Gen 3 Charizard

Discussion in 'RBY / GSC / ADV' started by Danilo, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Danilo

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Apr 30, 2011

    <p> Charizard is a solid Pokemon that can fill a variety of roles in ADV. With its Sunny Day set, it is a good Water-type lure, being able to OHKO Swampert, Milotic, and even Suicune, after prior damage, assuming you have accumulated enough boosts. The SubPunch set is an excellent Blissey and Snorlax lure while the Belly Drum set is a high-risk high-reward sweeper. However, there's a reason why everyone's favorite pseudo Dragon-type isn't in OU. Charizard's typing leaves much to be desired, both defensively and offensively. Water-types are on nearly every team and nearly every physical sweeper in the tier uses Rock Slide. Tyranitar, one of the most common Pokemon in the tier, has the ability Sand Stream, which is very detrimental to the usefulness of Charizard. It makes it harder for Charizard to have control of the weather, limits the number of Substitutes that Charizard can make, and puts the Belly Drum set on a timer because that set needs to run a Salac Berry. Overall, Charizard is a decent choice for certain offensively oriented teams that need to get rid of a bulky water for a Salamence sweep, a Blissey for a Suicune sweep, or a team that just wants a potentially powerful sweeper.</p>

    name: Substitute + Sunny Day
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Sunny Day
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Overheat
    item: Petaya Berry
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 HP


    <p>The goal of this set is to first set up a Substitute, then make it hot, then use Substitute so that you get a boost from both Blaze and Petaya Berry. Then, go to town. If you can OHKO the defending Pokemon with Fire Blast, then it's the move that you should be using. If not, use Overheat. Do not fret over losing two stages in Special Attack; it's uncommon for this Charizard set to be able to KO more than one Pokemon in one sitting anyway.</p>


    <p>The EVs are non-debatable; investing fully in Speed with a Timid nature allows you to Speed tie with max Speed positive natured Jirachi, Celebi, and Flygon, all of whom you OHKO with a Fire Blast, assuming you have accumulated all of your boosts in the case of Flygon. Modest is viable nature over Timid; the notable Pokemon that you will Speed tie with are max Speed Adamant Salamence and Flygon. You also still out speed Jolly Heracross. The 30 HP IVs let you eat your Petaya Berry and be in Blaze range after you have used Substitute three times.</p>

    <p>Since the main goal of this set is to break down Water-types, partners that enjoy the removal of Water-types are good ones. Salamence is a good partner not only because it enjoys the removal of Water-types and can sweep with Dragon Dance, but also because it's a solid check to Gyarados, one of Charizard's best offensive checks. Since Tyranitar is such a nuisance for this Charizard, more so than the other sets, Dugtrio is an excellent partner for its ability to trap and OHKO Tyranitar, assuming that the Tyranitar is a little weakened. Adamant Dugtrio deserves a special mention as it will always be able to OHKO the most common Tyranitar sets. As far as other move choices go, Blast Burn is viable over Overheat due to its very significant increase in power. However, if using Blast Burn, make sure that your team is solid enough defensively to not lose to whatever your opponent does during their free turn, such as click Dragon Dance with Tyranitar.</p>

    doing the rest later
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
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  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner

    Jun 5, 2010
    Overheat is 140 Base Power. Blast Burn is 150. Thus, I would hesitate in saying that the power difference is "very" significant unless you can/are willing to show damage calcs.
  3. Danilo

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Apr 30, 2011
    there's no working damage calc for the third generation that includes the move blast burn. i can test it later but i know it ohkos immunity lax

    i think the 15 point difference in strength is big enough to kill some waters, although i'm not 100%
  4. Sapientia

    Sapientia Bavarian Barbarian
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Jan 3, 2008
    If this Formula is correct Overheat is 395,17 - 464,90 and Blast Burn 464,90 - 497,80 against 300 SDef.
    So it can be over 100 Damage difference against Snorlax, which is a lot.
    So I can image that it also provides the extra damage you need to kill some waters

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