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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1
- Thread starter cyberzero
- Start date
- Status
Kingdra of the snow seems the most interesting to me.
KD24's Infinite Attack is my vote.
I vote for cyberzero's Leave a Legacy. I like how it's a very flexible concept that can really go in many ways. Should be a one-hit wonder? A viable one-shot team supporter? Or could we come up with something else altogether? It would allow for a lot of creativity in the design process, since the definition of "legacy" can be taken many ways throughout the process.
Edit: Just my two-cents worth on one of the favs of the voters so far, Kingdra in the Snow. I feel that while it's an interesting concept, it doesn't allow for the level of creativity that I was really hoping to see in the CAP when I just joined this forum. Of course, while I know that an important purpose of the CAP is to create a strong Pokemon that can make a powerful impact on the metagame (I do agree that Kingdra in the Snow would do this marvelously), I find the concept just too narrow in design space to make the process fun (The Pokemon must have a specific type or ability, a specific stat-spread, have a very clear-cut niche, etc.).
Edit: Just my two-cents worth on one of the favs of the voters so far, Kingdra in the Snow. I feel that while it's an interesting concept, it doesn't allow for the level of creativity that I was really hoping to see in the CAP when I just joined this forum. Of course, while I know that an important purpose of the CAP is to create a strong Pokemon that can make a powerful impact on the metagame (I do agree that Kingdra in the Snow would do this marvelously), I find the concept just too narrow in design space to make the process fun (The Pokemon must have a specific type or ability, a specific stat-spread, have a very clear-cut niche, etc.).
"The Pokémon must have a specific type or ability": Well, I agree on the ability (even if pretty much all the concepts out there need a beneficial ability; the only difference is that the kind of ones mine needs is much more evident), but I completely disagree on the typing. No one said it should be Ice. If you do not think a weather sweeper can forego weather STAB, look at Sunny Day teams.
"The Pokémon must have a specific stat-spread": Again, who said that? Of course, it can't be something as defensive as Bronzong, but there still are a lot of possibilities out there: it could be physical or special biased, offensive or balanced, more physically or specially defensive and so on.
"Have a very clear-cut niche": This is not necessarily a letdown. A defined concept can help the process go smoothly giving us a clear direction. Of course, there is still room for creativity, but at least we do not, for example, risk to make a typing which do not go very well with the movepool. Magmortified's Pure Utility concept was also defined, and it produced (in my opinion) one of the best CAP processes and products(i.e. Fidgit).
IceBug's Bad, but in a Good Way
I like Krow's Parasite myself. It's the kind of pokemon I've always wanted to have as a useful one.
Kingdra of the Snow.
Kingdra in the snow
Krow's Parasite
Plus/Magmortified's Pivot Point
One of the biggest issues with playing an offensive team is finding ways to maneuver your pokemon in and out of battle without getting swatted down by heavy attacks. Hopefully, this'll promote skilled switching and prediction without giving offensive teams a free pass to switch around.
Hail teams (at least at my level) have always seemed precariously perched between crap and ridiculous. Kingdra in the Snow seems like it would either break Hail teams or leave them where they are now as it's passed up for stall. I don't think a CAP pokemon that only fits into an extremely small percentage of teams is in spirit with the ideals of CAP.
EDIT: Surprisingly, out of my 18 posts, one was dedicated to a Hail RMT that I built using the guide. However, it's not relevant since the guide isn't exactly relevant to an offensive hail team (we don't have the proper tools to make a truly successful one yet). Working with existing strategies to increase variety is much more likely to be successful than trying to create an entirely new style of play. Also, if hail was a truly potent strategy for anything other than laddering I think we would be seeing it quite a bit more than we do now. I'm not opposed to "Kingdra in the Snow", I'm opposed to wasting time on something that has a large chance of not affecting the game in any way.
One of the biggest issues with playing an offensive team is finding ways to maneuver your pokemon in and out of battle without getting swatted down by heavy attacks. Hopefully, this'll promote skilled switching and prediction without giving offensive teams a free pass to switch around.
Hail teams (at least at my level) have always seemed precariously perched between crap and ridiculous. Kingdra in the Snow seems like it would either break Hail teams or leave them where they are now as it's passed up for stall. I don't think a CAP pokemon that only fits into an extremely small percentage of teams is in spirit with the ideals of CAP.
EDIT: Surprisingly, out of my 18 posts, one was dedicated to a Hail RMT that I built using the guide. However, it's not relevant since the guide isn't exactly relevant to an offensive hail team (we don't have the proper tools to make a truly successful one yet). Working with existing strategies to increase variety is much more likely to be successful than trying to create an entirely new style of play. Also, if hail was a truly potent strategy for anything other than laddering I think we would be seeing it quite a bit more than we do now. I'm not opposed to "Kingdra in the Snow", I'm opposed to wasting time on something that has a large chance of not affecting the game in any way.
Have you tried to play a Hail team, to talk about them like this? Have you ever bothered reading this article?http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/art_hail_stall
I may agree to a certain extent that someone would like something which could fit on much more teams (although, just like Kingdra, a "Snowdra" could be played even in a standard offensive or balanced team), but your opinions about Hail's crappiness are injustified and blatantly false. Hail, in my opinion, has the only downside of having little versatility in strategy, compared to other weathers. In the right hands, it is a very potent strategy, and just because your hands - or the hands of those who you battled - are not the right ones, it does not mean Hail is gimmick.
Quite. There's nothing gimmicky about Hail teams, they just don't have alot of options in terms of strategy and are quite difficult to manipulate (at least in my hands) so remain the domain of experienced battlers and stall lovers. I favour Snowdra since it would not only introduce the new niche of Hail sweeper but drastically change the style of play of Hail teams.
As for the person who suggested Snowdra is a limiting concept - maybe more than some, but it still leaves alot of room for creativity and discussion. Too little direction can leave a CAP ineffective - i.e. Pyroak and concepts that try to reach too far are more likely to fail i.e. Arghonaut. I'm not saying these CAPs aren't OU or fun to use, but it's clear from Fidgit and Stratagem that the most successful CAPs have a clearly defined goal. Snowdra is such a goal.
I vote for zarator's Kingdra in the snow, it looks good, and hail teams really need a powerhouse sweeper xD
Elevator Music's: Neglected ability
Out of all concepts currently in the running, I like EMs the best. I have been wondering how a few certain abilites would impact the metagame if they were on a decent pokemon and I hope there will be an opportunity to find out.
Out of all concepts currently in the running, I like EMs the best. I have been wondering how a few certain abilites would impact the metagame if they were on a decent pokemon and I hope there will be an opportunity to find out.
zarator's Kingdra in the Snow
Have no idea why I'm even voting for this, but I felt that this would be a nice challenge for CAP. I also believe that this "Snowdra" would be the Hail equivalent of Cacturne in the category of oddball teammate.
Have no idea why I'm even voting for this, but I felt that this would be a nice challenge for CAP. I also believe that this "Snowdra" would be the Hail equivalent of Cacturne in the category of oddball teammate.
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