Project Break This Team (Week 42)

[Martin]

Just looking at the build it looks like it's very reliant on Garchomp to consistently deal with Ferrothorn, who can come in on 4 members of the team, although it needs to be careful coming in on Politoed due to Scald potentially burning and being able to fire off T-wave mostly risk-free or being able to dent Garchomp with either Gyro Ball or Power Whip (the former almost always 2HKOs after rocks whereas T-wave+Power Whip really gives this team a headache in general) or if it comes in expecting T-wave. That said I think that if you can keep the rain up consistently it will eventually be overwhelmed, although I think that carrying Surf>Scald on Kingdra makes this unnecesssarily difficult in general due to it not being able to increase the pressure on Ferrothorn with a burn, and I think that the headache that it causes if it can spread T-wave and seeds around enough may often be enough for it's teammates to then be able to finish it off once it's checked them for long enough. If anyone wants to partner up with me later to confirm or debunk this (I can't now but I'll probably be available to test at around 18:30 or 19:00 BST) feel free to hmu in PM or VM.

 

[Random Passerby]

The strengths of the Rain HO has already been mentioned by Infernal and CoC so I'll just touch on something I observed.

I have not played against this team yet but weather teams biggest drawback was the fact that they need to preserve their weather setter to gain an advantage. What this means is that it may be possible to exploit the dependence by using a strong hitter like Mega Medicham or Trapper like Dugtrio / Banded Tyranitar, the latter also removing the previous Rain which the Swift Swimmers need. Mega Alakazam also trolls this team with Trace Swift Swim and might be able to finish the team off if Scizor and Kabutops has fainted.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Im available thursday after work for partnering up. If you need someone sooner Try Hitting up Sobi, Infernal or Random Passerby. Bludz is a nice guy to but he's very busy Right now. Hope you

For example, are there any consequences to using Mega Scizor over Ferro as the steel like many other rain builds do? Do any notable weaknesses pop up because the team forgoes using common rain members like Latias and Mega Swamp?

By forgoeing Ferro the Team has Vitually no answers to absorbing thunderwave which as mentioned is a huge flaw in the team nor can it spike to apply further pressure but in return It gains a more reliable answer to Clefable, Opposing Lati@s and the ability to end games early with SD bullet punch which in my view is a very fair trade off. Cant say much for latias as Ive literraly never faced a lati rain team but on paper it weakens the match up vs opposing weather but I can not say for certain. Electrics are already beatable so thats a null point. Swampert isn't really a huge loss as it takes up the mega slot and is totally useless outside rain I find. However 1 thing it could do which others cant was switch into T-wave and without it stuff like Clef/Whimi/Klefki/Rotom/Thundo can spam yellow magic with ease.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

The strengths of the Rain HO has already been mentioned by Infernal and CoC so I'll just touch on something I observed.

I have not played against this team yet but weather teams biggest drawback was the fact that they need to preserve their weather setter to gain an advantage. What this means is that it may be possible to exploit the dependence by using a strong hitter like Mega Medicham or Trapper like Dugtrio / Banded Tyranitar, the latter also removing the previous Rain which the Swift Swimmers need. Mega Alakazam also trolls this team with Trace Swift Swim and might be able to finish the team off if Scizor and Kabutops has fainted.

Forget about Ala and for that matter Scarf Garde (Specifically Utility-Trace Scarf) whom actually has legit use vs this team. Neither can auto Win due to scizor but Take it out and suddenly this team is struggling. I like your idea of Trapping Poliotoad. Using T-Tar would be risky but given we no-longer have goth it is definatly the best option to do so as its bulky as hell

 

[Martin]

Cant say much for latias as Ive literraly never faced a lati rain team but on paper it weakens the match up vs opposing weather but I can not say for certain.

Latias rain is really solid because it provides hazard removal that isn't Kabutops as well as Healing Wish and an option to blanket electrics that come in on Toed or Zor which doesn't get bopped by HP Ice, but if you lack a T-wave absorber that isn't Politoed (think Swampert, Swift Swim Seismitoad etc.) it's not usually worth it over Chompsky.

Speaking of HP Ice actually, FlamingVictini when u were building this team did you ever consider running Yache on Chomp to allow it to check them better as well as to stop them volting/bolting every time they get in on Poli or Zor? Not so much of a suggestion as me asking out of interest more to know the kinds of thought processes you were having when building.

 

[dk]

It's 4 am where I am and can't sleep, so if anyone wants to hit me up for replays I'd be glad to help :x

 

[FlamingVictini]

Martin. I felt no need for yache when I could just use sash and be able to live an hp ice regardless - for a team like this, handling elecs means running them over with your swift swim sweepers and using chomp to either damage or pivot around them. I personally think this is a bit more of a style of play thing and adjusting to the meta; at the time when I used this team, I had a ton of success with this highly offensive variant, to the point where I didn't even want to try ferro latias versions (which aren't bad, just play differently).

Sometimes, for example, when ppl lead with an elec I can't ohko as I lead chomp, I would be lazy and get up rocks, switch to toad, switch back to chomp, and then switch to my kingdra (or kabutops), allowing me to get up rain for several turns, not lose a mon, and threaten to start ohkoing things. Of course, there is risk management here. It may be better to attack with chomp to put it in range for ajet from kabu outside rain, or may be better to not risk toad (don't risk it vs lo thundurus, but otherwise it technically can tank a tbolt from raikou/manec and usually not be in range of rocks, even if the toad isn't sdef). This all depends on how weak your opponent is to rain and also relies on prediction, which is why other ppl may prefer latias or ferro versions more. I personally am in love with scizor because you can take damage early on to spam uturn and get in kingdra usually and just blow your opponent to the next galaxy. Another way to handle priority twave is to just sack one rain sweeper to remove the twave user for the other sweeper, or just weaken and outprioritize with ajet. Sciz can also absorb twaves to get off slow uturns, and then roost up and sweep late game (ex: I played a game during my run against KratosMana, where he used omastar megachomp ferro rain, and while I struggled to break ferrothorn with my swift swim sweepers (yes, low kick kabu is an option if you don't fear spikes), all I did in the game was weaken or remove anything that could stop scizor, and then swept with it lategame by forcing in and abusing ferrothorn as set-up fodder, cleaning up his last 4 mons or something).

Surf > Scald because I rarely ever click hydro pump (only when i absolutely need the power), and I generally prefer the extra power on surf as it really helps break and clean sweep teams (I also don't get burns often enough). I would never drop surf, and dropping hydro or dpulse seems odd (some ppl like draco meteor better there but I like dpulse for cleaning), and ice beam is too good as a coverage option to hit stuff like alt or grasses when you don't want to click a water move in rain or a dragon move.

 

[Martin]

Me and Sobi had a game earlier (I forgot to save the replay sowwy :S) and, while Sobi ended up winning with FV's team we both agreed that Gastrodon was a pain for it to deal with. This was the set I brought:

Set

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Calm / Sassy Nature
(IVs: 0 Atk (Earth Power only)
- Scald
- Earth Power / Earthquake
- Toxic / Ice Beam
- Recover

The listed EVs are specifically to take 2 Kingdra Dragon Pulses from full health (I overshot it by 8 EVs to hit a jump point), allowing you to spam Recover against it. More SpD can be run to take it after rocks too (84 calm does this 100% of the time, but 80 is slightly more efficient as it hits a SpD jump point and it needs absolute max twice in a row to net the 2HKO anyway) and it'd probably be better, but tl;dr Storm Drain allows it to come in on Politoed, Kingdra and Kabutops with ease, it is specially bulky enough to stall out rain v.s. Torn (180 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 32+ SpD Gastrodon: 203-239 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery; 180 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Gastrodon: 191-226 (44.8 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).

After the game we were doing a bit of theorising too; I played Ferrothorn v. poorly there (not helped by the fact that I missed the only move I was able to get off in the entire game) and basically what needs to be tested next with Ferrothorn is whether 2 attacks+T-wave+Leech Seed/Spikes fares relative to 1 attack+T-wave+Spikes+Seeds. Being able to pressure Poli coming in is extremely useful and being able to improve longevity with seeds is also big, but at the same time I think that the extra power behind Gyro Ball is very useful for stopping Chomper just using you for free SDs while saccing Power Whip stops you being able to actually beat Politoed before Scald burns.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

You guys may now post cores. Thanks for all the discussion so far. Feel free to make further posts if you wish

 

[kek123]

+

sets

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Belly Drum

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The general idea of the core is that manectric will do a lot of damage in the early to mid game volt switch around and eventually azu will be able to late game sweep or manectric will sweep late if politoad dies also the core work well because manectric is very good a weakening the team as said and the only mon the can switch in to any move of manectric and revenge kill is kingdra and azu can set up on kingdra there's really not much else to say other than both mon do really well against the team and of some pretty good synergy
also the azu is 228 jolly speed to out speed scizor so azu aqua jet goes before bullet punch

thoughts ON ferro vs team

Lot of people were saying that this rain team get destroyed by ferro but it really doesn't also LO torn-t super power does a tone to ferro garchomp does pretty well versus it and also it sett up fodder for scizor even though it u-turn over bug bite
+6 16+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 137-162 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery as shown + 6 bp does a lot and ferro cant really touch scizor , if any thing id say ferro is average vs FV rain team like it not all that its been hyped up to be against it. As well as the thing is said to counter it not really that good on switching into them 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 135-160 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Infernal]

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Rest

Using replays to explain the core, thank you Random Passerby and CoC for testing with me!

Replay 1

• This is vs. Random Passerby. I lead with Thund-I because it's able to pressure every member. I HP Ice the Chomp lead as SR is used. From there, I decided to use Thunderbolt on the predicted Politoed switch in. In two turns only, Thund-I ended up bringing down two members to near death, demonstrating the pressure it exerts from the get go. From there, I HP Ice on the likely Chomp sac and Kingdra proceeds to come in afterwards to force Thund-I out.
• To expand on why I played the way I did with Thund-I, here is my rationale: Assuming Chomp stayed in to die vs. HP Ice, Politoed would likely come in afterwards to activate rain. With Chomp dead however, the team would no longer have an electric immunity and be forced to take a huge blow to Thunderbolt with another member. I figured Random Passerby would try avoiding losing so much momentum by 1. pivoting on HP Ice by going to Politoed, 2. going back to Chomp afterwards to sac, and 3. then bring Kingdra in to force Thund-I to switch. Going for the aggressive play on my end had huge payoff and shifted momentum to my side.
  
• After Kingdra comes in, I switch to Amoonguss to see the move it'd use and end up eating an Ice Beam. I then safely switch to Manaphy and use CM as Torn-T comes in, ultimately winning the 1v1. From there, we dance around until I bring Thund-I in again on turn 13 to paralyze Kingdra. Once Kingdra was paralyzed, Manaphy was free to come in and close the game.

Replay 2

• Although Manaphy didn't get to shine in this match, this replay does demonstrate how well Thund-I performs here. After Thund-I did its damage early on, I was able to switch around between my defensive core and maneuver around the team rather comfortably.

While the plays made in the replays may not have been perfect/ideal on either end, the take home message is how heavily Thund-I can pressure this team from turn 1 with its coverage and priority Thunder Wave. I feel like replay 1 in particular is a really good example because once Thund-I leads, the team is immediately pressured and has to predict very carefully. Assuming the team predicts incorrectly, Thund-I will end up doing big damage and costing the other team tons of tempo. Its ability to paralyze the team's rain sweeper in Kingdra was also notable, allowing me to bring in Manaphy to CM up and clean house. Manaphy has the bulk to take hits from this team while setting up CMs and abusing rain with Hydration, Rest, and Scald. When Thund-I + Manaphy are backed by a solid defensive core to maneuver around the team's offenses, I think the core will generally do a good job breaking the team.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

reserving Azu + Thundorous

 

[Creator of Chaos]

+

Sets

Hide

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave

Explanation: Overall this pair apply huge pressure to the team just by appearing at preview and only clever doubles early or prediction will allow the rain team to beat this pair and Once dmg starts to build up even that luxury vanish's. Azumarill Alone does Huge dmg and while it doesn't enjoy scald it can switch atleast once into any of the water cores attacks and Kill something in return. It also exploits the opposing teams rain and makes its own attacks hit harder and once in Pretty much nothing short of Bulky Zor or Garchomp holding its sash can really threaten it back. Often times you'll be forced to sack or gamble to get the chance. This is where Thundo Comes In. Outspeeding both and resisting ZORs main stab It threatens the team in and out of the rain. with LO T-bolt and while spreading Para to the team under rain. More often then not garchomp will be forced to lead just so Thundo cant start spaming paralysis which is also something you can exploit.

Pretty much once one of these 2 get in something is either dying or getting crippled and while neither can auto win on there own. The pressure they apply togethor with support should be more then enough to break this team.

Replays
Me Vs Infernal
Replay 1 - I predict a Chomp lead and counter with starmie but get it horribly wrong which puts me on the back foot. Im however able to regain my footing over the next few turns and apply some counter pressure. While thundo does little here its constantly something the oppenent has to think about. Eventually scizor is lured in and killed by Jirachi allowing Azu which this team utterly hates to destroy it and tho I need to sack a few things due to choice band It gets the job done.

Replay 2 - Despite Losing due to my poor uses of Garchomp and Jirachi ( and Infernal is really good) This replay demonstrates thundo a little better who is able to apply para pressure and threaten to kill anything that comes in. Still a loss but it shows what these 2 do

Me Vs Random Passerby

Replay 1 - Due to the presence of thundo I rightly predict he would lead with Chomp so I counter lead with gardevoir. Once Chomp is taken down there is very little random can do to stop Para spam and eventually sacks zor to kill it which simply allows azu to clean

Replay 2 - Overpredicting vs my starmie pushed random out of the game early which allows Azumarill to do huge dmg early before thundorous ended the game

 

[FlamingVictini]

the elec + annoying to kill water is fun and all, but give me some variety to choose from :(

 

[dk]

the elec + annoying to kill water is fun and all, but give me some variety to choose from :(

Something something I said it first something something

Lowkey, I think that weakness is huge enough to where I don't see why you wouldn't take advantage of it. Surprised there haven't been any T-Wave Ferro cores though.

 

[kek123]

Can just say I think there a little bit to much focus on replays like sorry if this is cruel but none of us here could play this team better than FlamingVictini and so beating some one with little to none experience with the team isnt proving much like i watch Infernal secound reaply and on the first run turn Creator of Chaos taunts thunderus like correct if i'm wrong but that was not the play when prankster mean all his none attacking move go first unless there some next level play i'm missing like why lead torn-t in the first place. Like if the game was against FV then it would be amazing evidence but none of the are.

I'm really sorry to complaining I'm loving the cores so far I just wanted to say this .Although maybe im just being a party pooper because i got no replays xD .And no hate to any one I mentioned your all awesome!

edit: replay are not bad but I think they shouldn't be the main focus

 

[Martin]

Played again and can confirm that if you don't play like dong like I did vs. Sobi Ferro gives this team trouble.

Sets

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Ferrothorn is a massive headache for this team. It resists water, dragon and rock and has enough bulk to take hits in the rain and use the 'mons for Spikes fodder. It annoys with Thunder Wave, Leech Seed and Power Whip too, being able to do a lot if it gets in against anything other than Garchomp. It needs to be careful of Scald burns though, and this is where Gastrodon comes in; it provides an immunity to water, is fat enough to consistently take on Dracoless Kingdra, has the defensive typing to cockblock Kabutops and sets up on a buttload of shit with Curse. It also takes advantage of the rain to gain Super Scald to severely pressure Scizor and Garchomp who try to take advantage of you with SD. All in all it's just really threatening in general.

Edit: Replay below (will add if/when i get more; will change from embed if I add more)

Replay 1 vs. kek123: Gastrodon sets up Kingdra and annihilates
[replay]ou-398010092[/replay]

I played other games with him where Ferrothorn gave him a huge headache but I played like crap, sacced my Talonflame by mistake (this was replaced by Keld) and got set up on by Zor

 

[Infernal]

kek123

In an ideal world, facing the person who made the team would be awesome because they will supposedly know how to use the team 'better' than anyone else could. Finding the chance to play versus a team's creator or someone near their skill level isn't always practical or realistic, nor necessary in my opinion.

Although replays aren't mandatory as the rules say, they are nice to show because they help people see whether the cores being suggested actually give the teams in question trouble in practice rather than on paper. There were many instances before where people would come up with cores on the fly and falsely claim the core destroyed a team without considering various other factors (consider the whole Weavile + Mage Manectric thing we experienced a while back). Replays are there to avoid this from happening and to help you see for yourself whether your idea works in practice. Since the replay "rule" was instated, I've personally ditched one or two core ideas I had before because they didn't work as well in practice as I figured they would in theory. Ultimately, that's why replays started being recommended - to help you justify and see for yourself whether your core works or doesn't.

Regarding FV's team, it's well known Electric types trouble the team regardless of how they can be played around through aggression and careful prediction. No matter who you are playing or how good they are, Pokemon like Thund-I, Ferro, and so on, will always give the team some degree of difficulty. The replays are there to show you how certain Pokemon can apply pressure on the opposing team and make their challenge of winning a harder task. There were certainly misplays made in the replays shown. However, I think it's easy to see how the suggested cores trouble the team in question regardless of any misplays made.

Personally, I think anyone with a decent grasp of the metagame can decipher whether or not a core works versus a team with no replays to refer to. Nonetheless, replays don't hurt. As long as they 1. display some semblance of how the core can trouble a given team, and 2. are used as a way for you to explain how your core functions versus a team, I think it's fine to show them to justify your submission. They aren't mandatory by any means, but having something to visually refer to is better than nothing at the end of the day. A balance between replays + explanation basically.

 

[kek123]

All meant is that I think that a little bit of explanation that is not based on how 1/2 game played would of been nice like what CoC did , I agree with every thing you said 100% but I think I miss represented what my main point was or you miss understood probably me representing my view badly . A bit explanation would been nice out side of explaining replays because not all game play out the same

Imo saying there a little bit much focus on replay does not need a replie detailing why replays are use full if I though they were not I would of said so , but I don't blame this on you as my end was poorly worded sorry.

 

[Random Passerby]

Well, all I can say here is my attempt on trapping Toed went horribly wrong. But yeah, I agree with Martin, Ferrothorn with another Water resist severely annoys this team ( I used Ferro + Jelli against CoC, Daddy's Kisses and Infernal and it worked to a degree ); just that those two can't really stomach hits from Torn-T so yeah. Mega Medi only works if Rain isn't up or Torn-T is dead, 2 very specific conditions so it's not that consistent against this team.

Annoying to kill waters like Azu is a pain but Specs Hydro does over 50% so yeah... it's manageable with sacking (though if you misplay or predicted wrongly, you will lose a mon).

 

[FlamingVictini]

Played again and can confirm that if you don't play like dong like I did vs. Sobi Ferro gives this team trouble.

Sets

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Ferrothorn is a massive headache for this team. It resists water, dragon and rock and has enough bulk to take hits in the rain and use the 'mons for Spikes fodder. It annoys with Thunder Wave, Leech Seed and Power Whip too, being able to do a lot if it gets in against anything other than Garchomp. It needs to be careful of Scald burns though, and this is where Gastrodon comes in; it provides an immunity to water, is fat enough to consistently take on Dracoless Kingdra, has the defensive typing to cockblock Kabutops and sets up on a buttload of shit with Curse. It also takes advantage of the rain to gain Super Scald to severely pressure Scizor and Garchomp who try to take advantage of you with SD. All in all it's just really threatening in general.

Edit: Replay below (will add if/when i get more; will change from embed if I add more)
Replay 1 vs. kek123: Gastrodon sets up Kingdra and annihilates
[replay]ou-398010092[/replay]

I played other games with him where Ferrothorn gave him a huge headache but I played like crap, sacced my Talonflame by mistake (this was replaced by Keld) and got set up on by Zor

Gastrodon is one reason to use toxic politoed! I only used hypnosis when I was feeling lucky and wanted a way to conveniently get free turns, both moves definitely have their benefits and downfalls. Glad to see something more unique that does well vs my team :D

 

[Martin]

Gastrodon is one reason to use toxic politoed! I only used hypnosis when I was feeling lucky and wanted a way to conveniently get free turns, both moves definitely have their benefits and downfalls. Glad to see something more unique that does well vs my team :D

Honestly if I just look at the build I think it'd probably benefit more from Toxic>Hypnosis tbh. The lack of SD on Kabutops combined with the fact that Scizor's bulk allows it to set up on a buttload anyway means that the potential setup opportunities it provides are pretty redundant, and you can gain free turns to get Kabu in safely through Encore anyway, making it feel mostly redundant. Also the moveslot can be rendered useless by saccing something with a poor rain matchup off to Hypnosis and allowing 'mons with a good matchup to give it a huge headache, and as you can see in the replay once Gastro gets a boost it can avoid pressure from Kabutops while pressuring Scizor who try to set up on it as it sleeps with Scald's high burn rate and doubled power (although it doesn't deal that much without a Storm Drain boost even under rain) because Hypnosis-->Scizor-->SD takes up 3 turns due to Gastro being slower--meaning that only max sleep turns gets pressured and even then it can just Recover off the +2 U-turn's damage anyway considering it does less than 50% after a Curse.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Voting is going up soon. This is your last chance to post cores. Dont disapoint me

 

[Martin]

Well, all I can say here is my attempt on trapping Toed went horribly wrong. But yeah, I agree with Martin, Ferrothorn with another Water resist severely annoys this team ( I used Ferro + Jelli against CoC, Daddy's Kisses and Infernal and it worked to a degree ); just that those two can't really stomach hits from Torn-T so yeah. Mega Medi only works if Rain isn't up or Torn-T is dead, 2 very specific conditions so it's not that consistent against this team.

Annoying to kill waters like Azu is a pain but Specs Hydro does over 50% so yeah... it's manageable with sacking (though if you misplay or predicted wrongly, you will lose a mon).

Honestly I've gotta give u credit about Jelly 'cause both Lefties and Colbur variants can consistently stomach hits from torn to force it out if a SpD variant is used+it is healthy, but the thing that I think gives Gastro the edge here is it's ability to take advantage of stuff to boost up making it much more threatening in general.

 

[FrozenCold]

Tangrowth + Rotom-W

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom-W walls majority of the team outside of Kingdra and Kabutops if Rotom-W is whittled down so there's AV Tangrowth to take on its threats. AV Tangrowth takes on Hydro in Rain and easily eats Dragon Pulse and can fire a leaf storm or can Knock Off on the possible Torn-T making the attacks less damaging. Rotom-W also gets free WoW since the team doesn't have a mon that absorbs burn.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-398412225 VS 3D: Choked dis game by not switching out heatran earlier on the sd scizor, but Tangrowth forced in scizor/ Torn-T and (if I played more aggressively) were free switches to rotom-w for a free volt/WoW.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-398429237 Vs Rumor: With Torn-T gone (guessing he thought it was something like defensive lando-t or sd or something) I was able to free to sack tran cause it helped stop torn-t's hurricane and it gave tangrowth and rotom-w an easier time taking care of the rest of the team.