Bringing Back Salamence?

[Arch3r]

Hello everyone, I have a team here that I want rated before I try to ladder up for suspect voting. I have never voted before, (i'm lazy) so I am aiming to be able to vote this suspect testing round. This is a team that I have been using for awhile, which I am just now bothering to put up to be rated. So please help me out, and try to be as polite as possible. Thanks!


At A Glance

@ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Psycho Boost
- HP Fire

Ok so to start of this RMT, I decided to use a Pokemon that can guarantee Entry Hazards and possibly be a Revenge-Killer. For this role I chose Deoxys-S, which fills both roles well. I usually use the first turn to set up Rocks or Spikes depending on the opponents team, then switch out to a Pokemon that checks/counters their lead. Also, for those rare Dragon/Gliscor/Landobro leads, I put Ice Beam on along with Psycho Boost to get a early KO.

@ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Ice Fang

Alright, this is my Gliscor who plays a major role on this team, checking Ninetales on the first turn along with being my Defensive anchor. With first turn Protect, I can scout if they are a Spec D set with Hypnosis/WoW or if they are an attacking set. Toxic Orb makes neither of those moves effective at all against him. Not sure if I am running my EV spread right, because I see the 72 Speed set on Smogon but see no explanation. So yeah, very effective Physical Wall and is a great choice IMO for this team.

@ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake (Filler)

Alright, so I am seeing a lot more Haxorus and it honestly is great and has gotten me out of tight spots, but it does not get a Fire Type move which pisses me off so much that I want to punch baby after baby after baby in a line. So I decided to use a straightforward sweeper instead of going through the worrying about Multi-Scale and stuff. I have pulled out of some tight spots with Salamence and it gets perfect neutral/more coverage with the 3 attacking moves. Anyway I have Fire Blast because Naive Fire Blast does more than Jolly Fire Fang. Naive Nature also for that reason.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Disable

Alright, so this is a pretty good sweeper and although it is a Glass Cannon if I execute it right I can sweep or put a major dent into the other team. Substitute is an obvious choice because it can help me with my sweep and last longer (8====D----0). Shadow Ball is great for an obvious STAB and Focus Blast is for those damn Steel types. Psychic also helps for Fighting Type Pokemon. Timid Nature also to outspeed other Gengar because it pisses me off losing Speed Ties because most run Modest.
note: Just gonna put Disable here to piss ppl off

@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 156 Spe / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic

Alright, this is my Special Wall, but I originally had a spinner/annoyer in this spot with Tentacruel, until I realized I am fucked against any Special Dragons. This is a general set I got off of Smogon, and I have made no changes at all except for the leftover EV or having Roar instead of SR, due to me already having SR with Deo-S. Not much to explain besides this is my main counter/check to Volcarona and Special Dragons. 156 Speed to outspeed Scizor

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge

Alright, so this is the end of my team with my Scarfer/Revenge Killer. Terrakion's moveset is very simple, with Stone Edge for STAB/Volcarona, X-Scissor for Psychics and Celebi, CC for hard hitting STAB and EQ for redundant coverage. I usually like to run a strategy where I bait the Dark Type move with Gengar and get the Justified boost if I realize the player isn't smart. Jolly Nature and a Scarf gives me that maximum speed I need to beat common threats, and with max speed I can outspeed Deo-S. Great Pokemon and I love having him on the team.




Export For Testing:

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Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Psycho Boost

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Ice Fang

Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Disable

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge

Well this is the end of my team, I am probably going to post a threat List tomorrow but not finish it for awhile because I am a lazy mo-fo. Thanks for rating, and please be polite with your rates.

 

[Yamborski]

Instantly 6-0ed by SD Scizor that runs speed EVs.

Rock Polish HP Ice Landorus also 6-0s.

Otherwise looks solid. Get rid of Psychic on Gengar, just run Disable, Pain Split, Thunderbolt etc.

Maybe run Substitute over Taunt on Gliscor. Sub Protect Gliscor can PP stall 32 turns which is pretty cool when your opponent uses something like Rotom W to beat you and ends up PP stalled out of Hydro Pumps.

 

[kd24]

to fix the scizor problem, you can give heatran 229 speed (i think that is 156 evs), that all being said, you have a real problem vs rain teams as in you have 1 resist, a life orb mon weak to sr (and subsequently can be 2hkoed by specs hydro pump in rain and whatever else is being thrown at him.

to fix this, i think i would run Latios over Gliscor - he checks sun somewhat well (neither takes the stab scarf fire attacks that well, but at least latios can actually switch in on ninetales), gives you another fighting resist, but most importantly, gives a solid resist to rain that can threaten a somewhat large portion of the team. either:

scarf latios with draco meteor/trick/psyshock/thunderbolt (this kind of helps with a very small weakness to dd gyarados) but more importantly, checks a ton of that faster crap you were worried about

or

lo/lefties latios with recover/draco meteor/psyshock/thunderbolt which gives you some survivability now without the ability to revenge.

i think it really helps in the longterm for this team.

 

[New World Order]

Hi, nice team. It seems that Rain teams in general can prove to be problematic for your team, as you don't really have a reliable answer to them. It seems that Gliscor is currently the weak link of your team. It theoretically checks Terrakion and Landorus, but it does so better in theory than in practice. a +2 Life Orb Stone Edge potentially OHKOs after Stealth Rock Damage, whereas Landorus could potentially OHKO outright with Hidden Power Ice. Besides, you already have Deoxys to revenge kill these two, so losing Gliscor shouldn't be that big an issue. Out of most of the common Rain threats, Starmie appears to be the most threatening to your team, capable of running through your entire team between Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. SubCM Jirachi is another Pokemon who could prove problematic, as Lava Plume will bounce off harmlessly in the rain. To patch up these issues, I suggest using a Specially Defensive Gastrodon instead of Gliscor. Gastrodon is as close to a Starmie counter as you can get, as it can take the 3 most common moves: Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Thunder. If you run a Sassy Nature and Earthquake instead of Earth Power, Gastrodon would provide a solid SubCM Jirachi check as well. It is also a solid counter to Rotom-W, which is always helpful. Gastrodon also keeps that all important Ground type for absorbing Thunder Wave, while Heatran can absorb Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. While you no longer have a designated status absorber, status should still not be an issue for you.

In Summary:

Hide

Specially Defensive Gastrodon>Gliscor
pros: take on rain teams better, counters things such as Starmie, Rotom-W, and Jirachi
cons: lose designated status absorber

GL

Sets:

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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Storm Drain
Sassy
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
- Scald
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

 

[Arch3r]

Alright well I see two different people saying two different things. Since I really like my Gliscor I am not sure what to do yet but if I do change it I am leaning towards Latias due to not seeing any Starmie yet etc. I am looking for more feedback though before I make any drastic changes.

 

[SyaoranLi]

hey guys I'm new here, can someone please explain how to post a thread?

 

[Arch3r]

okay, so i tried running latias and it did not work and i fell about 200 points on the ladder, from high 1000's to the lower 900's. latias is not working for me so i am going to test Gastrodon tommorow and then see what i have from there.

 

[mazzulmaz]

Y NO FOCUS SASH ON DEOXYS .

Nice team btw.

 

[Dragone]

Y NO FOCUS SASH ON DEOXYS .

Focus Sash is close to useless in today's meta game due to the copious amounts of Stealth Rock and sand teams. Deoxys is already 2HKOed by most leads in OU, so recovery is superior.

 

[Pocket]

New World Order provided you an excellent option for handling Rain Teams. However, if you want to keep Gliscor for its defensive capabilities, I suggest trying out specially-defensive Roserade over Deoxys-S instead. You still get to keep Gliscor while you incorporate a mon that can soak up Water moves. There's Jirachi, Toxicroak, and Tornadus as potential rain threats, but I believe your team has checks for those.

Even more, Roserade offers Toxic Spikes which complements well with the stalling tactics seen in this team (SubSplit Gengar, SubProtect Gliscor, Protect Heatran, etc), and does a good job in wearing down the team for Salamence. It also has Sleep Powder, which provides invaluable switch opportunities to Terrakion, Salamence, and Gengar. Losing Deoxys-S means you lose out on SR, but you can easily give Stealth Rock to Heatran over Toxic.

Here's the set:
Specially Defensive Roserade

Roserade @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef | Calm Nature
~ Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
~ Hidden Power [Fire] / [Ice]
~ Sleep Powder
~ Toxic Spikes

HP Fire lets Roserade to more readily deal with Rotom-W / Scizor combination, as well as discourage set-up opportunities from other Steel Types like Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory. HP Ice comes in handy to catch Dragons on the switch, but that's about it. I prefer HP Fire, since you don't need to predict the switch-in to be useful. You could still threaten either a Steel or a Dragon Type with Sleep Powder.
I gave it some Def EVs, so it could tank Scizor's Bullet Punch better.

 

[Bruno Magno]

Single rates

Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Psycho Boost
This version looks unuseful, try Adamant with Fire Punch and Superpower, to stop Forretress, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar. Then, Focus Sash is a must

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Ice Fang
Swords Dance is much better than Protect, totally useless, as long as you don't carry Fling

Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
That's ok, if you want to try my VertSalamandre PM me :)

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Disable
Substitute + Life Orb Gengar... and no Pain Split?

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic
Yeah, let's run Special Defensive Heatran. Waterfall, for all your team, is a terrible move. Then, Will-O-Wisp over Toxic, for the same reason of Scald + WOW on Jellicent

Overall

Your team is awfully pwned by these things

1. Rain Teams
   Once Gliscor is over, after 1-2 Ice Beams, all your team is really weak at Scald + Thunder. Even Naughty Salamence get a giant damage from a good Thunder. Deoxys-S can't do anything to stop Skarmory to set EH or Politoed to spam Scald
   
2. Common leads
   A few things can stop Ferrothorn, Heatran's Lava Plume can do only 77% on a 252/0 spread, and it often goes 252/252+. Deoxys-S needs Magic Coat, or Taunt if you don't like risk. In this situations, Heatran can help with Forretress and Skarmory, though
   
3. Taunters
   Deoxys, Heatran, Gliscor are fucked up while Taunted. They can sweep, ok, but it's still a big problem
   
4. Sun Teams
   That's the biggest problem. Flamethrower + SolarBeam can break all your defences, while Gliscor can't take a good HP Ice, and Heatran is killed by HP Ground from Volcarona (usually is the main special sweeper) or by Venusaur's Earthquake

Some things must be improved, but it's a good base to work on :)

 

[Cyberthorn]

Scarfed starmie could 6-0 your team in the rain since you have only salamence to soak up water attacks, Gastrodon could possibly patch up those weakness

 

[Dragone]

Scarfed starmie could 6-0 your team in the rain since you have only salamence to soak up water attacks, Gastrodon could possibly patch up those weakness

Scarfed Starmie is so rare in today's meta game that it wouldn't be worth covering it only to trade off for another weakness.

 

[doughboy]

Why not have a Defensive Forretress over Deoxys-S?

Ferrothorn@Leftovers
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD |Relaxed Nature
Trait: Sturdy
- Protect
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn provides Spikes which can aid in Salamence's sweep, it also provides a resist to Water type attacks and forms are nice defensive core with Gliscor and Heatran. Power Whip can put a huge dent in Water types found on Rain teams. It allows you to deal with Starmie much more easily than you could have before as well.

Lastly I suggest that you should put Thunderbolt on Gengar over Disable. It will help you deal with bulky waters much more easily and get rid of them for Salamence. With the Third Coverage move, there will be a lot more pressure on the opponent which aid you in getting Leftovers recovery behind a substitute.

 

[Arch3r]

New World Order provided you an excellent option for handling Rain Teams. However, if you want to keep Gliscor for its defensive capabilities, I suggest trying out specially-defensive Roserade over Deoxys-S instead. You still get to keep Gliscor while you incorporate a mon that can soak up Water moves. There's Jirachi, Toxicroak, and Tornadus as potential rain threats, but I believe your team has checks for those.

Even more, Roserade offers Toxic Spikes which complements well with the stalling tactics seen in this team (SubSplit Gengar, SubProtect Gliscor, Protect Heatran, etc), and does a good job in wearing down the team for Salamence. It also has Sleep Powder, which provides invaluable switch opportunities to Terrakion, Salamence, and Gengar. Losing Deoxys-S means you lose out on SR, but you can easily give Stealth Rock to Heatran over Toxic.

Here's the set:
Specially Defensive Roserade

Roserade @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef | Calm Nature
~ Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
~ Hidden Power [Fire] / [Ice]
~ Sleep Powder
~ Toxic Spikes

HP Fire lets Roserade to more readily deal with Rotom-W / Scizor combination, as well as discourage set-up opportunities from other Steel Types like Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory. HP Ice comes in handy to catch Dragons on the switch, but that's about it. I prefer HP Fire, since you don't need to predict the switch-in to be useful. You could still threaten either a Steel or a Dragon Type with Sleep Powder.
I gave it some Def EVs, so it could tank Scizor's Bullet Punch better.

if i am going to change anything on this team, it is heatran. it may stop my sun weakness, but i think i need something like Gastrodon to take care of Rain.

Single rates

Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Psycho Boost
This version looks unuseful, try Adamant with Fire Punch and Superpower, to stop Forretress, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar. Then, Focus Sash is a must

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Ice Fang
Swords Dance is much better than Protect, totally useless, as long as you don't carry Fling

Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
That's ok, if you want to try my VertSalamandre PM me :)

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Disable
Substitute + Life Orb Gengar... and no Pain Split?

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic
Yeah, let's run Special Defensive Heatran. Waterfall, for all your team, is a terrible move. Then, Will-O-Wisp over Toxic, for the same reason of Scald + WOW on Jellicent

Overall

Your team is awfully pwned by these things

1. Rain Teams
   Once Gliscor is over, after 1-2 Ice Beams, all your team is really weak at Scald + Thunder. Even Naughty Salamence get a giant damage from a good Thunder. Deoxys-S can't do anything to stop Skarmory to set EH or Politoed to spam Scald
   
2. Common leads
   A few things can stop Ferrothorn, Heatran's Lava Plume can do only 77% on a 252/0 spread, and it often goes 252/252+. Deoxys-S needs Magic Coat, or Taunt if you don't like risk. In this situations, Heatran can help with Forretress and Skarmory, though
   
3. Taunters
   Deoxys, Heatran, Gliscor are fucked up while Taunted. They can sweep, ok, but it's still a big problem
   
4. Sun Teams
   That's the biggest problem. Flamethrower + SolarBeam can break all your defences, while Gliscor can't take a good HP Ice, and Heatran is killed by HP Ground from Volcarona (usually is the main special sweeper) or by Venusaur's Earthquake

Some things must be improved, but it's a good base to work on :)

I am running HP Fire on Deo-S, and Psycho Boost. More efficient and takes care of Scizor. Running Lefties on Gengar. Not much else you pointed out, just small things that have been taken care of

Scarfed starmie could 6-0 your team in the rain since you have only salamence to soak up water attacks, Gastrodon could possibly patch up those weakness

Scarfed Starmie is so rare in today's meta game that it wouldn't be worth covering it only to trade off for another weakness.

I am running Gastro while testing, but Scarfed Starmie is meh

Why not have a Defensive Forretress over Deoxys-S?

Ferrothorn@Leftovers
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD |Relaxed Nature
Trait: Sturdy
- Protect
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn provides Spikes which can aid in Salamence's sweep, it also provides a resist to Water type attacks and forms are nice defensive core with Gliscor and Heatran. Power Whip can put a huge dent in Water types found on Rain teams. It allows you to deal with Starmie much more easily than you could have before as well.

Lastly I suggest that you should put Thunderbolt on Gengar over Disable. It will help you deal with bulky waters much more easily and get rid of them for Salamence. With the Third Coverage move, there will be a lot more pressure on the opponent which aid you in getting Leftovers recovery behind a substitute.

no. Does nothing beneficial for my team besides forming a core.

 

[shadowxevo]

I'm seeing Mamoswine as a huge threat to this team, with its double Ground/Ice STABs. Therefor...

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
252 Sp. Atk | 4 Sp. Def | 252
Timid Nature (+Spd, -AtK)
~ Volt Switch
~ Hydro Pump
~ Hidden Power (Grass)
~ Trick

This allows you to beat Mamoswine, while still maintaining your revenge killer. I think you should get rid of Terrakion. Good luck.

EDIT: Also, Moxie Salamence has been released, with its DW exclusive moves Dragon Dance and Outrage, so I recommend you change it to that set.