Conditions

[Asumi]

I posted my SnatchSpam team above for a reason: Snatch lets you live entirely at +4 priority, so not even Extreme Speed beats you. You steal all of the opponent's moves, and use them yourself. There's always switching, but then every turn against them is a giant 50-50 where the worst case for them is they lose 1 PP, and the worst case for you is they predicted your switch and hit you with something nasty for free. Snatch is an even more obvious quickban than Powder.

The only reason I didn't post about Snatch is because the OP was too vague about it.
"Steals moves to use" isn't a very good description logically.

And in any case, you control what Snatch steals, not the opponent. It's still a pretty dumb move to use as a mono-attack, because most types resist their own attacks, not to mention immunities.
If you snatch Scald from Vaporeon, you get nothing, Vaporeon heals 25%.
Snatch Thunderbolt from Manectric, and you're done for.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

The only reason I didn't post about Snatch is because the OP was too vague about it.
"Steals moves to use" isn't a very good description logically.

And in any case, you control what Snatch steals, not the opponent. It's still a pretty dumb move to use as a mono-attack, because most types resist their own attacks, not to mention immunities.
If you snatch Scald from Vaporeon, you get nothing, Vaporeon heals 25%.
Snatch Thunderbolt from Manectric, and you're done for.

but Manectric can't do anything to you either. That's the reason it's OP, imo. Until the PP runs out you can use Snatch any turn and the opponent doesn't get to move and (conditionally) takes some sort of attack. The best situation you can hope to be in is using a move the opponent is weak to and you're immune to, but if you're not immune you are taking chip damage for... nothing.

I'd assume Snatch works like normal, but for a broader array of moves, if you're confused about mechanics. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Snatch_(move)

 

[Asumi]

but Manectric can't do anything to you either. That's the reason it's OP, imo. Until the PP runs out you can use Snatch any turn and the opponent doesn't get to move and (conditionally) takes some sort of attack. The best situation you can hope to be in is using a move the opponent is weak to and you're immune to, but if you're not immune you are taking chip damage for... nothing.

Yeah I already read Snatch's mechanics.
It's probably an overpowered move outside a metagame that heals Suicune each time it's hit.
The biggest threat Snatch brings is against hyper offense, which is arguably not very good in a meta that allows everything to carry Eviolite. Things with Static or Flame Body have a chance to inflict status every time you use a move.

And Snatch is still really vague in the OP, so it's pointless to really discuss it until we get clarifications.
What kind of moves does it steal?
It would either allow you to steal everything, or allow you to steal status moves that it normally can't (Acupressure, Curse, Protect, Helping Hand, Taunt).
It may even be removed, seeing as it doesn't really have a 'condition'.
Showdown description just says "Steals certain support moves to use itself".

We're using Showdown descriptions right?

How?

We followed a formula often seen in pokemon, the X(effect) Y(Condition) and Z(Addition)
An ability that uses XYZ is Water Absorb, here's the Showdown description for Water Absorb
This Pokemon heals 1/4 of its max HP when hit by Water moves; Water immunity.
So Water Absorb has an effect, healing 25% of your max HP. A condition, if you're hit by a water move. And an addition; Water immunity. In this metagame Water Absorbs heals 25% of your HP if you're hit by a move, regardless of typing. This is a metagame of extremes.

This doesn't mean every ability is changed, a lot of abilities are simply X(effect) without a condition, examples are Magic bounce, Magic guard, Levitate, Air balloon and Huge/Pure Power. If you have any questions or believe we made the wrong call, PM me and I'll talk to you about it - don't mention it in the thread. It'll simply be deleted for clogging and nothing changes!

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Chloe. has updated the OP for us! Make sure to say thanks to her! I'm still in the process of editing the affects of items, abilities and moves as there were some mistakes. Hopefully I'll get that over with soon, but I'm at school right now and going to celebrate yesterday's birthday!

Have an ever pleasent day!

 

[Cenamazing]

After looking at this metagame, I feel like speed is going to be much less important than people are making it out to be. Sure, there are powerful and fast attackers who can compleately destroy you like Excadrill, but in a metagame where everything can runderstand eviolite and so many powerful moves and attackers have priority, speed is easily remedied. And this is made most apparent by the advent of what has become one of the most broken items of all time in this meta: Quick Claw. Who needs speed when you always go first? And one of the best users of this move is the long-neglected Rhampardos.

Rampardos @ Quick Claw
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Head Smash

This thing is incredible. With the second highest attack stat in the game, this thing hits like a truck. It even has the chance to 2HKO max defense eviolite Multiscale dragonite.

252+ Atk Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Dragonite: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO

This thing is strong, fast, and possibly, even broken.

 

[lost heros]

After looking at this metagame, I feel like speed is going to be much less important than people are making it out to be. Sure, there are powerful and fast attackers who can compleately destroy you like Excadrill, but in a metagame where everything can runderstand eviolite and so many powerful moves and attackers have priority, speed is easily remedied. And this is made most apparent by the advent of what has become one of the most broken items of all time in this meta: Quick Claw. Who needs speed when you always go first? And one of the best users of this move is the long-neglected Rhampardos.

Rampardos @ Quick Claw
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Head Smash

This thing is incredible. With the second highest attack stat in the game, this thing hits like a truck. It even has the chance to 2HKO max defense eviolite Multiscale dragonite.

252+ Atk Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Dragonite: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO

This thing is strong, fast, and possibly, even broken.

Quick Claw has a chance to go first not a condition which means that Quick Claw Rampardos is just as bad as regular Rampardos.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

People need to get the idea that eviolite is going to make this hyper stallish out of their heads.

Remember this guy? Spamming V-create? Considered a wallbreaker with only okay attack but an overwhelming base power? Well look at a small selection of what we have now.

Dragon Rush: 200 bp, -- Accuracy, 30% Flinch Chance
Earthquake: 200 bp, 100% Accuracy
Surf: 180 bp, 100% Accuracy
Body Slam: 170 bp, -- Accuracy, 30% Paralysis Chance
Phantom Force: 180 bp, -- Accuracy (NB I did't realize this yesterday when I was posting)
Wake-Up Slap: 140 bp, 100% Accuracy, Wakes opponent
Flying Press: 160 bp, -- Accuracy, Dual Typed Hawlucha is important Just kidding this should always fail cuz Gravity
Venoshock: 140 bp, 100% Accuracy
Hurricane, 110 bp, -- Accuracy, 30% Confusion Chance
Thunder: 110 bp, -- Accuracy, 30% Paralysis Chance
Solar Beam: 120 bp, 100% Accuracy
Blizzard:
Knock Off: 97.5 bp, 100% Accuracy, Removes items
Assurance: 120 bp, 100% Accuracy
Sucker Punch: 80 bp, 100 % Accuracy, +1 Priority
Hex: 130 bp, 100% accuracy
Acrobatics: 110 bp, 100% Accuracy
Blizzard: 110 bp, -- Accuracy, 10% Freeze Chance

None of these moves have any drawbacks (except Phantom Force ig), are all accurate, are all powerful, and are all reliable. There are more moves you could add, I'm sure (Facade and Belch for two). But with our new choiced set up sweepers with absurdly powerful moves, I kind of fear for any defensive mon not named Dragonite.

EDIT: I didn't even mention the op offensive abilities in this post btw, but offense wins there too, mostly because of distribution. Multiscale, Heatproof, and Thick Fat are the really good defensive abilities that help mons keep up with the insane damage output things have, and good things with both them and recovery are like... Dragonite, an uber, and a mega who cant hold Eviolite. Whereas Download, Guts, Moxie, Mega Launcher, Sheer Force, and Tough Claws all have p good abusers. Honestly the only point where stall wins at all is in items, and Knock Off being buffed makes that not as significant as you'd think.

math

So every setup sweeper is now using a choice item over a life orb (screw mixed attackers). This is a (1.5/1.3)x boost, or 1.15384615.

Every defensive mon has 1.5x to both defenses.
1.15384615/1.5=.76923077 with just items being taken into account. So far defensive mons have the advantage

So when something uses Earthquake it gets double the power now, as it would almost certainly have been using Earthquake before (Pdon is banned, I can't think of any physical attackers that get Earthquake that use any other Ground move besides Marowak, and conveniently Bonemarang has the same bp as standard EQ.)

2x.76923077=1.53846154
A non-mega set-up sweeper is now doing about 1.5x more damage than it would have done before. Abilities change this, for instance Tough Claws or Sheer Force would push this farther. Multiscale wouldn't help because everything that gets it is Flying type anyway, but Heatproof and Thick Fat do help. Stallrein op.

What about with Dragon Rush? You aren't doubling damage here, because you were possibly using outrage before for your huge damage output.
200/120x.76923077= 1.28205129

About 1.3x more damage. Also flinch chance. Keep in mind that by using eviolite you lose passive healing, and the new choice items have no drawbacks.

Now Thunder/Blizzard over Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
110/90x.76923077=.94017094

A very slight drop in power... But not enough for me to care that much honestly.

I'm not really good at the maths so if I screwed up please tell me.
Also problems with this: I assumed base Life Orb. I ignored abilities and their effect on the metagame. Actually screw the lack of abilities I'll do a little of that below.

So back to the .76923077. (So to keep things clear, partially for myself at least, this is going to be calcing the effects of a choiced mon with given offensive ability v an eviolite mon with given defensive ability)
With Thick Fat or equivalent (x1/2): .38461538
With Filter or equivalent (x3/4): .57692308
With Tough Claws (x1.33): 1.02307692 (Note: Remember this calculation includes a choice item, so ZardX or Mega Metagross is still doing less than this. Actually this is only relevant to Barbaracle and Binacle. Why did I bother.)
With Sheer Force (x1.3): 1 (Isn't this nice. And much more relevant a calculation.)
With Sheer Force v Thick Fat: .5
With Sheer Force v Filter: .75 (lol i was lazy and didnt calc these last two)
With Technician or equivalent (x1.5): 1.15385616
With Technician v Thick Fat: .57692308
With Technician v Filter: .86538462

Using Sheer Force choiced Dragon Rush is just like using a standard Dragon Rush with better accuracy (and no flinch chance because Sheer Force). Good thing that's going to be so common.

Notably Miltank is the only non-mega with Thick Fat and non-rest recovery, Bronzong, the only mon with Heatproof has no recovery, and nothing with Filter or Solid Rock has recovery. If you want me to calc another defensive ability I forgot tell me.

And of course Dragonite is amazing.

What you should take away from all these numbers, imo is that there's not much of an inherent advantage for defensive mons before you consider the increase in base power of attacks (except for things with Thick Fat or Multiscale), and afterwards there's a clear offensive advantage. This is presuming no drastic changes like choice items being reworked.

really powerful wallbreakers

Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Coverage is for nerds
- Rain Dance (more power if real)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 685-807 (200.8 - 236.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Add rain for more fun)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 1027-1210 (301.1 - 354.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Find me a more powerful hit without boosts i dare you. no bp scrub rain doesn't count as a boost in the same way +2 counts as a boost.

Excadrill @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 717-844 (210.2 - 247.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Garchomp @ Choice Band / Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake

252+ Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 537-633 (157.4 - 185.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Garchomp Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 537-633 (157.4 - 185.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 570-672 (167.1 - 197%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Lucalu2015]

Ah been waiting for this :] Looking forward to play it seems quite interesting.
Looks like it will be either Stally or Ofenssive meta idk just hope it gets coded and playable soon

 

[NidoTheKing]

Okay, this is all from an outsider's point of view who doesn't have any experience with this OM, but it looks horribly overpowered.

Unlike Haxmons, which has a similar mindset of "if it can, it will," this metagame seems to buff almost everything and nerf almost nothing. So many moves have priority, power, accuracy, and effect buffs and so many abilities are boosted so high that I can't tell if this is a broken v broken kind of metagame or one that runs on "more powerful teambuilding wins." I could be totally wrong about this and everything works out because of how everything is set up, but I'm just pointing out that to an outsider, it looks like a mess and may need to be altered in some way.

Oh, as a quick present I also took liberty of crossing off other abilities that shouldn't apply to this metagame seeing that the only users are banned due to OU clauses (only 5, but hey every little counts). Also, I didn't see Arena Trap; is that already banned? If Magnet Pull is banned, then I'm pretty sure Arena Trap has to be banned as well.

Abilities (Updated)

Adaptability: All moves get a 1.33x increase in power
Aftermath: Foe loses 25% of max HP when your Pokemon faints.
Analytic: 1.3x boost to damage.
Anger Point: This Pokemon's Atk is boosted 12 stages when attacked (Banned)
Anticipation: On switch-in, this Pokemon shudders
Aroma Veil: No change
Aura Break: No change
Bad Dreams: Reduces a foe's HP by 12% every turn (Uber only)
Bulletproof: No change
Cheek Pouch: Restores HP every turn
Chlorophyll/Sand Rush/Swift Swim: 2x Speed regardless of the weather
Cursed Body: Has a 30% chance of disabling any move used by the opponent.
Cute Charm: Has a chance to infatuate opponent when attacked.
Dark Aura: Moves have 1.33x power. (Uber only)
Defeatist: 1/2 Atk and SpA
Defiant / Competitive: 2+ in their respective attacks when lowering a stat(Superpower would activate it, for example)
Delta Stream: No change (Uber only)
Download: Every turn your attack/special attack increases even further.
Early Bird: Statuses with timers end twice as quickly.
Effect Spore: May paralyze, poison, or cause sleep.
Fairy Aura: Moves have 1.33x power. (Uber only)
Filter/Solid Rock: This Pokemon receives 3/4 damage from attacks.
Flame Body: 33% chance to burn your opponent when attacked
Flower Gift: Pokemon has 1.5x Attack and Special Defense.
Flower Veil: This side can't have stats lowered or status inflicted by other Pokemon.
Gale Wings: All moves have +1 priority.
Gluttony: Encourages early use of held item
Gooey: Attacking this Pokemon lowers your speed by one stage
Grassy Pelt: Boosts defense by 1.5x.
Guts: 1.5x boost to attack, ignores Burns attack drop.
Harvest: Works on all items and you recover your item every turn.
Heatproof: Halves damage from attacks, halves burn damage.
Hustle: 1.5x boost to attack; Accuracy of all moves is 0.8x
Hydration: This Pokemon is cured of status at the end of the turn.
Ice Body: This Pokemon recovers 1/16 HP each turn, Immunity to Hail
Imposter: Transforms upon entering battle, and at the end of every turn (NB loses ability upon transformation.)
Intimidate: Lowers opponents attack on switch in and at end of turn. (max once per turn)
Iron Barbs/Rough Skin: Damages opponent for 1/8 HP every time they attack regardless of contact or not
Iron Fist: This Pokemon's moves have 1.2x power.
Justified: This Pokemon's Attack is raised by 1 stage after it is damaged.
Leaf Guard: This Pokemon cannot be statused and Rest will fail for it.
Liquid Ooze: No change
Magnet Pull: Prevents the opponent from choosing to switch. (Banned)
Marvel Scale: This Pokemon's defense is 1.5x.
Mega Launcher: All moves get a 1.5x boost to their damage
Moxie: You gain +1 attack when you attack your opponent
Multiscale: Damage taken from moves is halved.
Natural Cure: This Pokemon has its major status condition cured when switching in and out
Parental Bond: This Pokemon's moves hit twice. The second hit has its damage halved. (Uber only)
Pixilate/Refrigerate/Aerilate: This Pokemon's moves are turned to Fairy/Ice/Flying type and do 1.3x damage.
Plus/Minus: This Pokemon's attack have 1.5x power
Poison Heal: Heals 1/8 health each turn. You don't need to be poisoned anymore, immunity to poison.
Poison Touch: This Pokemon's moves have a 30% chance of poisoning.
Prankster: All moves have +1 priority.
Regenerator: This Pokemon regenerates 33% of its max HP when switching in and out (66% in total)
Sand Force: 33% power increase to all physical moves
Sand Veil: Evasion is 1.25x; immunity to sandstorm
Scrappy: No change
Sheer Force: 1.3x boost to damage; secondary effects are negated.
Solar Power: This Pokemon's SpAtk is 1.5x; loses 1/8 max HP per turn.
Soundproof: No change
Stench: All moves have 10% chance to flinch
Strong Jaw: All moves get a 1.5x boost to their damage
Sturdy: When hit with an attack, this Pokemon will survive with 1 HP. (Banned)
Technician: All moves get a 1.5x boost to their damage
Thick Fat: Damage taken from moves is halved
Tinted Lens: All moves do 2x damage.
Torrent/Overgrow/Blaze/Swarm: This Pokemon's Water/Grass/Fire/Bug type moves do 1.5x damage respectively.
Tough Claws: 1.3x boost to damage.
Unnerve: No change
Weak Armor: This Pokemon's Defense is lowered by one and its Speed is raised by one when attacked
Wonder Skin: All moves are 50% accurate versus this Pokemon
Wonder guard: No change
Zen Mode: This Pokemon is in Zen Mode.

 

[Matt Will]

NidoTheKing when everything gets a buff then potentially nothing gets a buff. For example if my move gets twice the base power and my opponent doubles their defence with eviolite then the damage remains the same. Just because everything is better does not mean it is all broken. It would require testing to see what got more of a buff that makes it better comparatively than other play styles. I feel that with all the back and forth over whether stall or offence is better it will at least bring some level of balance when we remove the more broken elements.

 

[sin(pi)]

I'm fairly sure stall is completely unviable as long as Dragonite is legal tbh, it does about 50% with +1 Adamant Banded Dragon Rush to 252/252+ Thick Fat Eviolite Snorlax. The only things which wall Dragon/Ground (Earthquake) are Skarmory and Togekiss, and technically Whimsicott but that's frail as hell soooo yeah. Dnite can also run a bulky Eviolite SubroostDD set which sets up on Unaware Clef (you take ~20% from Moonblast).

Also, Arena Trap doesn't need to be banned because Dugtrio is still bad. In theory it is broken though, so you could ban it as being a STag clone.

 

[Jerry311]

long story short d nite beats everything end of discussion lol
:P

 

[Cenamazing]

Well then, time to run Air Balloon Rotom-Fan in order to check all the ground types spamming Earthquake!



But seriously, here's another pokemon that appreciates the changes of this meta, but indirectly:

Set

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

While Rotom-W doesn't recieve any direct buffs from the conditions metagame, it does appreciate how powerful ground-types are here, as it's great at checking them. Considering how strong Excadrill's other abilities are in this meta, I doubt that anyone's going to be running mold breaker much anymore. So, Rotom-W makes for an amazing counter to it and anything else trying to spam their 200 BP Earthquake, proceeding to burn or use hydro pump against it. It can also take 180 BP surfs pretty well, and retaliate with a volt switch.

 

[readytolose]

So I did a bunch of calcs to try and find what the strongest unboosted attack is in this metagame.... I couldn't find anything stronger than
Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake. Literally the first attack listed in the OP. The runners up included Ursaring, Clawitzer, Diggersby, Zangoose, and Rampardos, with plenty more trailing behind.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 717-844 (210.2 - 247.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah, better pack something to take strong Ground, Normal, and Water moves. Trevenant and Gourgeist resists all of those types, but are both pretty mediocre defensively (Focus Sash Trevenant doesn't have the bulk to take anything really, Gourgeist still has nothing in the way of abilities). So I'm gonna list a few mons I think can potentially switch into these beasts. besides Dragonite and snorlax, lol.

Hide

Tangrowth @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Synthesis/Whatever

252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangrowth: 147-174 (36.3 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Regenerator being hugely buffed, Tangrowth is a super good pivot and a great switch in to Earthquake spammers, and can even handle some weaker Surf spammers too. It's also one of the best answers to Excadrill. It's a bit more vulnerable to Ursaring and Diggersby though, as they are capable of 2HKOing Tangrowth. Diggersby can also Knock Off its Eviolite. It still says a lot about Tangrowth's bulk, though, to be able to take a hit from these monsters. Ursaring's Choice Band Body Slam does about 75% to Tangrowth, but for comparison, that same attack is capable of sometimes 2HKOing max Defense Dragonite. I think that the Grass-types in this meta have some of the best defensive abilities, which helps them combat the Earthquakes.


Skarmory @ Eviolite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Brave Bird

Fun fact: without the Eviolite, you get 2HKO'd by Ursaring. Yup, we have reached a point where standard Skarmory is 2HKO'd by an unboosted physical Normal move, welcome to Conditions. But seriously, Skarmory is a good okay answer to most of the Ground types at the very least.

Really I don't know what's the point of being a wall if you aren't Dragonite though. Skarmory can't even use Sturdy so it's saddled with a useless ability.


Walrein @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Rest
- Surf
- Blizzard

Now we're talking. Walrein is another viable Thick Fat user. I actually think nearly every Thick Fat user is viable in this metagame cause it's just such a good ability. Walrein is a great answer to Surf Spammers and can be tailored to be either physically or specially defensive, and it can check a lot of things. It has an okay offensive presence too, cause it gets a lot of strong moves like Surf, Blizzard, Earthquake, Body Slam, etc. It can't do much in the way of team support besides Toxic things, and the only way it might win games is Curse + Avalanche. Having Scald could really help it beat certain targets, but it doesn't get that unfortunately. The reliance on Rest sucks too, but it's almost offset by the sheer bulk. Walrein is actually bulkier than Dragonite overall. It has a decent amount of weaknesses, but nothing as crippling as Dragonite's 4x Ice weakness.

Also, how does Cheek Pouch work in this?

 

[drampa's grandpa]

So I did a bunch of calcs to try and find what the strongest unboosted attack is in this metagame.... I couldn't find anything stronger than
Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake. Literally the first attack listed in the OP. The runners up included Ursaring, Clawitzer, Diggersby, Zangoose, and Rampardos, with plenty more trailing behind.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 717-844 (210.2 - 247.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

There are stronger things if you count weather, but Excadrill looks to be the strongest with NO outside influence or boosts. However boosts are really easy to get for some mons.

Moxie tho

Salamence

Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Iron Tail / filler

Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Tailwind
- Iron Tail / Roost / filler


252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 336-396 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Dragonite: 168-198 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Snorlax: 420-495 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Bronzong: 146-172 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

These calcs are for the scarf set, but I personally like the band set with Tailwind more. Snorlax, as you can see, can pretty reliably take a hit from the scarf set, but beware trying to wall it, as Moxie quickly takes Mence past the point where Lax's recovery can deal with it. Fortunately
0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 238-282 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Although Snorlax will be hit 3 times and has a chance to be KO'd before it can hit twice and KO back.
252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Snorlax: 105-124 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Snorlax: 158-186 (30.1 - 35.4%) -- 32.4% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Multiscale Snorlax: 210-248 (40 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The Band set has a very slight chance to 2HKO.

Salamence @ Eviolite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Dragon Dance / Tailwind
- Roost
- Refresh

This is a slightly bulkier version of the above set that has heavy, HEAVY competition from Dragonite. What does it do over Dnite? Refresh and Moxie. Refresh makes it not die to status, Moxie lets it boost faster and harder, while the eviolite makes it able to get more of those boosts, theoretically. There's a good chance it won't be able to stomach a lot of the powerful hits in this meta, but most Dragon Rush abusers are weak to its STAB anyway.

Krookodile

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Power-Up Punch

This works basically the same way as the above Salamence set, but with different STABs. Knock Off is very spammable, and things that want to wall it have to do so without Eviolite Power Up Punch is Swords Dance, but untauntable and doesn't hit ghosts Just hit the ghosts with knock off smh

Gyarados

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Payback
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall

I didn't really know what to do with this fella. If you have any suggestions, please suggest. Dragon Dance is for the speed, other then that you spam EQ. Possibly worth it for the ability to change to Mold Breaker, but Krook hits harder with Earthquake. Typing (aka immunity to EQ and Surf resist) is nice tho.

 

[SadisticMystic]

252 Atk Technician Smeargle (Snatched) Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 380-448 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The downside to throwing around hugely powerful attacks here is that you can have them stolen away from you, to the point that you get OHKO'd by a Smeargle.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Earlier on I saw some people talking about Fell Stinger, why not this instead?


Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile/Arm Thrust/Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Close Combat/Megahorn

Just keep the boosting til you reach an absurt attack stat, then spam EQ or CC. If anything, you can Knock Off eviolites and Trevenant's Sash. Bug is definetly not a needed move type, and Rock Blast hits Dnite. This is somewhat a Mega Kangas.

Also idk I was bored and I came up with this:


Emolga @ Idk, maybe Eviolite
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge/Twave/Nuzzle
- Attract
- Air Slash
- Roost

Good luck to move. Meet it's mother:


All Hail LGBT (Togekiss) @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Body Slam
- Air Slash
- Attract
- Roost

Sure, there are lots of mons with priority, but if you are slower, you'll have a lot of trouble. Attract+Para+60% flinch chance is a monster.

EDIT: Krookodile sounds really neat too:

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Beat Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

An early-game sweeper. Go in with it as a first-turn, use Beat Up to maximise your attack. Knock Off and Earthquake are really overpowered on this meta, Earthquake with 200 BP and STAB with +6 in attack will destroy everything that is in front of you that is not a flying-type. Knock Off may get the Sashes and Eviolites away. Krookodile does not care about Dnite either, murder that fat draggo with Stone Edge (Heck, maybe even Rock Slide kills it). Scarf+Jolly lets you with an amazing speed too.

 

[Schpoonman]

Choice items no longer lock, correct? Then that Heracross benefits more from a Scarf. It's already going to be hitting freakishly hard. Multi-hit moves hit 5 times, right?

 

[TheMantyke]

Really wonderfully neat stuff here. If people are really concerned about stall, Nightmare will probably do you wonders. Draining a forth of the other Pokemon's HP every turn sounds insane. The move's also got pretty decent distribution thanks to Pokemon XD, among them a Prankster user in Mega Banette (note: Pokemon with hidden abilities can't have 3rd-4th gen exclusive tutor moves so Murkrow, Sableye, etc can't have Prankster Nightmare).

It looks nice in a vacuum, but just about everything looks insane in a vacuum for this metagame. Interested to see where things land.

 

[lost heros]

Choice items no longer lock, correct? Then that Heracross benefits more from a Scarf. It's already going to be hitting freakishly hard. Multi-hit moves hit 5 times, right?

No multihit moves act as variables not conditions. They still vary normally.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Choice items no longer lock, correct? Then that Heracross benefits more from a Scarf. It's already going to be hitting freakishly hard. Multi-hit moves hit 5 times, right?

I chose Multi-Hitting because of Moxie. You will boost you attack every hit, so it's at the least (But not restricted to) a plus two in attack. And Rock Blast may come in handy with Dnite after you knock off the eviolite. But yeah, Scarf would be better

 

[I like donkeys]

I guess this goes without saying (and you already sorta covered it in the 'mechanic philosophy' section), but this meta seems horribly subjective and arbitrary when it comes to removing conditions from moves/abilities. For most abilities it's pretty clear how this meta affects them, like tough claws and sand rush, but some seem much blurrier than i'm comfortable with. For example, moxie and prankster/gale wings. I have no problem with whether giving priority to all moves will make a mon broken or not, it's the arbitrary nature of picking whats a condition and what's not is what bothers me. Like, it appears as though you define prankster as "gives priority to moves if they are status moves" rather than "gives priority to status moves" so you can change it to "gives priority to moves if they are status moves". How do you know prankster works by giving priority to all moves THEN eliminating all moves from the selection except status moves, rather than just, you know, giving priority to status moves? You follow?
Oh and don't get me started on moxie. Boosts attack after every hit? I mean first of all why not just make it so it boosts attack after every turn like download (download is also dumb but for sake of argument)? I get that if you attack the opponent and they faint, you get a boost, so remove the condition of having to faint the opposing mon and you get the moxie you currently have. But having to attack the opponent to get the boost could also be considered a condition, so you could draw the line there instead.
Also i think somebody covered this as well, but hurricane/thunder have multiple possible accuracies. Either 50%, 70% or 100%. Considering the fact that making these moves unmissable still blurs your definition of "condition" (much like your buddies moxie and prankster over there) when you DON'T factor in that possible 50% accuracy, imagine how troubling this is when you actually factor in that 50%. What objective reasoning did you use to justify making the two moves 100% rather than 50%? Or even better, deciding to change these moves at all? Obviously 100% accurate thundercanes are pretty fun and awesome, BUT WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAVE FUN, WE'RE HERE TO MAKE CONSISTENT RULES. If you wanted to fix this without removing the changes, you could add an additional rule where if a move has multiple possible conditions (ugh) then you choose the one that benefits the move the most.

And of course there's the dreaded regenerator *shudder* You have to be joking now right? Am I in the Powered Up! thread or something? I get that changing "recover 1/3 of HP when switching out" to "recover 1/3 of HP when switching out" is so damn vague so you added another scenario where regenerator could work that ALSO made sense flavour-wise. I mean yeah recovering HP when switching in and out makes sense flavour-wise, but that's not a condition. There's nothing preventing regenerator from recovering as you switch in, in the same way there's nothing preventing prankster from giving priority to all moves - those scenarios simply weren't a consideration into how the abilities operate. Compare this to, say, sand rush. The difference here is that THERE IS something preventing sand rush from doubling your speed when you're not in a sandstorm - the need for sandstorm. Remove the need for sandstorm and your speed will double regardless of sandstorm's existence. How can you argue the same thing for regenerator? Or moxie? Prankster? Download? Thick fat? Tinted lens? etc? (there are a lot)

Solution? Either revert these arbitrary nuisances back to the way they normally work, add new rules or redefine existing ones.

Sorry for boring you with wall of text lel, here's some cute puppy pics :>

:3

 

[lost heros]

I guess this goes without saying (and you already sorta covered it in the 'mechanic philosophy' section), but this meta seems horribly subjective and arbitrary when it comes to removing conditions from moves/abilities. For most abilities it's pretty clear how this meta affects them, like tough claws and sand rush, but some seem much blurrier than i'm comfortable with. For example, moxie and prankster/gale wings. I have no problem with whether giving priority to all moves will make a mon broken or not, it's the arbitrary nature of picking whats a condition and what's not is what bothers me. Like, it appears as though you define prankster as "gives priority to moves if they are status moves" rather than "gives priority to status moves" so you can change it to "gives priority to moves if they are status moves". How do you know prankster works by giving priority to all moves THEN eliminating all moves from the selection except status moves, rather than just, you know, giving priority to status moves? You follow?
Oh and don't get me started on moxie. Boosts attack after every hit? I mean first of all why not just make it so it boosts attack after every turn like download (download is also dumb but for sake of argument)? I get that if you attack the opponent and they faint, you get a boost, so remove the condition of having to faint the opposing mon and you get the moxie you currently have. But having to attack the opponent to get the boost could also be considered a condition, so you could draw the line there instead.
Also i think somebody covered this as well, but hurricane/thunder have multiple possible accuracies. Either 50%, 70% or 100%. Considering the fact that making these moves unmissable still blurs your definition of "condition" (much like your buddies moxie and prankster over there) when you DON'T factor in that possible 50% accuracy, imagine how troubling this is when you actually factor in that 50%. What objective reasoning did you use to justify making the two moves 100% rather than 50%? Or even better, deciding to change these moves at all? Obviously 100% accurate thundercanes are pretty fun and awesome, BUT WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAVE FUN, WE'RE HERE TO MAKE CONSISTENT RULES. If you wanted to fix this without removing the changes, you could add an additional rule where if a move has multiple possible conditions (ugh) then you choose the one that benefits the move the most.

And of course there's the dreaded regenerator *shudder* You have to be joking now right? Am I in the Powered Up! thread or something? I get that changing "recover 1/3 of HP when switching out" to "recover 1/3 of HP when switching out" is so damn vague so you added another scenario where regenerator could work that ALSO made sense flavour-wise. I mean yeah recovering HP when switching in and out makes sense flavour-wise, but that's not a condition. There's nothing preventing regenerator from recovering as you switch in, in the same way there's nothing preventing prankster from giving priority to all moves - those scenarios simply weren't a consideration into how the abilities operate. Compare this to, say, sand rush. The difference here is that THERE IS something preventing sand rush from doubling your speed when you're not in a sandstorm - the need for sandstorm. Remove the need for sandstorm and your speed will double regardless of sandstorm's existence. How can you argue the same thing for regenerator? Or moxie? Prankster? Download? Thick fat? Tinted lens? etc? (there are a lot)

Solution? Either revert these arbitrary nuisances back to the way they normally work, add new rules or redefine existing ones.

Quote from OP

This metagame follows the mindset that everything has a cost that it can now avoid, i.e. Pokemon can now get the boost from Choice Items without being locked in. For the majority of moves this is enough, it's simple and you should be able to figure it out yourself. However, a lot can be up for interpretation, so we need to expand.

Using this mindset a lot of abilities like Moxie, Regenerator and Natural cure would activate every turn, or at an undefined time. But this isn't right, it doesn't fit the metagame as it would be too subjective, so we have settled for it occurring at the second most reasonable condition.

For example, Regenerator wouldn't heal a Pokemon by 33% each turn, but it would heal when it switches. We settled for "out" being the condition in this case.

If you do have any questions about this changes, then please PM me (Grains of Salt) so I can either explain the reasoning or change it.

One note, Thunder and Hurricane act absolutely fine, while they do have 50% accuracy in the sun, in the rain they bypass the accuracy check anyways so it doesn't matter anyways.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Hey guys! Sorry for doing this again, but I'm swamped with working on Mix and Mega and school so I'm struggling with updating the OP! Fear not though, I will get to it - and when I am this thread will be unlocked again! If you still have any questions or believe I made any mistakes then let me know in PMs!

See you all later!