1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Cinccino (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Omicron, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    [​IMG]
    Cinccino

    QC: [Oglemi] [Honko] [PK Gaming]
    GP: [sirndpt] [NixHex (credit to shakeitup]

    [Overview]

    <p>Cinccino is quite possibly one of the most adorable Pokemon introduced in BW, but it isn't limited to just being cute. With a blazing base 115 Speed, a decent base 95 Attack, and a great ability in Technician, it is capable of sweeping in a heartbeat. Cinccino also has one of the most expansive movepools with which to abuse Technician. Wake-Up Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and STAB Tail Slap provide excellent coverage and all gain a power boost from Technician. However, while its offensive prowess is exceptional, its defenses are lacking. Thanks to its lackluster Normal typing, Cinccino is also prone to powerful priority attacks, and is easily KOed by any Fighting-type attack. In addition, it is easily walled by Tangrowth and Uxie thanks to their massive Defense stats. Nonetheless, despite its obvious flaws, Cinccino is fast, powerful, and ridiculously cute! What more could you ask for?</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Attacker
    move 1: Tail Slap / Return
    move 2: Wake-Up Slap
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Bullet Seed / Aqua Tail / Work Up
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Technician
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As previously mentioned, Cinccino has one of the best movepools with which to utilize Technician. All the moves listed, with the exception of Return and Aqua Tail, all gain a boost from Technician, and Tail Slap is even further boosted by STAB. Unfortunately, as powerful as it is, Tail Slap has an infuriating accuracy of 85%, making it somewhat unreliable. For this reason, Return is a perfectly viable alternative STAB, as it does a similar amount of damage. Wake-Up Slap is a rather unorthodox option, but is Cinccino's strongest form of offense against Steel-types, and, courtesy of Technician, has a usable 90 Base Power. Rock Blast is an incredibly useful multi-hit move that gains super effective coverage on Flying-types, especially those with a 4x weakness to Rock-type attacks, such as Charizard and Moltres; it also has the added benefit of breaking the Substitutes of most offensive Pokemon. Bullet Seed is another multi-hit move that destroys Rock- and Ground-types, as well as Water- and Ground-types, and breaks through most Substitutes. If bulky Water-types aren't an issue, Aqua Tail hits Rock- and Ground-types just as hard, though the 90% accuracy is a major letdown. You can also choose to forgo a coverage move for Work Up, Cinccino's only boosting move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is mandatory to increase the power of Cinccino's attacks, as Leftovers won't be of much use to a Pokemon with such poor defensive stats. Technician is the preferred ability, as Cute Charm is useless in competitive play. A Jolly nature is recommended to outspeed the most Pokemon possible, but an Adamant nature is viable for more power, especially since Cinccino still outspeeds positive base 100 Speed opponents. The EV spread is simple and straightforward; you should never invest in anything other than Speed and Attack with an offensively oriented Pokemon such as Cinccino. Despite Technician's significant power boost, entry hazards are still appreciated, as Cinccino's base 95 Attack is still only decent at best. On that note, Rapid Spin support is important to ensure Cinccino stays around for as long as possible, as Life Orb recoil adds up quickly. Claydol is the best partner for Cinccino, as it resists Fighting-type attacks; in return, Cinccino is immune to Ghost-type attacks. In addition to removing hazards, Claydol can set up Stealth Rock, and also eliminate most Steel-types with its Ground-type STAB moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Tail Slap / Return
    move 2: Wake-Up Slap
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Bullet Seed / Aqua Tail / U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
    ability: Technician
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this set may seem similar to the Life Orb set at first glance, there is one crucial difference: the item. Despite the limiting side effects of using a Choice item, Cinccino can easily abuse one with its high Speed and access to U-turn. Other than U-turn, the rest of the moveset is identical to the Life Orb set, consisting of STAB Tail Slap / Return, Rock Blast to hit Flying-types, and Bullet Seed or Aqua Tail to hit Water- and Ground-types or Rock- and Water-types, respectively. U-turn is a great scouting move, but the versatile coverage of Bullet Seed and Aqua Tail cannot be ignored.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice (no pun intended) of item depends on your team's needs. Choice Scarf greatly increases Cinccino's Speed, turning it into a very effective revenge killer able to outspeed virtually everything in the metagame thanks to its already high base 115 Speed. On the other hand, Choice Band patches up the Choice Scarf set's power deficiency by significantly increasing Cinccino's damage output. As per usual, Rapid Spin support and entry hazard support is much appreciated, and Claydol is yet again the best candidate to fulfill both roles. Additional teammates that can take out Ghost- and Steel-types are greatly appreciated, as the majority of Cinccino's moves don't do much damage to these Pokemon. Despite sharing a Fighting-type weakness with Cinccino, Magneton can easily trap and kill most Steel-types thanks to its ability: Magnet Pull. Strong Pursuit users such as Krookodile can help to eliminate Ghost-types, while Psychic-types such as Kadabra can help with the annoying Fighting-types that plague the RU tier. Dugtrio is an excellent teammate that can also trap and KO Steel-types, but it is frail, and often lacks the power to outright OHKO most bulky Steel- and Rock-types. Wynaut is also a great option to get rid of virtually anything that troubles Cinccino, as it can trap and KO the opposing Pokemon with Counter / Mirror Coat, or give Cinccino a free turn by Encoring the right move.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cinccino has loads of other options, but it doesn't really execute them well, or at least better than other Pokemon. Sing is an option that instantly cripples an opponent, but its terrible accuracy is incredibly off-putting. Encore can force a few switches and rack up entry hazard damage, but requires Cinccino to forgo one of its coverage moves. Tickle is an alternative to Work Up, as it lowers the opponent's Attack and Defense, but the opponent can simply switch out, rendering the stat drops useless. Substitute can work well with Cinccino's high Speed, but, again, forces Cinccino to give up one of its coverage moves. Knock Off screws over a lot of Pokemon in RU, but the power output is very low, even with the Technician boost, and has little utility otherwise. Gimmick sets such as ones involving Last Resort, and Endure + Flail, are possible, but aren't usually that effective. Grass Knot and other special moves such as Thunderbolt and Focus Blast are available to Cinccino, but will do negligible damage thanks to its abysmal Special Attack. Likewise, Calm Mind is available, but doesn't really work well with Cinccino's terrible Special Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    Rhydon is a decent check, but takes major damage from Bullet Seed and Aqua Tail. In the same vein, Steelix does a good job of walling Cinccino, and can hit back hard with STAB Gyro Ball and Earthquake; Steelix also takes a pittance from Wake-Up Slap and Aqua Tail thanks to its sky-high Defense. Ferroseed resists Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Aqua Tail, and Tail Slap / Return, takes relatively little damage from Wake-Up Slap, and can hit back hard with Gyro Ball or paralyze with Thunder Wave. Bulky Steel-types in general can easily wall Cinccino, even ones running Wake-Up Slap. Similarly, bulky Ghost-types such as Cofagrigus and Dusknoir can take multiple hits and cripple Cinccino with Will-O-Wisp. Tangrowth shrugs off anything Cinccino throws at it, and can cripple Cinccino with Sleep Powder, or hit hard with its STAB attacks. Gligar is also a huge pain to deal with thanks to its mammoth Defense and access to instant recovery in the form of Roost. Choice Scarf users can easily revenge non-Choice Scarf Cinccino thanks to Cinccino's terrible defenses.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Cinccino receives Skill Link from the Dream World, which can be used to guarantee all of its multi-hit moves such as Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast will hit five times, giving them an effective Base Power of 125 each. This is a much more reliable ability than Technician, but Cinccino loses its 90 Base Power Wake-Up Slap, and consequently fares worse against Steel-types.</p>
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,025
    omicron, rhydon is not a counter to cincinno 252/0 rhydon takes this much from LO bullet seed hitting two times

    (44.44% - 53.14%)

    Three (65.70% - 78.26%)

    Four (88.89% - 105.31%)

    Five (110.14% - 130.43%)

    therefore, rhydon cannot switch into Cincinno makin' it a check at best ^^

    Perhaps give ferroseed special mention as a counter, it 4x resists bullet seed, 2x resists rock blast and sweep slap, along wit tail slap getting MOAR recoil from irob barbs. while being able to hit back with gyro ball.

    other wise, nice job :)

    Edit: sorry these calcs are incorrect, they actually do a little bit more, entered 296 def+1 it was 276+1 i should have entered
  3. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,642
    Looks good. Cinccino shouldn't be using anything else.

    Except maybe Substitute and Encore (not on the same set) AC mention for both on the LO set. Why does the Choice set have an Adamant nature listed? Jolly should be the only option IMO, as the Speed is crucial.
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,299
    Played with Cincinno tonight and it's fucking brilliant. It's like Ambipom but with awesome coverage moves. Too bad Wake-Up Slap isn't a multi-hit move too....

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,169
    yeah, ferroseed seems to be cincinnos best counter

    God this pokemon is actually... Great! I just used it and its blazing speed and good attack, not to mention coverage mean it's a definitive threat. Gonna have to keep this little guy in mind when making teams
  6. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    If Steel-types (especially Ferroseed) are such blocks to Cinccino, then why is Magneton not mentioned as a partner? I mean sure, it shares a Fighting-type weakness with the little mouse, but it needs a mention.

    Jeesh, this thing is awesome. I thought about brining it up for an analysis, but never had the time... glad somebody picked it up already.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Yep thanks for the input, I added more teammates and added bulky Ghost-types to the Checks and Counters section.

    Also, Cinccino is ridiculously good...
  8. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,172
    QC APPROVED 2/3
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,025
    Perhaps mention Tangrowth as a counter? it walled your cincinno pretty well and damages it seriously with power whip.
  10. StruggleSweep

    StruggleSweep

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    45
    I just ran some Calcs. Eviolite Gligar takes nearly nothing from his moves (even Banded Return) so you could list Gligar as a counter.
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  12. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    remove add comments

    GP APPROVED (1/2)

    [​IMG]
  13. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,887
    Amateur GP Check
    Remove Add
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Cinccino is quite possibly one of the most adorable Pokemon introduced in BW, but it isn't limited to just being cute. With a blazing base 115 Speed, a decent base 95 Attack, and a great ability in Technician, it is capable of sweeping in a heartbeat. Cinccino also has one of the most expansive movepools with which to abuse Technician. Wake-Up Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and STAB Tail Slap provide excellent coverage and all gain a power boost from Technician. However, while its offensive prowess is exceptional, its defenses are lacking. Thanks to its lackluster Normal typing, Cinccino is also prone to powerful priority attacks, and is easily KOed by any Fighting-type attack. In addition, it is easily walled by Tangrowth and Uxie thanks to their massive Defense stats. Nonetheless, despite its obvious flaws, Cinccino is fast, powerful, and ridiculously cute! What more could you ask for?</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Attacker
    move 1: Tail Slap / Return
    move 2: Wake-Up Slap
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Bullet Seed / Aqua Tail / Work Up
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Technician
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As previously mentioned, Cinccino has one of the best movepools with which to utilize Technician. All the moves listed, with the exception of Return and Aqua Tail, all gain a boost from Technician, and Tail Slap is even further boosted by STAB. Unfortunately, as powerful as it is, Tail Slap has an infuriating accuracy of 85%, making it somewhat unreliable. For this reason, Return is a perfectly viable alternative STAB, which as it does a similar amount of damage. Wake-Up Slap is a rather unorthodox option, but is Cinccino's strongest form of offense against Steel-types, and, (comma) courtesy of Technician, has a usable 90 Base Power. Rock Blast is an incredibly useful multi-hit move that gains super effective coverage on Flying-types, especially those with a 4x weakness to Rock-type attacks, such as Charizard and Moltres; it also has the added benefit of breaking the Substitutes of most offensive Pokemon. Bullet Seed is another multi-hit move that destroys Rock- and Ground-types, as well as Water- and Ground-types, and breaks through most Substitutes. If bulky Water-types aren't an issue, Aqua Tail hits Rock- and Ground-types just as hard, though the 90% accuracy is a major letdown. You can also choose to forgo a coverage move for Work Up, Cinccino's only boosting move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is mandatory to increase the power of Cinccino's attacks, as Leftovers won't be of much use to a Pokemon with such poor defensive stats. Technician is the preferred ability, as Cute Charm is useless in competitive play. A Jolly nature is recommended to outspeed the most Pokemon possible, but an Adamant nature is viable for more power, and especially since Cinccino still outspeeds positive base 100 Speed opponents. The EV spread is simple and straightforward; you should never invest in anything other than Speed and Attack with an offensively oriented Pokemon such as Cinccino. Despite Technician's significant power boost, entry hazards are still appreciated, as Cinccino's base 95 Attack is still only decent at best. On that note, Rapid Spin support is important to ensure Cinccino stays around for as long as possible, as Life Orb recoil adds up quickly. Claydol is the best partner for Cinccino, as it resists Fighting-type attacks; (semicolon) while in return, Cinccino is immune to Ghost-type attacks. In addition to removing hazards, Claydol can set up Stealth Rock, and also eliminate most Steel-types with its Ground-type STAB moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Tail Slap / Return
    move 2: Wake-Up Slap
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Bullet Seed / Aqua Tail / U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
    ability: Technician
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this set may seem similar to the Life Orb set at first glance, there is one crucial difference: the item. Despite the limiting side effects of using a Choice item, Cinccino can easily abuse one with its high Speed and access to U-turn. Other than U-turn, the rest of the moveset is identical to the Life Orb set, consisting of STAB Tail Slap / Return, Rock Blast to hit Flying-types, and Bullet Seed or Aqua Tail to hit Water- and Ground-types or Rock- and Water-types, (comma) respectively. U-turn is a great scouting move, but the versatile coverage of Bullet Seed and Aqua Tail cannot be ignored.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice (no pun intended) of item depends on your team's needs. Choice Scarf greatly increases Cinccino's Speed, turning it into a very effective revenge killer able to outspeed virtually everything in the metagame thanks to its already high base 115 Speed. On the other hand, Choice Band patches up the Choice Scarf set's power deficiency by significantly increasing Cinccino's damage output. As per usual, Rapid Spin support and entry hazard support is much appreciated, and Claydol is yet again the best candidate to fulfill both roles. Additional teammates that can take out Ghost- and Steel-types are greatly appreciated, as the majority of Cinccino's moves don't do much damage to these Pokemon. Despite sharing a Fighting-type weakness with Cinccino, Magneton can easily trap and kill most Steel-types thanks to its ability: (colon) , Magnet Pull. Strong Pursuit users such as Krookodile can help to eliminate Ghost-types, while Psychic-types such as Kadabra can help with the annoying Fighting-types that plague the RU tier. Dugtrio is an excellent teammate that can also trap and KO Steel-types, but it is frail, and often lacks the power to outright OHKO most bulky Steel- and Rock-types. Wynaut is also a great option to get rid of virtually anything that troubles Cinccino, as it can trap and KO the opposing Pokemon with Counter / Mirror Coat, or give Cinccino a free turn by Encoring the right move.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cinccino has loads of other options, but it doesn't really execute them well, or at least better than other Pokemon. Sing is an option that instantly cripples an opponent, but its terrible accuracy is incredibly off-putting. Encore can force a few switches and rack up entry hazard damage, but requires Cinccino to forgo one of its coverage moves. Tickle is an alternative to Work Up, as it lowers the opponent's Attack and Defense, but the opponent can simply switch out, rendering the stat drops useless. Substitute can work well with Cinccino's high Speed, but, again, forces Cinccino to give up one of its coverage moves. Knock Off screws over a lot of Pokemon in RU, but the power output is very low, even with the Technician boost, and has little utility otherwise. Gimmick sets such as ones involving Last Resort, and Endure + Flail, are possible, but aren't usually that effective. Grass Knot and other special moves such as Thunderbolt and Focus Blast are available to Cinccino, but will do negligible damage thanks to its abysmal Special Attack. Likewise, Calm Mind is available, but doesn't really work well with Cinccino's terrible Special Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    Rhydon is a decent check, but takes major damage from Bullet Seed and Aqua Tail. In the same vein, Steelix does a good job of walling Cinccino, and can hit back hard with STAB Gyro Ball and Earthquake; Steelix also takes a pittance from Wake-Up Slap and Aqua Tail thanks to its sky-high Defense. Ferroseed resists Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Aqua Tail, and Tail Slap / Return, takes relatively little damage from Wake-Up Slap, and can hit back hard with Gyro Ball or paralyze with Thunder Wave. Bulky Steel-types in general can easily wall Cinccino, even ones running Wake-Up Slap. Similarly, bulky Ghost-types such as Cofagrigus and Dusknoir can take multiple hits and cripple Cinccino with Will-O-Wisp. Tangrowth shrugs off anything Cinccino throws at it, and can cripple Cinccino with Sleep Powder, or hit hard with its STAB attacks. Gligar is also a huge pain to deal with thanks to its mammoth Defense and access to instant recovery in the form of Roost. Choice Scarf users can easily revenge non-Choice Scarf Cinccino thanks to its Cinccino's terrible defenses.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Cinccino receives Skill Link from the Dream World, which can be used to guarantee all of its multi-hit moves such as Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast will hit five times, giving them an effective Base Power of 125 each. This is a much more reliable ability than Technician, but Cinccino loses its 90 Base Power Wake-Up Slap, and consequently fares worse against Steel-types.</p>
  14. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Am check implemented, thanks!
  15. NixHex

    NixHex musty_yugoslavian_teacher
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,678
    Stamped
    [​IMG]
    [GP 2/2]

    oh yeah, uploaded. needs cached.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)