CAP LC Metagame Discussion

[sam-testings]

Approved by HeaLnDeaL

CAP LC has been implemented on Pokemon Showdown! Use this thread to discuss anything relating to the CAP LC metagame, from potential cores to team archetypes you think will be effective. Remember that this metagame is very new and untested, so there is a lot of room for innovation and experimentation. Keep in mind that this thread is solely for CAP LC metagame/viability ranking discussion, and should not be used to discuss any other CAP format.​

In the interest of sparking discussion, some possible topics for discussion include:

• Sets for the CAP LC mons! There is a lot of room for innovation as this is a new metagame, so theorymon away with potential sets for all of the baby CAP Pokemon!
  
  
• Team archetype discussion. What playstyles would be best in the CAP LC metagame? Sticky Web? Baton pass? Rain? Discuss!

• Teams you've built and tested or plan on testing. This is a good place to showcase your teams without going through an RMT. (also we need sample teams!)

• General discussion about Pokemon you plan on using, such as good sets you've theorymonned or even topics such as "should x mon be running x move over y move?"

Here is a list of all the current CAP LC Pokemon: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pre-encaplopedia-the-reference-point-for-prevos.3487207/

Here is a running list of possible sets for the CAP LC mons, feel free to contribute to it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xwB8V0mKRJxwjHmOtRzn0tGqL8X8O0rigdikHaVwmvI/edit#

 

[sam-testings]

VR Council

-- Drew

-- Jox

-- PD​

Initial Viability Rankings:

BANNED RANK

S RANK
S

A RANK
A+

A

A-

B RANK
B+

B

B-

C RANK
C+

C

C-

SHIT RANK - DO NOT DISCUSS

 

[sam-testings]

Sample Teams
When posting teams, please put a description of the focus of team and how it works.

Granny Pie's Webs

Team

snugglow (F) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 124 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Water Pulse
- Thunder
- Sludge Wave

necturine (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Anticipation
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 196 Def / 156 SpD / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web

scratchet (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

syclar (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 244 SpA / 188 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Bug Buzz
- Earth Power
- Tail Glow

Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt

volkritter (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Destiny Bond

PD's SD Syclar

Importable

John Cena (scratchet) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brick Break
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

Big Chill (syclar) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 228 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Pin Missile
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

Sunny Side Up (Vullaby) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

Temptation (brattler) @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Pursuit

Party Of One (Chinchou) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 HP / 132 Def / 148 SpA / 148 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam

Stranger Things (Abra) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Counter
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Description + Formatting

This is a team I built together w/ my boy Plasmagby revolving around..you guessed it... SD Syclar.

1. I started off by identifying what I needed to fill in for Syclar's main weaknesses(being Stealth Rocks, Bulky Fighting Types, occasionally steel type mons, and anything else that could prevent Syclar from sweeping).

2. I added a Scratchet to the team because well, its a scratchet.(provides a solid utility mon with access to rapidspin/stealthrocks as well as a switchin to rock type moves).

3. At this point, I was pretty weak to fighting spam, but I still needed a pokemon to keep up with the momentum and pave the way for my Syclar to sweep; best option in mind was Weak Armor, Nasty Plot Vullaby(which if you have experience playing Gen 7 LC, you should know the kind of monster that this pokemon is).I found out later that you can also break through things with Syclar mid game and actually sweep with this as well.

4. At this point, I was weak to volt spam, fire spam, and scald/hydro spam. What better way to deal with this than BJ Pivot Chinchou..my favorite pokemon. Chinchou not only stops shellder and the numerous water/fire/electric pokemon from winning, but it has heal bell so woop woop.

5. Noticed that I was pretty weak to Abra and didn't have a knock off mon. Brattler is the man for the job.

6. Last, but not least I needed a mold for the team, a safety, a back up plan, just in case I fucked up late game and let an omastar shell smash, or a Cawdet Belly Drum. Abra with access to counter bops Cawdet, and through magic Guard focus sash, it is pretty much able to stop any sweeper from winning(bar shellder which is dealt with by chinchou and Scratchet anyways).

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Cawdet is broken, obviously. So it's viability ranking is SSSSS.

Into real thoughts here, I'm really interested to see how Necturine will play out in the meta. Sticky Web is already a set that has been discussed and successfully played, and seems to be turning out really effectively. Geomancy is a set that has yet to be explored, but it shows quite a bit of potential, and I might invest some time into it. Looking at the list of LC mons, Necturine can beat a lot of things with just its STAB moves and typing, including Timburr, Staryu, Chinchou, and Diglett. It obviously has to compete with the other major Grass/Ghost types of the tier, Phantump and Pumpkaboo, and Knock Off is always a threat to the Necturna line. But I'm interested to see where our Thorn Seed Pokemon will go, especially with its unrivaled diversity in Sketch.

I'm personally waiting 'till the mons are fully implemented in Showdown (as they're only partially during the making of this post), but I plan to invest quite a bit of time into CAP LC, and might even write some fake analyses for them or something.

 

[Rat With Wings]

Yeah obviously Cawdet is pretty dumb. A simple core of Necturine (Sticky Webs + really effective spin blocking) + Cawdet just wins as really the only "check" after webs (that I know of anyway) is Haze Scratchet which takes 60% from Acrobatics anyway. Cawdet will either need to get quickbanned or receive some nerfs (not sure if that is on the table however).

From the few battles that I've had today I can say that Scratchet is amazing. It can support with Prankster Haze, Spin, ToxicRoost Stall and Stealth Rocks while also having access to other niche moves such as Memento and Rain Dance. But, like Tomohawk, Scratchet can also run amazing Offensive sets. Either a Prankster Bulk Up sweeper or all out attacker with Life Orb Scrappy and potentially even a Choice Scarf. Prankster Roost and Bulk Up is really terrifying especially with the bulk and power that Scratchet possesses. With a spread of 236 HP / 36 Def / 196 Spdef / 36 Spe, Scratchet can stomach powerful attacks such as LO Syclar's Blizzard (takes ~50%) and Roost off the damage. Scratchet also doesn't really have to worry about status all too much as he has access to STAB Facade. And with Scrappy, Scratchet has unresisted coverage which combined with that massive 85 Atk has very limited switch-ins.

I was also thinking about trying to make a Dragon Dance Floatoy set with Normalium-Z for Snugglow and Chinchou but I'm not 100% sure if it'd prefer Flynium-Z or Life Orb or something else entirely. Floatoy seems like it'd be pretty scary after a Dragon Dance, hitting 27 Speed with Jolly Nature, but I just don't know what the most optimal coverage options on it are.

set

Floatoy @ Normalium Z
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Return
- Drill Peck
- Dragon Dance

Since there is no ladder feature it is pretty hard to quickly test set ideas you've had which really slows down the rate of growth for this metagame which is why I think it could be a good idea to set up a tournament schedule for CAP LC. Have a couple set times throughout the day where there will be room tournaments hosted so people can either try out new sets or even just get a feel for CAP LC. Of course, that would be entirely up to the mods of the room whether they think something like that is feasible in the first place.

 

[The Avalanches]

Old but required reading

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue42/cap-prevos-in-lc

 

[Mova]

Are we allowed to use official LC Pokémon alongside the CAP kids, such as Mienfoo, Pawniard, and any others that excel in LC?

 

[KrazyCake]

Are we allowed to use official LC Pokémon alongside the CAP kids, such as Mienfoo, Pawniard, and any others that excel in LC?

Yes we can. If we couldn't there'd be no point in having this meta XD

 

[G-Luke]

This is great! I suck at LC so I'll practice before building, but let me just do a quick rundown of every CAP Pre Evo so far.

Syclar: Super versatile and sure to make a big splash with Spikes and BlizzSpam

Embirch: Neat bulky fire type that doesn't care about Water types. It hits reasonably hard too.

Breezi: I don't like it, I wish it got acrobatics, but it may have an impact as a Fighting Check.

Necturine: I love this. I'm afraid every time I will face this I might make a bad play and basically lose.

Scratchet: Best thing in CAP LC to me. Prankster sets have been done to death, but I really wanna see a Scrappy set to lure in Spinblockers and crap on them.

Volkritter: Based scarf mon. also I hear its bulky sethas merit, but That's something I have yet to see.

Snugglow: Another Scarf God. It sucks that it doesn't get Volt Swicth, or I'd run it on probably every offensive team.

Cupra: Don't

Pluffle: Use

Floatoy: This ( I hear DDance sets are ok, but I'm not convinced.

More on the others later.

 

[PD]

Initial thoughts:

• I first want to start off by saying fuck you sam-test for sniping me to this metagame discussion thread while I proceeded to take a nap for like 2 hours. I p muched introduced you to this.. you tier contributing hoe :(

Ever since HeaLnDeaL told me about a potential releasing of this tier, I was fangirling enlightened and went into much speculation involving the current CAP lc pre-evolution mons and how I could intertwine both gen 7 LC and these pre-evolutions into a metagame worth playing for fun.

I feel as if there are a myriad of potential sets that we can start this metagame off with and through a few sessions of building with HeaL and 067jox, I've been able to scope down notable mons such as:

My Position regarding notable LcCap Pokemon

• cawdet...obviously a candidate for quickban as this thing almost always gets a belly drum off with defensive stats bulkier than vullaby, a whopping 72 base attack which is drastically higher than other such bd containing mons in lc(zigzagoon with 30 base attack), and not to mention a menacing base speed of 88 allowing it to add to the oh-so aspired speed tier of 19. This pokemon also gets access to a stab priority in bullet punch which just dicks diglett and probably even LO/scarf Elekid after sr damage(will insert calc later). The overwhelmingly high, all around god-tier lc stats in defense, attack, and speed combined with a threatening movepool with access to outstanding coverage moves in knockoff and drain punch surely justify Cawdet as an over-centralizing S rank pokemon within the LC cap metagame. The only pokemon that would even dream of countering/putting a halt to a sweep would be speedy haze pokemon(in scratchet which still gets dicked by acrobatics after the haze;reference to Rat With Wings' post), the uncommon wooper with unaware(which c'mon folks), sashed mons that can ohko with an attack right after(most notably fire types, special attackers, or sash counterabra), and scarfers that can withstand a bullet punch from Cawdet(being Volkritter or even essentially, ponyta). Although, like Rat With Wings said above.. all you need to do is pair cawdet up with a necturine or any other web-laying hazard pressuring team and easily outspeed scarfed mons.
• Scratchet: DUDE THE utility on this is amazing and the tandem combo of prankster and roost / coupled with high defensive stats allows this mon to be pretty much splashable on literally every team.
• Breezi is easily a solid fighting switchin for this generation; bar the occasional icepunch/stone edge- and is quite notorious for an inundation of hazard stacking moves in tspikes,spikes, and sr.
• Syclar: HeaLnDeaL and I quote said, "this is most definitely one of the more offensively top tier threats this metagame has to offer" due to a fearsome edge in both attack and special attack, along with an outstanding movepool of both physical and special stab/coveragemoves(SUPERPOWER), which could possibly allow this thing to destroy teams as a mixed attacker. Not to mention, compound eyes paired up with tailglow and blizzard are undoubtedly something to watch out for late-game. Also... 19 speed tier woo woo
• Necturine: Sketch. The possibilities are endless.
• Volkritter: Personally one of my favorite mons this gen. The idea of a fire/water (counter-intuitively accounting for each's weaknesses) special attacker with access to both hydro pump and fire blast make this one of the better offensively inclined pre-evos. Another optimal reason to use this mon, is its access to both u-turn and memento which seem to stand out to me in terms of a great revengepokemon and a nice scouter. With only a few checks in bulky waters and dragon types which are rarely ever used, Volkritter is best paired with grass types that can account for the water walling, and even diglett which checks almost all of Volkritters counters(u-turn on the arriving chinchou, into diglett..then boom).
• Snugglow: I can potentially see this mons as a great lifeorb all-out attacker/z-raindance utilizer as it completely walls foongus, and can impair almost half the metagame due to its combination of abnormally high special attacking stats, goodmazing special attacks to utilize in correlation to its stats(sludgebomb,psyshock,waterpulse,tbolt...etc), and a decent 17 max speed tier. This will be a promising pokemon to build around.
• Floatoy: Despite this pokemon not impressing me all too much, it has potential thanks to its ability water veil coupled with dragon dance, the addition of cm, and a plethora of substantial stab attacks to use in symphony with these boosts.
• Brattler: I don't feel as if Brattler is getting as much hype as it deserves. Its speed and defense are questionably low, but the underlooked special defense and the addition of a staggeringly useful movepool surely make it out to be a decently viable pokemon. This pokemon seems as if it can best reach its untapped potential through stickyweb teams, as a pivot, and essentially as a nice sponge towards threatening waters/grass. Heal bell...synthesis....uturn...knock off... pursuit...sucker.... POWERWHIP...like seriously what else does this even need to suffice.
• Embirch: There isn't anything too extraordinary to write home about(unless we're banking on the very minuscule chance that I may be overlooking anything). I see decent stats all around so this seems as it could be another splashable pokemon to add to a team in need of typing coverage/switchins, but its ability to act as a cleric, spread lava plumes, have access to recovery, and to spread Stealth rocks as a partly grass type substantiate for its overall lackluster stats.

With that wumbo jumbo said and done, I'd like to pass down my first LC CAP team, complimentary of HeaLnDeaL , also the very first LC CAP team ever used in battle

HISTORY BOYS

Carvanha @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Waterfall
- Protect

Zapata (Ponyta) @ Firium Z
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Morning Sun

volkritter @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Scald

scratchet @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

cawdet @ Berry Juice
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 78 SpD / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Acrobatics
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

brattler @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 192 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Synthesis
- U-turn

Along with the hype, is the replay that came with this team

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7caplc-553918297


Everything aside, hope to expect me around here a lot now, both in CAP-LC and CAP as I have grown to be interested not only in the fundamentals of the metagame, but in contributing to it as well. The amount of dedication and creativity put into these projects has really aroused me, and hopefully many more people to come! Based off a few matches, I really enjoy this new tier and hope to kick off with a great few first months. It would be even schnazzier if we built up a huge playerbase around this to potentially have this installed onto the ladder one day.

 

[Plas]

Cawdet is dumb. Next

For Real ban it. Here's some other stuff regarding the mons I think have potential and like and the broken or ridiculously good stuff

Hide

Scratchet- RIDICULOUSLY good! Not broke but the easiest mon to stick on a team ever. Prankster rocks, haze and roost, along with a spinner and decent attacker is incredible

Brattler- Looking hella nice. An incredible psychic answer that imo is looking better than
a-grimes. So many options move wise as well. SpDef is nuts, Knock is amazing in LC, U-turn is also amazing, This thing is a staryu/chinchou counter and just knocks/u-turns out. Power whip from this boy also stupid hard to switch into.

Volkritter- Scarf is the only cawdet answer. Scarf is just really nice

Snugglow- My Fav mon of these personally. This thing has potential, a nice dual stab that pops every other cap mon with an immunity in storm drain a nice 91 spA and hitting 17 speed this thing has a LOT of potential. Looking forward to messing with this.

Bug Ice thing. Syclant baby (Syclar I think)- This thing is REALLY nice hitting 19 speed and getting both SD and tail glow making it super hard to build for. Nice stats, cool type, abilities are ok for blizzard.

Floatoy- This thing is iffy. Nice stats, gets DD. It's just a faster Corphish. I don't see this doing great tbh.

Cupra- This thing has potential early in the meta. This things coverage actually has zero switch ins if you go in against a bulkier mon, however this meta is looking super offensive rn. so eh. Illusion is hella fun though

Breezi- Gorgeous fight counter. Gets hazards up too with solid stats Mui Bueno mi amigo.

Necturine- This thing is annoying. It's LC smeargle essentially. The thing is though it has solid stats, dual hazards+spore on one mon is AMAZING and it spin blocks for itself. It is similar to scratchet where it does SO much in one slot. Knock spam as always gonna be a bitch though for this man.

Other mons are eh as well imo but Floatoy is the most viable of the bad mons.

 

[Mova]

PD You have made some hisstory in the CAP playground. Brattler and Snugglow are beasts, no doubt.

 

[Plas]

Now we got mons I believe that are not CAP LC that will rise in VR or shine in this meta

Hide

Pawniard- No new fighting mons. This thing soft checks or beats almost every new mon 1v1. Nothing switches in to pawn either which is nice. This is the best brattler switch in and as me and PD have said y'all sleeping on brattler.

Spritz- This thing counters 80ish% of these mons just straight up and sets up CM all over them or wish passes. Looking even nicer

Wooper- Is the only cawdet counter until it gets banned, Jolly has a .4% chance to 3hko with acro. You're welcome

BIRDS- Bird Spam rn. Looking incredible. None of these new mons are taking 2 Brave birds from Vullaby, Rufflet, or Doduo unless you're SUPER bulky Snugglow which despite it's nice typing for defense, I feel is better offensive just looking at stats and other new mons.

Chinchou- Bar brattler and Cawdet this thing beats every CAP mon 1v1. Whether juice or scarf it is a soft check to birds as well. Despite it dropping in normal LC, it's looking super nice here.

Munchlax- There are new poison mons to counter fighters. Lax walls special attackers bar NP gunk. Simple enough. Speaking of which...

Croagunk- Look at these new mons. Tell me which one is not taking 50% from +2 Croagunk. Even mixed utility looks incredible. Again just look, simple enough.

Diglett- Ah here we go. Traps a bunch of these new mons SUPER easily. I could easily see something like Brattler+Dig+Chou+Scarf foo Gaining popularity on offense squads as a super solid looking turn dig core

Super hype ngl. That last core I am Copyrighting so y'all gonna have to pay me up when that's all I see on ladder !!!

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Pluffle is the only CAP Prevo that has yet to have been touched, so we shold probably look into it. HeaL suggested the idea of a WishPass set, as it has good defenses and a movepool that can actively support this playstyle. Might be worth looking into

Also thought I'd post my team right now, pretty sure its bad though.

second is first

snugglow @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 124 Def / 188 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Water Pulse
- Dazzling Gleam

necturine @ Eviolite
Ability: Anticipation
Level: 5
EVs: 44 HP / 196 Def / 236 SpD / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web

scratchet @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Memento

volkritter @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn
- Memento

Elekid @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Grass]

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I commend whoever came up this. Now that my two favorite parts of the website have come together, I'm going to end up wasting even more time theoreymonning.

Just so I can contribute something here:

I haven't actually played this metagame yet, but I'm doubtful that Cawdet is "broken". I imagine that there must be a few decent counters which can be used effectively elsewhere.

 

[sam-testings]

Hello! Pretty excited for this to finally start. Also PD you didn't introduce me to this, it was sparktrain who did lmfao. Here are some initial thoughts on each CAP LC mon.

Syclar: At first glance it looks pretty good with its expansive movepool, but the lack of Mountaineer really hurts our Icy bug friend. It still hits hard, and the potential is certainly there as Compoundeyes Blizzard spam is pretty neat, but that does not change the fact that its taking 50% from rocks each time. Now there are a couple of sets that this can run, but the best right now is probably LO Special with U-Turn. This allows you to hit pretty hard and also maintain momentum.

Embirch: Pretty meh. It gets some neat utility moves, but its bulk isn't all that good and it doens't really wall anything super important in this tier. Lava Plume is pretty neat tho and always annoying to switch into, but I'm having a hard time actually justifying its use on any team as Flying-type spam is very potent and its mediocre bulk makes it a less optimal choice.

Breezi: Could have a niche as a Fight check, but its lack of good moves and mediocre bulk hold it back considerably, making it a pretty bad mon. Honestly, very underwhelmed by this right now.

Necturine: A sketch mon in LC, I thought I would have never seen the day! Again, this is another mon that looks good at first glance, but is kinda meh. Grass + Ghost coverage isn't exactly amazing offensively, and is completely walled by flying-types. Vullaby straight walls most offensive sets and can OHKO back with Knock or Brave Bird. The best set on Necturin is probably Sticky Webs, where it can be both the setter and spinblocker, freeing up a team slot on the standard webs team which actually helps a lot. The main reason why this is good though, is its unpredictability. While its going to be fairly obvious when its a Sticky Web team from just looking at the team from preview, other sets are going to be fairly unpredictable and may force the foe to play more cautiously or differently as you mindgame them with "Which Necturine set is it?". There is a lot of potential here, and I'm excited to see where this mon goes.

Scratchet: Probably the best CAP LC mon outside of bdrum bird. This thing is really really tanky, and has a lot of different sets that it can run. Having a spinner not named Staryu is great and allows for a lot more team diversity which is always fun and cool. There is also a Scrappy Offensive set that I've seen theorymonned, which could also be potentially really cool. Also excited to see how this mon ends up.

Volkritter: LC gets their own Volcanion! Volkritter's high SPA stat allows for it to hit really hard, and hits 17 speed which is really nice for holding a Choice Scarf. This allows it to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame and tie with a bunch of other Choice Scarfers while throwing out high powered Water/Fire moves. It could be really annoying switching things into this, and I can definitly see this being used a lot. U-Turn is also a great move to have because it allows it to pivot out and maintain momentum which is always important. Overall a pretty solid mon.

Snugglow: I have some mixed feelings about this mon. Its gigantic Diglett bait which always sucks, but can definitly play around it and has coverage for it(Water Pulse). Additionally, Z Rain Dance exists and allows it to outspeed a lot of the metagame and throw out 100% accurate Thunders and Rain boosted Water Pulses. It gets some really nice coverage such as Water Pulse for Ground- and Rock-types and Dazzling Gleam for Dark- and Fighting-types that may want to switch in sometimes.

Cupra: This looked incredibly underwhelming at first glance until I realised that this got Illusion, which makes it a good deal better. You can set it up so that it lures in a specific Pokemon that you really want gone and use a Z-Move nuke or something similar to remove a certain mon to allow a teammate to sweep. Has potential, and playing mindgames is always fun.

Pluffle: I haven't had a chance to look through this fully yet, but it seems like its just a fat fairy that doesn't really do much.

Floatoy: Could be cool I guess, DD sets have a tendency to be meh in LC but Z Return has some potential.


Now for Cawdet. Cawdet is very clearly broken. However, I do not have the authority to actually ban it. Therefore, I'm going to propose a gentlemans agreement to not use it in challenges until it is eventually banned. Since CAP LC is a challenge only metagame, this should not be a problem with anyone.

And finally, if you have cool teams (without cawdet) that you want to share, please do post them in this thread! It would be cool to get some sample teams up.

 

[Granny Pie]

And finally, if you have cool teams (without cawdet) that you want to share, please do post them in this thread! It would be cool to get some sample teams up.

Okay.

CAP LC

snugglow (F) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 124 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Water Pulse
- Thunder
- Sludge Wave

necturine (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Anticipation
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 196 Def / 156 SpD / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web

scratchet (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

syclar (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 244 SpA / 188 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Bug Buzz
- Earth Power
- Tail Glow

Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt

volkritter (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Destiny Bond

I basically stole from the Google Doc and threw on a Mienfoo. For my first ever venture into anything below level 50, this team's doin' pretty decently.
I always start off with Necturine, layin' down some Webs and Toxic Spikes. I'm thinking of cutting Will-O-Wisp, what with the whole Toxic Spikes thing, and the fact that WoW really doesn't hurt Snugglow, Necturine's top hazard absorber, atm. Giga Drain's nice for a Grass-type with no reliable recovery.
Snugglow usually comes in next, either forcing the opposing Necturine out, or just absorbing the Toxic Spikes and gettin' out. If there's no opposing Necturine, Z-Rain Dance rears its head, gives Snugglow some speed, makes Thunder perfectly accurate, and boosts her coverage in Water Pulse (Not Surf. :c ) Sadly, Snugglow only seems to be 3HKOing Eviolite Necturine with Sludge Wave, so I don't like to leave her in if the opposing Necturine stays in, opting instead for...
Volkritter. Scarf evens out his speed drop from the Webs that the opposing Necturine probably set up, and without Webs up, makes Volkritter nicely speedy, firing off STAB Fire Blasts and Hydro Pumps. Beautiful.
Scratchet is the Hazard Remover with Rapid Spin, as well as the Stat Boost remover, what with priority Haze and Roost, and a very significant Eviolite boost.
Syclar's fast. And has Tail Glow. And a Focus Sash. Which means guarunteed setup. Then boosted-accuracy STAB Blizzards and STAB Bug Buzz and wonderful Ground coverage from Earth Power, helping Syclar nail the Snugglows that are running rampant right now.
Finally, I slapped on Mienfoo because I've been told it's good, and I needed a physical attacker. Meinfoo seems to do as well here as it does in normal LC, which is nice, I suppose. Knock Off is great in this tier, Drain Punch is STAB and heals, U-Turn activates Regenerator, and Taunt is just good.

 

[PD]

Okay.
I basically stole from the Google Doc and threw on a Meinfoo.

BTW, thanks for the Meinfoo reccommendation, PD! Elekid wasn't really doing much in return.

gdamnit guys, excuse me for my ocd, but its Mienfoo.

But no problem LukeOfLegends , let me just import the revised version of your team with Mienfoo instead of Elekid

LucarioOfLegends' Revised Team

snugglow @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 124 Def / 188 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Water Pulse
- Dazzling Gleam

necturine @ Eviolite
Ability: Anticipation
Level: 5
EVs: 44 HP / 196 Def / 236 SpD / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web

scratchet @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Memento

volkritter @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn
- Memento


D'jango (Mienfoo) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

• The replacement of Mienfoo for Elekid on Luke's team allows for a better pivot ---- one that's capable of both abusing opposing knock offs to its advantage through acrobatics, and laying out its own knock offs which could essentially provide the necessary momentum and chip damage for Snugglow or Volkritter to sweep. Mienfoo is also the mon people just send in to take hits, and ultimately, like literally 99% of the time is my Timburr answer.

Now For My Squad: SD Syclar

​

I really didn't want to drop this yet because I haven't really tested it all too much and/or seen potential patches I can add to the team, but Since Kendrick Lamar just dropped his single: The Heart Part IV, I thought to myself..."why not just hop on the bandwagon and release my shit too"

Importable

John Cena (scratchet) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brick Break
- Rapid Spin
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

Big Chill (syclar) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 228 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Pin Missile
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

Sunny Side Up (Vullaby) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

Temptation (brattler) @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Pursuit

Party Of One (Chinchou) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 HP / 132 Def / 148 SpA / 148 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam

Stranger Things (Abra) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Counter
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Behind the Scenes of The PD Mentality

This is a team I built together w/ my boy Plasmagby revolving around..you guessed it... SD Syclar. 1. I started off by identifying what I needed to fill in for Syclar's main weaknesses(being Stealth Rocks, Bulky Fighting Types, occasionally steel type mons, and anything else that could prevent Syclar from sweeping). 2. I added a Scratchet to the team because well, its a scratchet.(provides a solid utility mon with access to rapidspin/stealthrocks as well as a switchin to rock type moves). 3. At this point, I was pretty weak to fighting spam, but I still needed a pokemon to keep up with the momentum and pave the way for my Syclar to sweep; best option in mind was Weak Armor, Nasty Plot Vullaby(which if you have experience playing Gen 7 LC, you should know the kind of monster that this pokemon is).I found out later that you can also break through things with Syclar mid game and actually sweep with this as well.4. At this point, I was weak to volt spam, fire spam, and scald/hydro spam. What better way to deal with this than BJ Pivot Chinchou..my favorite pokemon. Chinchou not only stops shellder and the numerous water/fire/electric pokemon from winning, but it has heal bell so woop woop.5. Noticed that I was pretty weak to Abra and didn't have a knock off mon. Brattler is the man for the job.6. Last, but not least I needed a mold for the team, a safety, a back up plan, just in case I fucked up late game and let an omastar shell smash, or a Cawdet Belly Drum. Abra with access to counter bops Cawdet, and through magic Guard focus sash, it is pretty much able to stop any sweeper from winning(bar shellder which is dealt with by chinchou and Scratchet anyways).

​

 

[snake]

Can't wait to play this when I get home later!

So Cawmodore sucks at using Belly Drum (debatable, but I think it does); whereas Cawdet uses it too well? Can't ever hit that sweet spot huh...

 

[Funbot28]

Can we just adjust Cawdet's moveset like what we are doing with the other CAP mons rn? Clearly the issue here is with Belly Drum, so I think removing this sole move should nerf it to the other LC mons. I just rlly don't see the point of banning a mon that has been created to be implemented within this meta.

 

[The Avalanches]

Can we just adjust Cawdet's moveset like what we are doing with the other CAP mons rn? Clearly the issue here is with Belly Drum, so I think removing this sole move should nerf it to the other LC mons. I just rlly don't see the point of banning a mon that has been created to be implemented within this meta.

I don't think you should for the same reason you don't just randomly knee-cap other broken Pokemon of their moves/abilities/stats to make them less broken in other metagames.

 

[Funbot28]

I don't think you should for the same reason you don't just randomly knee-cap other broken Pokemon of their moves/abilities/stats to make them less broken in other metagames.

The difference here is that these CAP pokemon are created entirely from our community, meaning we have total control on their balance. If you line of thought was the accurate philosophy, then we wouldn't be having the update process for several evolved CAP pokemon currently.

 

[sam-testings]

The difference here is that these CAP pokemon are created entirely from our community, meaning we have total control on their balance. If you line of thought was the accurate philosophy, then we wouldn't be having the update process for several evolved CAP pokemon currently.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-lc-announcement.3599593/

Basically, there are no planned changes currently, and we stick to the gentlemen's agreement to not use it. If CAP LC turns out to be popular enough, then there might be changes to CAP LC mons, but none for now.

 

[Arcade]

Regarding the Cawdet ban, I'm not too big on agreeing on it. If it's an agreement to not use it, then no-one can stop you, a lot of players seem to do that with stall, but just like Cawmodore and Aurumoth in CAP, its unfair to ban a CAP IMO.

Thats my 2 cents, anyways

 

[snake]

Can we just adjust Cawdet's moveset like what we are doing with the other CAP mons rn? Clearly the issue here is with Belly Drum, so I think removing this sole move should nerf it to the other LC mons. I just rlly don't see the point of banning a mon that has been created to be implemented within this meta.

This is half-correct imo. CAP prevos really don't have any competitive reasoning behind them. Maybe some of the submitters try to get good LC stats, but there's no big LC discussion. So while it's created as a prevo, it's not exactly created to be balanced in the meta. Not saying that I don't agree with you about eventually removing Belly Drum, but my point is that whether or not a lot of these mons end up good or bad is a good bit of luck tbh.

On another note, I've seen a good bit of talk about Dazzling Gleam Snugglow talked about in the thread, but I can't think of a good reason why you'd run that over Psychic instead. The only Dark-types that it hits super effectively are Carvanha and Vullaby, which get destroyed by Thunderbolt. Psychic eats Croagunk and Foongus and hits Meinfoo and Timburr a little harder. Or did I miss something that makes Dazzling Gleam a better choice