RU Bronzong

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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Edit:

atomicllamas

Screw all the complex explanations; considering how you treated my comments they'd be lost on you anyways.

Basically, you

1: singled out 1 comment out of over a dozen

2: Assumed i was talking about the defensive set despite multiple mentions of Trick Room and even a calculation of Normal Gem Explosion!!

3: Used that to state that i shouldn't be commenting.
I singled out the part of your post that I didn't agree with. That part of your post was both the majority of your post (like half of your post was calcs trying to demonstrate this point) as well as the part most pertinent to my job as a QC member.

I didn't assume you were talking about the defensive set, neither set should run Heatproof, while OTR does (as stated in the analysis) "typically" set up TR and go boom, this is not always the case. Dark-types and Taunt users force it out and while Bronzong does typically lead that isn't to say that it always will. Additionally, Bronzong is very good on TR teams because it counters Rhyperior (which threatens TR teams) and Exploud (also threatens TR teams), and it needs Levitate to do both of these consistently. While there is certainly a niche for Heatproof Bronzong on a purely suicide lead set with Mental Herb, it is not large enough to warrant a mention in the set details and certainly not large enough to warrant a slash on the set, I also don't like the idea of mentioning Heatproof as newer players tend to latch onto the idea of Heatproof Bronzong when it is almost always inferior to Levitate.

To be quite frank, I've never been all that impressed with the meta game knowledge displayed in the comments you make in these analyses, I'm not even 100% sure you play RU on a consistent basis. That is the main reason I asked you to stop making these QC-like comments on people's analyses, you are, after all, a GP checker, not a QC checker.

But hey, at least you didn't completely miss the mistake in this analysis that led to this situation!

Oh wait.
I may have missed it on the first time through, but so did you, at least I picked it up the second time.

Now I'd like to stop derailing this thread, if you could too that would be great, thanks.
 
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tehy

Banned deucer.
I singled out the part of your post that I didn't agree with. That part of your post was both the majority of your post (like half of your post was calcs trying to demonstrate this point) as well as the part most pertinent to my job as a QC member.

I didn't assume you were talking about the defensive set, neither set should run Heatproof,
Really? Because your post explains why heatproof sux on spd zonger, and never mentions otr zonger.

while OTR does (as stated in the analysis) "typically" set up TR and go boom, this is not always the case. Dark-types and Taunt users force it out and while Bronzong does typically lead that isn't to say that it always will.
I myself pointed out this is the case

That said though, when you are suicide leading (a lot of the time?) heatproof is superior, and that's not nothing.
Additionally, Bronzong is very good on TR teams because it counters Rhyperior (which threatens TR teams) and Exploud (also threatens TR teams), and it needs Levitate to do both of these consistently. While there is certainly a niche for Heatproof Bronzong on a purely suicide lead set with Mental Herb, it is not large enough to warrant a mention in the set details and certainly not large enough to warrant a slash on the set, I also don't like the idea of mentioning Heatproof as newer players tend to latch onto the idea of Heatproof Bronzong when it is almost always inferior to Levitate.
The last part is true and quite unfortunate. To that, i would hope it could be mentioned in such a way to reject this? O.well.

Edit: I really don't like the idea that we can't include something helpful due to noobs. We can have nice things.

Also, is the normal gem explosion variant not suicidal or something?/edit

By the way, where is THAT in usage tips? Seems pretty relevant.

Edit: THAT as in, idk, preserve zong for walling that stuff?
To be quite frank, I've never been all that impressed with the meta game knowledge displayed in the comments you make in these analyses, I'm not even 100% sure you play RU on a consistent basis. That is the main reason I asked you to stop making these QC-like comments on people's analyses, you are, after all, a GP checker, not a QC checker.
I recently topped the ladder, and while i don't claim it as a measure of skill, it does show i play this tier.

If you think my comments are off, feel free to vm me about them.

I may have missed it on the first time through, but so did you, at least I picked it up the second time.
To be fair, as an amchecker i don't look at the set too hard.

Plus, you got it as as a direct result of my post, yw bby :D
Now I'd like to stop derailing this thread, if you could too that would be great, thanks.
Fine by me.

That said, there are a lot of comments you didn't address. Feel free to do so, either here or via pm/vm. (Though thankfully, the author removed flygon mentions.)


Edit: By the way...

So Bronzong is important for exploud and exploud has a dugtrio partner. Hmm.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bronzong: 130-153 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153)


You're 3hitkoed, and dugtrio can't come in if you use Trick Room on the switch-in; considering exploud's threat level, using Stealth Rock might just end with Exploud booming right through you, so Trick Room is probably what you'd use in that situation. (Or you attack, dugtrio dies anyhow.)

So i hear you say "double switch"; however, you can only switch in safely once anyhow, so the exploud user has one chance to double switch correctly. However, consider the risk/reward here.

(If we're talking about a double switch, the exploud user clearly predicted you, and if he did that, he can Fire Blast.)

(Also, dugtrio can't tell if you're trapped until he earthquakes.)

Fire Blast

Vs heatproof: 3hitko on zong

Vs levitate: 80% minimum, 95% maximum.

Dugtrio:

Vs heatproof:
Trap, ko

Vs levitate: give up 2 free turns. Either sr+tr or tr+gyro to someones face.

Double switch can either take down zong or fail utterly. Fire blast can either nearly take down zong or do okay. Miss chance sucks but oh well.


To be honest, i'd rather just cut the bs and boomburst here. Why give up a 3hitko AND likely allow free setup? AND you have to predict too?

At least with heatproof, you can take a fire blast, then take a boomburst under tr or after a sacrifice.

Not saying heatproof is better; the benefits are small vs exploud and you miss out on Rhyperior. But don't sell it as a detriment.

If heatproof does ever get mentioned, i'd state specifically "only if you have something for rhyperior without messing with your team just to cover it. Maybe mention cb terra as a teammate, though team options for it might go a bit far.
 
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GatoDelFuego

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horyzhnz

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Overview
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Bronzong's neat defensive typing grants it nine resistances and an immunity, and when coupled with its solid bulk and a great movepool, (RC) turns it into a great defensive or support Pokemon. Bronzong's nice ability, Levitate, grants it immunity to otherwise super effective Ground-type attacks and prevents it from being trapped by Dugtrio. Although its low Speed allows it to have a more powerful Gyro Ball and take advantage of Trick Room, it this also means that it will be taking more hits due to it moving after most opponents. The ubiquity of Knock Off is also detrimental to Bronzong, due to Knock Off hitting it super effectively, unlike other Steel-types, such as Registeel, which it faces competition from. A lack of reliable recovery also somewhat hampers Bronzong's defensive capabilities, leaving it slightly outclassed by some other walls such as Cresselia.

Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock / Protect
move 2: Gyro Ball
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Sassy
ivs: 0 Spe

Moves
========
Bronzong can easily find opportunities to set up Stealth Rock with its plethora of resistances and solid natural bulk. Protect can be used in this slot for racking up Toxic damage and regaining some HP from Leftovers if a teammate can set up Stealth Rock. Gyro Ball is easily Bronzong's strongest STAB move, and is powered up by its low Speed. Earthquake hits Fire-types which resist Gyro Ball for a decent amount of damage. Toxic can cripple switch-ins and wear them down so teammates can break past them easier.

Set Details
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Maximum HP and Special Defense investment with a Sassy nature makes Bronzong as bulky on the special side as possible, and 0 Speed IVs ensures Gyro Ball has as much power as possible. Levitate is an overall better ability compared to Heatproof, and allows Bronzong to wall Rhyperior to some extent. Leftovers is used to provide some residual recovery.

Usage Tips
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Bronzong can switch in many times throughout a match thanks to its solid bulk, an immunity to Spikes and Toxic, and a resistance to Stealth Rock. Taunt cripples Bronzong to some degree, so make sure to keep it away from potential Taunt users. Bronzong also forces quite a few switches, so take advantage of this and use Toxic often.

Team Options
========
Wish passers such as Aromatisse help greatly, due to Bronzong having no real recovery outside of Leftovers. Physically defensive walls such as Alomomola and Drapion also work well with Bronzong, soaking up both physical and special hits on both sides of the spectrum together. Setup sweepers such as Rhyperior can also take advantage of the many switches Bronzong forces. Knock Off absorbers, such as Cobalion which alsos gets a Justified boost, aid it Bronzong in staying alive and supporting its team.

Offensive Trick Room
########
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Gyro Ball / Earthquake
move 4: Explosion
ability: Levitate
item: Normal Gem / Mental Herb
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Brave
ivs: 0 Spe

Moves
========
Trick Room is easily set up unless the opponent is a fast Taunt user and setting up Stealth Rock is almost guaranteed after that. Gyro Ball hits quite hard due to Bronzong's low Speed, and hits most Taunt users for heavy damage while preventing it Bronzong from being completely shut down by Taunt. Alternatively, Earthquake can be used to hit opposing Steel-types and Fire-types, which resist Gyro Ball. Explosion allows Bronzong to literally go out with a bang, dealing heavy damage to anything that doesn't resist it and preventing opponents from Rapid Spinning or Defogging away Stealth Rock.

Set Details
========
Maximum HP and Attack EVs with a Relaxed nature let Bronzong tank hits pretty comfortably and retaliate hard, while Levitate grants it an immunity to Ground-type moves. Normal Gem allows Explosion to hit extremely hard, but a Mental Herb can be used to guaranteed the setup of Trick Room, and, by extension, Stealth Rock.

Usage Tips
========
This Bronzong should typically be used as a suicide lead to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock in order to assist some slower sweepers. Use Trick Room, Stealth Rock, and Explosion in that order, as Earthquake and Gyro Ball should only be used if the opponent carries Taunt. If there is a Ghost-type on the opponent's team, switch Bronzong out and save it to use Explosion later and possibly chunk an opposing wall.

Team Options
========
Slower sweepers such as Escavalier and Exploud can benefit from Trick Room and perform their roles even better. Phazers can continue forcing the opponent's Pokemon to take residual damage.

Other Options
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A Calm Mind set can be used with Flash Cannon and Psychic, but it is generally outclassed by other Calm Mind users such as X. A weather-setting move such as Sunny Day or Rain Dance can be used to support the team. Trick in combination with Lagging Tail or Toxic Orb can be fun to play around with. Hidden Power Ice is situational, but can be used to dent Gligar and other Grass-, Flying-, and Ground-type threats.

Checks & Counters
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**Taunt**: Taunt shuts down Bronzong, prevent it from utilizing its support moves and forcing it out in most cases.

**Xatu**: Xatu's Magic Bounce ability prevents Bronzong from using Stealth Rock or any status moves, effectively forcing it to attack or switch out.

**Doublade**: Doublade can set up Swords Dance on Bronzong with ease, benefits from Trick Room, and isn't really affected by anything Bronzong can do.

**Reuniclus**: Reuniclus also benefits from Trick Room, can set up Calm Mind, and doesn't take damage from Toxic due to its Magic Guard ability.

**Fire-types**: Moltres in particular does not really fear anything from Bronzong except for Toxic or Explosion, due to its resistance to Gyro Ball and immunity to Earthquake. Other Fire-types must watch out for Earthquake, but once they come in they can force Bronzong out with a strong STAB move.

**Slowking and Clawitzer** Slowking and Clawitzer do not fear much except for Toxic, but they can either force it Bronzong out with a super effective coverage move or wear it down with Scald burns.

**Spiritomb** Spiritomb can trap Bronzong and ignore its screens with Infiltrator, while easily taking anything Bronzong has to hit it with.

**Escavalier** Escavalier takes almost nothing from any of Bronzong's attacks and can easily threaten it out with Knock Off or set up on it.

**Eelektross**: Eelektross's is immune to Earthquake thanks to Levitate, and it also resists Gyro Ball due to its Electric typing. It can then force Bronzong out with Knock Off or Flamethrower, or gain momentum with Volt Switch.

2/2
 
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