CAP 21 CAP 21 - Part 9 - Moveset Discussion

[jas61292]

Welcome to the Moveset Discussion. As this is only the second project using our new moveset discussion, it is especially importanat to make sure you are familiar with all the rules outlined in this post. Be sure to pay attention to what our movepool leader HeaLnDeaL has to say in this thread, as he will be leading the discussion and making the calls on which movesets we will ultimately be going with.

In this stage, we are determining the required and disallowed competitive moves by creating a list of approved movesets. The movesets will be decided based on the competitive needs and limitations of this project. We are not submitting full movepools at this time. There will be a later stage for movepool submissions (level-up sets, egg moves, etc) once the required and disallowed moves have been determined via the accepted movesets.

Moveset Discussion Rules & Guidelines

There should be four kinds of posts in the thread:

• Moveset Submissions
• Moveset Edits/Option Submissions
• General Commentary
• Section Leader/Topic Leader Announcements/Updates

This means that no moves can be suggested or commented on unless they are part of a full competitive moveset submission or suggested as a additional option for one or more previous movesets. Any recommendations to disallow certain moves should only be in reference to moves contained in previously posted movesets.

The general flow of this thread should go like this:

1. People post moveset submissions in a prescribed format (see below)
2. Other people suggest to add/remove moves or other options to previously posted movesets (see below)
3. Other people propose edits to the descriptive information with previously posted movesets
4. Other people comment on the competitive pros and cons of previously posted movesets, additions/removals, and proposed edits
5. Continuously over the course of the thread, the movepool leader updates the first post in the thread with the "currently accepted" movesets and other information related to the status of the intelligent community consensus (see below)

By the end of this discussion thread, we should have the following outputs:

• The top post in the thread (maintained by the Movepool Leader) will contain a list of all edited, approved movesets
• The top post will list controversial movesets and/or optional moves that need to be voted on by the community

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Moveset Submissions

Movesets should be posted in the following format:

Moveset Submission

Name: Choice Band
Move 1: Flare Blitz
Move 2: Sucker Punch
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Stone Edge
Ability: Guts
Item: Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly

• Because of CAP X's Fire typing, Flare Blitz does a lot of damage.
• Sucker Punch allows it priority, as well as the ability to handle Slowking.
• Stone Edge allows it to OHKO Talonflame
• U-Turn can be used to scout, as well as abuse predicted switches.
• Choice Band is used to amplify damage, and fulfil CAP X's role as a wallbreaker
• In case CAP X gets hit by status conditions, Guts raises its damage output to even higher levels.

Copyable template

[B]Moveset Submission[/B]

Name:
Move 1:
Move 2:
Move 3:
Move 4:
Ability: (optional)
Item: (optional)
EVs: (optional)
Nature: (optional)
[LIST]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[/LIST]

Please keep to the above format so the movepool leader can easily see which posts in the thread are proposing new moveset submissions, and can easily locate the information when updating the top post in the thread.

Ability, Item, EVs, and Nature are optional. All that is required are four moves, a name, and some descriptive information (in bullet form).

Any suggested moveset posted without any reasonable description will be deleted by the moderators. People should not spam movesets, post without checking the movesets already submitted, or post movesets without thinking them through.

Although we are not posting movesets in the full C&C analysis format, you should generally adhere to C&C standards where it makes sense. While there will not be excessively strict moderation on this, use common sense. Don't get too slash-happy with moves, no stupid names, use proper spelling and grammar, etc. These movesets will be put on the CAP subsite immediately at the end of the CAP for the playtest.

If you are unsure of the optimal ability, item, EVs, or nature -- you can leave it out and it can be edited in later over the course of the thread. By the end of the thread, every accepted moveset should be filled in completely. That doesn't mean we need to be 100% sure of every aspect of the moveset. It's fine if we go with our best guess and leave it to the playtest to optimize it.


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Moveset Edits/Option Submissions

Edits/options should be made by copying the most recent version of the moveset and description into an unattributed quote tags ([ QUOTE][ /QUOTE]). Then make any edits, additions, or replacements in bold text, removals should be in strike-through text. The most recent copy should taken from the top post or from the original submission post, depending on whichever one is most current.

Posters can and should comment on the reasoning and background for any proposed edits outside of Quote tags. Simple wording or spelling corrections do not need any explanation or commentary.

Additional move proposals must be made in the context of one or more movesets. The user cannot simply post "I suggest we add Taunt as an option to all non-choiced movesets", for example.


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Movepool Leader/Topic Leader Posts

The first post under the OP is reserved by the Movepool Leader, and will serve as the reference post for the current status of the discussion.

When the Movepool Leader determines that a moveset, option, or edit is accepted by intelligent community consensus, they will add/update a list of "Approved Movesets" in the first post. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add every submission to the first post automatically, simply because it was posted in the thread. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add a submission to the first post if it was not actively accepted by intelligent community consensus. "Lack of any response" is not the same as "acceptance". As with all CAP discussion threads, the leader should always use their best judgement.

If a proposal has received significant intelligent feedback (positive or negative), but it has not yet reached consensus, the Movepool leader should add it to an "Under Consideration" list in the first post. If the thread ends with controversial items that can't reach consensus, they will go to a community poll. In most cases, the "Under Consideration" list should be comprised of full movesets or additional option proposals. Edits to the description of most movesets, probably will not require extensive discussion or polling.

As the Movepool Leader makes updates to the first post, they should also post announcements in the thread indicating what they have added or updated. This will allow active discussion participants to easily track the progress of the thread. The Topic Leader should also post regular feedback in the thread, like every other competitive discussion.

---

CAP21 so far:

Typing: Rock/Poison
Abilities:
Base - Regenerator / Mold Breaker
Mega - Magic Guard
Stats:
106/105/65/75/85/104 > 106/135/75/85/125/114

Leadership Team:

jas61292 - Topic Leader
imanalt - Typing Leader
DetroitLolcat - Abilities Leader
sparktrain (aka nerd) - Stats Leader
HeaLnDeaL (aka loser) - Movepool Leader

Concept:

Name: Typing Underdog

General Description: A Pokémon which utilizes an undervalued typing to its full potential, by playing towards both its strengths and weaknesses.

Justification: Each typing possesses a unique set of characteristics, causing all of them to perform very differently in various aspects of battle. However, not every typing has been granted the opportunity to display this potential, being forced into suboptimal roles by virtue of stats, ability and movepool, and therefore often being labelled as “bad”.
This concept aims to do a detailed analysis on the primary function of such a typing along with its potentially unexplored capabilities, by creating a Pokémon that that emphasizes the typing’s most prominent traits and utilizes them effectively.
This approach will not only allow us to widen our understanding on the unique niche and preferred playstyle of the typing, but will also give us additional insight on the mechanics that lead to success and failure of the typing when comparing CAP to the wielders in the lower tiers.

Questions to be answered:

• What are the most important traits the Pokémon gains from the chosen typing, both positive and negative?
• Is quality or quantity of weaknesses/resistances/immunities more relevant to the chosen typing? What does this mean for the way it is played?
• How significant is the niche provided by the typing in OU? Are there any striking flaws in the typing that can’t be played around and prevent the Pokémon from performing reliably?
• How reliant is the typing on stats, ability and movepool in order to succeed in OU?
• Are the unique characteristics granted by the typing enough to set the Pokemon apart, or does it face strong competition for its role from Pokémon of other types?
• Is there any distinct playstyle that suits the chosen typing the best? Or can the same typing be utilized in an entirely different approach to similar success?
• How important is a type’s versatility for its overall success?
• Is a single Pokémon capable of portraying most relevant aspects of the entire type?

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

-Moveset submissions are currently Open-
Currently Accepted:

Name: All-Out Attacker
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Wood Hammer / U-turn
Move 4: Low Kick / U-turn
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Crucibellite
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

Name: Offensive Utility
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: U-turn / Low Kick / Wood Hammer
Move 4: Stealth Rock / Nuzzle?
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Crucibellite
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

Under Consideration:

Some sort of Choice Scarf Set for the base

Moves I want more discussion on:
-Bulk Up
-Hone Claws
-Coil
-Rock Polish
-Reflect
-Taunt
-Encore
-Knock Off
-Trick

Moves we have decided NOT to allow on sets so far:
-Special Attacking Coverage (our physical options should vastly outclass these)
-Spikes
-Parting Shot
-Volt Tackle
-Sticky Web
-Jump Kick
-High Jump Kick
-Sacred Sword
-Drain Punch

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, it's time we get (vol)crackin' on the last of our competitive stages for this CAP!

I want to start of this thread a tiny bit differently than how it went last CAP. Before jumping directly into letting people suggest movesets, I think it would be best for us to have a discussion on what type of moveset(s) we want this CAP to have in the first place. In particular, I think we've finally reached a point where we have to figure out how to interpret the "utility counter" portion of this CAP's concept.

So, moving forward, we should aim to work towards the goal of making some sort of utility counter. We won't be able to say exactly which Pokemon we are going to try and take on until we choose a typing, but we will need to focus on the ability to deal with a number of threats, despite being weak to a large number of others. Our aim should be to handle a specific set of Pokemon, and simply having enough tools to not be dead weight when not in a good matchup. We don't need to, and should not be aiming to negate the downsides of our type, but rather, we need to simply have ways to stay out of situations where those downsides can really cost the Pokemon.

What an actual utility counter even does is something that is not particularly clear; jas chose this direction in with contrast to the revenge killer role, which is much more easily defined. If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

If you haven't read the OU Pokemon Terminology post already, I highly recommend that you go through the roles listed here. Many of the roles explained in the post might fall into our conception of what a utility mon or a utility counter is, but note that utility itself is not explicitly explained. What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?

Keep in mind that at this stage we should NOT be talking about allowing or disallowing certain moves. In order to follow this as a basic guideline, please frame your discussion under the basis of the overall structure of the moveset(s) we want. Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories? Note that in the end, we very well might have multiple "answers" to this question. Similarly, are there any roles listed in the link above that seem to particularly stand out as being relevant for this CAP?

Also note that we might not be limited to having only one moveset. The Mega might have more than one set... but what of the Base CAP? Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own? It may or may not be the best time to answer this question now, and I might bring up this point later again, but I think it is still something highly relevant that should be considered, and I wouldn't mind a somewhat separate discussion on this to start to bubble on the back burner at this time.

For now, the overall discussion I'm asking for is somewhat vague, partly due to the Movesets Rules that disallow talking about the banning of certain moves prior to them being suggested in a formal moveset (and we are not at the point where movesets can be submitted). This discussion for now is not one about specific and individual moves, but rather on the generalities regarding what type of moveset(s) we want this CAP to have, so please frame your points in specific reference to movesets instead of singular moves.

 

[acidphoenix]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

Well:

Keeping in mind that anything with 112 or less BAP will be outdamaged by Head Smash on a hit with a one-type effectiveness difference, and the same for Gunk Shot at 90 BAP:
It doesn't really matter what coverage we give it for targets that are hit neutrally by Head Smash as, generally, it is already going to outdamage. So, the question becomes, what Pokemon that resist our STABs do we want to be able to hit effectively?

A list of things B- or higher on the viability rankings that resist our STABs, with things we are supposed to beat bolded and things that should beat us italicized:

list

Bisharp
Excadrill
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Metagross
Magnezone
Klefki
Jirachi
Diggersby
Terrakion
Gastrodon
Swampert
Lucario
Magneton
Empoleon
Toxicroak

As you may have noticed there's a lot of things on there that are italicized and literally nothing bolded. Out of the unitalicized Pokemon:

The most notable threats on the list that we need to be careful when deciding what coverage moves to give CAP21 are Bisharp, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Metagross, Swampert, Magnezone, and Diggersby.
Most other Pokemon on the list are either: a. offensive, and would likely not be able to take a strong, albeit resisted, hit, or b. have any problems with coverage CAP21 might run already shared with a more common Pokemon already on the above list. Due to this, I believe we should be careful about giving CAP21 strong Fighting-, Fire-, Grass-, Ground-, or Ice-type coverage. Other than these, overall, I see no problem with whatever types of moves it may be able to learn.


For boosting moves:
We are already fast, and have a speed stat pigeonholed specifically to what we want to be able/unable to beat. We should definitely avoid moves along the lines of Dragon Dance and Shift Gear, and possibly also avoid generally any boosting move that boosts Speed. I don't see non-Speed-boosting moves as becoming an issue to our threatlist, overall.

For 'is this a utility counter':

It definitely needs utility moves. As-is, we have Pokemon that we will always lose to, and Pokemon that we will always beat, and a Pokemon that selection in our other two moveslots (after HSmash / Gunk Shot) will decide whether we beat. What utility moves we give the CAP will decide what range of Pokemon it can be specifically tailored to beat, and utility does a better job at fulfilling the concept imo than coveragespam.

For the second question: see the above.

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?

I'd argue that explicitly setting a template for the moves that we want hurts our utility, and that for move categories, generally any combination will be fine and only the specific moves should be looked at carefully.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
A better question would be, 'Can we give the Base CAP a movepool that allows it to be at least viable in OU without making the Mega overpowering?' Which means that I'd agree we should wait until after we start actually taking individual movesets/moves under consideration before analyzing this question.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?

I'd argue that explicitly setting a template for the moves that we want hurts our utility, and that for move categories, generally any combination will be fine and only the specific moves should be looked at carefully.

I'd hate to single out you so early, but seeing as you're the only one to reply so far and I don't think I can afford to be a wait-and-see type of TLT at the moment, I think that this is something that should be addressed. Quite frankly I think this is one of the more concrete questions and is quite important for us to discuss before I am willing to open up the floodgates of submissions, and that sentence dodges the importance. As I said in my previous post, there very well may be more than one answer to this question. But saying there's more than one good answer is different than saying that we shouldn't even try to find what some of the suitable answers might be. I also don't see how setting a template (or multiple templates) hurts our utility at all, and you don't explain how a template does this at all. At the end of this stage, we will have a limited number of competitive movesets and those movesets will be what determines our utility. Templates like this are used for analyzing the types of move combinations we want in our movesets or even in the inverse direction to see which kinds of combinations we *don't* want. Not every answer to this question has to be a super concrete "We want STAB/STAB/Utility/Utility" or "STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility" or "STAB/STAB/Boosting Move/Utility" (note that these are used merely as examples). But some sort of indication, such as "we probably should have a main set with at least one utility move" or "we should have a main set that doesn't use four powerful attacking moves" are inherently more useful answers than avoiding the question entirely. Part of this question also deals with how a moveset can even be arranged to come up with a "utility" Pokemon, as there has been debate in the past on this subject already.

I realize we're dealing with different levels of vagueness at this point since we can't deal with very specific moves quite yet, but I'd like some sort of vague direction before opening these floodgates and letting everything in. We don't need an extremely defining filter, but eliminating people from suggesting everything and anything under the sun is a good start.

 

[WhiteDMist]

I think it is most important to define "utility counter" for the purposes of this CAP. The way I've seen it since we decided to go in this direction, a utility counter is a Pokemon that counters a unique set of Pokemon, niche or not, while providing support for its team when facing Pokemon it does not counter/checks or counters it completely. This influenced how I voted so far, and I feel like I missed an opportunity to request that the community define this more in-depth for this CAP specifically.

There are likely a few different ways a utility counter can work. The most general definition I see is that they work as an offensive tank, investing in their bulk/relying on their typing to switch in on the Pokemon it counters, and then using its mid-to-high offensive power to hit anything coming in hard. Such a Pokemon may also be able to fit one or two support or status moves, in order to not be forced out by Pokemon that counter it without leaving at least a small mark. Pokemon like Celebi work this way, using its typing to handle specific threats and threatening its switch-ins with Thunder Wave, setting up Stealth Rock, or Baton Passing to maintain offensive momentum.

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?
In terms of coverage, a utility counter should have coverage only to beat a specific Pokemon, or small set of Pokemon, but fails against others. With only its STABs, our CAP except Steel-types and Ground-types pretty hard as is. Ground-types are actually a bit less effective because they can be poisoned by the CAP's Poison-type moves as well. The fact that quite a few Steel-types are actually hit neutrally by Rock-type moves also means that only certain Steel-types can truly counter this CAP. If the CAP gets coverage moves, it shouldn't be able to hits the perfect counters super effectively at all. At best, a coverage move should hit a Pokemon that the STAB moves don't hit super-effectively, but are used more as an accurate alternative move rather than specific coverage; this is namely because a neutral Head Smash outdamages a lot of coverage moves already.

Boosting moves are pretty unnecessary, as suddenly you see how potent this CAP's STAB combination is. With our Atk and Speed so high in the Mega form, and still decently high in the base form, it can easily switch to being a sweeper. Now, this technically would still be within the range of the original concept, making the most use of the poor typing in an offensive capacity; but since the community decided in the utility counter approach, I think this ends up being more of a deviation from the path we were set on.

Utility moves are the best option, as they do not move the direction of this CAP too far. Rather than counter a specific Pokemon/typing, utility moves support the rest of the team by giving them an easier time when the CAP is forced out (as it should be due to its mostly poor defensive typing). As a side note, utility moves benefit from Mold Breaker the best, as piercing through Magic Bounce is a pretty interesting and unique niche.

What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?
I've sort of defined it already, but my view would be that the CAP should limit itself to its STAB moves (as we intentionally directed it towards both Head Smash and possibly Gunk Shot) since we are still focusing on the advantages of the typing. Sure, it will likely still have some minor coverage moves as an option, but these moves shouldn't complete its overall coverage in any way: at best, they hit a couple of specific Pokemon harder than its STABs, but this is likely to completely disregard the checks and counters list we decided upon. My thought would be these coverage moves will mostly be an accurate alternative to spamming Head Smash, even though Head Smash would hit just as hard otherwise. The remaining useful moves should be focused on overall utility, but not actually allow it to break through its decided counters (annoy them at best).

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?
Repeating myself, but I think STABs + two utility moves look to best best. Of course, utility moves is a huge generalization that includes offensive moves such as Knock Off. I'm think more along the lines of status or team support moves, rather than offensive utility.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
Even though we are focusing more on the Mega form, the base CAP should still at least be able to venture its own set. How viable it is is outside of my scope of knowledge, but having at least one viable base form option can up the viability of the CAP overall without distracting too much from the concept. I'm thinking something to make use of Mold Breaker tbh, since focusing on Regenerator will distract from the focus on the Mega form.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?
I am thinking STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility is a good set, but obviously there will be alternatives. I mean, I feel the biggest boon of Mold Breaker in base form is Toxic, and Mold Breaker seems like the more Utility-Oriented move of CAP 21's base. But the Mega seems like with it's speed, special defense, and attack stats, it seems as if you could happily run STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility because you could take more advantage of that healthy attack stat. For example, we might just mean something like EQ as coverage to hit grounded steel types, who otherwise completely and utterly wall this CAP.
Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
I think that Mold Breaker base form will be a more defensive set, with Focus Sash suicide lead, leftovers, or so on. The stats and ability lend it good utility capabilities. The Mega seems more like a Mega Manectric or Mega Lopunny, where they get really fast and have a rocketing attack/sp. attack stat. Something we will want to have more offensive. So yeah, defensive sets for the base CAP maybe?

 

[WhiteDMist]

But why do we want this CAP to be unwallable? We still need to be threatened by Steel-types, and we significantly reduce their threat level if they suddenly cannot safely switch in on the CAP (who has Head Smash and Gunk Shot, brutally high powered STAB moves, as possible moves). A utility move that doubles as an offensive move might be worth looking at, such as Knock Off, Clear Smog, Lava Plume, or Acid Spray. Same as coverage moves that hit something that Head Smash already hurts, just more reliably, might be ok; it's just tough to find such moves that don't have unintentional coverage. Having utility moves doesn't force the CAP into defensive sets/EVs; the offensive pressure the CAP has should give the free turns needed to use utility moves.

 

[NumberCruncher]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

Boosting is probably something we should avoid doing, given that we already do a needless amount to our counters with Head Smash already, and we probably shouldn't be boosting our speed any higher than it is right now, or nothing is going to outspeed us. Coverage is also tricky. There are very few moves in the game that will actually ever hit harder than either Head Smash or Gunk Shot. Likewise, we can't actually use Head Smash and Gunk Shot liberally, because their PP is way too low. Basically, we're probably going to need to fill its slots with utility moves to make it useful.

What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?

Really, the only way we could make this Pokemon's best use more obvious is if we literally named it "Pivot McTurnvolt". It has very good switch-in opportunities, but needs to switch out often. It's immune to hazards. It's good against both the pokemon that threaten Rotom and the pokemon that threaten Landorus. It supports VoltTurn compatriot Ferrothorn by beating Fire-types. It's fast and hits hard. This is the role this mon was born to play.

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?

STAB/STAB/Offensive Utility/Offensive Utility seems to be the way to go. Our stats allow us to keep pressure on the opponent on switches, and our typing means we'll lose if we can't keep up the pressure.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?

That's actually a good question, as Head Smash might be harder to justify on the base form, which actually opens up a need for coverage. It's certainly something worth considering.

 

[Alfalfa]

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?
In all reality, I think that a simple STAB / STAB / coverage / utility is all that is necessary. However, when considering coverage + utility, let's try not to make the utility aimed at entirely screwing over this CAP's checks, since coverage already pressures them. Instead, the utility should be aimed at Pokemon we want this CAP to threaten, especially the small number of them that can stomach the CAP's STABs unfazed. Stockpiling coverage + utility for the purpose of pressuring the CAP's checks, will nullify all but a handful of defensive checks; therefore, we should avoid coverage + utility from being aimed directly that the mons that check this CAP, but coverage at a small handful of defensive checks and utility at mons we want to threaten but may not be able to threaten with raw power alone.

WhiteDMist let's try not to ignore this CAP's offensive flaws, for we tried to balance Naviathan's strengths and flaws and failed horribly at it because it was too weak in the physical offense factor. Earthquake does remove every Steel off walling this CAP except for Leftovers Skarmory and Ferrothorn, but we do need our CAP to have some form of counterplay against Steels so its raw strengths are not completely nullified.

 

[EternalSnowman]

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
Gonna make this short because I don't have much time. I think that the base CAP should get a mention, as it has an important defensive ability. It could function as a defensive pivot or use its Mold Breaker to set up vs. Magic Bouncers like MSab or others. In this way, its utility and defenisve capabilities are much stronger than its Mega form. Offensively it would be lackluster, but a boosting move with Mold Breaker could be viable depending on the coverage it is given.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

Our CAPs potential for coverage isn't really the best, as our main STAB moves already do a lot of damage to most of the Pokemon that we need to hit them with. I pretty much agree with Alfalfa on the point that we shouldn't necessarily be hard walled by Steels and maybe grounds, but at the same time we should be very careful on how we deal with them.

As for boosting moves, I am really not a fan of them, we already do a shit ton of damage and are pretty fast already, and our Special Bulk would be absolutely broken on a Sweeper.

In order to be a utility counter, we do need to have some more utility moves in order to preform that role. One thing that concerns me heavily is the fact that Choice Band Talonflame has the ability to 2HKO us if we aren't mega evolved or are at almost full HP, which is a lot if we are trying to counter it. This is probably the most extreme example, but there are other situations of this happening, and we should have some coverage and/or utility moves in order to deal with these situations accordingly.

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?
Honestly, I think we should focus on doing STAB/STAB/Utility/Coverage or Utility. There are situations were having a Utility move is necessary, and others were having a Coverage move would be necessary. It would be best if we allow ourselves to interchange our moveset for our needs, instead of just having a concrete moveset.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
The base set should probably have a couple sets of its own. It would be a real shame If we let Mold Breaker and to a lesser extent Regenerator go to waste. Also, if we are trying to explore the process of Mega Evolution, I think it would be a good idea to explore the Pokemon both as its base form and as its Mega Form

 

[Empress]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

A true utility counter is defined by its ability to take on a wide variety of threats, but not all at once. As for how it fulfills that role, despite having the word "utility" in the name, it doesn't necessarily have to use utility moves in order to get there. In fact, we could, on paper, simply run STAB / STAB / coverage / coverage, tailoring the two coverage moves to beat threats that we want CAP 21 to have a chance against. Moreover, even though we, ideally, want CAP 21 to lose to Steel- and Ground-types, being able to do literally nothing to a pair of very potent types in the metagame would be a huge dagger in its viability; we don't want it to lose so hard to these Pokemon that it has trouble making a niche for itself in the metagame. What coverage types we pick will be determined later, and we definitely don't want CAP 21 to be unwallable, but leaving it a sitting duck to two prominent types in OU no matter what is a bad idea.

In terms of boosting moves, I don't really see a need for them. CAP 21 has great offensive stats for a sweeper, and giving it a boosting move creates potential for abuse. Not only that, but if CAP 21 is powerful enough, it'll be able to take on many, many more threats at once than it should be able to by using sheer power alone. How many more threats CAP 21 will be able to muscle through with a Swords Dance or Dragon Dance under its belt remains to be seen, but there are other ways of dwindling its pool of checks without possibly deviating from the concept or making CAP 21 too generally good.

Now onto utility moves. While, as I said, CAP 21 can function as a utility counter without utility moves in a vacuum, in practice it'll want to tailor what it can counter depending on the teammates it's paired up with. As such, having utility moves would be great for its teammates, possibly giving them a better time at wearing down the Pokemon that CAP 21 itself can't wear down. They can also help CAP 21 directly, whether it be U-turning out of Ground- or Steel-types or using Mold Breaker Taunt or Toxic to shut down Mega Sableye, among other things, and are less "abusive" overall than powerful coverage moves.

(Mods: if the segment in red cuts it too close to "discussing specific moves," feel free to delete it.)

What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?

Utility is a broad term, but I define it as "means to wear down or otherwise threaten opposing Pokemon besides dealing direct damage." This can be anything from CAP 21 directly crippling (not attacking) foes or providing opportunities for its teammates to do the same. If we decide to stick to the literal definition of utility when defining "utility counter," we absolutely need to tailor CAP 21's moveset to deal with what we want it to. Like DPM said, something that can help our matchup with Talonflame could be what CAP 21 needs, and there are many other ways for CAP 21 to do something to its counters, though that's to be discussed later. Overall, the ability to "annoy" the things that we don't want to outright beat can be critical for CAP 21, possibly shaping how it can support its team.

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?

Yeah, this seems like a reasonable way to go. Even STAB / STAB / utility / utility could work. While STAB / STAB / coverage / coverage is definitely usable and pro-concept in the literal sense, we run the risk of making CAP 21 unwallable or close to unwallable, which we do not want. As such, I would rather define the "utility counter" role to CAP 21's team instead of itself. But if we'd rather have CAP 21 be self-sufficient, than a coverage move (or two) is not out of the question. I don't think there's really a concrete answer to this question yet, as there are various ways to go about tailoring CAP 21's moveset while remaining in the scope of the concept.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?

Not the right time to answer this question. In fact, doing a separate discussion on the base forme's movesets may be the way to go. While making stat spreads, it was quite difficult to make the base and Mega stat spreads concurrently; as a result, I made the Mega spread first and then made the base spread, which is what many others did as well. We should focus on the Mega forme's sets right now and concentrate on the base forme's sets after we have done that.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?
I would say that we still want decent coverage. There are some threats that we will NEED to be able to hurt, or CAP 21 will not be viable in the OU meta. Several previous CAPs were not particularly viable due to various reasons, so I think maybe we should try to be a little more careful with making this one comparatively viable, but not over centralizing like Mega Salamence :P. Few Pokemon outside of raw utility Pokemon for status moves/hazards carry no coverage. For boosting moves, I feel there are there are only 3 stats this Pokemon might be wanting to boost: Attack (BDrum, DD, SD, BulkUp and others), Defense (IronD, BulkUp, Harden, etc), or speed (Agility, DD, Rock Polish). Attack boost moves might end up making a broken CAP. Defense and Speed boosting I see as viable here though. There are many counters to CAP 21 that we won't be able to touch, even with coverage and even with +1 Defense or +1 Speed.
I have some damage calculations for some of these threats below, assuming CAP is in Mega form.

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There are many counters to CAP 21 that we won't be able to touch, even with coverage and even with +1 Defense or +1 Speed. I have some damage calculations for some of these threats below, assuming CAP is in Mega form. No priority really OHKOs it outright, in Mega form at least. Scizor and Azumarill both have a 75% chance of netting a priority OHKO on the base form. Choice Scarf users may be murder to us, especially Garchomp who sometimes runs scarf.

-Bullet Punch Scizor (Base/Mega)
-Aqua Jet Azumarill
- Mach Punch users (Conkeldurr and Breloom)
-Sucker Punch Bisharp
- Unaware Quagsire (Becoming more common)

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 306-360 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (OHKOs on a crit)

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 306-360 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (OHKOs on a crit)

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 205-243 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solosis: 174-205 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solosis: 211-250 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think this CAP is most definitely NOT defined as a utility counter. Depending on it's moveset, and as it is not going to be a revenge-killer, it could be an excellent pivot, sweeper, or utility/utility counter Pokemon.
By utility I mean Toxic, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, all them typical utility moves. I hope it will not need to rely on utility moves to get it's job done, but I don't think it will need to rely on utility moves. I think Toxic will be our CAP's go-to answer for bulky ground types it can't break down/muscle through, like Lead Garchomp, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. Gliscor is the one non-steel type that I don't know how in the world CAP 21 could counter, except MAYBE muscling through with Head Smash in Mega form.

 

[KhosroTheGreat]

If we are *not* a revenge killer, what does that say about our CAPs potential for coverage? For boosting moves? Is this CAP already defined as a utility counter due to its typing, stats, and abilities, or does it need utility moves in order to do its job?

Coverage is an area we should be very careful about, given that STAB Head Smash and Gunk Shot hit so many things so hard already. Hence, we should be prudent to ensure that our CAP won't effectively take out something every time it switches We should consider that many Steel- and Ground-types, such as Lando-T, Scizor and Skarmory, which are meant to be solid counters to us actually have secondary typings which make Head Smash neutral, limiting their ability to wall CAP21. Fighting-, Fire-, Grass-, Ground-, or Ice-type coverage, in particular (as mentioned by acidpheonix), are moves we should think twice about before we give them to CAP21.

Boosting is exactly the same as coverage, because it essentially turns Head Smash and Gunk Shot into monstrous killing machines. For example, iirc, I saw a calc which showed that a +1 Head Smash will OHKO Mega Scizor and has a chance to OHKO bulky variants too, and I don't believe this is something we should be doing. The only boosting moves that CAP21 should think of getting are purely defensive ones, such as Cosmic Power, although this may be questionable due to the highly offensive nature of the CAP.

I think that we already (sort of) are a utility counter to Talonflame and Clefable, but CAP 21 needs something to jusify its Mega Slot and its role over Heatran. It already has hugely impressive offensive capabilities, and so I think we should focus on utility moves that give CAP21 a niche or a boost in viability. Hence, STABs + 2 Utility moves is probably the moveset we should aim for, in my opinion.

What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?
I agree with WhiteDMist's view that we should generally keep our main offensive capabailities to our impressive STAB combination, and hence Utility Moves such Knock Off, Clear Smog, Lava Plume, Acid Spray, Foul Play, Toxic, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes etc. could give our CAP the ability to support the team as a whole when its STAB combination is shut down. Lava Plume is probably not a good idea, even with a lower SpA, due to its typing and the overwhelming usefulness of burns, especially on a CAP with good HP and SpD.

NumberCruncher mentioned CAP21's ability to pivot, and this is certainly true. Magic Guard and Regen are about as good as it gets for pivot abilities, and we already have the speed, bulk and offensive prowess to function as an offensive pivot that forces switches. Unlike U-turn and Baton Pass which essentially give CAP21 free rein to wreak havoc, Volt Switch is shut down by Ground-types, limiting ourselves while still giving us precious momentum. It also utilises our weaker SpA, which stops it from being too powerful. The main point of concern here is Volt Switch essentially takes Steel-types out of the equation by forcing them in using the threat of its Head Smash and then pivoting out. CAP21 possesses a combination of speed, power and bulk that makes it already quite fearsome, and no other Mega really possesses pivoting moves as well as being fast, powerful and having decent bulk. Hence, pivoting moves may be a step too far.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with the utility moves that were mentioned earlier, and these moves give CAP21 the boost in viability it needs while balancing its impressively powerful. We have plenty of options to choose from, although I think Haze or Encore may be better options than Clear Smog, as it allows us to not entirely be set up fodder for Steel types. Similarly, moves like Knock Off and Foul Play prevent Steel- and Ground-types from switching in completely scot-free, and support moves such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic Spikes give CAP21 the ability to punsih the switches that it will inevitably force with its impressive STAB combination.

Should the Base CAP get any mention to a set of its own?
This is a weird one. In one way, the way that Korski set up the stat spreads really limits the utility of the base forme, due to its meagre Defence, middling Attack and speed tier vastly inferior to the Mega. However, a combination of the still powerful STABs, boosting items such as Life Orb or Choice Band and an excellent abiltiy in Regen mean that the base forme could conceivably be used offensively. This is perhaps not a terrible thing, but we should definitely be prudent to ensure that the base forme does not supersede the Mega. The only way we can really do this is to ensure CAP21 is worth its Mega Slot, but we must also be careful to not go off the other end and make it too powerful, as our powerful STAB combination has really put us on a knife edge.

I don't think the base forme needs any more help than it already has, although moves such as Toxic, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes which take advantage of Mold Breaker, but also are very useful in the Mega forme would be good, as it justifies our Secondary Ability, gives CAP21 a niche and boosts our viability.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

I think we need specialized coverage. Like, coverage that specifically only hits some threats, while still being heavily walled by others. Like water moves may take care of excadrill, but leave CAP walled by Ferro. Fire type moves I feel we should avoid. They make the CAP too hard to wall. Ice type moves would be helpful, but still leave CAP completely walked by most steel types. Grass type move coverage would leave CAP in the same boat, good for ground types but walled by steel. We have to think, when giving other moves to CAP, what Pokemon we want to let wall us, and which threats we want to be capable of hitting with coverage.

Mod Edit: Please be careful about what you post and try to keep all comments with some degree of competitive knowledge.

Sorry.

 

[Deck Knight]

Without going into each specific question:

The emphasis of "utility counter" is "counter" - we need to be able to switch in, and threaten the foe out by crippling or KOing them.

With that in mind, a better list is the list of things we should threaten.

Threats Discussion Closing Post

Pokemon we want CAP21 to threaten:
Fairy-type Pokemon: including Altaria, Azumarill, Clefable, and Sylveon
Flying-type Pokemon who lack a secondary Ground or Steel type: including Charizard [all forms], Mandibuzz, Talonflame, and Tornadus-T
Water-types that don't threaten us with secondary STAB: including Keldeo, Manaphy, Politoed and Rotom-W
Other Pokemon naturally threatened by our typing that do not naturally threaten back: including Ice-types like Kyurem and Weavile and Bug-types like Scolipede and Volcarona

Most of the Pokemon on this list are type trumped, however a few considerations bear noticing:

1. Heavy Hitters with Dragon Dance. The two primary ones of these are Mega ZardX and Mega Altaria.

2. Water types. We're still quite weak to them, and our goal was not to counter them but to ensure they were not free switchins. Given how bulky Water-types are when you include their other tools like Scald, we should consider how CAP can both stop them and discourage them from coming in.

There are two utility moves that do this on a more-long term basis in Reflect and Light Screen, neither of which are going to be broken on CAP. STAB Earthquakes are still going to OHKO from most attackers, but a prior set-up Reflect neuters Talonflame, Azumarill, and many of the Heavy Hitters who use Earthquake (or IT variant ZardX) are going to be stymied. Setting up LS and retreating also helps CAP, especially if it can also come back in with Sand Support.

On revenge killing:

CAP's STAB moves are strong, but inaccurate, which makes revenge killing problematic. That said, a Scarf Head Smash from 105 Base Attack is nothing to scoff at, and with Regenerator a hit and run revenge killing set is certainly possible. Whether we want this to be a viable set depends entirely on whether we believe Regen + U-turn is necessary to give us the momentum to deal with something like a Talonflame, where we make the prospect of switching out unpalatable by proper prediction.

Base Cap Set:
Pretty much by default there will be a Scarf set. Faster than ZardX / Mega Alt and ability to OHKO either ensures that Scarf is viable to stop a sweep from those threats as a check at +1. Full stop. Even with coverage as bare bones as, say, Crunch and X-Scissor, you're still going to see a Scarf CAP because those qualities are that good, and Regenerator on a Scarfer is solid gold, with or without U-turn to abuse it.

 

[sparktrain]

I'll look towards HeaL's question towards coverage, boosting moves, and utility first. At this point, since CAP 21 isn't really meant to be a pure revenge killer, slapping on a ton of offensive coverage and calling it a day really isn't the way to go, as has already been alluded to. Moreover, going overboard with coverage (stuff like Flare Blitz) has the potential to screw with counters to an unnecessary degree. However, I do think we need to have a decent amount of flexibility when determining which coverage we should allow. Looking back at our threatlist, some of the most notable groups that jump out to me at this point are Ground- and Steel-types (which are intended to threaten us) and Water-types (which CAP is intended to threaten). The reason for this is that our STABs, for the most part, do a pretty good job of threatening what they're supposed to (Flying-types, Fairies, etc). However, the prominence of bulkier Ground- and Steel-types in OU (TankChomp, Hippo, Ferro) makes me very uneasy with the prospect of having CAP too easily walled by these mons; a group of mons does not need to hard wall CAP in order to threaten it, in fact I feel that being hard walled by such a prominent set of mons would be harmful to CAP's viability. As such, I think the primary focus of our coverage moves should provide CAP with a decent way of hitting Ground- and Steel-types, but without going overboard. This could be in the form of weaker SE coverage or stronger neutral coverage. Said mons would still be solid checks to CAP, but not completely mindless switch-ins that can come in multiple times. Also, providing a way to more heavily pressure Water-types, perhaps with strong SE coverage, would be optimal if we're planning to adhere to the threatlist more closely. That being said, I'm intentionally not listing specific coverage options at this point (assuming we'll be covering that more later), as a lot of it depends on the next point: the potency of any utility moves we plan to give CAP, as well as boosting moves.

In terms of boosting moves, I feel like our freedom with these moves largely depends on which coverage moves CAP ends up receiving. I'd be hesitant to allow moves that provide a package of Attack and Speed stats (Dragon Dance, Shift Gear, etc), but purely Speed boosting moves I wouldn't be as opposed to (Agility, Rock Polish, Autotomize), as it provides CAP 21 with a way to potentially clean up more effectively late-game without boosting its damage output, at the cost of a coverage move. It's still plenty vulnerable to priority such as Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet as well, so I don't think a pure Speed boost would be a breaking factor. As far as other boosting options go, Attack and Accuracy boosting moves are the ones of specific note, as they boost CAP 21's power as well as the reliability of low-accuracy moves such as Head Smash and Gunk Shot. If we do opt for this type of boosting option, I think CAP should be a bit more conservative with its coverage options so it doesn't break past things that are supposed to check us like Hippo, TankChomp, etc too easily. Same goes for utility; we can opt to give CAP stronger utility options (entry hazards, status moves, sleep hasn't been brought up much yet), but it should come at a cost. To summarize, I feel that the overall strength of CAP 21's boosting moves and coverage/utiliy options should balance each other out; it shouldn't necessarily get both.

Also, as far as the base set goes, I feel that the base set should absolutely get a mention of its own set, perhaps more than one. By the nature of its high-powered STABs and Regenerator to heal off damage from potential recoil moves, a Choice Scarf set immediately comes to mind, especially with base CAP's nifty base 104 Speed putting it above several common +1 threats that could otherwise sweep past it with EQ. In addition to a scarf set, I'm also kinda interested in a set that takes advantage of Mold Breaker with entry hazards, perhaps in the form of a suicide lead. Bypassing Magic Bounce is a pretty big boon in terms of laying entry hazards (or any status move for that matter depending on which route we take), and having a set that specifically takes advantage of this ability would be beneficial in my eyes.

 

[LightningLord2]

I think I just go ahead and discuss all possible coverage types and if I would support or oppose them:

Normal
It's a neutral hit against Ground-Types, but it doesn't really provide anything meaningful to the CAP. Several Ground-Types have a secondary weakness we can hit (Landorus-T) or resist Normal (Excadrill, Rhyperior).
Most likely moves: Double-Edge, Return
Approval: Yes

Fire
This one's a little tricky: It's a decent hit on Ground-Types, but it notably threatens a majority of Steel-Types who could wall us otherwise. It's also no good against Water-Types we don't want to lose to.
Most likely moves: Flare Blitz, Fire Blast
Approval: Maybe

Water
This one's pretty dangerous: It's a strong hit to some Steel- and Ground-Types but doesn't threaten anything we want to check.
Most likely moves: Waterfall, Aqua Tail
Approval: No

Grass
Excadrill, Garchomp and Landorus-T aren't weak to it, but several Water-Types take more from it than from Head Smash, especially Keldeo. It also leaves CAP 21 walled by common Steel-Types.
Most likely moves: Wood Hammer, Seed Bomb
Approval: Yes

Electric
Thematically, it functions the same as Grass - it threatens Water-Types. However, the coverage it provides is mostly redundant due to a lack of high-power physical moves available unless we allow Volt Tackle or Bolt Strike.
Most likely moves: Wild Charge
Approval: Yes

Ice
An unpopular option, for good reason: The one thing it'd accomplish is breaking Garchomp and Landorus-T in half. What makes this problematic is that our CAP outspeeds both of them.
Most likely moves: Ice Punch, Icicle Crash
Approval: No

Fighting
I have similar concerns with this as with Ice: It allows us to break through several Steel-Types supposed to wall us, such as Ferrothorn and Heatran. However, Skarmory and Scizor aren't weak to Fighting and Bisharp can't afford to take multiple Head Smashes.
Most likely moves: Close Combat, Superpower, Drain Punch
Approval: Maybe

Ground
Almost identical to Fighting - the difference is that we trade SE coverage against Ferrothorn for the ability to threaten Metagross, Jirachi and Klefki.
Most likely moves: Earthquake
Approval: Maybe

Flying
Pretty redundant for the most part - it does SE Keldeo and neutrally hit Ferrothorn, though. It also makes us fare better against Mega Venusaur.
Most likely moves: Brave Bird
Approval: Yes

Psychic
Another hit on Keldeo, as well as some other Fighting-Types. It also improves our matchup against the Nidos. An alternative to Flying mostly.
Most likely moves: Zen Headbutt
Approval: Yes

Bug
It does hit Metagross and Bisharp decently well. The only major value I see is in pivoting with U-Turn, though.
Most likely moves: U-Turn, X-Scissor
Approval: Yes

Ghost
Strongly damages Metagross and Jirachi while maintaining a neutral hit on almost all of our checks. Despite that, there's no Ghost move reaching the damage of a resisted Head Smash (or even a resisted Gunk Shot).
Most likely moves: Shadow Claw, Phantom Force
Approval: No

Dragon
It's worthless for anything but Garchomp really.
Most likely moves: Dragon Claw, Outrage
Approval: No

Dark
Hits the same things Ghost does. Knock Off is pretty interesting - although we won't break our main checks, we can remove Rocky Helmets and whatever else Garchomp/Ferrothorn may hold without taking any damage back.
Most likely moves: Knock Off, Pursuit
Approval: Yes

Steel
Since we already SE Fairy and Ice, we only have the SE coverage on Rock, which we don't need.
Most likely moves: Iron Head, Meteor Mash
Approval: No

Fairy
It threatens Fighting-Types like Flying and Psychic do, but it also dismantles Garchomp. Better stick to the other two.
Most likely moves: Play Rough
Approval: No

If you noticed, I intentionally avoided mentioning any priority moves. Would CAP 21 be able to bypass anything we want to be threatened by with the access to priority moves?

 

[KhosroTheGreat]

Calcs

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 88-104 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 190-224 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 95-112 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 63-75 (15 - 17.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bad - Wood Hammer hits something hard we want to threaten us.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 95-112 (22.4 - 26.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 204-240 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 102-120 (24 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 68-80 (16 - 18.8%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 94-111 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 202-238 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 101-119 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 67-79 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
Bad - Wood Hammer hits something hard we want to threaten us.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 156-183 (50.1 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 332-392 (106.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 166-196 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 111-131 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Bad - Wood Hammer hits something hard we want to threaten us.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 102-120 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 98% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 108-128 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 108-128 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 73-86 (17.3 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 131-154 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 140-165 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 140-165 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 94-111 (26.3 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 107-126 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 114-135 (28 - 33.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 114-135 (28 - 33.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 77-91 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Brave Bird are a very limited improvements on Head Smash against something we want to threaten us.
Neutral - Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.

-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 132-156 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 55.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 70-83 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 70-83 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 47-56 (12.3 - 14.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 70.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 70.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 70-83 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 178-211 (55.7 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 96-113 (30 - 35.4%) -- 24.8% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 96-113 (30 - 35.4%) -- 24.8% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 64-76 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 96-114 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 96-114 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 65-77 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 208-246 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 112-132 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 60% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 112-132 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 60% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 74-88 (21 - 25%) -- possible 7HKO after Poison Heal
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 220-259 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 294-346 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 294-346 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 196-232 (60.6 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Good - Wood Hammer breaks through something we want to threaten.
Good - Brave Bird has the same affect.
Bad - Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 92-109 (23.3 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 31-36 (7.8 - 9.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Neutral - Wood Hammer is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 35.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 126-150 (31.9 - 38%) -- 95.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 63-75 (15.9 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 21-25 (5.3 - 6.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Neutral - Wood Hammer is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 288-340 (89.1 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 308-364 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 154-182 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 51-61 (15.7 - 18.8%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 288-340 (109.9 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 308-364 (117.5 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 154-182 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 51-61 (19.4 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 174-205 (57.4 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 186-220 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 46-55 (15.1 - 18.1%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 62-74 (20.4 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral - Wood Hammer makes no real difference against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 486-572 (121.1 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 324-382 (80.7 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 162-191 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 108-128 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer makes no real difference against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 288-340 (107.4 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 308-364 (114.9 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 154-182 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. Crawdaunt: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 408-480 (123.2 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 73-86 (22 - 25.9%) -- 4.2% chance to 4HKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 408-480 (115.5 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (30.8 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (30.8 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 73-86 (20.6 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 408-482 (103.8 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- 80.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 109-129 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- 80.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 73-87 (18.5 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 234-276 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 248-294 (74.9 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 124-147 (37.4 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. Mega Gyarados: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 253-298 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 270-318 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 135-159 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 90-107 (24.6 - 29.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 181-214 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 194-230 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 97-115 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 65-77 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral - Wood Hammer is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 131-155 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 141-166 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 282-332 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 188-222 (53.5 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer makes no real difference.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt are a very limited improvements on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 211-250 (77.8 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 141-167 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 282-334 (104 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 190-224 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Heabutt makes no real difference.
Neutral/Bad - Brave Bird is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 279-328 (78.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 43-51 (12.1 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 255-301 (96.2 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 170-201 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 340-402 (128.3 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 114-135 (43 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 231-273 (87.1 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 154-182 (58.1 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 308-364 (116.2 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 103-122 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.
Neutral/Bad - Brave Bird is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 50-59 (14.1 - 16.6%) -- possible 6HKO
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 202-238 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 211-249 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 141-166 (50.9 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 94-111 (33.9 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 282-332 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.
Neutral/Bad - Brave Bird is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.
252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 396-468 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 223-264 (74 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 59-70 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 476-564 (158.1 - 187.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 158-188 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Headbutt makes no real difference.
Neutral/Bad - Brave Bird is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.

252 Atk Abomasnow Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 482-570 (184.6 - 218.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 120-142 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 644-760 (246.7 - 291.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 214-254 (81.9 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.
252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 325-384 (91.8 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 724-852 (204.5 - 240.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 319-376 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 85-100 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO (lolwut?)
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 340-402 (113.3 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 228-270 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 190-224 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 47-56 (15.4 - 18.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 63-75 (20.7 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 232-274 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 248-294 (102.9 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 62-73 (25.7 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 83-98 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Good - Wood Hammer is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something we want to threaten.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 169-201 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 182-216 (45.1 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 62-73 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. Tyranitar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 231-273 (67.7 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 248-292 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 45-54 (11.1 - 13.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. Tyranitar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Neutral - Wood Hammer is a very limited improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.
Neutral - Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 138-162 (42.7 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 147-174 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 196-232 (60.6 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral/Bad - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 177-208 (51.9 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 47-56 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. Mega Tyranitar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 211-249 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 28-33 (7.7 - 9.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 226-266 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 150-178 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer, Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 21-25 (5.7 - 6.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 112-134 (30.7 - 36.8%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.
Neutral/Bad - Brave Bird is a significant improvement on Gunk Shot against something not on the threat list
0- Atk Mega Venusaur Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 328-388 (92.6 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 76-91 (21.4 - 25.7%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 84-100 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 22-26 (6.2 - 7.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 90-107 (25.5 - 30.3%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 30-36 (8.5 - 10.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Zen Headbutt make no real difference.
Neutral - Brave Bird is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something that we want to threaten us.

252 Atk Abomasnow Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 156-183 (51.4 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 166-196 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 166-196 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Abomasnow Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 222-262 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Neutral - Wood Hammer and Brave Bird make no real difference.
Neutral - Zen Headbutt is a very limited improvement on Head Smash against something we want to threaten (I think?).

The conclusions we reach from this onslaught of calcs are:

Wood Hammer:
- Bad Points: Hits Exca, Hippo and Diggersby + Terrakion
- Good Points: Hits Mega Diancie + Keldeo
Brave Bird:
- Bad Points: Hits Mega Lopunny, Medicham/Mega Medicham, Mega Gallade, Mega Heracross + Terrakion
- Good Points: Hits Keldeo + Mega Venu + Does not hit things we want to threaten us
Zen Headbutt:
- Bad Points: It hits Terrakion + Is otherwise useless
- Good Points: It doesn't hit anything we want to threaten us? Pretty useless tbh

So, if we decide that Keldeo forces us to run coverage against it, we can clearly see that Brave Bird is probably the best option, since it leaves the Ground-types we want to be threatened by well alone, as well hitting Mega Venu harder. This is at the cost of Fighting-types which would otherwise be more inclined to switch into us, although none apart from Terrakion were optimal switches anyway.

The only two types that Keldeo is weak to which I haven't used here are Fairy and Electric. Electric is much too weak (Wild Charge), not unlike Zen Headbutt, and Play Rough hits Dragons such as Garchomp which is not good for this CAP. I guess I could run more calcs on these, but at this point it seems both a waste of time, and I have had enough calcs for one day XD

Edit: I still oppose Fire-, Fighting- and Ground-type coverage, as well as U-turn.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, I want to start off this post by quoting a few things that I've read so far that I find highly relevant here. I personally don't agree with 100% of what these quotes are saying, but I'll provide commentary on what I think is important to look at.

What attributes should we follow in order to define or at least approach utility in regards to this particular project?
I've sort of defined it already, but my view would be that the CAP should limit itself to its STAB moves (as we intentionally directed it towards both Head Smash and possibly Gunk Shot) since we are still focusing on the advantages of the typing. Sure, it will likely still have some minor coverage moves as an option, but these moves shouldn't complete its overall coverage in any way: at best, they hit a couple of specific Pokemon harder than its STABs, but this is likely to completely disregard the checks and counters list we decided upon. My thought would be these coverage moves will mostly be an accurate alternative to spamming Head Smash, even though Head Smash would hit just as hard otherwise. The remaining useful moves should be focused on overall utility, but not actually allow it to break through its decided counters (annoy them at best).

Do we want a moveset with STAB/STAB/Coverage/Utility Move? Or some other combination of move categories?
Repeating myself, but I think STABs + two utility moves look to best best. Of course, utility moves is a huge generalization that includes offensive moves such as Knock Off. I'm think more along the lines of status or team support moves, rather than offensive utility.

Here, we have a full endorsement of our STABs, skepticism on complete coverage, and the support of utility moves. A lot of other posts agreed with these sentiments, so they seem to have intelligent backing. What I find the most important about this however is the recognition that coverage and utility moves are not completely and totally separate. While WhiteDMist is wary of overly offensive moves that provide additional utility, such as Knock Off, I do think that there is definitely some wiggle room for moves that deal less damage than a boosted Knock Off while still providing utility. While this is not a for-sure thing, I definitely would like to see this area explored in submissions. I can think of a number of moves that deal moderate damage and provide some sort of side effect that could fall under the category of providing utility for the team (as in, utility beyond offensive capabilities).

At this point, since CAP 21 isn't really meant to be a pure revenge killer, slapping on a ton of offensive coverage and calling it a day really isn't the way to go, as has already been alluded to. Moreover, going overboard with coverage (stuff like Flare Blitz) has the potential to screw with counters to an unnecessary degree. However, I do think we need to have a decent amount of flexibility when determining which coverage we should allow. Looking back at our threatlist, some of the most notable groups that jump out to me at this point are Ground- and Steel-types (which are intended to threaten us) and Water-types (which CAP is intended to threaten). The reason for this is that our STABs, for the most part, do a pretty good job of threatening what they're supposed to (Flying-types, Fairies, etc). However, the prominence of bulkier Ground- and Steel-types in OU (TankChomp, Hippo, Ferro) makes me very uneasy with the prospect of having CAP too easily walled by these mons; a group of mons does not need to hard wall CAP in order to threaten it, in fact I feel that being hard walled by such a prominent set of mons would be harmful to CAP's viability. As such, I think the primary focus of our coverage moves should provide CAP with a decent way of hitting Ground- and Steel-types, but without going overboard. This could be in the form of weaker SE coverage or stronger neutral coverage. Said mons would still be solid checks to CAP, but not completely mindless switch-ins that can come in multiple times. Also, providing a way to more heavily pressure Water-types, perhaps with strong SE coverage, would be optimal if we're planning to adhere to the threatlist more closely.

sparktrain seems to have a healthy amount of skeptism towards letting some of the mons we want to threaten us to flat out counter us, and as a result, he seems to think that coverage is a bit more important. Judging from this thread and from my interactions with people on PS and IRC, a decent sized group of contributors are afraid that being fairly hard countered by a number of steel types, such as Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Magnezone, and Klefki might be a bit too much against the favor of CAP21. Such a camp advocates the usage of one good coverage move, or potentially multiple decent coverage options.

The emphasis of "utility counter" is "counter" - we need to be able to switch in, and threaten the foe out by crippling or KOing them.

With that in mind, a better list is the list of things we should threaten.

Threats Discussion Closing Post

Pokemon we want CAP21 to threaten:
Fairy-type Pokemon: including Altaria, Azumarill, Clefable, and Sylveon
Flying-type Pokemon who lack a secondary Ground or Steel type: including Charizard [all forms], Mandibuzz, Talonflame, and Tornadus-T
Water-types that don't threaten us with secondary STAB: including Keldeo, Manaphy, Politoed and Rotom-W
Other Pokemon naturally threatened by our typing that do not naturally threaten back: including Ice-types like Kyurem and Weavile and Bug-types like Scolipede and Volcarona

Most of the Pokemon on this list are type trumped, however a few considerations bear noticing:

1. Heavy Hitters with Dragon Dance. The two primary ones of these are Mega ZardX and Mega Altaria.

2. Water types. We're still quite weak to them, and our goal was not to counter them but to ensure they were not free switchins. Given how bulky Water-types are when you include their other tools like Scald, we should consider how CAP can both stop them and discourage them from coming in.

There are two utility moves that do this on a more-long term basis in Reflect and Light Screen, neither of which are going to be broken on CAP. STAB Earthquakes are still going to OHKO from most attackers, but a prior set-up Reflect neuters Talonflame, Azumarill, and many of the Heavy Hitters who use Earthquake (or IT variant ZardX) are going to be stymied. Setting up LS and retreating also helps CAP, especially if it can also come back in with Sand Support.

Deck Knight was one of the few people who talked about utility in relation to the concept and how it should be defined -- and even in doing so he flipped the issue on its head and chose to focus being a counter over providing utility (though later on his comments do suggest that both could happen simultaneously). Deck also was keen to pick out Zard X, Mega Altaria, and Water-Types as things we ought to counter but that still have the great potential to mess with us. His solution mentioned in passing to deal with these mons as well as cover the issue of utility seems to be Reflect/Light Screen. Personally, I find it hard to wrap my head around using a screener on a mega where our item slot is already used up. However, I'm open to hearing Deck's more complete ideas about this later. For now however, I think the most important thing we can glean from Deck's post is that in addition to possibly providing utility, we still have to make sure we counter or cripple enough of our targets in order to be successful, and dealing with Zard X, Altaria, and Waters properly is very important in this regard.

______________________________________________________________________________​

Overall, the consensus between coverage vs utility is not entirely clear at this point, nor did I expect it to be without having concrete sets and examples to point towards yet. However, it seems we do have a huge consensus in our first two moveslots being our STABs. There also seems to be an overwhelming consensus regarding not allowing for boosting moves that increase both our attack and speed simultaneously, and even then boosting moves in general seem to be approached on a tentative basis depending on coverage/utility.

As of now, moveset submissions are now open. However, in accordance with the opening discussion we have had so far, any moveset that does not include our two STABs should definitely have a ton of explanation regarding why the shift in direction occurred. Any submission that has a boosting move of any type must explain its inclusion very thoroughly.

My additional advice at this point is for you guys to be creative while approaching the issues of coverage and utility (and in turn, how to use such options to counter specific things that we've set out to counter). Furthermore, there are tons of different ways in which utility can be achieved, and explaining the explicit benefits of utility options submitted is crucial.

I don't want this thread to turn into a spam of different people submitting different sets and no one ever commenting on the ideas of others. Therefore, anyone who wants to submit a moveset should at some point in the thread comment on another's submission (or preferably more than just one other's). A complete discussion is more important than submitting and simply tying to advance your own submission.

Lastly, read the rules in the OP very carefully, as they will provide the structure on how to submit, comment, and make suggestions.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Okay, so I'm probably going to suggest one of the more controversial moves, but I'm going to back it up, so bear with me.

Name: Shots Fired
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Parting Shot/U-Turn
Move 4: Wood Hammer/Pursuit
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Mega Stone
EVS: 4 HP/252 ATK/252 Speed
Nature: Jolly

So I think I better explain Parting Shot. The issue with U-Turn is multiple-fold. Firstly, it's not very good against the things we want to answer. A bad predict can leave us dealing no damage to Char-Y or Talon or Clefable, while they get free set-up. Secondly, there are far better U-Turn pivots that we don't necessarily want to be competing with. Thirdly, we don't actually want this colliding favorably with Metagross and Bisharp. Parting Shot does cripple the Water and Fire types we want to tussle with, since most of the monsters we want to counter are in fact offensive. Parting Shot has almost no competition in the format, with Pangoro being the only other user. Metagross ignores the Parting Shot with Clear Body, and Bisharp actually gets buffed from it. Parting Shot is surprisingly good both for our concept and current build.

Wood Hammer is how we beat the Water types in the format. The only thing on the list that we want to be threatened by that is in turned threatened by Wood Hammer is Diggersby, as Hippowdon won't fall to it, as Khosro's calcs show (less than half a percent chance of a 2HKO, and can't deal damage enough to stop the Slack Off+Leftovers). Pursuit punishes Talon, Charizard, and the like for trying to run from your Head Smash. It's not as good as some other moves, but it's worth considering.

Don't really need to explain the STAB.

 

[Deck Knight]

Moveset Submission
Name: It's Just A Phaze
Move 1: Magnet Rise
Move 2: Gunk Shot / Head Smash
Move 3: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock / Spikes
Move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
EVs: (192 HP / 240 Def / 76 Spe)
Nature: Adamant

• Magnet Rise gives CAP free turns against many Ground-reliant attackers to stack hazards and phaze them out, Hippowdon would particularly hate this set, while still not being threatened directly.
• Gunk Shot targets Clefable, Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Breloom, and Gardevoir, and can also poison switchins, all of which it beats 1vs1 (bar Psychic Mega Garde). It's recommended over Head Smash because of no recoil, however Head Smash can take out all variants of Mega Charizard X with just the nature boost. Problem is, CAP is slower than it.
• Choose the best hazard for your team's needs. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are stackable.
• Phazing move allows you to spread residual damage.
• EVs outspeed Mega Altaria and all Base 70s
• Defense: Can survive Azumarill Waterfall at full health, Completely walls Talonflame, taking >33% from CB Brave Bird and 52.4% from +2 Sharp Beak Brave Bird.
• Rocky Helmet punishes contact moves, Leftovers aides longevity.

This set brings in defensive utility from the Base Form utilizing Regenerator and our unique defensive typing. The utility options presented are Magnet Rise, hazards, and phazing to help CAP spread residual damage around.

In theory you could also use this build with Mold Breaker to get around Magic Bounce while stacking hazards, but it obviously loses a lot of its defensive prowess and the ability to repeatedly switch into Talonflame without limit.

 

[sparktrain]

Moveset Submission

Name: Offensive Utility
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Wood Hammer / Volt Tackle
Move 4: Stealth Rock / Nuzzle
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Mega Stone
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

• Head Smash is CAP 21's strongest STAB option, benefiting from its Mega ability, Magic Guard, allowing it to use the move without taking recoil.
• Gunk Shot is CAP 21's other main STAB, hitting Fairy-types such as Clefable, Azumarill, etc hard.
• The third slot enhances CAP 21's matchup against Water-types such as Keldeo, Slowbro, etc, hitting them harder than its STAB moves do. Wood Hammer is usually the superior choice in this case, as it also provides CAP 21 with a way of chunking Ground-types, which it would otherwise struggle with due to its STAB combo being resisted by them. At the cost of coverage against Ground-types, Volt Tackle can be used to reliably 2HKOing Skarmory after SR damage, while retaining SE coverage against most Water-types. Both of these moves are notable for their reliable 100% accuracy compared to CAP 21's main STAB moves, and also benefit from Magic Guard preventing recoil damage.
• The last slot provides utility and allows CAP 21 to support its team and take advantage of forced switches. SR is a straightforward way of doing this and provides helpful team support, and CAP 21 easily finds opportunities to set it up courtesy of its good offensive presence and Speed tier. Nuzzle is, for all intents and purposes, a superior Thunder Wave; it cannot be bounced back by Magic Bounce, isn't affected by Taunt, and on a lesser note, gets very slight chip damage. Doesn't help vs Ground-types at all, but it provides CAP 21 with a method of crippling several Steel-types such as Scizor, Metagross, among other potential switch-ins as they attempt to come in on a resisted hit.
• Regenerator allows CAP 21 to pivot in and out more freely in base form earlier in the match.
• Jolly + Max Attack / Speed takes full advantage of CAP 21's Speed tier while retaining as much offensive presence as possible.

The main structure of this this set is 3 Attacks + a utility move to take advantage of forced switches. The STAB choices are fairly straightforward. I'm currently opting for a STAB to more heavily threaten Water-types, and I really prefer Wood Hammer to do this. While yes, it does hit Ground-types SE, it's only a neutral hit against several common ones (Garchomp, Lando-T, Exca, etc), allowing them to serve as decent -> solid checks (depending on bulk/longevity), and mixed wall Hippo can still avoid the 2HKO (with rocks, it's like a 33% chance to 2HKO, which isn't over the top, and Hippo can be EVed to survive this). Check the previous calcs above regarding Wood Hammer, they're applicable here. The main purpose of Grass over Electric coverage is ensuring CAP 21 isn't hard walled by Ground-types, and it doesn't do so in an unreasonably powerful fashion, so I feel it'd be an acceptable option for dealing with Water-types more effectively. Electric coverage provides the same main benefit of Grass coverage (hitting Water-types super effectively), while also providing a stronger hit on Skarmory. CAP 21 specifically needs Volt Tackle for this type of coverage to be worth it, as the big reason to use it is reliably 2HKOing Skarmory after SR damage, which Wild Charge can't do, and it's outdamaged by a neutral Head Smash anyway.

252 Atk Mega CAP 21 Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 154-182 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega CAP 21 Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 116-138 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

As far as utility goes, I have Stealth Rock listed as a support option and Nuzzle listed as a status option at the moment, but I'm actually juggling around several other ideas at the moment for what else could work well here, and I'd be open to feedback. I'll likely be making some edits to this at some point.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Okay, so I'm probably going to suggest one of the more controversial moves, but I'm going to back it up, so bear with me.

Name: Shots Fired
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Parting Shot/U-Turn
Move 4: Wood Hammer/Pursuit
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Mega Stone
EVS: 4 HP/252 ATK/252 Speed
Nature: Jolly

So I think I better explain Parting Shot. The issue with U-Turn is multiple-fold. Firstly, it's not very good against the things we want to answer. A bad predict can leave us dealing no damage to Char-Y or Talon or Clefable, while they get free set-up. Secondly, there are far better U-Turn pivots that we don't necessarily want to be competing with. Thirdly, we don't actually want this colliding favorably with Metagross and Bisharp. Parting Shot does cripple the Water and Fire types we want to tussle with, since most of the monsters we want to counter are in fact offensive. Parting Shot has almost no competition in the format, with Pangoro being the only other user. Metagross ignores the Parting Shot with Clear Body, and Bisharp actually gets buffed from it. Parting Shot is surprisingly good both for our concept and current build.

Wood Hammer is how we beat the Water types in the format. The only thing on the list that we want to be threatened by that is in turned threatened by Wood Hammer is Diggersby, as Hippowdon won't fall to it, as Khosro's calcs show (less than half a percent chance of a 2HKO, and can't deal damage enough to stop the Slack Off+Leftovers). Pursuit punishes Talon, Charizard, and the like for trying to run from your Head Smash. It's not as good as some other moves, but it's worth considering.

Don't really need to explain the STAB.

Comments

I'm interested in the idea of Parting Shot. While on its own merits it's a pretty powerful move, applied to the CAP makes it look a lot less centralizing due to the CAP's vulnerability to Steel-types. But then I look at the high Speed, which is what makes Parting Shot differ from the other pivot moves: it actually reduces the damage for the switch-in, so the opportunity cost of a fast pivot is vastly reduced, despite Bisharp. In any case, I'm neutral about it and would like to hear other opinions. Pursuit is a move I have no opinion on.

Wood Hammer has confused me a bit ever since people have been going on about it in the Abilities discussion. I see the benefit of not having to rely on Gunk Shot and Head Smash to break most Water-types, but it does kind of redirects focus on the benefits of the STABs. Sure, accuracy is great and all, but since the STAB moves already hit most Water-types very hard, Wood Hammer ends up being a bit of a convenience move to me (and also goes against the concept a tiny bit). I looked at some of the Water Pokemon that Wood Hammer is supposed to threaten (notably ones that resist 1 or both of the STABs). Keldeo already gets 2HKOed by Gunk Shot (base form can possibly OHKO with Wood Hammer using Life Orb, but that's a bit unnecessary since we simply have to heavily threaten them, not overwhelm them). Mega Slowbro takes obnoxiously little from both Gunk and WH, but at least Gunk Shot can Poison it; regular Slowbro is 2hkoed by Mega CAP with both Head Smash and WH, but it also has Regenerator to alleviate it so the minuscule difference in power doesn't really matter here. Wood Hammer matters a bit against Suicune, since Mega Head Smash only has a 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Rocks while Wood Hammer has 69.5%. Funnily enough, Head Smash and Wood Hammer can both 3HKO Specially Defensive Empoleon after Rock.

So far, the only major use I see for Wood Hammer is to deal with Water/Ground Pokemon. While the CAP should certainly threaten Water-types, it shouldn't aim to OHKO Ground-types (2HKO I can support, but certainly not OHKO). Thankfully, Wood Hammer doesn't extend to too many other Ground-types, as only Diggersby, Excadrill, and Rhyperior are the only other Ground-types too threatened by the move. Still, my gripe with the move is mostly the fact that the community decided on these high powered STABs, to make the most of our typing; the stats we made to accommodate the power of these moves and focused on threatening Water-types already. Why do we need to even further threaten them to the point where the calcs for Head Smash and Gunk Shot become less relevant? Maybe I'm missing something, and I can be convinced with good arguments, but right now the move seems more convenient than necessary.

I like Deck Knights moves, I already envisioned this CAP possibly being able to use most entry hazards, based on typing alone. Magnet Rise is something I didn't expect, but it's far more timing based, so I don't have the same problem with it that I did with Levitate.

Moveset Submission

Name: Offensive Utility
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Bulldoze / Taunt
Move 4: Spikes / Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock / Taunt / Toxic
Ability: Mold Breaker
Item: Mega Stone / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

STAB moves actually have an extra purpose if the CAP Mega Evolves, as it prevents all Magic Bouncers from safely switching in to block hazards. Mold Breaker also has use for the base form to set up hazards in defiance of the Magic Bouncers while still having a free Mega slot. Head Smash comes in handy against Defog and Rapid Spin, especially if at 1 HP, since Head Smash recoil will hopefully take it out first on anything except Starmie.

If using the Mega Stone, Bulldoze is a decent coverage option that people seem to want to have against Steel-types, while actually having utility. It 2HKOs Excadrill, and guarantees that even the Scarf version can't outspeed you (Sand Rush versions still can, but you can't win them all). It can threaten Bisharp, at the risk of giving it a +2 Atk boost (though variants that don't invest in bulk should fall to the combo of Head Smash and Bulldoze). It's a guaranteed 3HKO against uninvested Mega Metagross, so as long as you hit it once with Bulldoze, it no longer can safely switch in on the Mega CAP (look at that, not super threatened, but not a perfect counter without needing Earthquake). The Speed drop provides great utility as well, since M-Lopunny/M-Alakazam/Scarf Pokemon/Weavile all suddenly lose their Speed advantage against the Mega CAP: that is most significant against Scarf Keldeo, as now you can Bulldoze on the switch-on, and then Gunk Shot for the KO. Yeah, Serperior gets a Speed boost, but it hardly can do anything to the Mega CAP and fears the STABs.

Hazards are a nice possible benefit of the Rock-typing (or Poison-typing), and work with Mold Breaker and/or the high power of the STABs. Taunt is extra utility for the Mega form, crippling certain defensive Pokemon (Ferrothorn can no longer abuse the free turns it gets against this CAP to set up Spikes, Leech Seed, or TWave); Mold Breaker variants can function as anti-hazard to a certain extent.

EDIT: Toxic is another good move, wearing down bulkier Ground and Water-types such as Hippowdon and Mega Slowbro.