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Project Break This Team (Week 42)
- Thread starter Creator of Chaos
- Start date
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-377395695 - First game with master sunny me playing the stall player. I'll admit Im not the best player but Double grounds absolutly smash's the team. Even downing one is not enough to save me.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-377396710 - 2nd Game this time I take to the offensive but do a few missplays so excuse my poor performance. He's forced to sack Venu to take out lando-T which evens the match. Im in control until I Miscalcualte Volconians Bulk and it survives 2+ adamant Brave Bird and He wins the 50/50 when I switch clef out instead of T-waving. After my play quality goes down as Im in a rush but points still stand
What I learnt
- Volconian is bulkier then I gave it credit for which Cost me Game 2
- Grounds and Phychics work well. Random Psychic coverage not so much since Its expected more these days. If he is to have any chance he must sack something vs them. So ground/Psychic + Healing wisher is a game winner
- I should have used garde instead of Diancie here even if it could be considered counter teaming
- Due to lacking reliable recovery even Calm mind Clefable can place huge pressure as was demonstrated by his series of complex plays needed to get around it. To the point if you wear down Chanseys Soft-boiled PP anyteam could potentially overcome it
- I suck at making double switchs lol
I'll post more later but those are immeadite to me. Master Sunny-EX waiting for your thought
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-377396710 - 2nd Game this time I take to the offensive but do a few missplays so excuse my poor performance. He's forced to sack Venu to take out lando-T which evens the match. Im in control until I Miscalcualte Volconians Bulk and it survives 2+ adamant Brave Bird and He wins the 50/50 when I switch clef out instead of T-waving. After my play quality goes down as Im in a rush but points still stand
What I learnt
- Volconian is bulkier then I gave it credit for which Cost me Game 2
- Grounds and Phychics work well. Random Psychic coverage not so much since Its expected more these days. If he is to have any chance he must sack something vs them. So ground/Psychic + Healing wisher is a game winner
- I should have used garde instead of Diancie here even if it could be considered counter teaming
- Due to lacking reliable recovery even Calm mind Clefable can place huge pressure as was demonstrated by his series of complex plays needed to get around it. To the point if you wear down Chanseys Soft-boiled PP anyteam could potentially overcome it
- I suck at making double switchs lol
I'll post more later but those are immeadite to me. Master Sunny-EX waiting for your thought
OK time for my bit of input!
Mega Venusaur when its Bold "checks" more stuff, but offensive MSaur generally checks the same things far more effectively without giving so many set up opportunities.
Team has a very bad matchup vs SD Ground types, to the point where I legit feel I lose from matchup.
No Steel type makes handling stuff like Latios/SD Chomp far harder than it should be.
Tentacruel is a better hazard remover in theory than in practice, because it technically loses to most of the hazard setter in the tier.
Team has little to no offensive presence, and on top of that you don't even have control of the hazard game versus opposing stall teams.
Also stuff like SD Lando-T or SD Lum Chomp -> HWish MLop is basically a win button versus this team.
Also Chansey gets stressed way too easily for my liking. I'll update with any other things that occur to me!
Mega Venusaur when its Bold "checks" more stuff, but offensive MSaur generally checks the same things far more effectively without giving so many set up opportunities.
Team has a very bad matchup vs SD Ground types, to the point where I legit feel I lose from matchup.
No Steel type makes handling stuff like Latios/SD Chomp far harder than it should be.
Tentacruel is a better hazard remover in theory than in practice, because it technically loses to most of the hazard setter in the tier.
Team has little to no offensive presence, and on top of that you don't even have control of the hazard game versus opposing stall teams.
Also stuff like SD Lando-T or SD Lum Chomp -> HWish MLop is basically a win button versus this team.
Also Chansey gets stressed way too easily for my liking. I'll update with any other things that occur to me!
Since it is Now thursday I'm Going to permit the posting of Cores. Discussion is still permitted however and we do have the new standards so follow them and make sure what you post is Viable
You may now Post Cores
Reserving Mega Gardevoir + SD lando + Jirachi as bulky offence core
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Sets
Explanation: Nothing on this team enjoys Physical Grounds or psychics and this core combines 2 of the most powerful in the game into 1 offensive core. Lando needs simply to come in on chansey, Rhyperior or Weakened clefable to start going nuts. Easiest way to do so is double say garde out on venu when they switch to chansey or U-turn out with jirachi and then click swords dance. The only way past it as shown by the replay is to sack something to cleanly bring in venu or unaware clef. This is where the 2 partners come in. Garde likewise does a similer job to lando but on the special side smashing Venu and tenta with Psyshock, using T-wave or Tuant to cripple switch ins or just spamming Spam Hyper voice. Once garde is Out volconion is pretty much forced to come in allowing an easy double to Trickscarf jirachi which takes it out of the game or simply getting worn down Pretty much nothing on this team likes Duel Fairy/Psychic stabs and should either Lando or garde weaken Jirachi is there to pick them up with healing wish or take away the oppenent ability to double swtich by trick locking something.
Viability:
You may now Post Cores
Reserving Mega Gardevoir + SD lando + Jirachi as bulky offence core
Sets
Landorus-Therian @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunder Wave / Taunt
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Trick
- Healing Wish
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunder Wave / Taunt
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Trick
- Healing Wish
Explanation: Nothing on this team enjoys Physical Grounds or psychics and this core combines 2 of the most powerful in the game into 1 offensive core. Lando needs simply to come in on chansey, Rhyperior or Weakened clefable to start going nuts. Easiest way to do so is double say garde out on venu when they switch to chansey or U-turn out with jirachi and then click swords dance. The only way past it as shown by the replay is to sack something to cleanly bring in venu or unaware clef. This is where the 2 partners come in. Garde likewise does a similer job to lando but on the special side smashing Venu and tenta with Psyshock, using T-wave or Tuant to cripple switch ins or just spamming Spam Hyper voice. Once garde is Out volconion is pretty much forced to come in allowing an easy double to Trickscarf jirachi which takes it out of the game or simply getting worn down Pretty much nothing on this team likes Duel Fairy/Psychic stabs and should either Lando or garde weaken Jirachi is there to pick them up with healing wish or take away the oppenent ability to double swtich by trick locking something.
Viability:
Garde is definatly not as Grand as she once was thanks in part to the pursuit heavy meta and Competion from her prettier counterpart diancie. All said and done tho she is still a very powerful stall and balance breaker at home in Offencive build that few things want to switch into so long as she has support. Lando can take some steel attacks directed at garde and as an indivdual mon is as good as ever While Jirachi can revenge Weavile and healing wish the other 2. In addition as the meta is getting bulkier cores such as this are getting better since they bust them open so easily
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HailFall
my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Superpower
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Rain Dance
- Psychic
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Superpower
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Rain Dance
- Psychic
Choice Band Tyranitar is a massive threat to most stall, and this team is no exception. Furthemore the team's only way of dealing with manaphy is with Chansey, but Chansey is quite a poor check and outright loses to Rain Dance variants. How this core would work in practice is that Tyranitar would come in on Chansey and pursuit trap it on the way out into Rhyperior. After that Manaphy gets a free switch and is able to Tail Glow up and Threaten to kill the weakened Chansey with Scald after Stealth Rock + sand damage. After chansey has fallen the rest of the team can be broken down fairly quickly with the combination of CBTar and Manaphy thanks to their great matchup.
Chansey's maximum health with this spread is 642
Represented as H
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
(292, 295, 300, 303, 306, 310, 313, 316, 319, 324, 327, 330, 334, 337, 340, 345)
Represented as T
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 139-165 (21.6 - 25.7%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
(139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 162, 165)
Represented as M
Stealth rock damage 642*1/8=80.25 (rounds to 80)
Represented as R
Sand damage 642*1/16=40.125 (rounds to 40)
Represented as S
H-T-M-2R-2S=Final HP
642-292-139-40*2-80*2=-29=ded chansey
Represented as H
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
(292, 295, 300, 303, 306, 310, 313, 316, 319, 324, 327, 330, 334, 337, 340, 345)
Represented as T
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 139-165 (21.6 - 25.7%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
(139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 162, 165)
Represented as M
Stealth rock damage 642*1/8=80.25 (rounds to 80)
Represented as R
Sand damage 642*1/16=40.125 (rounds to 40)
Represented as S
H-T-M-2R-2S=Final HP
642-292-139-40*2-80*2=-29=ded chansey
Manaphy has problems with being easily revenge killed by faster Electrics and Latis. Fortunately, TTar can pursuit trap all of these and take a huge chunk off of them with Choice Banded Pursuit.
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Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire/ Leech Seed/ Knock Off
Defensive Venusaur actually walls the entire team, only being mildly annoyed by Volcanion burning it. SD Garchomp can come in against anything except for Clefable who's 2HKOed by Sludge Bomb especially if it poisons. With the combo of Poison + rocks + being forced to switch into Garchomp all the time, Clefable is worn down very quickly and eliminated. Once Clefable goes down, Garchomp OHKOs everything with EQ. Rhyperior can live a hit at +2, but can't really touch Garchomp back (eq does around 40), and venusaur can come in and OHKO it with Giga Drain anyway. Knock off and Leech Seed allow Venu to wear Chansey down or cripple it. Finally, Lum Berry on Chomp allows it to prevent a burn or a toxic while SDing.
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Sobi
Banned deucer.
okie dokie, so this core is pretty much standard, it's really common on like every sand build and it utilizes sand stream tyranitar and sand rush excadrill, both of which form a really neat sand core together. latios rounds off this core by taking care of keldeo which troubles this core greatly due to the water/fighting weakness both exca and ttar share. it also provides defog which like any pokemon appreciates so there's that too. there's so many different moves you can run on all pokemon because of the sheer versatility this core has, so you can change moves depending on what you need.
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I think we've pretty much established that this team lacks a good Steel / Ground resist, so Excadrill can just make its way through this team by spamming a +1 Earthquake which should hit most of the team for good damage. Tyranitar provides support in sand for Excadrill to sweep and Latios is there to hit Chansey and Venusaur; Venusaur is especially annoying so Latios getting rid of it is greatly appreciated by the sand core.
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| Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
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| Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
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| Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychock
- Defog
- Roost
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
|
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
|
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychock
- Defog
- Roost
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Infernal
Banned deucer.
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out
- Zen Headbutt
Landorus-Therian @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Mega Cham is a nightmare for this team to face, and it's self explanatory to see how effective it is versus this build. It's faster than every Pokemon on the team and does a huge number to each member between its STAB moves. Although obvious, here are the calcs:
HJK vs. Rhyperior: 90 - 106.3%
HJK vs. Volcanion: 71.3 - 84.2%
HJK vs. Chansey: 160.1 - 188.7%
HJK vs. Clefable: 43.2 - 51.1%
Zen vs. Clefable: 53.4 - 62.8%
Zen vs. Mega Venusaur: 93.1 - 109.6%
Zen vs. Tentacruel: 141 - 166.9%
HJK vs. Volcanion: 71.3 - 84.2%
HJK vs. Chansey: 160.1 - 188.7%
HJK vs. Clefable: 43.2 - 51.1%
Zen vs. Clefable: 53.4 - 62.8%
Zen vs. Mega Venusaur: 93.1 - 109.6%
Zen vs. Tentacruel: 141 - 166.9%
EQ vs. Rhyperior: 54 - 63.9%
EQ vs. Volcanion: 85.9 - 101.3%
EQ vs. Chansey: 48.1 - 56.6%
EQ vs. Clefable: 52.1 - 61.8%
EQ vs. Mega Venusaur: 45.4 - 53.7%
EQ vs. Tentacruel: 137.7 - 162.5%
EQ vs. Volcanion: 85.9 - 101.3%
EQ vs. Chansey: 48.1 - 56.6%
EQ vs. Clefable: 52.1 - 61.8%
EQ vs. Mega Venusaur: 45.4 - 53.7%
EQ vs. Tentacruel: 137.7 - 162.5%
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Subjugator
Banned deucer.
So, I've decided to return to Competitive Pokemon for the time being, now that I'm no longer ill. I'm just trying to shy away from any social aspect to minimize the chances of me getting called out.
1) I've always used Rhyperior over Lando-T for sentimental reasons. However, since in retrospect, this team is pretty flawed, and Lando-T beats Garchomp and co. 1v1. The whole point of the Stall team was to take advantage of Defensive Volcanion. However, I don't really understand what AM means by 'trapping'. Since Gothitelle is completely useless and I don't really think that Weavile fits the picture well (considering that Lando-T takes care of grounds), and Tyranitar is just dank. Or not, just my first opinions.
2) I really do need a wincon, but I don't really have anythings up for grabs. Thoughts?
Now I know that this isn't an RMT thread but the last two pages have done such so why not. Now, I present my core.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
Hm, let's see Kyurem-Black kills Rhyperior, Mega Venusaur, Tentacruel, and Mega Lopunny gets Chansey. However, both can and will be burned by Volcanion who is bulky enough to stomach anything they can throw at it and then it will be crippled enough for Lando-T or Mega Venu to wall but this is only in a perfect situation. Nothing more to say about it really.
1) I've always used Rhyperior over Lando-T for sentimental reasons. However, since in retrospect, this team is pretty flawed, and Lando-T beats Garchomp and co. 1v1. The whole point of the Stall team was to take advantage of Defensive Volcanion. However, I don't really understand what AM means by 'trapping'. Since Gothitelle is completely useless and I don't really think that Weavile fits the picture well (considering that Lando-T takes care of grounds), and Tyranitar is just dank. Or not, just my first opinions.
2) I really do need a wincon, but I don't really have anythings up for grabs. Thoughts?
Now I know that this isn't an RMT thread but the last two pages have done such so why not. Now, I present my core.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
Hm, let's see Kyurem-Black kills Rhyperior, Mega Venusaur, Tentacruel, and Mega Lopunny gets Chansey. However, both can and will be burned by Volcanion who is bulky enough to stomach anything they can throw at it and then it will be crippled enough for Lando-T or Mega Venu to wall but this is only in a perfect situation. Nothing more to say about it really.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 12 Atk / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Roost
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Tail
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
Lucario basically 6-0s the team tho tentacruel can take a +2 CC and Mega Venusaur can take a +2 Iron Tail. Kyu-B helps lighten up the problem of Mega Venusaur and the risk of Iron Tail and Tentacruel along with pressuring the team to send out chansey. With hazard support it helps Lucario get the 6-0 at +2. Tried to make the teams fair as much to the meta as possible
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Volcanion: 331-391 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO + Rocks = OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 367-432 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 491-579 (115.8 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 292-344 (80.4 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-378545741 Not The Best HO builder but still shows the pt.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-378537962 My typical Balance or BO
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First week of the new changes and everything seems to be going well. Quality is good and we have alot of Rock and Ground based Cores. I apoligize for opening voting a day late but I needed time for people to get used toi the new changes. Anyway Time to vote
Cores
Core 1 - Mega Gardevoir + Landorus T + Jirachi
Core 2 - Manaphy + Tyranitar
Core 3 - Garchomp + Mega Venusaur
Core 4 - Excadrill + Tyranitar + Latios
Core 5 - Mega Medicham + Landorus T
Core 6 - Kyurem Black + Mega Lopunny
Core 7 - Kyurem Black + Lucario
As usual, everyone gets 2 Votes (no voting for your own core!) and in addition you must provide a brief explanation as to why you voted for the core. Voting will end on Monday. Good luck and have fun!!! Oh yeah, whoever reaches the Hall of Fame 3 times or more gets to have their team broken.
Cores
Core 1 - Mega Gardevoir + Landorus T + Jirachi
Core 2 - Manaphy + Tyranitar
Core 3 - Garchomp + Mega Venusaur
Core 4 - Excadrill + Tyranitar + Latios
Core 5 - Mega Medicham + Landorus T
Core 6 - Kyurem Black + Mega Lopunny
Core 7 - Kyurem Black + Lucario
As usual, everyone gets 2 Votes (no voting for your own core!) and in addition you must provide a brief explanation as to why you voted for the core. Voting will end on Monday. Good luck and have fun!!! Oh yeah, whoever reaches the Hall of Fame 3 times or more gets to have their team broken.
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Sobi
Banned deucer.
5 - Medicham and Landorus T.
I like this offensive core b/c Medicham can pretty much take on the team by itself and Landorus-T can keep up the offensive pressure with Stealth Rock and the team can't really do much to it.
7 - Kyurem-B and Lucario
Another offensive core, wallbreaker + cleaner is always a threat to most stalls teams usually because they tend to be very passive and unable to do much back as I said above.
I like this offensive core b/c Medicham can pretty much take on the team by itself and Landorus-T can keep up the offensive pressure with Stealth Rock and the team can't really do much to it.
7 - Kyurem-B and Lucario
Another offensive core, wallbreaker + cleaner is always a threat to most stalls teams usually because they tend to be very passive and unable to do much back as I said above.
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Cores 1 and 7
Normally wouldn't vote a triple core but Gard-M absolutely crushes this team if chansey gets para'd once or misplays a taunt on that slashed slot. Having faced Gard with this team, you just feel absolutely powerless.
Also there's literally nothing you can do vs Lucario outside pray scald from tentacruel burns.
Normally wouldn't vote a triple core but Gard-M absolutely crushes this team if chansey gets para'd once or misplays a taunt on that slashed slot. Having faced Gard with this team, you just feel absolutely powerless.
Also there's literally nothing you can do vs Lucario outside pray scald from tentacruel burns.
Core 5
As stated, Fighting/ Psychic coverage makes this team cry and Mega Medicham has the power to 2HKO everything in the team. Lando sets up Rocks, beats Tentacruel 1 v 1 and has a strong Earthquake to threaten the team.
Core 1
SD Ground-types wreck this team and it has plenty of opportunities to set up. Mega Gard smacks everything but Chansey, which you can take advantage of in a double switch.
As stated, Fighting/ Psychic coverage makes this team cry and Mega Medicham has the power to 2HKO everything in the team. Lando sets up Rocks, beats Tentacruel 1 v 1 and has a strong Earthquake to threaten the team.
Core 1
SD Ground-types wreck this team and it has plenty of opportunities to set up. Mega Gard smacks everything but Chansey, which you can take advantage of in a double switch.
Core 1
Core 5
edit: sorry for no explanation – I didn't see that it was required now.
Core 5
edit: sorry for no explanation – I didn't see that it was required now.
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Sobi
Banned deucer.
okay so voting has finished and the core with the most votes was Infernal 's Landorus-T + Medicham core, so congratulations to them not only for winning this week but for also featuring in the Hall of Fame again, currently being the only user to have won 4 times! Could I just remind you that it is now necessary to provide a brief justification for your vote, we're not asking for you to do a big favour -- a few words will suffice!
Votes:
Core 1: 3
Core 5: 4
Core 7: 3
Team:
Votes:
Core 1: 3
Core 5: 4
Core 7: 3
Team:
so here is another team from the samples thread, it's Clone. 's sand team which we thought would be nice to feature since we haven't had a sand team for a while and it's becoming a common playstyle.
Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Rotom-Wash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Rotom-Wash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
taken from description in sample teams thread
Description:
So here is a sand team I built for OST that did well when I used it in various environments, including my OST match. The team is built with an Excadrill sweep in mind, so it is tailored to weakening its checks and counters. Tyranitar is the standard sand support set. I went with a Smooth Rock because those extra sand turns can be the difference between Excadrill winning, or your opponent stalling out sand turns. Ice Beam is in the last slot to deal heavy damage to Lando T while also chipping grasses and other Ground types. I chose Mega Zam as my Mega because it has a fantastic speed tier and does a good job of dealing damage to a lot of common Pokemon in the metagame. The set is standard, and I went with Calm Mind in the last spot because +1 makes all the difference in securing vital OHKOes that Zam normally can't get. Tangrowth was the next mon I added because Azu and other waters were looking pretty threatening and PhysDef Tang is amazing right now; it takes care of all the aforementioned threats while also handling other physical attackers such as Lando T, Bisharp, and other things I'm forgetting. I went with PhysDef instead of AV because Sleep Powder is amazing for catching pesky Heatran switchins and anything else I'm forgetting. Excadrill is next because it's sand and why would you use sand without Excadrill. It's standard Air Balloon SD with Adamant and no spin because power is needed more than the speed or utility. Next I have fast Rotom, which is incredibly useful for burning a +2 Bisharp while also taking on normal things Rotom takes on and giving me pivoting ability to send in a teammate after a slow Volt Switch. I have a Rocky Helmet here instead of Leftovers because getting chip damage on U-Turns and other physical attacks can be crucial later on in the game. The set is the one I posted in the underrated sets thread and helps take on offensive Drill checks like Azu and Loom because the latter gets burnt instead of it outright killing me with Bullet Seed and the former gets beat normally anyways. Lastly, I added LO Torn-T to do some damage and kill some pesky Drill checks like Skarm, Ferro, and Lando-T with HP Ice / Heat Wave. It also does decent damage to Rotom with Superpower so that's also a plus. Not having U-turn can be annoying but honestly 4 attack Torn can be very deadly to certain fat builds its ridiculous. If you wanna use this team for yourself HP Ice can be replaced by U-turn, but I would personally keep it for killing non Yache Lando turn 1.
Here is a replay from OST of the team in action so you can see how it works.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-145183
That being said, feel free to discuss this team's weaknesses and/or buddy up with someone to get to know the team more! Tagging Creator of Chaos to update the OP.
Description:
So here is a sand team I built for OST that did well when I used it in various environments, including my OST match. The team is built with an Excadrill sweep in mind, so it is tailored to weakening its checks and counters. Tyranitar is the standard sand support set. I went with a Smooth Rock because those extra sand turns can be the difference between Excadrill winning, or your opponent stalling out sand turns. Ice Beam is in the last slot to deal heavy damage to Lando T while also chipping grasses and other Ground types. I chose Mega Zam as my Mega because it has a fantastic speed tier and does a good job of dealing damage to a lot of common Pokemon in the metagame. The set is standard, and I went with Calm Mind in the last spot because +1 makes all the difference in securing vital OHKOes that Zam normally can't get. Tangrowth was the next mon I added because Azu and other waters were looking pretty threatening and PhysDef Tang is amazing right now; it takes care of all the aforementioned threats while also handling other physical attackers such as Lando T, Bisharp, and other things I'm forgetting. I went with PhysDef instead of AV because Sleep Powder is amazing for catching pesky Heatran switchins and anything else I'm forgetting. Excadrill is next because it's sand and why would you use sand without Excadrill. It's standard Air Balloon SD with Adamant and no spin because power is needed more than the speed or utility. Next I have fast Rotom, which is incredibly useful for burning a +2 Bisharp while also taking on normal things Rotom takes on and giving me pivoting ability to send in a teammate after a slow Volt Switch. I have a Rocky Helmet here instead of Leftovers because getting chip damage on U-Turns and other physical attacks can be crucial later on in the game. The set is the one I posted in the underrated sets thread and helps take on offensive Drill checks like Azu and Loom because the latter gets burnt instead of it outright killing me with Bullet Seed and the former gets beat normally anyways. Lastly, I added LO Torn-T to do some damage and kill some pesky Drill checks like Skarm, Ferro, and Lando-T with HP Ice / Heat Wave. It also does decent damage to Rotom with Superpower so that's also a plus. Not having U-turn can be annoying but honestly 4 attack Torn can be very deadly to certain fat builds its ridiculous. If you wanna use this team for yourself HP Ice can be replaced by U-turn, but I would personally keep it for killing non Yache Lando turn 1.
Here is a replay from OST of the team in action so you can see how it works.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-145183
That being said, feel free to discuss this team's weaknesses and/or buddy up with someone to get to know the team more! Tagging Creator of Chaos to update the OP.
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Hold off on posting. I need to clear a few things up.
Feel free to post. Discussion begins
I'm gonna start off focusing on what this team does well since I think it's a lot better than the last team and deserves some praise for its good qualities instead of just ripping it to shreds discussing all its weaknesses. The defensive backbone is mostly pretty nice albeit a bit passive especially Ttar as a rocker, but has a nice pivot combo and overall Ttar/Rotom/Tang covers a lot of ground. A lot of the weaknesses of the defensive core are handled by the offensive mons - i.e. Medicham is checked by Zam and Torn-T. The offensive half of the team has a solidified premise too with Tornadus being the primary breaker while Zam and Exca can be supplementary breakers or ultimately the win cons depending on matchup. Smooth Rock on Tyranitar makes sense for SD Excadrill. Although it forgoes Rapid Spin, the team isn't too hazard weak given 2 ground immunities + Air Balloon Exca + MG Zam (prior to mega evo).
Onto the weaknesses now. The Dark resist on this team is Tyranitar so this means Tangrowth and Rotom are the Bisharp checks, Rotom being susceptible to Bisharp's Lum Berry set (potentially the best one). Weavile is probably the biggest issue I see since just about nothing on this team deals with it before Zam mega evolves or sand is put up for Excadrill. It's extremely difficult to switch into and Low Kick variants 1v1 about half the team without prior damage once again if Zam hasn't mega evolved. No defensive Steel-type so switching into Diancie is also an issue (it can block SR from Tyranitar too) as well as Gardevoir. Medicham, Thundurus and Keldeo (Specs) are tough to switch into. Clefable is pretty threatening since Excadrill is the only way to beat it really, Tang can put it to sleep I guess but nothing can kill it besides Exca since Zam and Torn don't have stallbreaking moves. Also think it's a bit odd that Alakazam is CM Psychic over Psyshock since it's gonna lose CM wars with stuff, granted Slowbro is annoyed by Rotom pretty heavily but like Suicune is more of an issue. Realistically I don't see Suicune as a big threat either but I am just a little curious about the CM Psychic choice. I think theres a lack of stallbreaking on this team so certain stall matchups could be pretty difficult to win.
Onto the weaknesses now. The Dark resist on this team is Tyranitar so this means Tangrowth and Rotom are the Bisharp checks, Rotom being susceptible to Bisharp's Lum Berry set (potentially the best one). Weavile is probably the biggest issue I see since just about nothing on this team deals with it before Zam mega evolves or sand is put up for Excadrill. It's extremely difficult to switch into and Low Kick variants 1v1 about half the team without prior damage once again if Zam hasn't mega evolved. No defensive Steel-type so switching into Diancie is also an issue (it can block SR from Tyranitar too) as well as Gardevoir. Medicham, Thundurus and Keldeo (Specs) are tough to switch into. Clefable is pretty threatening since Excadrill is the only way to beat it really, Tang can put it to sleep I guess but nothing can kill it besides Exca since Zam and Torn don't have stallbreaking moves. Also think it's a bit odd that Alakazam is CM Psychic over Psyshock since it's gonna lose CM wars with stuff, granted Slowbro is annoyed by Rotom pretty heavily but like Suicune is more of an issue. Realistically I don't see Suicune as a big threat either but I am just a little curious about the CM Psychic choice. I think theres a lack of stallbreaking on this team so certain stall matchups could be pretty difficult to win.
Infernal
Banned deucer.
Clef looks threatening. From experience, having Exca as your main check doesn't end well because it's always eventually worn down, especially when it's the primary switch in to Moonblast. Every other member kind of loses 1v1, and the other main ways of applying offensive pressure on Clef besides Exca (Mega Zam and Torn-T) are crippled by Thunder Wave. Tangrowth can hope for a Sleep Powder, but realistically, I don't think anyone would risk letting their Clefable fall asleep versus this team given the work it's able to do. In the long run I think Clef will definitely give this team a hard time.
Aside from Clef, the other problem I see are offensive breakers capable of exploiting the team's defensive core of Tar, Rotom-W, and Tangrowth. For example, Keldeo, Mega Zam, Mega Diancie, Mega Cham, Mega Hera, and Mega Gardevoir all apply a great deal of offensive pressure on this team once they find the chance to come in against one of the team's defensive members. The team has ways of checking them offensively between Exca, the team's own Mega Zam, and Torn-T. However, they're still scary for the team simply because they threaten to kill or heavily damage something each time they're in. This can be problematic versus a player who realizes this and plays aggressively enough to take advantage of this weakness.
Although it's not too common anymore, Zard-Y also falls under the category of Pokemon this team has a hard time switching into. Like the offensive breakers mentioned earlier, it's able to threaten the team's defensive core well. However, the main thing separating Zard-Y from them is its ability to remove sand and threaten to kill Exca before being killed itself. Another factor is Zard-Y doesn't fear Torn-T or Mega Zam as much as other problematic threats like Mega Cham, Keld, and Mega Hera. In practice, Zard-Y's success against this team will probably depend on how well SR can be kept off, but it's still an issue to consider in any case. One more Pokemon I can see being annoying is Mega Scizor, primarily if Rotom-W dies or gets worn down too much (which isn't unrealistic if you consider sand, SR, and the lack of Leftovers/bulk). A classic combo like Bisharp + Mega Scizor, for example, can threaten to sweep the team handily.
Defensively, I can see something like Mega Eye being a big pain. It's able to stop Tar from setting up SR, and nothing on the team really likes eating a WoW or Knock, which can both serve to quickly wear things down here. When found on stall and paired with your typical defensive backbone (Weavile stall as an example), it's definitely going to be a nuisance. This is tied to the lack of solid tools this team has versus stall in general.
Overall, I think most of the weaknesses here stem from several offensive Pokemon being capable of exploiting the team's defensive core, as well as a large reliance on Exca to handle fairies and several faster threats. The team has to be played in such a way as to minimize the opportunities these offensive threats have to threaten the team. This is done by applying your own offensive pressure with Mega Zam, Exca, and Torn-T before the person you're facing can pressure you themselves. It's a cool sand team all in all and has a good mixture of defensive and offensive options.
Aside from Clef, the other problem I see are offensive breakers capable of exploiting the team's defensive core of Tar, Rotom-W, and Tangrowth. For example, Keldeo, Mega Zam, Mega Diancie, Mega Cham, Mega Hera, and Mega Gardevoir all apply a great deal of offensive pressure on this team once they find the chance to come in against one of the team's defensive members. The team has ways of checking them offensively between Exca, the team's own Mega Zam, and Torn-T. However, they're still scary for the team simply because they threaten to kill or heavily damage something each time they're in. This can be problematic versus a player who realizes this and plays aggressively enough to take advantage of this weakness.
Although it's not too common anymore, Zard-Y also falls under the category of Pokemon this team has a hard time switching into. Like the offensive breakers mentioned earlier, it's able to threaten the team's defensive core well. However, the main thing separating Zard-Y from them is its ability to remove sand and threaten to kill Exca before being killed itself. Another factor is Zard-Y doesn't fear Torn-T or Mega Zam as much as other problematic threats like Mega Cham, Keld, and Mega Hera. In practice, Zard-Y's success against this team will probably depend on how well SR can be kept off, but it's still an issue to consider in any case. One more Pokemon I can see being annoying is Mega Scizor, primarily if Rotom-W dies or gets worn down too much (which isn't unrealistic if you consider sand, SR, and the lack of Leftovers/bulk). A classic combo like Bisharp + Mega Scizor, for example, can threaten to sweep the team handily.
Defensively, I can see something like Mega Eye being a big pain. It's able to stop Tar from setting up SR, and nothing on the team really likes eating a WoW or Knock, which can both serve to quickly wear things down here. When found on stall and paired with your typical defensive backbone (Weavile stall as an example), it's definitely going to be a nuisance. This is tied to the lack of solid tools this team has versus stall in general.
Overall, I think most of the weaknesses here stem from several offensive Pokemon being capable of exploiting the team's defensive core, as well as a large reliance on Exca to handle fairies and several faster threats. The team has to be played in such a way as to minimize the opportunities these offensive threats have to threaten the team. This is done by applying your own offensive pressure with Mega Zam, Exca, and Torn-T before the person you're facing can pressure you themselves. It's a cool sand team all in all and has a good mixture of defensive and offensive options.
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If you ever get 25% damage on rotom-w, excadrill dead/without sand and an altaria at +1, game ends. This team doesn't seem to have a lot of great answers to fairies in terms of switchins. It certainly has the speed for it but diancie-m, malt with a boost, and gard-m should output enough damage to shred excadrill/whatever comes in. Azumarill is handled really nicely, though. If you have sand to sac, you can always revenge kill or threaten but that speed isn't always there.
Edit: Wanna check Ala's speed on a +1 MAlt.
Okay, so Alakazam CAN outspeed Mega Altaria. He'll be able to revenge if it's 70%. Just requires his to be mega'd before hand.
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 177-208 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Should be mentioned that tangrowth is actually tanky enough to take on Bisharp by itself, though. TTar need not be bothered.
Edit: Wanna check Ala's speed on a +1 MAlt.
Okay, so Alakazam CAN outspeed Mega Altaria. He'll be able to revenge if it's 70%. Just requires his to be mega'd before hand.
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 177-208 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Should be mentioned that tangrowth is actually tanky enough to take on Bisharp by itself, though. TTar need not be bothered.