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[COMPLETED] Greninja

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by SOMALIA, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    QC APPROVED (3/3)
    GP APPROVED (1/1)

    [​IMG]
    Pokedex Number
    - #658

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Great coverage and movepool.</li>
    <li>Amazing ability in Protean, enabling it to get STAB on its moves regardless of their type as Greninja itself becomes the type of the attack being used. This in turn can cause some mind games to occur.</li>
    <li>High base Speed in addition to access to Spikes.</li>
    <li>Has access to two priority moves, Shadow Sneak and Water Shuriken.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Sports poor defenses (67/71) and weak to many of the common attacking types.</li>
    <li>While Protean is a good ability with many positives, it also has an ugly side. After executing the relevant attack, Greninja may find itself in a bit of a bad spot (For instance, using Ice Beam will expose it to Steel- and Fire-type attacks which it was able to take on to a certain extent with its original typing).</li>
    <li>Has no boosting moves outside of Power-Up Punch, which is a letdown considering it does not have the best of offenses.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: All-Out Attacker<br />
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    move 2: Ice Beam<br />
    move 3: Dark Pulse<br />
    move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire<br />
    ability: Protean<br />
    item: Life Orb<br />
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Hasty / Timid</p>

    <p>This is a full-on attacking set. Hydro Pump is a solid Water-type attack, and despite the slight nerf is still pretty deadly. Ice Beam is necessary in order to take out pesky Grass- and Dragon-types. The third moveslot features Dark Pulse which generally has good coverage with the rest of the moves on this set. For the final moveslot, U-turn can be used for momentum-grabbing purposes and complements Greninja's blazing Speed. Alternatively, Hidden Power Fire can be used,and is helpful primarily for Pokemon who are 4x weak to it, such as Scizor and Ferrothorn. Despite the Life Orb boost, Greninja still is in need of entry hazard support, which is vital for securing numerous OHKOs and 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>This Greninja in particular is generally most effective mid-game to late-game and is focused on putting pressure on the opposing team by spamming its Protean-made STAB attacks. When faced with something you cannot defeat, simply take Greninja's blazing speed to your advantage and U-turn out of there. As it can act as a momentum grabber with U-turn, it is key to have other Pokemon which can take advantage of the Pokemon it lures in. While Grass Knot may not see much use on Greninja, it is the only way in which Greninja can dispose of Gyarados with ease, landing a 2HKO on Gyarados while outright OHKOing Mega Gyarados.</p>

    <p>name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes<br />
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    move 3: Dark Pulse / Ice Beam<br />
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire<br />
    ability: Protean<br />
    item: Life Orb<br />
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    nature: Timid</p>

    <p>This set allows Greninja to support its team, while still being a potent force to be reckoned with, by setting up a layer or two of Spikes, made easier thanks to its high base Speed. Power versus accuracy is what determines your choice for moveslot two. Dark Pulse, despite being resisted by Fairy-types, now has the added benefit of not being resisted by Steel-types, and cleanly finishes off Starmie as well as denting Tentacruel, who otherwise walls you to hell and back. Alternatively, Ice Beam stops Dragonite and company cold, literally. It also allows for the 2HKO on Togekiss after Stealth Rock damage in addition to nailing Crobat. Finally, Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit those Steel-types that are 4x weak to Fire-type attacks. This set is designed to be used early on in the game and put a considerable amount of pressure on the opponent from the get-go.</p>

    <p>A Timid nature is used to ensure no drops in either defensive stat. Life Orb can be used for maximum damage output, or a Focus Sash can be used to ensure more layers of Spikes being set up. This set ensures that the Spikes that are set up are not removed while Greninja is on the field, as Greninja can OHKO most Rapid Spinners, as well as Scizor / Mega Scizor, who can use Defog.</p>

    <p>An alternative set consisting of Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Hydro Pump (or Surf) and Taunt can be utilized as Greninja is arguably the best dual Spiker in the game, because of its high Speed, access to Taunt, and Torrent ability, which boosts its Water-type move once Focus Sash has been activated. Taking advantage of Team Preview to lay the appropriate hazard is key, such as Spikes if your sweeper is walled by their Ferrothorn, or Toxic Spikes if it's walled by their Blissey.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey, Tentacruel, and Fairy-type Pokemon such as Azumarill and Florges all spring to mind when one wants to deal with this pesky amphibian. Ferrothorn can tank all of Greninja's common moves; however, it has to watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Both Gyarados and Rotom-W can take any hit Greninja wants to throw relatively well and retaliate with their STAB attacks.</p>

    <p>Revenge killing Greninja is not the hardest thing in the world. Mach Punch from Conkeldurr and Breloom can send this ninja packing for a one-way trip to the shadow realm. Choice Band priority users such as Dragonite can also do a number on Greninja. Bringing Greninja down to a range where it can be OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed is not hard at all; between residual damage from entry hazards and Life Orb, Greninja can be worn down alarmingly quickly. Talonflame easily outpaces Greninja and can end its life with a single swipe of its wings using Brave Bird. Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W and naturally faster Pokemon (such as Crobat) can outspeed and finish Greninja with their powerful STAB attacks.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  2. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    nothing about hp ghost's synergy with protean and spikes?


    -
    there should be some physical or mixed set at least; you mention shadow sneak and water shuriken but never bring them up again. 95 attack isn't great but not terrible either. it also gets power up punch, but no sp atk boosting move. +1 off base 95 is better than +0 off 103.

    greninja @ life orb / leftovers
    jolly/adamant
    protean
    - waterfall
    - night slash / shadow sneak
    - power up punch
    - u-turn / return

    ~ water shuriken is an option if you want priority but waterfall is always stronger.
    ~ night slash also gives good synergy with power up punch. shadow sneak also gives you good coverage with PUP and priority, but weaker.
    ~ power up punch boosts attack to more acceptable levels
    ~ u-turn with high speed is useful if you run into something that you can't KO just yet, while return has good type coverage with water.
    SOMALIA likes this.
  3. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    I appreciate your post, however as stated this is work in process. Hidden power ghost will be mentioned in OO.

    EDIT: Sorry about that, I will change the title to make it more noticeable.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  4. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    sorry, didn't mean to step on any toes. I didn't see the letters at the very top.
  5. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    This thing gets Taunt, something nifty for a Spiker with an incredibly high base speed (think how well it works on Froslass). Definitely deserves at least a mention, if not a slash on the Spikes set when paired with Focus Sash
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    The best moves to deal with Defog users and Rapid Spinners are Hidden Power Fire and Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse 3HKOes Tentacruel and OHKOes Starmie, and Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Forretrees, Skarmory (without the risky accuracy of Hydro Pump) Scizor, and Mega Scizor. Ice Beam is nice to deal with other Defog users such as Crobat and Togekiss, so it really depends on which Pokemon end up being more common. This is how i think the Spikes set should look like:

    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Dark Pulse / Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire

    Oh, and i don't really like Focus Sash but maybe that's just me.
  7. srk1214

    srk1214 You are people yes ou no?
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    I think you can downplay the negatives of Protean a bit more. Using Ice Beam will not leave you weak to Fire moves, in reality, since Greninja will outspeed most things and can change its type around more or less at will. It does make you weak to Bullet Punch, which is a huge downer, but most weaknesses caused won't matter, unless priority.

    And yeah Water Shuriken merits a set I think, mine's a tad different:

    greninja @ life orb
    jolly/adamant
    protean
    - water shuriken
    - night slash / shadow sneak
    - return
    - u-turn

    So what did I change? Replaced Waterfall with Water Shuriken. This gets rid of our most reliable "STAB," but all moves from Protean have STAB. This gives us a good priority move with an average power of 45 (assuming the % distributin of 2-5 moves is the same). The next slot is devoted to coverage on Psychics/Ghosts. If dual-priority is desired, Shadow Sneak, else Night Slash. Return is really necessary if you're going to drop Waterfall. It gives us a 102 BP "STAB" move with very solid neutral coverage. U-turn is awesome, need I say more. Power-Up Punch would be nice, but at the end of the day, it's pretty darn weak on Greninja, offers no priority, and +1 boosts aren't as good as they seem.

    The reason I think this set is better is that Water Shuriken is the better priority move for Greninja to have, compared to Shadow Sneak, since it is on average stronger, and has a chance to be near ExtremeSpeed strength. Meanwhile Return is very solid "STAB" to have, so missing out on your reliable Water STAB is not important.
  8. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    I specifically said 'while it has many positives it does have an ugly side'. That isn't making it look worse then it really is, I simply was stating the negatives of it. Regardless, it is a minor disadvantage but has to be mentioned as there will be instances where you can perhaps 2hko a mon but are forced to switch due to the previous turn (you used a move that will change your typing to an unfavourable one).

    Me and the other QC members discussed a physical set and decided not to add it. You explained what each move is, but what exactly does this set do? And no, Power Up Punch takes up a valuable space and a base 40 move giving you a 1 isn't really going to cut it but it is mentioned in OO. In addition to the aforementioned, in practise it isn't as easy to just spam Power Up Punch. I fail to see what this set accomplishes other than just hurt something and get killed in the upcoming turns.

    Thank you for the suggestion anyways.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  9. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
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    Greninja doesn't get Energy Ball =/

    It gets Grass Knot, and that's about it. It's nice for stuff like Tyranitar and Hippowdon where Hydro Pump is a bit less reliable (and hits less because of the nerf, though I could be wrong), and I guess it would also be nice for some other fatter Water-types as well.
  10. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    I'm slipping today, good lord. i was told that it got it and just went of that rather than checking. Fixed that and double checked the analysis. Thanks alot Plus.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    HAPPY 6TH GEN BITCHES

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  12. srk1214

    srk1214 You are people yes ou no?
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    Somalia, if you read more carefully, I didn't even include Power-Up Punch, but rather was explaining (in the same way you did) why it isn't a good option. I was differentiating mine from darkie's.

    Regardless, if Physical Greninja not getting a set, that's understandable too. It's inferior to most other things Greninja can do. But still, that rejection was indicated nowhere on this page. QC should probably go ahead and post decisions like those in comments to stop people posting sets or comments on sets that won't make the cut.
  13. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Thanks^^

    I understand, however in OO, it states that a physical variant can be used meaning that it won't get a set of its own. I'll make sure to leave it in the comments if a certain set will be outright rejected in the future. Thanks alot for the suggestion
  14. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    You might as well slash Toxic Spikes in the second set. The nice thing about Toxic Spikes is that at least one layer will help you out if the enemy team isn't chocked full of levitate / poison / steel. It also has the extra benefit of removing the Fairy weakness for a turn and creating more of a mind-game with Protean.
  15. Snunch

    Snunch
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    I like what you have down. Your EVs are off on the first set (4 Atk / 252 Atk), but other than that this looks good. I do think this set is worth adding though, either as a full set or in OO:

    <p>Greninja@Focus Sash<br />
    Ability: Torrent<br />
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Taunt<br />
    - Spikes<br />
    - Toxic Spikes<br />
    - Surf</p>

    Greninja is the best dual spiker in the game, because of its high speed, access to taunt, and torrent ability to boost surf once sash has activated. You can take advantage of team preview to lay the appropriate hazard, such as spikes if your sweeper is walled by their Ferrothorn, or toxic spikes if it's walled by their Blissey.
  16. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Yeah, Toxic Spikes is pretty good and Greninja is no doubt the top (fr)og in setting up both types of spikes. I feel that it is good enough to warrant a mention in AC (A combination of Taunt/T-Spikes and Spikes can be used and explain why).
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    We don't need an OO section SOMALIA.
  18. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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  19. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    QC APPROVED 2/3
  20. Fluffy Blue Bunny

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    Would it be worth noting on the first set to mention running a Naive nature? To me, I'm a bit confused why everyone universally recommends hasty. With Naive, the player has the benefit of having higher chances of surviving Scizor's bullet punch and (importantly) Aegislash's shadow sneak. Since these are really relevant threats, I think Naive might be a better nature than Hasty. Y'all probably know best, but I just figured I'd share my two cents.
  21. Snunch

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  22. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Valid point however I'd rather not compromise its decent Special Defense stat just to take priority better. Aegislash ohkoes you with Sacred Sword regardless and it using Shadow Sneak will only be when you are at low range, the difference is very minimal regardless considering the amount you take from Scizor/Megascizor's Bullet Punch as well (which when factored that Greninja will usually be using Life Orb or a non-recovery item) the difference between the certain 3hko or a marginal 3hko is of little relevance.

    252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Starmie (-Def) : 43.86% - 51.58% (2-3 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Starmie: 39.3% - 46.32% (3 hits to KO)

    If you are some Spikes variant without Life orb (maybe sash), Scizor isnt going to come in turn 1 and spam bullet Punch...it'll either U-Turn or set-up or hard switch-out fearing HP Fire. Therefore Naive nature is irrelevant.

    Banded Dragonite 2hkoes you regardless with E-speed so no difference there, while the dd variant 2hkoes hasty nature but has a high chance to also 2hko Naive (iirc 65% chance)....factoring LO or Stealth Rock recoil you die regardless. DD Nite might be the only Pokemon that might matter in some way but that alone isn't reason enough to change the nature when i think that taking stray non-super effective Special Attacks is far more important.


    Ready for GP!
    Fluffy Blue Bunny likes this.
  23. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Great coverage and movepool.(AP)</li>
    <li>Amazing ability in Protean, enabling it to get STAB on its moves regardless of their type as Greninja itself becomes the type of the attack being used. This in turn can cause some mind games to occur.(no space)</li>
    <li>High base Speed in addition to access to Spikes.</li>
    <li>Has access to two priority moves, Shadow Sneak and Water Shuriken.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Sports poor defenses (67/71) and weak to many of the common types.</li>
    <li>While Protean is a good ability with many positives, it also has an ugly side. After executing the relevant attack, Greninja may find itself in a bit of a bad spot (For instance, using Ice Beam will expose it to Steel- and Fire-type attacks which it was able to take on to a certain extent with its original typing).</li>
    <li>Has no boosting moves outside of Power-Up Punch, which is a let down considering it does not have the best of offenses.</li>
    </ul>


    <p>Greninja@Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Protean<br />
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Hasty / Timid Nature<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf <br />
    - Ice Beam<br />
    - Dark Pulse<br />
    - U-turn / Hidden Power Fire</p>


    <p>Full on attack set. Hydro Pump is a solid Water-type STAB attack, and despite the slight nerf, is pretty deadly. Ice Beam to take out pesky Grass-(add hyphen) and Dragon-types. The third moveslot features Dark Pulse which is designed to give Starmie a world of pain. Not to mention it does some solid damage to Tentacruel. The former move. U-turn can be used for momentum-(add hyphen)grabbing purposes and compliments Greninja's blazing Speed. Alternatively, Hidden Power Fire can be used and is primarily for Pokemon who are 4x weak to it such as Scizor and Ferrothorn; as it has low Base Power and would not do much to Pokemon who only are only 2x weak to it, you are better of firing off a Hydro Pump in those situations. Despite the Life Orb boost, Greninja still is need of entry hazard support which is vital for securing numerous OHKOs and 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>This Greninja in particular is generally most effective mid-(add hyphen)game to late-(add hyphen)game as it requires entry hazard support to ensure various OHKOs and 2HKOs. As it can act as a momentum grabber with U-turn, it is key to have other Pokemon which can take advantage of the Pokemon it lures in.</p>

    <p>Greninja @ Life Orb / Focus Sash<br />
    Ability: Protean / Torrent<br />
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Spikes<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    - Dark Pulse / Ice Beam<br />
    - Hidden Power Fire </p>


    <p>This set allows Greninja to be a potent force to be reckoned in addition to setting up a layer or two of Spikes thanks to its high base Speed. Power over accuracy is what it is all about in moveslot two. Dark Pulse, despite being resisted by Fairy-types, now has the added benefit of not being resisted by Steel-types. Dark Pulse finishes off Starmie and can dent Tentacruel who otherwise walls you to hell and back. Ice Beam stops Dragonite and company cold, literally. It also allows the 2HKO on Togekiss after Stealth Rock damage in addition to nailing Crobat. It doesn't stop there, Hidden power Fire can be used to hit Steel-types which sport typings that make them 4x weak to Fire-type attacks. This set is designed to be used early game and put a considerable amount of pressure from the get-go.</p>

    <p>As Greninja sports a better Sp.Def stat compared to its def stat, it is only natural to run a nature that would not lower the former. A Timid nature is used to ensure no drops in either defense stat. Life Orb for maximum damage output or a Focus Sash can be used to ensure more layers being set up. This set ensures that the Spikes that are set-up stay on the field as Greninja can ohko Spinners and Scizor/MegaScizor who can simply Defog the arena.</p>

    <p>An alternative set consisting of Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Hydro Pump (or Surf) and Taunt can be utilized as Greninja is arguably the best dual spiker in the game, because of its high speed, access to taunt, and torrent ability to boost its Water-type move once sash has been activated. Taking advantage of team preview to lay the appropriate hazard is key, such as spikes if your sweeper is walled by their Ferrothorn, or Toxic Spikes if it's walled by their Blissey.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey, Tentacruel, and Fairy-type Pokemon such as Azumarill and Florges all spring to mind when one wants to deal with this pesky reptile. Ferrothorn can tank all of Greninja's moves however it has to watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Both Gyarados and Rotom-W can take any hit Greninja wants to throw relatively well and retaliate with their STAB attacks.</p>

    <p>Revenge killing Greninja is not the hardest thing in the world. Mach Punch from Conkeldur and Breloom can send this ninja packing for a one-way trip to the shadow realm. Choice Band priority users such as Dragonite can also do a number on Greninja. Brining Greninja down to a range where it can be OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed is not hard at all; between residual damage from hazards and Life Orb. Talonflame easily outpaces Greninja and can end its life with a single swipe of its wings using Brave Bird. Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W and naturally faster Pokemon (such as Crobat) can outspeed and finish Greninja with their powerful STAB attacks.</p>
    Ok so there's a lot of changes i'll just provide a c/p :(

    cp (open)

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Great coverage and movepool.</li>
    <li>Amazing ability in Protean, enabling it to get STAB on its moves regardless of their type as Greninja itself becomes the type of the attack being used. This in turn can cause some mind games to occur.</li>
    <li>High base Speed in addition to access to Spikes.</li>
    <li>Has access to two priority moves, Shadow Sneak and Water Shuriken.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>Sports poor defenses (67/71) and weak to many of the common types.</li>
    <li>While Protean is a good ability with many positives, it also has an ugly side. After executing the relevant attack, Greninja may find itself in a bit of a bad spot (For instance, using Ice Beam will expose it to Steel- and Fire-type attacks which it was able to take on to a certain extent with its original typing).</li>
    <li>Has no boosting moves outside of Power-Up Punch, which is a letdown considering it does not have the best of offenses.</li>
    </ul>


    <p>Greninja@Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Protean<br />
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Hasty / Timid Nature<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf <br />
    - Ice Beam<br />
    - Dark Pulse<br />
    - U-turn / Hidden Power Fire</p>


    <p>Full on attack set. Hydro Pump is a solid Water-type STAB attack, and despite the slight nerf, is pretty deadly. Ice Beam to take out pesky Grass- and Dragon-types. The third moveslot features Dark Pulse which is designed to give Starmie a world of pain. Not to mention it does some solid damage to Tentacruel. The former move.U-turn can be used for momentum-grabbing purposes and compliments Greninja's blazing Speed. Alternatively, Hidden Power Fire can be used and is primarily for Pokemon who are 4x weak to it such as Scizor and Ferrothorn; as it has low Base Power and would not do much to Pokemon who only are only 2x weak to it, you are better of firing off a Hydro Pump in those situations. Despite the Life Orb boost, Greninja still is need of entry hazard support which is vital for securing numerous OHKOs and 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>This Greninja in particular is generally most effective mid-game to late-game as it requires entry hazard support to ensure various OHKOs and 2HKOs. As it can act as a momentum grabber with U-turn, it is key to have other Pokemon which can take advantage of the Pokemon it lures in.</p>

    <p>Greninja @ Life Orb / Focus Sash<br />
    Ability: Protean / Torrent<br />
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
    Timid Nature<br />
    - Spikes<br />
    - Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
    - Dark Pulse / Ice Beam<br />
    - Hidden Power Fire </p>


    <p>This set allows Greninja to be a potent force to be reckoned in addition to setting up a layer or two of Spikes thanks to its high base Speed. Power over accuracy is what it is all about in moveslot two. Dark Pulse, despite being resisted by Fairy-types, now has the added benefit of not being resisted by Steel-types. Dark Pulse finishes off Starmie and can dent Tentacruel who otherwise walls you to hell and back. Ice Beam stops Dragonite and company cold, literally. It also allows the 2HKO on Togekiss after Stealth Rock damage in addition to nailing Crobat. It doesn't stop there, Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steel-types which sport typings that make them 4x weak to Fire-type attacks. This set is designed to be used early game and put a considerable amount of pressure from the get-go.</p>

    <p>As Greninja sports a better Special Defense stat compared to its Defense stat, it is only natural to run a nature that would not lower the former. A Timid nature is used to ensure no drops in either defensive stat. Life Orb for maximum damage output or a Focus Sash can be used to ensure more layers being set up. This set ensures that the Spikes that are set up stay on the field as Greninja can OHKO spinners and Scizor / Mega Scizor who can simply Defog the arena.</p>

    <p>An alternative set consisting of Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Hydro Pump (or Surf) and Taunt can be utilized as Greninja is arguably the best dual Spiker in the game, because of its high Speed, access to Taunt, and torrent ability to boost its Water-type move once Focus Sash has been activated. Taking advantage of Team Preview to lay the appropriate hazard is key, such as Spikes if your sweeper is walled by their Ferrothorn, or Toxic Spikes if it's walled by their Blissey.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey, Tentacruel, and Fairy-type Pokemon such as Azumarill and Florges all spring to mind when one wants to deal with this pesky reptile. Ferrothorn can tank all of Greninja's moves, however, it has to watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Both Gyarados and Rotom-W can take any hit Greninja wants to throw relatively well and retaliate with their STAB attacks.</p>

    <p>Revenge killing Greninja is not the hardest thing in the world. Mach Punch from Conkeldurr and Breloom can send this ninja packing for a one-way trip to the shadow realm. Choice Band priority users such as Dragonite can also do a number on Greninja. Bringing Greninja down to a range where it can be OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed is not hard at all; between residual damage from entry hazards and Life Orb. Talonflame easily outpaces Greninja and can end its life with a single swipe of its wings using Brave Bird. Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W and naturally faster Pokemon (such as Crobat) can outspeed and finish Greninja with their powerful STAB attacks.</p>

    About the periods in the start, I figured it was better to be consistent, though you can feel free to disagree ^_^
    also urgh sorry for the weird stuff this is messed up but the c/p is correct
  24. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    thanks alot, you are totally right. I implemented the changes^^
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  25. Jirachee

    Jirachee the taste of blood
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    ugh I know I'm really late about this, sorry. but is dark pulse really necessary on greninja? I mean, it gets STAB on all of its attacks anyway, so it's not like dark pulse is more powerful than other moves. I think it'd be more useful to use something like grass knot which has better coverage with its water moves which are going to be its main moves to spam anyway, and overall would make it a more dangerous sweeper.

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