1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Can the "Slender Make-up 3" item from Join Avenue recreate the Pomeg Glitch?

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Zowayix, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    With B2/W2 released in English and more people being able to access the games, I thought I'd repost this.

    Recall that at Lv100, a Pomeg Berry causes HP to lower by 2 points (10 EVs). Both max HP and current HP are affected, so a Pokemon with (200/400) HP would drop to (198/398).

    The glitch in Gen III occured when a Pokemon had either 2 or 1 current HP when the Pomeg Berry was used, causing 2/400 to become 0/398 (fainting without whiting out) or 1/400 to become -1/398 or 65535/398.

    The glitch was somewhat shoddily "fixed" in Gen IV by making current HP not drop if it was 3 or lower, so 4/400 would still be 2/398, while 3/400 would become 3/398. However, since in Gen IV Pomeg Berries can drop EVs all the way from 255 to 100 in one use, it was still possible to go from 37/400 to -1/362.

    It was "fixed" again in B/W, not by altering how HP dropped, but just by making EVs always drop by 10, so current HP would never lower by more than 3. This prevents any effects of the Pomeg Glitch from occuring.

    But now in B2/W2, the item "Slender Make-up 3" removes all of a Pokemon's HP EVs at once. What I am interested in finding out is, given a Lv100 Pokemon with 252 HP EVs, how does this item affect current and max HP?

    Here are some possibilities:
    - The best one; Game Freak has done nothing since B/W's mechanics change, allowing 62/400 to become -1/337.
    - Current HP no longer lowers if it is 63 or lower, therefore causing 62/400 to become 62/337. However, what would this do to a Lv10 Pokemon with 39/40 HP and 252 HP EVs? Does it become 39/34 HP or 34/34 HP?
    - The most disappointing one, HP is recalculated so that the percentage remaining stays the same. 62/400 (15.5%) becomes 52/377 (~15.4%).

    As I do not own or have the money to buy B2/W2, nor do I know enough about the Join Avenue mechanics, I cannot test this myself. Would anyone be willing to try it out?
  2. Pika25

    Pika25

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    959
    Someone had better test it out.
  3. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Bump.

    With B2/W2 out for some time now, there's got to be someone out there with the capability to test this.
  4. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
    i have an english bw2 rom and could pokegen anything, mind describing exactly what you'd want me to do?
  5. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    @JacobNinja: Thank you very much! I don't know if PokeGen supports B2/W2-exclusive items though.

    Here:
    - Get a Lv100 Pokemon with 252 HP EVs, other than Shedinja.
    - Get it to exactly 62 HP remaining. Remember its max HP.
    - Use the "Slender Make-up 3".
    - What is its current and max HP now?

    Further steps will depend on the answer to that last question.
  6. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Bump.

    The game's been out in English for almost two months; there have got to be at least a few people with the resources to test this out by now.
  7. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
    Tonight I'll just hack in some of them
  8. KnivesInAToaster

    KnivesInAToaster

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Good question, actually. First time I heard of the 'Pomeg glitch' but... immortal Pokemon in a sense? That's a scary thought.
  9. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    This also greatly interests me, bumping to raise awareness. Also, would this HP glitch be fixed if you took a Pokemon to the Pokemon Center after activating it?
  10. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    HP over the max has always been restored to max after using a Pokemon Center no matter which game, so I would assume so.

    Supposing that this works, what I'm more interested in is the side effects that can be caused by it.
    In Gen III, there were a huge number of side effects, most notably allowing genderless or male-only Pokemon to get their level-up moves in Little Cup. You could also cause numerous non-competitive-related glitches, including sending out a Bad Egg, sending out your opponent's Pokemon, glitching up the opponent's sprite, and even changing the nickname of your opponent's Pokemon.
    In Gen IV, the side effects were limited to being able to send out index number #000 (actual name -----, often called "DPBox").

    Of course, it would suck if Game Freak fixed it. But judging by their very shoddy attempts to "fix" (more like work around) it in previous generations, it's possible that they haven't done anything since B/W.
  11. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    I have the Pokemon with which to test this but not the Rank 10 Salon. If somebody hasn't gotten around to it before I put up a Salon and grinding it to rank 10, I'll help.
  12. Quanyails

    Quanyails
    is an Artistis a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Got a Shaymin from whoknowswhen which is level 100, with 252 EVs in HP (and other stats, but that's negligible). Got it to 22/402 from Morimoto and used Berry Juice to get it to 62/402.

    Tried out Slender Makeup 3 in my Join Avenue.

    Results? My Shaymin has 62/339 HP.
  13. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,702
    Awww :<

    BS. Thanks Quanyails for trying it anyway! :>
  14. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Damn it. Looks like they did fix it, and not in the way I expected, either.

    Can you try the following, also?
    - Does 63/402 become 63/339? (My guess: Yes)
    - Does 64/402 become 64/339, or 1/339?

    - If the former, does 339/402 become 339/339?
    - Try it on, say, a Lv10 Pokemon with 48/50 HP remaining and 252 HP EVs. Does it become 42/44, 44/44, or 48/44?
  15. Quanyails

    Quanyails
    is an Artistis a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Strange what I use my free time for, eh?

    63/402 --> 63/339

    64/402 --> 64/339

    339/402 --> 339/339

    Edit: Random DW Lapras with 252 HP EVs, here we go!

    53/55 --> 48/48
  16. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    339
    Well damn, looks like they did patch all the holes I can think of. No doubt it's going to stay this way for future games also. Crap. :(

    EDIT: Really quick and dumb question since I don't have my game with me right now. Does using a Rare Candy or HP Up adjust current HP, or no? Ex. Does 150/160 become 151/161 or 150/161? This should be a very fast test.
  17. Present

    Present

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Rare Candy's do raise your current hp
  18. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,597
    I'm not sure how relevant is this, but I found out that if you gain enough HP EVs in a trainer battle (or a wild double battle) to increase your max HP by 1, then it will be applied... during the battle. This can lead to a strange scenario where the HP on the top screen (the battle screen) is different from the bottom screen where you select your Pokemon to use items on/switch pokemon out.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)