Chansey (QC 0/3)

[Minority]

Overview
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- Massive 250 base HP and admirable 105 base SpD
- Pathetic base 5 defense
- Wide support move pool
- Has limited roles and is very predictable
- Limited type resistances
- Has a single weakness
- Leftovers recovery is lost making Chansey more susceptible to residual damage compared to walls with Leftovers such as Blissey, Giratina, etc.
- However, the 50% increases in defense from Eviolite make Chansey more bulky when compared to Blissey
- Mega Gengar is a common threat in Ubers and completely counters Chansey
- Gothitelle with Taunt and Rest destroys Chansey as well
- Chansey has significant competition with Shed Shell Blissey which cannot be trapped, but overall has less bulk.


Support
########

name: Support
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Soft-Boiled / Wish
move 4: Heal Bell / Protect
ability: Natural Cure
item: Eviolite
evs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 HP
nature: Bold / Calm


Moves
========

- Heal Bell gets rid of annoying status which can completely ruin a teammate’s ability to fulfill their role (paralysis on revenge killers, burns on physical sweepers, sleep on fragile sweepers, poison on walls)
- Protect locks choice users, increases Toxic damage, and stalls for Wish recovery
- Toxic allows Chansey to beat down walls that lack Rest
- Wish is slightly less reliable than Soft-boiled but expands its support role to pass 320+ recovery to teammates
- Seismic Toss deals reliable damage despite her pathetic offenses
- Thunder Wave can be used to nail Gengar on the switch as well as paralyze Taunt users on a stall team. It can also cripple a set up sweeper


Set Details
========

- Chansey already has massive HP so 252 investment in both defenses is more logical
- Bold or Calm can be used depending on what Chansey will be needed to more effectively wall
- With max defense Chansey can survive most powerful physical hits, although it cannot wall them
- With max special defense Chansey absorbs even powerful special hits well


Usage Tips
========

- Absorb powerful special hits
- Be wary of mixed attackers
- Take advantage of predicable switch-ins to counter Chansey
- Heal your team when the opponent’s momentum is broken
- Don't switch into Kyogre unless you are certain that it doesn't have specs


Team Options
========

- Physical walls that take the garbage that Chansey can't stomach such as Gliscor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Giratina, etc.
- Set up sweepers and revenge killers that depend on being free of status such as Choice Scarf users, extreme killer Arceus, etc.
- Pursuit users such as Scizor and Tyranitar to take down Gengar
- U-Turn users can switch into predicted taunts against foes such as Mewtwo, Aerodactyl, and Darkrai while still being advantageous to a defensive team
- Ditto to steal boosts from set up sweepers that can boost on Chansey



Other Options
########

- Snatch can be used to prevent foe walls from recovering or set up sweepers from boosting
- Stealth Rock can be placed on this set since it can rob a move spot on another teammate, however many Pokemon can learn this move so Chansey is not always the best choice for this


Checks & Counters
########

**Any powerful physical threat**: Despite even max defense Chansey takes heavy damage from powerful physical moves regardless of type advantages: Groudon, Landorus, Zekrom, Scizor, Ho-Oh, Terrakion, Mega Mewtwo-X, etc.

**Set up sweepers**: Unless Chansey runs Snatch opponents can set up and sweep before toxic damage ever kills them. Calm Mind Lugia, Arceus,and Mewtwo along with basically any Swords Dance or Dragon Dance sets not only check Chansey but can give hell for the rest of the team.

**Offensive Taunt users**: Chansey is limited to Seismic Toss and is stripped of recovery making even mild offensive threats a problem. Deoxys sets lay hazards with no problem. Common users also include Yveltal and Mewtwo.

**Knock Off users**: Without Eviolite Chansey is significantly less useful, making already powerful physical threats such as Scizor worse.

**Specs Kyogre**: Unless Chansey runs max special defense it is easily 2HKOed by Water Spout.

**Gliscor**: It cannot be poisoned or paralyzed, most know Taunt, and Earthquake hurts.

**Aegislash**: Takes no damage from Seismic Toss and is immune to Toxic. Also benefits from Thunder Wave due to Gyro Ball.

**Ferrothorn**: Leech Seed and immunity to Toxic is intolerable for Chansey. Gyro Ball and Power Whip deal significant damage as well.

**Gengar**: Chansey can't touch it.

 

[SuperWumbology]

Just as an opinion, Calm or Bold should be used over Careful/Impish as it minimizes Foul Play damage (Yveltal) and confusion damage. Chansey doesn't even run non-fixed damaging moves anyway, so it doesn't hurt it whatsoever.

 

[user php]

I'm not QC but...

i think Gengar should be a big threat mention due to Shadow tag mention how you need to be super careful on how you play and switc this thing in if its already been mega evo'd,
i think its worth a mention on how this thing is NOT a a SpecsOgre counter, as specsogre breaks through this. (it can however usually wall specs ogre if spout is not at full health)

Also, Snatch is not worth it on chansey imo.

If anything it should be Wish + Protect or Soft Boiled + SToss.

I also think Calm deserves a first slash over Bold, as in the majority of cases you will only allow Chansey to take on special attacks and switch out of physical attackers

 

[Minority]

Gengar should be a big threat mention, and mention how SpecsOgre can break through this, also on topic of gengar mention how you need to be really careful in switching this thing in if its been mega evo'd.
Also, Snatch is not worth it on chansey imo

If anything it should be Wish + Protect or Soft Boiled + SToss

Totally forgot about Gengar. Specs Kyogre can be a problem, but:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 286-337 (44.6 - 52.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
and that's assuming Kyogre has no damage. If you can get Toxic on it you can recover 50% while Kyogre deals >50% thereby leaving you alive as Kyogre continues to take damage and you continue to to recover. Just never switch into Specs Kyogre.

Protect is pretty handy for Toxic damage and waiting for Wish recovery so I'll include it.

 

[user php]

yeah, maybe in usage tips mention how dont switch into full health ogre if you dont know what set it is (as if rocks are up, chansey loses)

 

[blitzlefan]

I'd personally mention Aegislash as a solid check/counter, as Chansey can do nothing but paralyze it, and Gyro Ball hurts quite a bit.
Also, I'd mention more notable Taunt users (Deoxys formes aren't the best examples - Mewtwo forms and Yveltal are much better.)

 

[Minority]

I'd personally mention Aegislash as a solid check/counter, as Chansey can do nothing but paralyze it, and Gyro Ball hurts quite a bit.
Also, I'd mention more notable Taunt users (Deoxys formes aren't the best examples - Mewtwo forms and Yveltal are much better.)

Aegislash already falls into "any powerful physical threat" in fact it also falls into "set up sweepers". Most Mewtwo sets run Psystrike so there is usually never a reason to Taunt in the first place. In my experience with Mewtwo(s) they will either rape because they are X variants or the Y variants will attempt Substitute or Calm Mind before Psystrike(ing). Yveltal can Taunt and then force Seismic Toss to 3HKO with Sucker Punch, but really there are more formidable threats out there than that. With any prior damage or rocks up Yveltal will loose that battle.

 

[user php]

generally for analysis's you have to be a bit more specific than generalizing a class of threats, like instead of 'have physical walls to switch into as this cant take physical attacks that well' you'd have to say 'have physical walls to switch into as this cant take physical attacks that well, options include lando-t, gliscor, x, x, x, and so forth, so same goes for 'any power physical threat', list the common physical threats in the meta, as if they are not familiar with meta (which they very well might not be if reading analysis) that wont mean much to them, thats what i took away from Blue J's post anyways lol

 

[malefic]

Ok not QC but having had my fair share of experience with this blob I feel the main set should look like this:

name: Support
move 1: Soft-Boiled / Wish
move 2: Heal Bell / Protect
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Heal Bell
ability: Natural Cure
item: Eviolite
evs: 252 Def / 252 Hp / 4 SpD
nature: Bold

Either play as a cleric with reliable self-recovery, or go all out in supporting the team with both Wish and Heal Bell. Either way, Heal Bell should be run if you're running Chansey; it's a big part of what gives Chansey its niche in this status-ridden meta (Heal Bell / Aromatherapy are very valuable moves + get such pathetic distribution). Toxic gets a slot as it's Chansey's way of wearing down most of the the stuff it walls. Seismic Toss prevents Chansey from becoming Taunt bait and provides reliable damage output; I feel it deserves to be main slashed if only because of its consistency. If using Wish and Protect, Heal Bell should be run in this slot for reasons mentioned.

I feel the following can be mentioned in moves:

• Stealth Rock if your team finds it hard to spare the slot elsewhere (like if you're running Band Lando-T). Generally exacerbates the Taunt bait issue though but all things considered Chansey is a decent, if pretty niche user. Probably deserves more than oo.
• Psychic to let it do something to one of its key counters in Mega Gengar

Snatch should be moved to oo. Thunder Wave could stay in oo but it does prove more effective against things like Mewtwo; Toxic will be sorely missed in most cases though. EV spread wise, Bold max Def should be the only main spread to let Chansey actually take a physical hit in a pinch and Toxic back. Alternative spreads could be mentioned, especially substantiated with relevant calcs but I don't have the liberty to decide.

Taunt as a whole is threatening. Gliscor can ruin Chansey's day just as well as LO Yveltal can. Knock Off users should also be mentioned in C&C because of the increased viability of the move this gen. Mega Gengar should be mentioned both in overview and be moved up in C&C because of what a huge bitch it is.

 

[SuperWumbology]

Ok not QC but having had my fair share of experience with this blob I feel the main set should look like this:

name: Support
move 1: Soft-Boiled / Wish
move 2: Heal Bell / Protect
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Heal Bell
ability: Natural Cure
item: Eviolite
evs: 252 Def / 252 Hp / 4 SpD
nature: Bold

Either play as a cleric with reliable self-recovery, or go all out in supporting the team with both Wish and Heal Bell. Either way, Heal Bell should be run if you're running Chansey; it's a big part of what gives Chansey its niche in this status-ridden meta (Heal Bell / Aromatherapy are very valuable moves + get such pathetic distribution). Toxic gets a slot as it's Chansey's way of wearing down most of the the stuff it walls. Seismic Toss prevents Chansey from becoming Taunt bait and provides reliable damage output; I feel it deserves to be main slashed if only because of its consistency. If using Wish and Protect, Heal Bell should be run in this slot for reasons mentioned.

I feel the following can be mentioned in moves:

• Stealth Rock if your team finds it hard to spare the slot elsewhere (like if you're running Band Lando-T). Generally exacerbates the Taunt bait issue though
• Psychic to let to do something to one of its key counters in Mega Gengar
• Thunder Wave could go in oo but it does prove more effective against things like Mewtwo; Toxic will be sorely missed in most cases though

EV spread wise, Bold max Def should be the only main spread to let Chansey actually take a physical hit in a pinch and Toxic back. Alternative spreads could be mentioned, especially substantiated with relevant calcs but I don't have the liberty to decide.

Taunt as a whole is threatening. Gliscor can ruin Chansey's day just as well as LO Yveltal can. Knock Off users should also be mentioned in C&C because of the increased viability of the move this gen. Mega Gengar should be mentioned both in overview and be moved up in C&C because of what a huge bitch it is.

0 SpA Chansey Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 62-74 (23.6 - 28.2%) -- 89.3% chance to 4HKO

schmeh, I'll let it slide. Taunt and Knock Off are 2 major points that I agree should be mentioned more, as they make Chansey much less of an asshat to deal with by turning it into setup fodder or an inferior Blissey respectively. I do agree with malefic's move order tho, but 352 HP Wishes are something you can definitely mention for Chansey as a support 'mon, as that alone is practically guaranteed to fully restore almost any Pokemon to near full health.

 

[Minority]

I feel the following can be mentioned in moves:

• Stealth Rock if your team finds it hard to spare the slot elsewhere (like if you're running Band Lando-T). Generally exacerbates the Taunt bait issue though but all things considered Chansey is a decent, if pretty niche user. Probably deserves more than oo.
• Psychic to let it do something to one of its key counters in Mega Gengar

Snatch should be moved to oo. Thunder Wave could stay in oo but it does prove more effective against things like Mewtwo; Toxic will be sorely missed in most cases though. EV spread wise, Bold max Def should be the only main spread to let Chansey actually take a physical hit in a pinch and Toxic back. Alternative spreads could be mentioned, especially substantiated with relevant calcs but I don't have the liberty to decide.

Taunt as a whole is threatening. Gliscor can ruin Chansey's day just as well as LO Yveltal can. Knock Off users should also be mentioned in C&C because of the increased viability of the move this gen. Mega Gengar should be mentioned both in overview and be moved up in C&C because of what a huge bitch it is.

Good points dually noted. I've been messing around with Snatch and Thunder Wave on Chansey. In general Snatch is less useful than it appears on paper while Thunder Wave is pretty devastating when you run something like Shaymin-S or Specs Kyogre in conjunction. Toxic is sorely missed, but at times Thunder Wave can be more brutal.

As for Stealth Rock I originally had it slashed in the original set, but using it takes one of Chansey's valuable slots when so many ubers can already make effective use of rocks (albeit this can ruin some offensive momentum).

 

[Fireburn]

Pls don't mention Psychic. If you're going to go through the trouble of doing that you should really just use Blissey who has actual SpA + can run Shed Shell to not be countered by Mega Gengar.

If you want to take AntiGengar measures then you ought to use Chansey with a Pursuiter such as Mega Scizor or Chople Tyranitar.

 

[Sweep]

Overview

Chansey's defensive typing is actually quite good considering how bulky it is. Having only one weakness enables Chansey to sponge attacks with its massive bulk without worrying about taking super-effective hits, since Chansey isn't staying in on Fighting types and Fighting coverage isn't very common in Ubers. Please rephrase that.

When you mention that Leftovers recovery is lost, stress that this means residual damage threatens it more than walls such as Blissey and Giratina. Sand, hazards, Poison, etc wear it down easier than walls with Leftovers...HOWEVER, add another bullet point stating why Eviolite is superior to Leftovers, as the significant bulk increase is worth it.

Mega Gengar "counters" Chansey; it is far stronger than a check. Chansey cannot to anything to it unless it uses Thunder Wave on the switch. Also mention that Gothitelle with Taunt and Rest destroys Chansey since Goth can stall Chansey out of its Seismic Tosses and eventually set up on it.

Mention that it has competition with Shed Shell Blissey, which cannot be trapped but has less bulk overall.

Support Set

Change the name of this set from "Supporter" to "Support." I know it's nitpicky and cosmetic to ask for this change but if I don't tell you now, the GP team will. You also have the format a little messed up, make sure you include a space between slashes. Regarding Chansey's moveset, I would differ somewhat from what you have:

Support
########

name: Supporter
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Soft-Boiled / Wish
move 4: Heal Bell / Protect
ability: Natural Cure
item: Eviolite
evs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 HP
nature: Bold / Calm

This set allows Chansey to act as a Cleric OR pass gargantuan Wishes to its teammates. It has a difficult time doing both on the same set so don't try to overload Chansey with too much responsibility. Also, move Thunder Wave from Other Options to the Moves section. It isn't worth a slash as Chansey likes to deal damage and will not typically be found on teams with wallbreakers that can take advantage of Paralysis, but it can make Defogging easier on stall teams if you can paralyze a Taunt user. It is also Chansey's only option vs. Mega Gengar on the switch, though in Gengar comes in for free it will Taunt Chansey before it can paralyze it.

Bold Chansey's physical bulk isn't as bad as you make it out to be throughout your analysis. Its physical bulk is roughly comparable to Careful Ferrothorn, taking Eviolite into account. Chansey can actually survive a +2 Brick Break from Extremekiller Arceus at full health! Rephrase the sections in this analysis where you demonize Chansey for its poor physical bulk.

The usage tips section is good, but mention that if Mega Gengar has evolved you will need to double switch Chansey out constantly in anticipation of that threat.

Chansey needs a tremendous amount of support to be usable in Ubers. For starters, it needs Pursuit support to help deal with Mega Gengar. Mention Scizor (both Mega and Band) and Tyranitar as excellent users of Pursuit. Pokemon with U-Turn, such as Jirachi, Scizor, and Yveltal can switch into predicted Taunts from Pokemon such as Mewtwo, Aerodactyl, and Darkrai while still fitting on defensive teams. Yveltal usually won't use U-Turn save for the Choice Scarf set but you get the idea.

Others Options

Move Thunder Wave to the Moves section, as I mentioned earlier.

Psychic is awful and not worth using. Chansey cannot make room for such a situational move. I like the Snatch mention, it is a really cool move though Chansey struggles to make room for it.

Checks & Counters

Mention more specific threats. This section has some good information but you left out a good number of Pokemon that destroy Chansey. Ho-Oh, Life Orb Terrakion, Refresh/Substitute Calm Mind Arceus formes, Mega Mewtwo-X, etc all need to be specifically mentioned. If you want me to explain why Chansey fears all of these threats, I'd be happy to help you with this section.


Anyways, I knew Chansey would eventually come up in the analyses section so I figured I would ask this now. Should Chansey even be approved this generation when it's COMPLETE Mega Gengar / Gothitelle fodder? Also, some of the most dangerous threats in the metagame (like Yveltal, Mewtwo, lead Deoxys formes with Spikes, and Darkrai) carry Taunt, a move that completely shuts Chansey down. Even some of the Pokemon Chansey is supposed to check, such as Kyogre and Power Herb Xerneas, can beat it with Choice Specs / Substitute respectively. If you run Chansey, you're basically forced to run a Pursuit user like Mega Scizor or something unviable like Skuntank or Snorlax. Even Pursuit Scizor is not a reliable answer to Gengar, as it loses to Hidden Power Fire variants and can get 2HKOed by Shadow Ball after a little prior damage. I am not suggesting Scizor will NEVER beat Mega Gengar, but it will not always win either. A shame Yveltal could not get Pursuit, as it would have helped Chansey immensely. As it stands, Chansey is a Pokemon that loses to a large portion of the metagame and provides a ton of free switches for entry hazard setters/defoggers. A QC member needs to provide me with a compelling argument on why you'd use this in Ubers, especially when Blissey can carry Shed Shell, or I will probably reject this. I'm not trying to offend you Minority Suspect, I just don't like Chansey in this metagame.

Edit: QC REJECTED 1/3. TL;DR Chansey is terrible in this metagame.

 

[Petrico94]

They should tier Chansey with Blissey, they're the same pokemon. Same abilities, same moves, very close stats and designed in the same matter, only difference is Blissey prefers leftovers while Chansey gets eviolite for bonus special defense. If Blissey is OU then Chansey should also, just because more people prefer the Blissey build over the Chansey one doesn't make the two drastically different. It's like putting the shell smash version of Gorebyss (assuming the move wasn't banned) in OU but any other build is allowed as far as RU. No one's going to ban eviolite but they're seriously so similar and from the same line they should be treated as one pokemon. Some might also consider preventing 2 from being on the same team because they're so closely the same pokemon, that is if there was a high demand for 2 Blisseys on one team.

 

[blitzlefan]

They should tier Chansey with Blissey, they're the same pokemon. Same abilities, same moves, very close stats and designed in the same matter, only difference is Blissey prefers leftovers while Chansey gets eviolite for bonus special defense. If Blissey is OU then Chansey should also, just because more people prefer the Blissey build over the Chansey one doesn't make the two drastically different. It's like putting the shell smash version of Gorebyss (assuming the move wasn't banned) in OU but any other build is allowed as far as RU. No one's going to ban eviolite but they're seriously so similar and from the same line they should be treated as one pokemon. Some might also consider preventing 2 from being on the same team because they're so closely the same pokemon, that is if there was a high demand for 2 Blisseys on one team.

That's not relevant to the analysis at all, to be honest.

Aegislash already falls into "any powerful physical threat" in fact it also falls into "set up sweepers". Most Mewtwo sets run Psystrike so there is usually never a reason to Taunt in the first place. In my experience with Mewtwo(s) they will either rape because they are X variants or the Y variants will attempt Substitute or Calm Mind before Psystrike(ing). Yveltal can Taunt and then force Seismic Toss to 3HKO with Sucker Punch, but really there are more formidable threats out there than that. With any prior damage or rocks up Yveltal will loose that battle.

Aegislash commonly runs a specially defensive set - I don't think it should be lumped into "physical threats" simply due to its immunity to Seismic Toss and Toxic. Furthermore, it appreciates Thunder Wave's Speed-lowering side effect as it makes Gyro Ball more reliable in its damage output. Also when did Aegislash become a setup sweeper? Aegislash never runs Swords Dance or Autotomize in Ubers lol. Mewtwo is one of the most common Taunt users in the tier, and effectively neuters Chansey with Taunt - as you mentioned, Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y have Psystrike while Mega Mewtwo X has Low Kick, so they definitely deserve an extra mention in Checks and Counters imo. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "there are more formidable threats", but Yveltal is definitely a legitimate threat in the metagame.

 

[MMII]

I hate using chansey too and wouldn't mind rejecting it. Flame Bliss jsut pretty muc outclasses it completely.

 

[Fireburn]

QC Rejected 1/3

Blissey > Chansey in this metagame, sorry bud.

 

[MMII]

QC Rejected 3/3 because fireburn can't count.