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CAP Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
As you may know,
Tyranitar gets STAB Stone Edge (which is better because it has no immunities, in comparison to EQ)
Tyranitar has a Fire resist
Tyranitar has Sand Stream
And Dragon Dance and Stealth Rock and hell, Curse and Rock Polish
Tyranitar is similarly bulky physically and quite a bit more bulky specially
Tyranitar has 12 more base points in attack
Tyranitar has much more SE coverage and a viable special stat backed by good special movepool
Tyranitar isn't Ice weak
:/
Imo, they're different pokemon, except for Dark-typiness (a big point). The only remarkably similar set they run is a Choice Scarf set, which Soil admittedly generally does better in, with U-turn, Guts, and speed. LO attacker Soil does not need to boost like Tyranitar to sweep, but has significantly less power. Lead Tyranitar has Stealth Rock and Sand Stream to break sashes, Colossoil has Rebound, Rapid Spin, and U-turn. CB Soil is worse than CB Tyranitar (imo), with inferior STAB that lets it get set up on easily, but it does have U-turn.
Ramble, ramble. Point is, in my opinion, Soil does not outclass Tyranitar as a whole, they're just comparable because they're dark typed with good attacka and bulk.
Regarding the nerf, I like Deck Knight's spread better, because it's still fast. Think about OU, is Suicune fast? Heracross? No. Is Lucario fast? ...No, it doesn't hit 100.
What does base 85 speed mean for Soil? Well, at base 95, it could tie with Lucario [and Electivire] and outspeed Rotom-a, as well as outspeed Heatran with an Adamant nature. Is that really breaking Soil?
\/EDIT: I blame errors on coffee at midnight. Also, ow, player punch.
Base 95 outspeeds Lucario, tying with Gliscor, Electivire, and Yanmega.
You hit on the big part where the most popular roles for Tyranitar are to KO things with physical Dark-Type STAB and attempt a sweep. Well, hey, look at that; Life Orb Colossoil does that better by a long shot. I pointed out my list from a practical standpoint. They are different Pokemon, but the stats don't lie—Tyranitar has been removed from the CAP metagame thanks to Colossoil. Even without Selfdestruct, which was arguably insane, Colossoil still overwhelms Tyranitar in all practical roles. I emphasize practical because Tyranitar is an amazing Pokemon, but one whose typical roles have been usurped by Colossoil and whose typical effectiveness in all other roles has been greatly diminished in the CAP metagame for any number of reasons. It should be clear to you, a player who advertises his own CAP rating in his signature, that what I am saying is true.Darkamber8828 said:
Colossoil ran Adamant with base 95 Speed anyway, meaning that he was already outsped by Rotom-A.ssbbm said:
i don't really understand how rotom-w outspeeding colossoil is actually that big of a deal. he's immune to thunderbolt, resists shadow ball, and gets boosted by will-o-wisp. although hydro pump (from choice scarf, just for the sake of example) never ohkoes, though leaf storm has a decent chance with stealth rock, sucker punch moves first anyway. i don't think being outsped by rotom is the end of the world. being outsped by lucario - that's a big deal.
let's not forget, when we're talking about the cap metagame, that three of our pokemon are full stops to tyranitar - arghonaut, voodoom, and colossoil itself. tyranitar is walled, outsped, and ohkoed by every one of these caps, while colossoil isn't. it may not be a case of "colossoil does tyranitar's things better," rather, "colossoil does similar things similarly well but does them without being poked in the eye by three of the most popular pokemon on the ladder".
i actually think colossoil is pretty balanced in his current state, although i'm not going to complain if his stats get dropped a tiny bit.
i think the reason that i find stratagem balanced is the fact that he's not really versatile. when i put stratagem on my team, i'm thinking, "this will be effective against offensive players, but a total waste of a spot against stall players". you generally only talk about how stratagem does against offense, ignoring the fact that he's totally stopped by three common members of stall teams. imo even if you have to remove grass moves from stratagem, i still think technician needs to stay; you make the claim in the op that tech is broken because of giga drain, so why do you propose that we remove both?
in other news, the changes to shadowstrike are pretty fair
let's not forget, when we're talking about the cap metagame, that three of our pokemon are full stops to tyranitar - arghonaut, voodoom, and colossoil itself. tyranitar is walled, outsped, and ohkoed by every one of these caps, while colossoil isn't. it may not be a case of "colossoil does tyranitar's things better," rather, "colossoil does similar things similarly well but does them without being poked in the eye by three of the most popular pokemon on the ladder".
i actually think colossoil is pretty balanced in his current state, although i'm not going to complain if his stats get dropped a tiny bit.
i think the reason that i find stratagem balanced is the fact that he's not really versatile. when i put stratagem on my team, i'm thinking, "this will be effective against offensive players, but a total waste of a spot against stall players". you generally only talk about how stratagem does against offense, ignoring the fact that he's totally stopped by three common members of stall teams. imo even if you have to remove grass moves from stratagem, i still think technician needs to stay; you make the claim in the op that tech is broken because of giga drain, so why do you propose that we remove both?
in other news, the changes to shadowstrike are pretty fair
Because of Hidden Power Grass with 59 BP.Umbreon Dan said:
A lot of people run Giga because it heals LO recoil. Unless I'd find it absolutely necessary, I wouldn't use Hidden Power.
Giga Drain's better, don't get me wrong, but the coverage from an 88BP Grass-type move is what lets Stratagem sweep.
Whoops, I meant I'd never use Hidden Power as long as Giga Drain was available.
yeah i don't think hidden power grass is going to be a problem heh
What is the significance of toxic spikes were an offensive team is now completely gone. Rene attacking team is now fully affected by the poisonous spines, or a maximum of what is happening. You must have a first court of crude steel in the mandate of Scizor Meta Lucario, Heatran, Empoleon, all the facts.