc. core going in the Subway (perhaps I am wrong but the synergy just has a lot of appeal). Bold 252/252 def Suicune is still a complete boss but I'm finding that rest as a recovery move is no longer as reliable as it once was. Reminds me of "speed is the most important stat in the game".
    But I'm thinking that doubles could be a lot more interesting as there is slightly more room for experimentation. So I'm going to have a look into possible Sun + chlorophyll + entertainment (probably Lilligant) among perhaps some goofy baton pass antics.
  18. NoCheese

    NoCheese I'll play the wild Lombre, no never no more
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    There are certainly a lot more ways for things to go wrong in the Subway than in the Tower, even for a poke as amazing as Suicune. Are you using Leftovers or Chesto/Lum on Suicune? I've found that the quick awakening from the first sleep is often better than Leftovers recovery, especially because with Pressure and spamming Substitute that one free Rest can often enable you to stall out a move that might otherwise beat you. Often, opposing pokes have just one move that threatens Suicune, and once that is stalled out, it's easy to set up even with lots of sleeping turns and no Leftovers recovery.

    As far as the Suicune/Volcarona core, I'd think you want something with a solid Rock resist as your third poke. Volcarona is going to draw Rock attacks like mad, and since Stone Edge has that boosted Crit chance while Rock Slide can flinch, even with Bold 252/252 Suicune's massive Defense, you can be in trouble if you switch Suicune into a Rock move and have bad luck on the hax rolls. I know that even with Garchomp/Suicune/Ferrothorn, the wrong combination of pokes from a Rock trainer can be surprisingly irksome.

    As for Suicune's Speed, it's probably worth cheating on HP/Defense a little bit for a few points of Speed. If you look at the Subway Speed tiers, there's a number of pokes you can outspeed with a very small Speed investment, and at the least, you want to make sure you avoid Speed ties, since they are horrid for a Sub/Rester, as they put you at risk of eating two attacks in a row when you go first one turn and second the next. 107, 109, and 111 Speed are all reasonable targets, and don't require much in terms of EVs.
  19. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    He could copy your Suicune set :D
  20. Level 51

    Level 51 [17:37:18] boTTT: (Private to @Level 51) ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    Good news: the links now work because of DougJustDoug's ingenuity. Have fun not experiencing broken links any more!
  21. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

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    I'm glad some of you remember me - do you plan to play whatever X/Y have instead of the Subway? I hope it won't be so easily broken by Entrainment Durant.

    Also, that's great that Doug fixed the link problem. The only other issue is that the first post has the "SIZE=-2" brackets around each record post - is it possible for someone to fix that?
  22. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

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    Good question. I don't really know but I think yeah. Durant will break the Subway in Pokemon X/Y too because only MagicBounce Pokes would be able to counter it (if we ignore Prankster Taunt). That must mean in the end that in Pokemon X/Y MUST BE Pokes with their dream ability (e.g. Espeon with MagicBounce) or Pokes with Prankster + Substitute if you don't use Whimsicott in your team.

    Btw I finally broke my old Doubles Record which is standing on 210 now.

    [​IMG]


    I had an crazy battle in fight 208#

    Turn 1:
    Walrein + Yanmega vs Togekiss + Bronzong
    Togekiss Protect --> Yanmega AncientPower on Togekiss --> Protect
    Walrein SheerCold on Bronzong --> Bronzong K.O'ed

    Turn 2:
    Walrein + Yanmega vs Togekiss + Dusnkoir
    Yanmega used AncientPower on Togekiss --> Togekiss Sash
    Walrein used SheerCold --> missed
    Dusnkoir used SeimsicToss on Walrein --> missed
    Togekiss used Endeavor on Walrein

    Turn 3:
    Walrein + Yanmega vs Togekiss + Dusknoir
    Togekiss Protect --> Yanmega used AncientPower on Togekiss --> Protect
    Walrein used Rest
    Dusknoir used SeismicToss on Yanmega

    Turn 4:
    Walrein + Yanmega vs Snorlax + Dusknoir
    Yanmega used AncientPower on Snorlax --> all stat boost
    Walrein used SleepTalk --> SheerCold --> missed

    Turn 5:
    Yanmega + Walrein vs Snorlax + Dusknoir
    Yanmega used SilverWind on Snorlax --> CH'ed + all stat boost
    Walrein used SleepTalk --> SheerCold --> missed
    Snorlax used IcePunch on Yanmega --> Yanmega K.O'ed

    Turn 6:
    Walrein + Rampardos vs Snorlax + Togekiss
    Togekiss used Protect --> Rampardos used ThunderPunch on Togekiss --> Protect
    Walrein used SleepTalk--> failed
    Snorlax used Selfdestruct --> Togekiss Protect, Walrein + Rampardos K.O'ed --> Snorlax K.O'ed

    Turn 7:
    Machamp vs Dusknoir + Togekiss
    Togekiss Protect (again and didn't fail) --> Machamp used StoneEdge --> Protect
    Dusknoir used SeismicToss on Machamp

    Turn 8:
    Machamp vs Togekiss + Dusknoir
    Machamp used StoneEdge --> Togekiss K.O.
    Dusknoir used SeismiscToss on Machamp

    Turn 9:
    Machamp vs Dusknoir
    Machamp used StoneEdge on Dunskoir
    Dusknoir used SeismicToss on Machamp

    Turn 10:
    Machamp vs Dusknoir
    Machamp used StoneEdge (CH wouldn't have killed me)
    Dusknoir used SeimsicToss --> Machamp K.O.
    ---> Battle won

    I had another battle with Bronzong which had 3 times QuickClaw in a row and a Lapras which avoided my attack twice a other battle Lapras avoided 3 times in a row my attacks....uff.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Hi DrDimentio, I remember you! You had some pretty good streaks going.

    As for Suicune/Volcarona core, that sounds like something I have done before... Let's see, Oh here it is! But heh, that was not a very high streak (only 84, with Flamethrower / HP Rock / QD/ Sub Volcarona). I did much better with the Stoutland-Dragonite-Volcarona team where I use a mono-attack Volcarona with Rest and got 276 streak. (Yay links work!)

    That was before BW2 though. With BW2, Volcarona can learn Roost, so it might be ok to try out QD / Bug Buzz / Sub / Roost. BUT, I think Rest Volcarona is not necssarily worse, because Rest Volcarona will still beat all Sound proof pokemon from Rest PP Stalling (if I remember correctly), whereas Roost will be a bit annoying trying to PP stall, though you might be able to get away with just PP stalling opponent out of attacks (or just out of attacks that will hurt Suicune) and then switching to Suicune to set up. (Sound Proof doesn't happen that often.)

    EDIT: @Miscellaneous: For some reason I was assuming you were going to have a crippler lead, followed by Suicune/Volcarona. That was what my mono Volcarona was useful for. If you are not using a crippler, Volcarona definitely will have a much harder time setting up, and you'd also have to especially account for things like Tbolt-Surf Starmie (and probably a bunch of others) making it very risky for either to set up...

    That said, if you are using a crippler, Suicune/Volc would probably work fine, but I do like Dragonite/Volc better (or Dragonite/Suicune) just because Dragonite's mono attack is better than Volcarona's and Suicune's. If you aren't using a crippler but still want to use Volcarona, then I'd just suggest no sub, and use two attacks + QD + Roost. I like Fire + Rock, but Psychic + Bug is ok, or Bug Buzz + Rock is ok (but Fire + Rock > Bug + Rock).

    There is also Giga Drain (like Fire + Grass + Sub + QD ... and not have roost because giga drain is like a recovery move... sort of?) in BW2, but I am doubtful about its effectiveness, because Set Up move + Sub + 2 attack 'mons usually only work with a crippler lead, and that Rest/Roost/recovery move is useful only because there sometimes is the need to use those moves during set up, so that was why if you are going to have two attacks, it doesn't really matter most of the time if either of the moves recover HP. Anyway, I've talked enough.

    EDIT2:

    OK, my single streak came to an end with 82 streak (with my choice team). It was a bit unfortunate, because I was hoping to lose to something where I had no chance of beating. Instead I lost to a bit of minor hax. Heh. O well.

    I don't even remember what the first pokemon was. Woops. Well, here was how it went:

    Turn 1: Starmie Surf. Unknown Pokemon did some damage to Starmie.
    Turn 2: Starmie Surf KO. Braviary in.
    Turn 3: (Didn't want to get KO'd by Brave Bird.) Landorus-T switch in. Braviary Gem Brave Bird for lots of damages (Landorus-T in low yellow).
    Turn 4: Landorus-T Rockslide miss. Braviary Rockslide KOs Landorus-T. Starmie in.
    Turn 5: (figured it was better to be locked into Surf). Starmie Surf KOs. Gyarados in (Dang...)
    Turn 6: Switch to Togekiss. Gyarados DD.
    Turn 7: Togekiss Trick. Gyarados DD.
    Turn 8: Gyarados Stone Edge KO Togekiss. Starmie in.
    Turn 9: Gyarados Stone Edge KO Starmie.

    If only I locked into Psyshock or Thunderbolt or even explode with Landorus-T.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  24. acreland

    acreland

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    Nothing great to report but I thought I'd put it out there anyway (at least it's not Durant...). BW2 Super Singles 127 with the following team:

    Salamence @Lum
    Intimidate
    Adamant
    252Atk, 4Def, 252Spd
    Lv.50 Stats: 162-204-92-112-98-149

    -Sub
    -DD
    -EQ
    -DC

    Pretty standard, below average IV's. Didn't sweep too often but Intimidate was awesome; Suicune laughed at a lot of stuff it shouldn't have especially if I double switched.


    Suicune @ Chesto
    Pressure
    Bold
    252HP, 252Def, 4Spd
    Lv.50 Stats: 202-82-174-108-121-101

    -Sub
    -CM
    -Rest
    -Scald

    Again standard with crap IV's (I don't have the patience to RNG). Chesto > Lefties same reasoning as NoCheese gave in an earlier post. The one quick wake up and Sub stall often gets rid of the only move that can actually hurt 'Cune.


    Breloom @ Sash
    Technician
    Adamant
    252Atk, 252Spd (4 in either HP or Def, can't remember)
    Lv.50 Stats: 121-200-88-61-73-122

    -Spore
    -SD
    -BS
    -MP

    Yay for Breloom. Plus it's IV's aren't too crap. I mainly picked it because it's something different and does well against most Water and Ice types that 'Cune and the dragon can struggle with. It was fun using 'Loom in the Subway but if your planning on it there are a few things you should know: 1) Assume any Pokemon you Spore will wake up the next turn so it's more of a last ditch thing than actually useful most of the time; don't rely on it. 2) Assume BS will only hit twice with no crits. The Subway is dick that way. 3) SE may seem useful but in earlier runs I found 'Loom was either too slow to hit the intended targets or it would miss. SD allowed it to plow through a couple teams with MP, go with SD.

    I'll post a pic if anyone feels proof is necessary.
    Stellar likes this.
  25. Jokethe1

    Jokethe1

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Just a few questions about your Stoutland, Volcorona, Dragonite team. How would you handle against Trick Pokes (Latios/Latias)?. Do you use SandAttack or Flash on them? I'm asking that because if you face a Latias/Latios and you don't know the set of them do you use Flash do get more misses i.e. against the physical ones or Snarl for the special ones? What would be your oppinion in that situation? I know the streak is a while ago but I was just thinking about these Pokes.

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