CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 7b - Ability Poll

[Plus]

Vote for either Auto Magic Coat, Guts, or Poison Heal for CAP 9's primary ability. For reference, here's what each ability does.

Auto Magic Coat: Performs Magic Coat on the switch in. While switching in, Leech Seed, Status (including yawn), moves that alter the target's stats, trapping moves, Gastro Acid, Attract, and Worry Seed are bounced back at the opponent.

Guts: Attack is increased 50% when statused. (does not include confusion/attraction etc.)

Poison Heal: Heals 1/8 (12%) HP per turn when poisoned.

Big Rule #1:

• We will not allow posts in this topic such as "I voted ability." Put some substance into your post.

Our CAP:

Name: Stop the Secondary
Description: A Pokémon that through means of ability, moves, and typing, can stop a variety of the non damaging affect of moves and moves of non damaging origin.

Justification: While the immediate threat of damaging moves is large and present, the affect of moves such as status, Trick, Leech Seed, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Spikes have arguably had a greater affect to the metagame than anything has ever had, something that this would greatly look in to.

Questions to be Answered:
~ How easily would a Pokémon with such large of a niche be able to fit into a competitive team?
~ How large of an impact would the reducation of non damaging affects and moves have on the metagame?

- What, if any, would happen to the types of teams being used?
- How would this affect the usage of these types of moves?​

~ How much of an affect does typing have on the ability for ANY Pokémon to perform this duty?

Typing: Dark/Ground
Style Bias: Somewhat offensive (0-20)
Build Bias: Physical (20 to infinity)
Stat Rating: Excellent (420-579)

 

[zarator]

After thinking a bit about it, I'm going for Auto Magic Coat.

Guts is good, but I don't want Toxic Orb bread 'n butter sweeper becoming the standard for this guy.

Poison Heal... read my posts on the discussion thread and you'll see why I oppose it (for those who don't bother reading it, basically I think it is too much of a defensive ability for CAP9, and it doesn't help building up pressure on secondary moves users)

 

[zorbees]

I went for Guts as it is the best ability for the job. IMO we shouldn't create a new ability when an existing one does the job just fine.

 

[petrie911]

Guts seems like the best choice. It goes well with either of the other two abilities, should we choose to have another ability, and it's a great way to make your opponent think twice about Status. Makes it a great spin-blocker remover, too, as burn doesn't cripple it like with Ttar. It has the added advantage of being an existing ability. Also, Toxic/Flame Orb sweeper is not necessarily where this will go, especially if we don't choose one of the high-speed spreads.

Auto-Magic Coat seems like a fine choice, but I like Guts better. Guts/Auto-Magic Coat would also go very well as this Pokemon's two ability choices.

 

[tennisace]

I am totally against created abilities that basically try to force the concept down our throats at every point. There's no reason to have Auto-Magic Coat when you could just use Magic Coat. If it's not good enough for a moveslot, then how is it good enough for an ability.

Out of the two remaining, I went with Guts. I don't like either of them particularly, but I'd rather have this Pokemon have a price for switching into status moves then getting off scot-free and getting rewarded with Poison Heal.

 

[Plus]

Went with guts. I also don't like new abilities, though the concept was admittedly interesting I think that such abilities say something about the secondary in the current ou metagame -- they are an ass to stop. We've learned that much by giving it this ability. I went with Guts.


EDIT: More reasoning is found here

 

[Marvel Scale]

I discard Poison Heal, as both Auto-Magic Coat and Guts are better ways of using the Toxic handicap for good use. Also, Toxic Spikes should be dealed other way.

So, my question is: If you got a pokémon and your opponent has a CAP9, and you know he will probably predict a status move from you and switch into CAP9. A good scenario is a Roserade that will obviously use Sleep Powder, or maybe Stun Spore, as everything is possible in a suposition.

What would frighten more: A pokémon getting able to have a great attack boost from your status move and hit you hard (with Sleep Talk, or with a priority move, it doesn't matter and is not the point of the question) or the chance of your pokémon itself get the status move you wanted the enemy pokémon to have, a.k.a getting your Roserade into sleep?

It is a strange suposition, but solving this question may be the key upon choosing any of the two remaining abilities. Also, you find out that it is situational because it depends on the other pokémon and even of the status you are receiving, so I think that Guts AND Anti-Magic Coat should be the abilities of CAP9.

But, as a primary ability, I vote on Auto-Magic Coat as a personal preferrence, as I think it suits his function better.

 

[Spaceneil8]

How are secondary abilities going to be decided?

I voted for Guts, Poison Heal and Guts eliminate status concerns but Guts helps this offensive CAP to stop the secondary, while poison heal is more defensive.

 

[familyguyman]

Looks like I'm in the big minority.

I went with Poison Heal. Toxic Orb will lend CAP9 to epic mind games with Substitute and some moves I'm sure CAP9 will get.

Guts is nice too, I don't mind it at all for a primary ability since it blends well with the offense. I just want to support some defense...again haha.

 

[HD]

I went with Poison Heal. For one, the purpose of CaP is to learn about the standard metagame. Using a created ability will not teach us anything about the standard metagame since Auto-Magic Coat will never be seen (unless GameFreak is being generous), ultimately failing the 'big picture'.

I also dom't like Guts since that area is already explored with pokemon like Heracross and Machamp; who also have similair build biases. So really, what are we learning from Guts?

 

[ReysonTheNoble]

Auto Magic Coat really caught my eye in the ability thread. If Guts is enough to deter the secondary, I could simply abuse Heracross and sweep with a Choice Scarf. It doesn't quite cut it. AMC really adds something interesting to our concept, and is the most beneficial ability for this CAP. It reflects many secondary moves on the switch-in, so it provides a free switch-in that many were worrying about. With AMC, we can switch into Rotom without any worries most of the time. I also support Guts, but that can take the back-seat at the moment.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

Voting for Poison Heal 'cause it's a kickass ability. We already have 2 Pokemon with Guts *points to Heracross and Machamp*, why do we need another one? Auto Magic Coat is kind of a one shot thing more than the other two, and it won't protect CAP9 forever

 

[Infiltrator]

There's no need for a new ability. Though as Plus said it would be interesting. Out of the other two I went with Guts. Guts will prevent it from being crippled by burn, which will hurt its STAB Pursuit. Though it will still be able to get crippled by Poison, Guts still offers "greater" things by making STAB Pursuit a force to be reckoned with when it gets induced with status.

 

[Pombo]

Auto Magic Coat
Already a OPed pokemon with guts or AMC
Look the Base Stat Spread and you will see that 105+ in both Atk and Spe are the common submission, and that mean that CAP9 will have them. This, +Guts = OWN, IMO

 

[Elevator Music]

I am totally against created abilities that basically try to force the concept down our throats at every point. There's no reason to have Auto-Magic Coat when you could just use Magic Coat. If it's not good enough for a moveslot, then how is it good enough for an ability.

Ummm kinda the same way something like Growl sucks but Intimidate is good as an ability...

That being said I voted Auto Magic Coat. I'm afraid it will be a bit overpowering but I like it better than the alternatives, which I feel do little to help deter 'secondary' moves.

 

[hydrolphin]

Poison Heal sounds the best to me right now. It helps with status, gives CAP9 excellent healing, and helps CAP9s longevity. The longevity is the main point here-Guts will punish secondary users alright, but it will die quickly, as Burn and Poison still do their damage. CAP9 will die fairly early in the battle, meaning it won't stop later pokemon from being statused. There will also be less of a reason to use a move like Rapid Spin, as you are "wasting time" by using a low powered move with the boost. Guts, while being my second favorite of whats left, is still inferior to Poison Heal imo.

And i don't really see the point in creating a new ability when we already have two that work well on CAP9. Esspecially when its as underwhelming as auto-Magic Coat. It doesn't provide anything amazing besides a free switch in. But it doesn't provide any lasting protection a la Poison Heal and, to an extent, Guts.

 

[darkchicken]

I voted Auto-Magic Coat. I feel Poison Heal is too defensive of an ability, and with what the current stat spreads are suggesting, we could be making an even more powerful Breloom, unless we severely restrict CAP9's movepool. Guts would turn CAP9 into a status sweeper, essentially making the standard set Flame Orb, EQ, Night Slash, Pursuit, ?. This does little to deter the use of status moves, and will cause CAP9 to fail at accomplishing the concept, much like the way Kitsunoh did.

 

[familyguyman]

I voted Auto-Magic Coat. I feel Poison Heal is too defensive of an ability, and with what the current stat spreads are suggesting, we could be making an even more powerful Breloom, unless we severely restrict CAP9's movepool. Guts would turn CAP9 into a status sweeper, essentially making the standard set Flame Orb, EQ, Night Slash, Pursuit, ?. This does little to deter the use of status moves, and will cause CAP9 to fail at accomplishing the concept, much like the way Kitsunoh did.

What kind of sweeper uses Pursuit? And it's not like every Machamp and Heracross run Flame Orb.

Poison Heal also wouldn't make a better Breloom. Breloom has amazing base 130 attack and Spore. He also has much, much better defensive typing.

What Poison Heal would allow for is a Toxic Orb, defensive set. What Guts allows for is a Flame Orb offensive set (it's basically a better Life Orb). It doesn't mean those HAVE to be used, but they become feasible.

 

[petrie911]

Auto Magic Coat
Already a OPed pokemon with guts or AMC
Look the Base Stat Spread and you will see that 105+ in both Atk and Spe are the common submission, and that mean that CAP9 will have them. This, +Guts = OWN, IMO

Just because most spreads have more than 105 in both attack and speed doesn't mean we have to pick one that does. There are a number of spreads with lesser speed, including at least 3 that have base 85, no more than Heracross, who is nearly UU. Really, this is a terrible reason to vote against Guts.

Also, if you think AMC is overpowered, why did you vote for it?

 

[Magmortified]

I voted Auto-Magic Coat. Not just because of what it can do (I admit that it can require prediction to work properly), but because it has a scare factor that extends to CAP 9 regardless of the other ability. Guts - if we choose it for secondary ability - doesn't cover everything secondary, but it can be useful. AMC means that, even if user X is running Guts at the time, user y will still make certain decisions (as in team-making and the early game) that may assume Auto-Magic Coat and the "Make them think twice" factor it provides. So yeah, I think AMC could be solid for itself, and maybe even better when paired with something else.

 

[Delta 2777]

I don't really participate much in the CAP project, nor have I voted on this poll, but I feel that the ability Synchronize is similar enough as far as abilities go, and therefore think you should all consider changing AMC to Synchronize, since creating a new ability in my eyes is just... Bleh.

 

[darkchicken]

What kind of sweeper uses Pursuit? And it's not like every Machamp and Heracross run Flame Orb.

Poison Heal also wouldn't make a better Breloom. Breloom has amazing base 130 attack and Spore. He also has much, much better defensive typing.

What Poison Heal would allow for is a Toxic Orb, defensive set. What Guts allows for is a Flame Orb offensive set (it's basically a better Life Orb). It doesn't mean those HAVE to be used, but they become feasible.

I concede the point with Poison Heal, but with the great offensive typing we have, along with the majority of suggested stat spreads suggesting 100+ attack and speed, I think the Flame Orb set will overshadow sets that fulfill the concept more faithfully.

(also, the reason most Machamp use No Guard as opposed to Guts is for DynamicPunch, which is almost essential)

 

[hydrolphin]

Poison Heal also wouldn't make a better Breloom. Breloom has amazing base 130 attack and Spore. He also has much, much better defensive typing.

Wait... what? Grass/Fighting is pretty terrible defensive typing. Its weak to both Fire and Ice, has a 4x weakness to Flying, and also a Psychic weakness. Sure, Dark/Ground has a Fighting weakness and and Ice Weakness, but it resists SR, and is immune to electric. Dark/Ground isn't great defensive typing, but its not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be.

Also, Breloom is a miserable defensive pokemon (60/80/60 defensive base stats) and CAP9 will have much better defensive stats. Yes, spore is a great move, but CAP9 will likely get a better offensive movepool than Breloom as well. Breloom only has its STABs (which aren't a great combo) and Stone Edge. So to say that breloom will be better than CAP9 if we give it Poison Heal is false. They are completely different pokemon. Thats like saying Venemoth would be better than Cyclohm because it has better SpD, Speed, and isn't weak to Ground, Ice, or Dragon.

 

[familyguyman]

Wait... what? Grass/Fighting is pretty terrible defensive typing. Its weak to both Fire and Ice, has a 4x weakness to Flying, and also a Psychic weakness. Sure, Dark/Ground has a Fighting weakness and and Ice Weakness, but it resists SR, and is immune to electric. Dark/Ground isn't great defensive typing, but its not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be.

Also, Breloom is a miserable defensive pokemon (60/80/60 defensive base stats) and CAP9 will have much better defensive stats. Yes, spore is a great move, but CAP9 will likely get a better offensive movepool than Breloom as well. Breloom only has its STABs (which aren't a great combo) and Stone Edge. So to say that breloom will be better than CAP9 if we give it Poison Heal is false. They are completely different pokemon. Thats like saying Venemoth would be better than Cyclohm because it has better SpD, Speed, and isn't weak to Ground, Ice, or Dragon.

Grass/Fighting resists: Rock, Electric, Grass, Dark, Ground, Water
Flying and Psychic are negligible weaknesses. Fire and Ice are important though.


Dark/Ground resists: Electric (immune), Rock, Dark, Ghost, Psychic (immune)
Fighting, Water, Ice, Grass, Bug are much worse weaknesses.

But yes, Breloom's defense just means neutral hits can kill it. Otherwise he's a tough mofo.

I don't recall ever saying CAP9 would be worse than Breloom, it just won't be a better one with Poison Heal, it'll be completely different.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with Breloom.



@darkchicken, I respect your opinion about this as you might be right about Guts.

 

[Blln]

Went with Auto-Magic Coat even though I didn't like it very much. I would have liked Guts, but looking at the stat spread submission thread, there are multiple entries with 110+ attack and 100+ speed. Considering this guy will also probably have decently beefy defenses, I think with Guts and those stats, not only would Toxic Orb/Flame Orb become the instant standard, but I also think it would be verging on broken. As far as I know, Swellow is the only pokemon with Guts that is actually fast, and that's a pokemon with garbage defenses, a SR weakness, no way to get past Steels, and 80 base attack (albeit facade). With Guts and a Toxic Orb, this pokemon would be an incredible sweeper that requires no set up and would be difficult to revenge kill, which would greatly overshine its seconday-stopping abilities.

Auto-Magic Guard is not my first choice, but at least it will preserve the concept by making secondary users think twice before just casually spamming moves like Will-o-Wisp.