Bounsweet, Steenee, Tsareena Discussion

[JBC]

Hmmm...interesting...

Not sure what to say. It's too all-around, which doesn't always fare good. 120 Atk is pretty good, but its defenses are not outstanding, and 72 Spe is too high for Trick Room and too low to be good. I guess it could be interesting with a Choice Scarf. With max Atk and max Spe, along with an Adamant nature, it tops out at 372 Atk and 364 Spe, which while isn't great, is definitely usable. It doesn't have great STAB, but gets Play Rough and High Jump Kick, which is good. I'm thinking UU-RU, but strong potential to go up or down.

EDIT: It also be used an offensive spinner, which I forgot to mention, which I think could really cause it to have some viability. I'll still keep my tier prediction.

 

[HauntedPumpkin]

I am sad that yet again a Pokemon's low Speed kills it's viability in the higher tiers. Like if she had gotten like 100+ Speed she'd be really good for at least UU even with the mono Grass typing.

I was also hoping for Blaze Kick, but I can see why they didn't give her that. And High Jump Kick/Rapid Spin more than make up for it, honestly.

I don't see her going that far with that Speed, but it's not all too bad I feel.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

I think giving her Synthesis and Trop Kick is a must, then a defensive set with a ton of HP, some defensive investment, and attack.

Trop Kick/Synthesis/ Rapid Spin or Aromatherapy/High Jump Kick or U-Turn seems like a good way to go. You could even give her an Assault Vest. It's a shame U-Turn barely improves her coverage because it would normally be a must on this type of semi-bulky but strong Pokemon

 

[Snou]

An Assault Veist set would be really interesting with 120 atk, 98 Spdef and its access to Rapid Spin and Tropical Kick that lowers the attack O_O

 

[zferolie]

I think giving her Synthesis and Trop Kick is a must, then a defensive set with a ton of HP, some defensive investment, and attack.

Trop Kick/Synthesis/ Rapid Spin or Aromatherapy/High Jump Kick or U-Turn seems like a good way to go. You could even give her an Assault Vest. It's a shame U-Turn barely improves her coverage because it would normally be a must on this type of semi-bulky but strong Pokemon

Maybe I play too much BS and IN game, but I rarely use Rapid spin. Is it worth losing an attack like Play rough for it? If so I'll be using Trop kick, Synthesis, Rapid Spin, High Jump Kick

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Which four moves would Assault Vest Tsareena want to run out of Trop Kick, Play Rough, High Jump Kick, U-turn, and Rapid Spin?

I know that Payback is definitely not worth using.

 

[Goodra]

Which four moves would Assault Vest Tsareena want to run out of Trop Kick, Play Rough, High Jump Kick, U-turn, and Rapid Spin?

I know that Payback is definitely not worth using.

Probably something like

Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Royal Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant
- Trop Kick
- Play Rough
- High Jump Kick
- Rapid Spin/U-turn

Rapid Spin if you have no spinner/defogger or U-Turn if you do and want a bulky pivot

 

[AzureRaptor]

Probably something like

Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Royal Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant
- Trop Kick
- Play Rough
- High Jump Kick
- Rapid Spin/U-turn

Rapid Spin if you have no spinner/defogger or U-Turn if you do and want a bulky pivot

I'm not really sure if High Jump Kick would really be desired on Tsareena over something like U-Turn with you could run alongside Rapid Spin. I just don't know if the risk of damage to your spinner would be worth overlooking.

 

[zferolie]

I'm not really sure if High Jump Kick would really be desired on Tsareena over something like U-Turn with you could run alongside Rapid Spin. I just don't know if the risk of damage to your spinner would be worth overlooking.

High jump kick lets you hit steels which otherwise completely wall you

 

[MemeMeme Island]

The more I think about it, the more I'm seeing this in OU. Immunity to priority, Rapid Spin, Aromatherapy, and a decent Attack stat all in one is just something I don't see being any lower than OU at all, It does have crap speed but I'm sure that with some Defense/Speed investment this can be worked around slightly, and the main thing here is that Tsareena does what no previous has dreamed of doing. I see it being slightly better than Bruxish but Bruxish will still have viability. I also think that Tsareena will be really good on Sand, as Aqua Jet is one of the best checks to already-sweeping-in-sand-Excadrill. And I also see Tsareena being on a multitude of other offense cores as well alongside Bruxish.

 

[Exor]

I'm glad this thing ended up decent unlike the vast majority of the other alola mons I like. I'm guessing UU with decent OU viability. The typing is a mixed bag and I don't think its stats are quite good enough, it is quite bulky but it's not a brick wall and trop kick's low bp means that despite its big attack it's only doing impressive neutral damage with hjk (though the secondary effect is really nice and should help it spin against slower mons). I don't really know what set I'd run, it has really bad 4MSS, with aromatherapy, synthesis, rapid spin, hjk, trop kick, and u-turn all being extremely appealing, and even play rough is good for 2HKOing any support mega sabae trying to block your spin.

 

[Pipotchi]

I just dont see a rapid spin setup working. Its bad coverage with hjk and trop kick against common and new ghost types like gengar, chandelure, doublade, gourgeist, decidueye, dhelmise, mega sableye etc. Gengar might be nerfed but it is still a fast and powerful attacker which may find its way into the higher tiers. Either way, the low damage output from trop kicks effort to bolster physical defense is all a bit clunky when running a rapid spin set and doesnt really do much to actually pressure a lot of ghosts. It has less than a 50% chance to 2hko physdef Jellicent and no chance of 2hkoing physdef Palossand with a jolly nature and 252 atk evs, and it is threatened in return by all will-o-wisps. running aromatherapy over hjk does not do much to alleviate its problems. Obviously spinners with bad ghost matchups can still run the move successfully (see forretress), but usually they should also offer a lot more utility or pressure to the opponent. Sadly it doesnt make as full use of its ability as it could with higher speed and it doesnt offer anything else in the upper tiers we havent seen before.

Sorry but I think its a Pangoro situation. Cute concept on paper, and some attacking potential, but its ability, stats, typing and movepool dont exactly line up

 

[November Blue]

A Choice Scarf set is the way to go, IMO. I think people are seriously underestimating how powerful a priority-immune Scarfer is.

Tsareena @ Choice Scarf
Queenly Majesty
Adamant

Trop Kick
High Jump Kick
Play Rough
U-turn / Rapid Spin / Aromatherapy

A fast physical attacker with some offensive utility thrown in.


252+ Atk Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 164-194 (54.1 - 64%)
252+ Atk Tsareena Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 224-264 (70.2 - 82.7%)
252+ Atk Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 258-306 (79.8 - 94.7%)
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 280-330 (72.5 - 85.4%)


It's pretty powerful. Has a decent amount of utility with the -1 Attack from Trop Kick, Queenly Majesty, and fast U-turn, Rapid Spin, or Aromatherapy.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

A Choice Scarf set is the way to go, IMO. I think people are seriously underestimating how powerful a priority-immune Scarfer is.

Considering the first reply about Tepu Lele being Scarf+Psychic Terrain is awesome, no; people aren't underestimating scarf+priority immune

I want to use this thing ingame though. No more Protect/Detect and Quick Attacks!

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

A Choice Scarf set is the way to go, IMO. I think people are seriously underestimating how powerful a priority-immune Scarfer is.

Tsareena @ Choice Scarf
Queenly Majesty
Adamant

Trop Kick
High Jump Kick
Play Rough
U-turn / Rapid Spin / Aromatherapy

A fast physical attacker with some offensive utility thrown in.


252+ Atk Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 164-194 (54.1 - 64%)
252+ Atk Tsareena Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 224-264 (70.2 - 82.7%)
252+ Atk Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 258-306 (79.8 - 94.7%)
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 280-330 (72.5 - 85.4%)


It's pretty powerful. Has a decent amount of utility with the -1 Attack from Trop Kick, Queenly Majesty, and fast U-turn, Rapid Spin, or Aromatherapy.

I'm very sold on a Scarf set.

With a Scarf and an Adamant nature, she hits 364 speed, which allows her to JUST tie with +Speed, Scarf Tyranitar , but also outspeed the 115 speed tier (Starmie, Azelf, Raikou, Mega Absol/Houndoom), which is really cool. I feel like U-Turn for the chip damage and switch momentum is an absolute must, and will be what you go for most of the time, though Trop Kick is nifty because if it's something physical, you can immediately switch to a counter and have your opponent already be weaker than before (Dragonite, Scizor, Landorus-T, Charizard, or Mega Metagross--the turn many of them would take to setup wlll be spent regaining what they lost).

On the other hand, Aromatherapy or Rapid Spin with the Scarf set just feel like instant suicide compared to U-Turn. Unlike Scarf Excadrill, Tsareena doesn't have a ton of resistances or the means to just slaughter any spinblocker that comes in with Ground, Steel, or Rock coverage, but she does seem to have a very cool, flexible niche all the same, and just enough coverage to pull it off. She's one of the only Grass Pokemon in recent memory that can even deal damage to Dragon-Types outside of Hidden Power...

STILL, Knock Out, Blaze Kick, a Ground move, or anything for Poison-Types would be very welcome.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

I am impressed. A grass type that can do major damage to steel and dragon types. Also has rapid spin for utility. I am definitively going to try it out. A little slow though

 

[Pikachu315111]

I just got done with Fomantis & Lurantis who turned out an okay Grass-type. Not very fast, high Attack, slighty bulky. So let's see what the other mono Grass-type of this gen is like: not very fast, high Attack, slighty bulky. Because GameFreak.

Okay, they're not exactly the same. Tsareena's Speed is in a dead zone, too slow normally but too fast for Trick Room. It's not going to focus much on Special Attack so has a higher Attack stat and more bulk. So you take some and you lose some.

Since it has a kicking gimmick its a bit limited on what moves it learns. It sort of needed Trop Kick or a STAB and it's okay. Other moves it can get is High Jump Kick, Acrobatics, Payback, and U-turn (plus the utility use). It has utility with Rapid Spin, Teeter Dance, and Aromatherapy. Egg Moves are also good including Grass Whistle, Synthesis, and Play Rough (and fun with Acupressure).

Odd it doesn't learn Jump Kick, Double Kick, or Mega Kick; though I don't think a Grass-type would be learning Blaze Kick. Anyway, not sure what to think of it. I can see it having both offensive and supportive roles, probably the latter as I can see it being on a team just for Queenly Majesty plus Rapid Spin and Aromatherapy support. Though if you need a Grass-type in-game it's not a bad choice, debating whether this or Fomantis/Lurantis.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

According to Nexus, it looks like Dazzling/Queenly Majesty block priority and status attacks that target an enemy on the field. There is not anything conclusive on self-targetting status moves as a whole yet!

Still, blocking Prankster Status, Fake Out, and the other attacking moves is MORE than I thought it would do.

 

[CommandThrower]

We just got confirmation that Queenly Majesty negates ALL PRIORITY.

This includes non-attacking moves like Protect, Helping Hand, and Wide Guard as well as anything with priority boosted from abilities like Triage or Prankster.

If this is the case, then our queen has the potential to revolutionize VGC, doubles, triples, and battle royale even.

Queenly Majesty blocking any and all priority moves is really good. With that in mind, it sort of makes sense why Tsareena has lackluster speed. That way, only faster Pokemon have what is takes to outspeed Tsareena. If you're slower, then no priority can save you.

 

[Retro64]

We just got confirmation that Queenly Majesty negates ALL PRIORITY.

This includes non-attacking moves like Protect, Helping Hand, and Wide Guard as well as anything with priority boosted from abilities like Triage or Prankster.

If this is the case, then our queen has the potential to revolutionize VGC, doubles, triples, and battle royale even.

It doesn't block prankster haze and psychic terrain doesn't block attacks like prankster calm mind. I seriously doubt it blocks protect unless Gamefreak wanted this Pokemon to be necessary to run in VGC.

 

[TheMantyke]

We just got confirmation that Queenly Majesty negates ALL PRIORITY.

This includes non-attacking moves like Protect, Helping Hand, and Wide Guard as well as anything with priority boosted from abilities like Triage or Prankster.

If this is the case, then our queen has the potential to revolutionize VGC, doubles, triples, and battle royale even.

Please be careful with this stuff. We don't have any confirmation on the specific interaction between Protect. QM / Dazzling likely don't block anything self targetting. This explains the behavior with Haze. I had a conversation with Nexus after reading your post to confirm this is the likely behavior.

Hide

Nex - Today at 12:59 PM
pretyt sure it doesn't block self targtting moves
Uselesscrab - Today at 12:59 PM
^
though some people started saying "well it just blocks everything that would be bounced by magic bounce" which is not true either
it blocks heart swap
which is not bounced
Nex - Today at 12:59 PM
same as psychic terrain doesn't block prankster calm mind
Nex - Today at 1:00 PM
like really people draw some conclusions not everything has to be tested

Please don't take a reply from someone in the research thread as confirmation unless they've tested it themselves. The person that responded to you jumped from point A to point C on this. What was meant by the information in the OP was (I'm fairly sure) were priority status moves. I.E. Prankster Thunder Wave, Swagger, etc.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Please be careful with this stuff. We don't have any confirmation on the specific interaction between Protect. QM / Dazzling likely don't block anything self targetting. This explains the behavior with Haze. I had a conversation with Nexus after reading your post to confirm this is the likely behavior.

Hide

Nex - Today at 12:59 PM
pretyt sure it doesn't block self targtting moves
Uselesscrab - Today at 12:59 PM
^
though some people started saying "well it just blocks everything that would be bounced by magic bounce" which is not true either
it blocks heart swap
which is not bounced
Nex - Today at 12:59 PM
same as psychic terrain doesn't block prankster calm mind
Nex - Today at 1:00 PM
like really people draw some conclusions not everything has to be tested

Please don't take a reply from someone in the research thread as confirmation unless they've tested it themselves. The person that responded to you jumped from point A to point C on this. What was meant by the information in the OP was (I'm fairly sure) were priority status moves. I.E. Prankster Thunder Wave, Swagger, etc.

I wanted visual confirmation but I had not see anyone refute it. I assumed if it was not the case, someone would have said something sooner.

Can someone answer that question in full and test it out at some point then?

I am a little saddened and embarrassed that false information was not refuted earlier and that it does not look like this is something that will be tested later. It has been a prevalent question on a lot of people's minds.

 

[LucarioMega]

How Steene evolve into Tsareena?

 

[DuplexBeGreat]

How Steene evolve into Tsareena?

Learn Stomp and then level up. It learns Stomp in the late 20s.

 

[LucarioMega]

Learn Stomp and then level up. It learns Stomp in the late 20s.

Well thats weird. Anyway thanks a lot.