Charizard Discussion

[Siberlus]

I noticed that a lot of people were dumping Charizard into UU/NU tiers and I strongly feel that this is lunacy. Despite the massive weakness from stealth rock, Charizard did recieve a massive boost from the physical/special split and new d/p moves.

I think he should be in BL or above (maybe)

Pokemon No. 006: Charizard
Type: Fire/Flying
Destroyed by Stealth Rock, but I have always seen Charizard as Infernape's rival, perhaps 'Zard could be considered counter to him?
HP: 78/Atk: 84/Def: 79/Sp.Atk: 109/Sp.Def: 85/Speed: 100
Decent stats, Sp.Attk and speed are where he shines out.
Ability: Blaze
Nothing that special, but handy when low on HP for those STAB'd fire moves.

Physical Movepool:

Dragon Claw
Shadow Claw
Slash
Flare Blitz
Focus Punch
Iron Tail
Earthquake
Brick Break
Aerial Ace
Steel Wing
Rock Slide
Outrage
Dragon Rush

Very wide and varied physical movepool, can cover most of its weaknesses and has many new moves (Shadow Claw, Dragon Rush/Outrage) which counter certain OU.

Special Moves:

Air Slash
Flamethrower
Heat Wave
Solarbeam
Overheat
Focus Blast
Dragon Pulse
Ancientpower

A smaller special movepool but a bigger special attack stat.

Support Moves:

Roar
Endure
Toxic(?)
Sunny Day
Rest
Roost
Will-o-wisp
Swords Dance
Captivate
Belly Drum
Dragon Dance

Some decent support moves here, I have no idea why it learns toxic, it seems like everyone knows it nowadays. Most of the support leans towards physical however.

Charizard definitely has the moveset capability to become OU in my opinion, it can take down Azelf with Shadow Claw possibly, definitely with Belly Drum. It can counter a lot of the current threats in the competetive battling scene. Unfortunately Stealth Rock royally screws it over. Hence I feel Charizard should either be a lead in the battle (come out first, to screw the opponent up whilst he/she is trying to set up) or be the poke that the strategy builds up to, so that the stealth rocks will have had tiem to be cleared and perhaps a calm mind or "nasty plot"(wtf?) can be BP'd to it, for a special Charizard:

Here are some possible sets that I came up with:

Physical:

Sweeper
Charizard @ Life Orb/Choice Band (I don't really like the choice items)

Adamant - EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Flare Blitz
-Shadow Claw/Earthquake
-Aerial Ace/Earthquake
-Dragon Claw/Outrage

Pretty standard...might not have enough base attack to do many OHKO's but...

Belly Drummer

Charizard @ Life Orb (Chesto Berry if using rest and dont like sleep)
Adamant - EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Belly Drum
-Roost/Rest
-Flare Blitz
-Aerial Ace/Earthquake/Shadow Claw/Dragon Claw

Very strong, takes a few turns to set up, against a Tyranitar/Garchomp it could be the death of 'Zard, especially on its roosting turn.

Dancer

Charizard @ Life Orb (I just love it so much)
Adamant - EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Swords Dance/Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Aerial Ace/Earthquake/Shadow Claw/Dragon Claw/Roost/Rest
-Aerial Ace/Earthquake/Shadow Claw/Dragon Claw/Roost/Rest

For those who dislike the loss of HP from Belly Drum and the weakness during Roost, this could be a better option if you accidentally switched in during Stealth Rock

Phazer

Charizard @ ?
Jolly - EVs: 252 Speed, 129 Def, 129 Sp.Def
-Toxic/Will-o-Wisp
-Roar
-Flare Blitz
-Aerial Ace/Will-o-Wisp

More of a novelty than anything, it could work, especially with 'Zard's speed, but there is so much more it can do than this...

Subpuncher

Charizard @ Life Orb
Adamant - EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Speed
-Substitue
-Focus Punch
-Flare Drive
-Filler/Roost/Rest

Standard subpuncher...

Belly Puncher

Charizard @ Life Orb
Adamant - EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Speed
-Substitute
-Belly Drum
-Focus Punch
-Roost/Rest/Flare Drive
Special:

CSp/CScSweeper

Charizard @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Modest - EVs: 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Air Slash
-Flamethrower/Heat Wave
-Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
-Ancientpower/Dragon Pulse


Pretty standard, if not it should be, personally I'm not too keen on the choice items, but there you go. Could work pretty well with a baton passed Calm Mind (ideal with Drifblim) or Nasty Plot.

Sunnybeamer

Charizard @ Hot Rock?
Modest - EVs: 252 Sp.A, 252 Sp, 6 HP
-Sunny Day
-Solarbeam
-Flamethrower
-Air Slash

Again pretty standard, very similar to R/S/E, 'cept for air slash to deal with those fighting types or other grass types which get a boost from its sunny day.

Mixed

Sweeper

Charizard@Life Orb/White Herb
Naughty (or a "none" nature) - Evs: 252 Speed, 129 Atl, 129 Sp.A
-Overheat
-Physical filler
-Physical filler
-Physical filler

Sweeper

Charizard @ Life Orb
Naughty (or a "none" nature) - Evs: 252 Speed, 129 Atl, 129 Sp.A
-Physical filler
-Physical filler
-Special filler
-Special filler

Kamikaze - For the Charizard who fears nothing...

Charizard @ Enigma/Leichi Berry
Adamant -EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Belly Drum
-Endure
-Flare Blitz
-filler...

Don't let this once proud dragon die...

​

​

 

[ABSOLute]

Movesets with 4 fillers aren't really movesets. :{

He could be UU, but not NU. UU's bar is going to be raised along with the other tiers, don't forget. Stealth Rock just fucks him in the ass too hard. It seriously hinders Bellyzard, and special Zard gets outclassed by Moltres (although Moltres can't utilize the impressive dragon/fire combo). I wish he had calm mind or scheme.

Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/WoW/Earthquake could work, since EQ takes care of pesky heatran and can hit blissey hard, but probably not enough to 2HKO. Maybe Focus Punch is a better idea. In that case, Sub can go over WoW to get a kind of a boah thing going on.

I'm apprehensive about using roost on him since he's pretty fast and weak to earthquake.

Air Slash is a great move, but fire + flying is kind of a weak combo since they share a few types that they hit effectively.

On a side note, his d/p sprite is pretty lame. How is that flimsy excuse for a neck holding up his massive noggin?

 

[Akayfortyseven]

@Petaya
Modest/Rash - Max Special attack and speed, set hp to be exactly divisible by 4
Sub
Flamethrower
Dragon Pulse
Air Slash/Earthquake

Either lead and sub to blaze and petaya boost, or switch in on SR, sub and sweep. Takes advantage of stealth rock but can be used without it. Blaze + Stab + Petaya flamethrower rips through tonnes of stuff, and the other moves are for filler. Earthquake is for heatran who walls this, but Focus punch could go over it for bliss and lax.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

I kind of wrote off Charizard as crap. Aside from some funny Belly Drum set the best thing I came up with was

~ Fire Blast
~ Focus Punch
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Dragon Pulse
@ Life Orb

Focus Punch for Blissey and Heatran. Life Orb right now because he can't switch anyways, might as well try to get damage out of the crappy fire type. Lefties lets him switch in once more than usual unless there's Sandstream so maybe that's better? I dunno. Without an item like Life Orb or Expert Belt or even Choice Specs he doesn't hit for damage. But if you do use one of those he can't switch in more than once or twice without exploding.

Honestly I kind of find it difficult to see Charizard better than Moltres since his draws from a special perspective are Focus Punch and Dragon Pulse. Physically, he's outclassed by Infernape completely unless you do Belly Drum, which looks kind of disastrous given how popular Stealth Rock is. Mixed is also outclassed by Infernape.

 

[Amelia]

Charizard - Salac
Evs = 370 speed (To outspeed those damn AG gars), HP = divisible by 4 + 1.

-Belly Drum
-Flail
-Overheat/Shadow Claw
-Earthquake

Only usable if Ttar/Hippo isn't there, but if they're not, prepare to sweep. Switch this onto a choice banded EQ when SR is there, when they switch you belly, giving you 1 hp. Flail, Overheat/Shadow Claw, or EQ accordingly.

Edit: Overheat is kinda for gengar only, i think shadow claw would be better.

 

[Mekkah]

Annoying formatting, no Serebii link, filler/filler/filler/filler movestes or even worse, Chesto Rest...please read the rules again.