Choice Scarf Empoleon?

[Bogmire]

Do you think it could work? It has 60 base speed, but with choice scarf, 252 speed EV's, and timid nature, it can outrun jolly garchomp (and 110 base speed pokemon for that matter, reaching 360 speed) Now I know some of you are thinking, "why not just use starmie, or something faster?". Because this set has the element of surprise, most people won't expect choice scarf on empoleon. I looked at Empoleon's analysis and couldn't find anything on choice scarf empoleon. I was thinking something like this:

Empoleon @ choice scarf
EV's: 252 speed, 252 sp atk, 6 HP
Timid
-Surf
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power Electric/Drill Peck
-Ice Beam

HP electric is in there to stop gyarados who would otherwise somewhat wall this set and attack back with earthquake. Or you could do drill peck for heracross (if it isn't running scarf) who would survive all of the other moves and proceed to 1HKO with close combat.

Does anyone have thoughts on this set?

 

[YJiang]

The first thing I thought was a surprise KO on Garchomp - who may be running Choice Scarf itself (though not likely) - at the cost of crippling your Empoleon. Your opponents will catch on very fast.

 

[Dr. Bolty]

IMO, Empoleon's SpAtk just isn't high enough to justify it. When you have something slow like Absol with 130 Atk, or Heracross and Magmortar with 125, or Medicham and Azumarill with their doubled stats, it makes sense to use the Scarf just to utilize their massive stat. However, it's not so wise to slap it on something just because it's too slow to sweep - I feel that 120 base attacking stat is the minimum for trying to Scarf with something.

In the case of Empoleon, it has neither the attacking stat nor the movepool to really justify locking it into a move just for a speed boost.

 

[StrangerDanger]

The better surprise, is focus sash empoleon.

X sent out Salamence!
Y sent out Empoleon!

Salamence used Earthquake!
Empoleon hung on with it's Focus Sash!
Empoleon used Ice Beam (100%)
Salamence Fainted!

X sent out Gyarados!
Gyarados used Dragon Dance!
Empoleon used Hidden Power [electric] (98%)
Empoleon used Aqua Jet! (8%)
Gyarados fainted!

 

[Pocket]

Yea, StrangerDanger's set is more appealing to me than a Choice Scarf Empoleon....It's a good surprise factor, but once they find it out, it's walled. I don't know how focus sash would be effective on Empoleon, though...I mean from what I'd suspect, it'll be switching into many choicers, and it'll inevitably lose HP and Focas Sash fails. I'd play it as a defensive support, perhaps making use of a combination of aqua jet, aqua ring, toxic, yawn or roar, and stealth rock. It could otherwise act as a bulky special sweeper with agility and / or rain dance

 

[StrangerDanger]

My empoleon set (which actually belongs in part to Lemmiwinks), is a lead, Mild@Focus Sash, with Surf/Ice Beam/Hp Electric/Aqua jet.

The idea is to Know they'll KO you with BB if it's weavile, EQ if it's salamence, Tbolt if it's Jolt, etc, then choose surf, or an SE move. You survive, then Surf'll do an assload of damage, Aqua jet finishes off stragglers/other focus sashers.

After Rocks or spikes go up, and he's still alive, you can switch it to get a free revenge kill, and to force a switch from choice banded guys.

 

[Shynkz]

My empoleon set (which actually belongs in part to Lemmiwinks), is a lead, Mild@Focus Sash, with Surf/Ice Beam/Hp Electric/Aqua jet.

The idea is to Know they'll KO you with BB if it's weavile, EQ if it's salamence, Tbolt if it's Jolt, etc, then choose surf, or an SE move. You survive, then Surf'll do an assload of damage, Aqua jet finishes off stragglers/other focus sashers.

After Rocks or spikes go up, and he's still alive, you can switch it to get a free revenge kill, and to force a switch from choice banded guys.

Real nice, but beaten by Weavile with Sash/Ice Shard. If my opponent is at 1 hp, regardless of how fast I am I'm gonna use the priority modifier attack just incase for that exact same situation. Plus, if they switch out (lol) theres the off-chance that their switch might be weak to ice or something.

 

[Gardevoir]

I suppose that would be an interesting idea, but Choice Scarf would better suit things that have massive attack or special attack but not the speed or defenses to match.

 

[Mr.E]

Weavile doesn't come close to killing you with Brick Break, it does not "beat" Empoleon by any means.

Focus Sash is dumb because Empoleon has nice defenses not to mention a great unique defensive typing. You have to search pretty hard just to find something to OHKO you to USE the Sash. Considering its cool resists but debilitating weaknesses it doesn't make a bad hit-and-run pokémon though, giving credence to a Choice Specs set. I think it's too damn slow for a Scarf personally, but it could still work too. Empoleon has a usable Choice movepool, including Surf/Ice Beam and two of Grass Knot, HP Electric, and Aqua Jet. Maybe even Hydro Cannon.

 

[porygon3]

Mr.E said the main problem with it, it's too slow. With Timid (or any +Spd nature), 252 EVs, and Choice Scarf, it has 360 Spd.

Empoleon should be used for its great typing and good defenses. It's not meant to be fast (compare to Swampert maybe?). Focus Sash is bad too on it, since alot of stuff doesn't kill it (Jolly Choice Band Weavile's Brick Break does 304 max, unless I did the numbers wrong).

"why not just use starmie, or something faster?". Because this set has the element of surprise,

I actually haven't seen anyone use Choice Scarf Starmie, and I haven't seen anyone besides myself suggest it.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I'd be the first to admit that Focus Sash Empoleon as a lead goes against its intended use, but that's the point. It is a gimmick lead that is difficult to take down without incurring significant damage in the process, as well as most likely surprising the hell out of the opponent. It doesn't matter so much that nothing much kills it, more than the fact that some things can, and it is better to be safe than sorry. There's nothing more satisfying than taking out a key Pokemon like Garchomp or Gyarados with a Pokemon that should have had no business even facing them in the first place.

 

[porygon3]

Yes but if something may be able to OHKO Empoleon, you'll already know beforehand. Bulky Gyarados does 82% max, Jolly Weavile does 98% (both assuming 0HP/0Def), so besides Garchomp there's really not anything that Focus Sash will help against

 

[Forsety]

Choice Scarf set just doesn't work, Empolean isn't strong enough or fast enough to justify it. If anything Choice Specs is actually better since abit of clever switching can get you a few strong hits on the switch plus Torrent on top can make it a good wall breaker.

However Focus Sash Empolean has alot of merit as being one of the main special attackers out there who can really punish something if it gets that one turn in and ignores Sandstorm damage too. The only other one being Omastar who although being slightly stronger doesn't enjoy the benefit of Torrent kicking in.

However theres a far superior set I use for Empolean but I don't really wish to elaborate on since I'm almost sure someone would borrow it. Its straightforward enough so somebody else will probably catch on sooner or later.

Empoleon has a usable Choice movepool, including Surf/Ice Beam and two of Grass Knot, HP Electric, and Aqua Jet. Maybe even Hydro Cannon.

Its definitely feasible oddly. I had Hydro Cannon on one of my Empolean's as a filler while I was saving for a TM. Took it for a spin on Wifi Battle Tower and alot of things it normally came short of OHKO'ing became OHKO's thanks the torrent boost on top of it.

Also funny thing was even bulky Milotic's took at least around 40-48% regions from a Torrent one despite the resistance. Though I've yet to see any versions with a sp.def investment so I can't vouch for those versions.