Compulsory Military Service

[Pohjis]

I was going to write about the system here in my country, Finland, and about the experience I spent in the army for a very brief time since the subject of this thread really affected my life more or less in the last two years. But for some reason I deleted that message. I guess because my English is so terrible.

A lot of you guys have brought up the pros and cons of mandatory military service. I won't get into specific arguments you guys have brought up and I will let you continue with the debate. But just looking in Finland's history with the army, wars (for instance 1, 2, 3, 4) and the current security situation in Europe (especially 1, 2 and of course the European migrant crisis) I can fully understand why my country still has this system and most likely will have in the future regardless of the possibility of joining NATO sometime in the future.

The nearly two months I spent in the service were the two worst months of my life. The change of living, civilian to soldier, was too harsh to me and it caused to me severe depression from I am still recovering. The decision the psychiatrist made nearly two months ago and was accepted by the army council month ago for giving me a full release from service during peace time was the one of the best decision I did.

I could have given up after a week or two and go to civilian service as some the guys in my unit did. I tried to keep up the hope to continue but after seven weeks of service and last four weeks being "dead weight" (I wasn't mentally and physically able to participate in daily activities) I said to the psychiatrist that this can't continue. Even though I was the one making the decision, my mother (whose father got injured in the Second World War), my father (who server over five years in the army), my friends from school and unit understood and supported that it was the best decision for me.

I couldn't handle the pressure and lifestyle change but I respect everyone, even here on Smogon who goes to the military. Mandatory or voluntarily (hopefully those terms are written correctly), you are doing a great favor to your country and the experience you get during your service is unforgettable. I am proud of my two really close friends who are still in the army. One of them, the other one was in a flue so he couldn't come, even invited me to come to the canteen to see me. I gave him my support to continue to the very end. I wish my best regards to them and anyone who joins the military. It indeed is a huge lifestyle change.

e. But you are not a less good person if you have the option to not join and not serving for your country. There are other ways to help your country than military.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Military is compulsory for teenaged men in Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea. If one goes to university, it can be post-poned to after graduation.

However, from what I've heard of, it means a bunch of stupid people who don't want to be there, faffing about doing almost nothing.
These people's attitudes also strongly affect those who originally wanted to serve the military.

 

[sandshrewz]

Military is compulsory for teenaged men in Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea. If one goes to university, it can be post-poned to after graduation.

However, from what I've heard of, it means a bunch of stupid people who don't want to be there, faffing about doing almost nothing.
These people's attitudes also strongly affect those who originally wanted to serve the military.

FWIW, you can't postpone military service for university in Singapore haha :p

 

[JES]

Given that even volunteers have come back with PTSD, I'm not for compulsory military service. I think it is best left to the volunteers who have gauged the pros and the cons, and are willing to pay the price, to everyone being dragged into service. And if everyone were offered non-frontline/non-combat roles, I don't think that whatever quota they wanted to fill would end up being filled, since I think most people wouldn't want to be in infantry. I know I wouldn't, and probably wouldn't be effective in that role anyways!

I myself, if I HAD to enter military service, would probably enlist in the Air Force. I already have excellent hand-eye coordination from playing hours of video games, including air combat simulators such as Ace Combat, and between learning how to fly, and G-force training, I think it'd be a lot of fun. I've already managed to fly and land (with help, due to not knowing where the rudder controls are) a Cessna, and this was without any previous training. I swear that taking a ride in a fighter or trainer jet is one of those things I have to do one day, and being able to fly one is a pipe dream. In fact, my difficulty in finding a job to work up money for art classes has made me wonder if I've utilized my life wrongly, and if I should have enlisted in the Air Force instead, since I think I've heard the government will pay for college for enlistees.

But then, I haven't ever really lived on my own for a long period of time, I'm fiercely opinionated, and I'd imagine I'd butt heads with superior officers, since I'm not someone who would blindly follow orders, and if that's part of the training, well, let's just say I'll probably quickly get a reputation. If I'm shot at, I'd shooting back, but if there are civilians in the area, I'd hesitate, if outright to refusing to fire if it means putting them at risk. I'd imagine I'd be a huge court martial risk! It is one thing to kill what is essentially 1s and 0s, which will be there again when you replay a level. Killing a human being is another completely different thing. Plus, I wouldn't want my parents to be worried, especially my mom.

I only believe in using lethal force as a last resort, and I don't think most superiors would look highly upon such a stance.

Ironically, I also wouldn't like to fly transports or helicopters into a combat zone, because my way of thinking is being able to outrun and outmaneuver what you can't outgun or chip away at. Those are just target practice IMO.

 

[River Martini]

Those who have been through military service will tell you that this is is probably only 10% of what we do (all those fun parts you have described). Mostly we spent our time waiting for something to do, clean our areas or maintain our equipment.

 

[Codraroll]

Norway has compulsory military service... in theory. It's compulsory to participate in evaluation (or whatever the proper English word is), but since the actual military forces are so small, they don't need that many servicemen. Phase 1 of the evaluation is basically an online test asking if you're motivated. If you are, you're called in for phase 2, which tests whether you're capable (some physical tests, sight test, hearing test, etc). If you're capable, and still motivated, you're called in for a year of service. If not, well, they have a large pool of people who are more motivated than you, so you're not likely to be forced into service. For foreign operations, you have to volunteer for further service in separate divisions. Even with the compulsory year behind you, they won't send you to Afghanistan without your explicit permission, but if the Russians decide to cross the border, you have less of a choice.

I said I was motivated enough, and they deemed me capable, so I served a year in the artillery battalion's (yep, we've only got one) supply platoon. I'd say I had a pretty good time. We learned to take care of ourselves and each other, went through some infantry drilling (as a supply element, we wouldn't excatly be much on the front lines), and had some courses in everything from convoy driving, logistics and food handling, to first aid, discipline and camouflage. And winter survival, of course. Cleaning and maintaining our stuff made up the bulk of our day, though, River Martini hit that nail on the head. At least those skills are quite useful in civilian life as well. I also had my limits tested on a couple of occasions, and I'd say I benefitted from that. Feeling true exhaustion, stress or fear can be a good experience, if handled correctly. And I made good friends, that should also be mentioned.

One of the benefits of compulsory service is that it ties the military quite close to the civilian population. It gives the public at large a pretty good idea of what the military is about, what it's doing, how it works and shows the human side of it. The military isn't just a shady group separate from society, it is a side of society. Everybody knows somebody who's been in the military, or have served there themselves.


Of course, the system is expensive to maintain, and most soldiers leave service shortly after they're fully trained, so it's not a system that works on its own. The inclusion of more advanced weapons systems, which require more training, also means they need more soldiers for long-term contracts. You can't pull a random Ola off the street, spend ten months and tens of thousands of kroner teaching him how to use a Javelin system, and then send him off two months later, then repeat the procedure with a random Jens off the street. The system probably needs changing, but the politicians are not quite sure how.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

All males in the United States aged 18-25 are required to register for the Selective Service System. No non-registrant has been prosecuted since 1986, although the government will still bully you into agreeing to die by disqualifying you from voting and receiving federal student aid if you do not register within 30 days of your 18th birthday. Of course, it's unlikely that the United States will ever have to reinstate the draft, seeing as we have the largest military (budget-wise, China has the largest by number and US is #2) in the world by a long shot without conscription.

That being said, let's assume a hypothetical scenario involving a large enough war to warrant the reinstatement of conscription. In today's political climate, where people are largely opposed to conscription, I can't see constitutional challenges based on the Thirteenth Amendment not being brought up, and courts could very well overrule the existing precedent which was set in a pro-conscription political climate. The 13A argument is quite logical, seeing as conscription is involuntary servitude by definition. The way I see it, conscription is the worst kind of involuntary servitude as, given the risks associated with military service, it takes a big, steaming dump on the definition of informed consent. Risks of military service include death, dismemberment, and PTSD, and I ought to know about the latter as I have family members with PTSD from military service (I'm the only non-military male in my entire family following my brother's enlistment in the Air Force). With these inherent risks in mind, it just seems wrong to force people into service who 1) were not informed of the risks or 2) did not agree to them if they were informed of the risks. And this completely ignores arguments regarding gender inequality that would certainly be brought up in today's climate, seeing as only men would be drafted with how the SSS is currently set up.

Of course, my argument only applies to a country like the United States which can get a sizable military without mandatory service. In a smaller country where it's difficult to get a decently-sized military with just volunteers, conscription is probably a necessary evil.

 

[Nightingales]

I only read the OP...:

As a Canadian, I feel like enilisting is a very American idea that I (nor most of my friends) would ever support.

Join a book club...? Paint a picture about how angry you are (and show it on the internet)...? Break a glass dish...?

To be fair, a lot of enlisted personnel aren't angry. I'm actually rather happy with my decision to enlist, considering the shitty college / health care rates in the states. If I get some practical training, learn how to do things I wouldn't otherwise, and have a chance to build a career, I'm happy with that.

That being said, it's pretty cool to see how other countries run it. I'm not really well-educated in terms of foreign countries, so it's always interesting to see examples.