CAP 4 Pre-evos - Part 1 - Typing Discussion

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used substitute
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Hello everyone and welcome to the CAP4 Pre-evolution process! Over the next few weeks we will be discussing and voting on the characteristics for the two pre-evolved forms of our newest CAP creation, Aurumoth. At this point we know nothing about them other than that there will be two, so its about time we start fleshing them out, starting right here with typing.

Now, there are a few things to note when discussing prevo typings. First of all, Aurumoth's typing will automatically be slated, so it need not be discussed. Secondly we will only be allowed to change one typing. While we have no need to be Bug/Psychic if people have better ideas, they prevos should, at the very least, be one or the other. I know this is new territory with regard to making two new prevos at once, so some leeway will be allowed, especially with regard to first stage typing, but unless someone can blow me out of the water with their reasoning for a different type, expect either bug or psychic to stay.

Also, remember, this project is completely flavor based, so make sure any typing you throw out there makes sense. Our prevos are not being made for any hypothetical tiers, so I don't care how good a typing is competitively. It doesn't matter how awesome you think Electric/Psychic is; if you cannot justify the typing from a flavor perspective then it will not be slated (of course, if you can, then more power to you).

For reference, all of the info on Aurumoth can be found in this post.

I'll give this stage 24 hours and see how discussion is going at that point. So for now, let us begin!


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I cannot really think of any sort of alternative typing that could really fit for this better than the original bug/psychic, but I will voice my thoughts on other plausible ones to at least get some discussion going.

Firstly, I don't think any reasonable typing can lose the bug type. Bug isn't so much an element applied to a creature but a reflection of the species on which the pokemon is based. To be going from non-bug to bug type is completely changing the biological continuity of the poke. Perhaps with a fantastic concept art that seems to perfectly join the non-bug/psychic prevo to aurumoth, it could work, but we must pick typing before art, and common sense dictates we shouldn't go out on a limb this early anyways. We don't want to be too dramatic or extravagant with silly typings, optics and all that.

So, if we were to change a type, we would be changing psychic, which is not a particularly prominent type in the art anyways (or really anywhere, it's not exactly a highly iconographic element).

Plausible typings for the prevolutions I see are:

bug/steel - since aurumoth is based on gold, and there has been significant talk of making the evolutionary line follow a bronze/copper->silver->gold progression. Having a pokemon based on precious metals could possibly have a steel type, but I don't support this very much at all, since a) these are fairly soft metals, and steel implies the hard iron alloy that is its namesake; and b) this would beg the question why aurum itself is not steel typed, though flavor could mitigate that point with the justification that it develops psychic powers later that lead to the weakening of its shell in favor of the mind. Not the most convincing argument, though.
bug/poison - obligatory since every bug-ish thing seems to tend towards this. Nothing particularly interesting or standout about this, but it's an old standby that might work. Maybe it gets the poison purified as it turns towards the light and gold? Silver is known to be used as a disinfectant, you know. Doesn't change that this typing has been done to death in other pokemon, though.
bug - simple and it works. Starts out a humble little copperbug, and develops into a mighty golden psychic with ever greater powers. Of the non-bug/psychics, this is the one I would probably support most
bug/psychic - this is what I think works best. It keeps the continuity of flavor and doesn't try to be different for different's sake. If it isn't broke don't fix it, and as a unique typing I think it could easily extend through the other stages, similar to hydreigon's line of unique typings (which is also a pseudolegend mind you). Also has backing from another pseudolegend, metagross, who similarly has an understated psychic type that extends through the whole evolutionary line. This one has my vote if any.
Bug is the only typing (other than the default) that makes sense to me. Adding a secondary type other than Psychic to that is just doing it for the hell of it. As Kadew said, Bug is a very defining typing, especially considering it has a corresponding egg group. I always felt that Aurumoth's Psychic typing should be a sort of analogue for holiness/divinity.
I think Bug for pre-evo #1 and Bug/Psychic for pre-evo #2. It shows how it comes into it's Psychic powers. Many pseudo-legendaries gain an extra typing eventually-namely Dratini and Larvitar. Pre-evo #2 could be simply Bug by this logic as well.
^Horsea line is not pseudo-legendary.

Actually, if you look here, you'll see that the only Pokémon lines that have Bug as a secondary type are the Anorith and Skorupi lines (the latter being the only Pokémon to lose Bug type on evolving. Also, NO Pokémon acquires Bug type on evolving). Fossil Pokémon tend to always have Rock as primary type, so I guess it could be disconsidered.

So yeah, I'm pretty convinced that Bug should be maintained and pure Psychic should be discarded.
Korski said:
The narrative of the learnset, based on this progression, is that while Aurumoth (or its pre-evolutions) can be robbed of its innocence and tempted with "evil" or aggression (@Ominous Wind/WoW/Gambit), as it grows and matures (evolves), it becomes more selfless and "good," in the end.
Based on this quote, from Korski's movepool submission, there are three typings which fit for Aurumoth's prevos: Bug/Psychic (duh,) Bug/Ghost, Bug/Dark. Bug/Dark is the most obviously associated with evil, but is generally inherently evil as opposed to the good-natured but "naughty" Ghost types, for example: Haunter. I would like to see Prevo1: Bug/Ghost and Prevo2: Bug/Ghost. I would suggest Bug>Bug/Ghost, but no pseudo-legend has a typing progression like that for precedent. Tyranitar is the only pseudo-legend with a secondary-typing which changes and it's secondary is consistent between it's first and second prevolution.
I strongly feel that both pre-evos should share the same typing.This best reflects in-game precedents; pseudo-legendaries that change typings (Dragonite, Salamence, and Tyranitar) only do so at the final evolutionary stage. Thus, I like Espeon65's second proposal much better than the first.

That said, I find myself agreeing with all the currently proposed typings (Bug, Bug/Psychic, and Bug/Ghost) without a strong preference towards any one of them. Mdevil's argument for Bug/Ghost is intriguing and comes with the added bonus that transitioning from Ghost -> Psychic lends some flavor of 'resurrection' or something along those lines.
In my opinion, the most logical typings would be Bug/Psychic all around, Bug for the first prevo, or Bug for both prevos. Bug/Steel and Bug/Ghost I can see cases for, but I think they'd overcomplicate things more than they'd need to.

Designing-wise: on one hand, Bug for one or both prevos might be easier to design for. If I were to go by design alone, of my three preferred possibilities, I'd go with Bug for the first prevo. That way, floofy caterpillars can happen. (However, since the Psychic typing of Aurumoth is subtle, its prevos could probably be labelled Bug/Psychic just by resembling Aurumoth.)

In terms of other potential typings, I'm neutral between Bug/Psychic and plain Bug- any other typing seems overly convoluted to me. Bug/Ghost might be more fun to design for- and there's flavour justification for it in Aurumoth's backstory- but do we really need to go that far? I strongly believe that because Aurumoth is so controversial, we need to keep the prevos relatively natural and "ordinary".
i.e. boring


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Since Aurumoth is a pseudo-legend, it makes sense to design it like the Pseudo-legends of the past.

The past three pseudo-legends in Pokemon are Metagross, Hydreigon, and Garchomp, none of which had any type changes. However, the three pseudo-legends before them ALL had type changes, so if we want to stick to canon flavor we still have plenty of latitude. Looking at Aurumoth, its primary type is Bug and Psychic is the secondary type. The only other Psychic pseudo-legend did not have a type change at all.

I recommend Bug/Psychic throughout, but Bug also makes plenty of sense from a flavor perspective.


used substitute
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Well, at this point I don't quite have the time to post a poll, but before I do anyways, I'd like to hear a few more opinions on Bug/Ghost. It has gotten a few mentions, but not nearly as many as Bug and Bug/Psychic, so I'd like to hear a from more people before I make a decision on it.

Personally, I agree with most people in this thread that Bug and Bug/Psychic are the best ideas. I can understand the reasoning behind Ghost and Steel as secondary types, but neither to me really seems any more fitting than the existing typing. That's not to say there is anything wrong with them. I just don't think they are really necessary.
(I'm not copying shedinja line at all.)

Start with mono-bug, sprite laying on the ground. Then bug flying, flying in the sprite. Have a large cocoon with two wings.

Then, like Salamence, it breaks out of its shell. It holds its shell towards itself with psychic powers. Bug psychic.

OK, I just put what the sprites are going to be with this typing, but I like it.


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I think a ghost evolving into not-a-ghost is weird. (We could do the reincarnation thing but I think that's more suited to a two-stage line.)


Robot from the Future
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I'm in agreement with pretty much everyone else here. Either keep the original typing like Volcarona, or go with Bug for the first evo and then move onto Bug/Psychic for the second. You can still have your cacoon with that typing, it would just be a but more like Darmanitan Z over something like Metapod for example.

I don't really understand Ghost or Dark as other typings. It just doesn't make any sense. Ghost would infer some sort of coming back to life effect, and Dark would put forward the idea that it's prevos are more evil and sinister. I'd like a pretty cutemon as the first evo to be honest!


used substitute
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Well, it seems to me that only Bug and Bug/Psychic have received significant support. Bug/Ghost had a bit, but not much in comparison, and in general received more dissent than support, so I am going to leave it off the slate. I don't love polls with few options, but I'd rather have that than slate something that didn't receive much support just for the sake of slating more. Anyways, expect a poll in a bit.
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