Project Core Analysis Workshop (Discussing Partners for Mega Sharpedo + Tank Chomp)

[Random Passerby]

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Specially Defensive Skarmory is a reliable check to Mega Diancie which heavily threaten this core. Even without investment in Def, Skarmory is still able to take on Mega Metagross, Breloom and physical Mega Altaria with its bulk and typing. In return, Gastrodon helps to take on Electrics and Victini which threaten Skarmory while Talonflame beats Volcarona and can revenge kill Mega Charizard-Y. Whirlwind allows Skarmory to phaze out dangerous sweepers such as Clefable and Reuniculus. Spikes is a nice option to wear down Talonflame switch-ins such as Slowbro, Heatran and Tyranitar.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

taking mega venusaur

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire

Talonflame + Gastrodon is a really solid defensive core, and Mega Venusaur is a good partner to round off their already-brilliant type synergy. Talonflame and Gastrodon struggles with Azumarill, Mega Diancie, random Focus Blast Keldeo, Landorus-T, Manaphy, Grass Knot Thundurus, and Grass Knot Mega Slowbro. Mega Venusaur offers an answer to the above, and also provides further utility in being able to hard counter Mega Altaria should it overwhelm Talonflame and have a Fire-type move to hit Ferrothorn harder, because Talonflame getting whittled by Iron Barbs is not a pretty sight. Spread is to outspeed Adamant Azumarill and take on Gengar and Alakazam better.

 

[bludz]

It's been pretty low activity this week so I'll allow anyone who's posted a partner nomination already to make another one.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

bludz i will never abandon youuuu ;)

way worse than gengar (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave / Heal Bell

Talonflame + Gastrodon obviously doesn't like setup sweepers in general, especially powerful ones such as Mega Gallade, Manaphy, and Crawdaunt which can easily break past both Pokemon due to their prowess at wallbreaking. Clefable offers an answer to such setup sweepers due to Unaware and also has Calm Mind to get leverage over special sweepers, particularly Manaphy which it counters, as well as select offensive threats such as Mega Diancie and Thundurus. Also provides a win condition somewhat and has Thunder Wave to surprise Talonflame and Mega Metagross.

 

[Fire-breather Richard]

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Sableye bounces back hazards for Talonflame and is able to check mono-attacking Mega Latias and cripple Mega Metagross with burns. Foul Play can be used to heavily damage Mega Charizard-X. Mixed bulk allows Sableye to take moderately powerful hits from both sides of the spectrum such as Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Starmie's moves not named Hydro Pump. Talonflame patches up the weakness to Fairies slightly and Gastrodon can opt to run Clear Smog if stat-uppers such as Mega Altaria is a huge concern (so that Toxic does not clash with Will-O-Wisp).

 

[PK Bash]

Ah crap, Gastro's finally getting some recognition and I nearly missed it.


Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

I'm kind of cheating(sorry) because I've basically just made Tyranitar mandatory, so this probably won't count but it's a good one to mention regardless because it's great. The core's biggest weakness understandably comes from powerful wallbreakers and set up sweepers but Exca in Sand outspeeds all without a Speed boosting move, which is... every one listed here, and just tears them all apart, except things like Mega Latias and Manaphy. It clears hazards for TFlame which is obviously important and eats Toxic which is also important. In addition, the two mons in the core work well on Sand teams regardless, with Gastro's immunity to Water (and weather) and TFlame's great utility and revenge killing / panic button capabilities in a pinch. Sand and especially Excadrill can really make the most of the defensive synergy these two offer. Basically, Sand is great for these guys and these guys are great for Sand.

I know this suggestion is a bit left-field because it's basically two in one - again, sorry about that, but as I've had decent success with these two in Sand I thought it worth a mention. If you want this deleted just say.

Also, congrats on your new badge Bludz! (I'll say it here so I don't keep spamming you on PS xD)

 

[Dgvhh]

For me, For Talonflame+ Gastrodon core, I find That there are 2 things that wreck this core: Dragonite, Garchomp (can phaze Gastrodon with Dragon Tail, and doesnt mind a brave bird from Talonflame due to rough skin. Also, Toxic Stall users like Chansey will kill Both Talon and Gastrodon. So to go well with Gastrodon and D nite and Garchomp, Maybe Pokemon Like Weavile for Life Orb Icicle Crash for Chomp and Dragonite, and Knock off for Chansey. However, they often switch to pokemon like Heatran or Ferrothorn, so With Talonflame Gastrodon (and maybe add Weavile) maybe add Conkeldurr (doesnt Mind getting burned from Lava Plume because of Guts) and Fire Punch kills Ferrothorn. However, you will need Defog or Rapid Spin. And Threats to Conkeldurr are Mega Gardevoir and Pokemon like Sylveon, etc. Even Talonflame. So, another good pokemon to the set can be Pokemon like Scizor (has access to roost and Defog and kills with Bullet Punch for Mega Voir) but Talonflame can ohko it with Flare Blitz, so Garchomp is another great addition. That should be 6 pokemon. Talonflame, Gastrodon, Weavile, Conkeldurr, Garchomp and Scizor (mega or not for either garchomp or scizor)

 

[bludz]

Hey, thanks for your contribution, but in this thread you don't build a whole team. I suggest you read the original post to get an idea of how the thread functions.

 

[bludz]

Ok new core for this week. This is a core I found while searching through the good cores thread and I think it is very cool.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Kind of a balanced premise with the idea of spreading status so Gengar can clean up later on. CM Clefable also enjoys some physical attackers burnt which lets it set up more easily. Here's a link to the good cores post

Discuss threats

 

[Vinc608]

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Heatran is a huge threat to this core. It walls Clefable and take easily Gengar s'Hex while immune to Will-O-Wisp. (para is annoying though)

Some calcs

Be wary of Hex boosted by paralysis :
148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 144-169 (37.4 - 43.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

148 SpA Gengar Hex (65 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 72-85 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 136-162 (51.7 - 61.5%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 97-115 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[p2]

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Talonflame can easily switch into Gengar and Clefable as long as Clefable doesn't hit Thunder Wave on the switch in and proceed to 2HKO Gengar while Gengar only does 25% or so with an unboosted Hex. Talonflame can Taunt Clefable and wear it down, preventing it from healing and chipping it down with Brave Bird.


800 posts hype

 

[Analytic]

Reserving Hoopa-U

 

[DarkNostalgia]

REKTREANT (Houndoom) @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt

Big threat to this core as it sets up all over Gengar as Hex does nothing and is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and OHKOes back with Dark Pulse. It can also set up all over Clefable as well due to Taunt stopping the use of Thunder Wave and +2 Fire Blast has a 20% chance to OHKO.

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 345-406 (87.5 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
148 SpA Gengar Hex (65 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 54-64 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 698-824 (242.3 - 286.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Dr Ciel]

Gothitelle, please.

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Trick
- Rest
- Psychic / Psyshock

Trick-Scarf Gothitelle is a huge threat to this core for two reasons. First, it easily out-speeds and OHKO's Gengar with Psychic or Psyshock. Gothitelle can Trick it's Choice Scarf to Clefable and proceed to set up on it with Calm Minds, essentially stalling it out.

 

[Vert]

uh i am pretty sure sharpen m-diancie isn't a relevant enough threat to consider posting in this thread.

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf | Mold Breaker
Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Earthquake | Iron Head | Rock Slide | Rapid Spin

scarf iron head gg

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 204-240 (77.5 - 91.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 284-336 (72 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Random Passerby]

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass

Both Gengar and Clefable cannot touch it due to its naturally high SpD. Sylveon also doesn't care about burns much and can 2HKO both mons with Hyper Voice, bypassing Gengar's Substitute (or OHKO Gengar with Psyshock).

 

[Analytic]

Messed up last post, sorry lol

Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Toxic Spikes

Gengar gets bopped by Draco Meteor, Clefable gets dealt with by Sludge Wave.

 

[CrazyBacon]

Mega Beedrill

Mega-Beedrill @ Beedrilite
Jolly (-SpAtk, +Spe)
Adaptability
Shiny: Who cares
252Atk, 252Spe, 4SpD
Protect
U-turn
Poison Jab
Knock Off

Knock Off destroys Gengar
252 Atk Mega Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 356-420 (135.3 - 159.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Poison Jab kills Clefable.
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 408-484 (103.5 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Can't switch in to anything though.

 

[-Ixtamacunxi-]

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Easily switches in on Clefable and beats the core using Flash Cannon. (needs rocks to guarantee the OHKO on Gengar though)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 273-322 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 390-462 (98.9 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

 

[SketchUp]

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

1. Switch in against Gengar
2. Dragon Dance
3. Good Game

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

1. Switch in against Clefable
2. Bullet Punch
3. Good Game

 

[Me and ur mom]

uh i am pretty sure sharpen m-diancie isn't a relevant enough threat to consider posting in this thread.

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf | Mold Breaker
Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Earthquake | Iron Head | Rock Slide | Rapid Spin

scarf iron head gg

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 204-240 (77.5 - 91.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 284-336 (72 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Scarf exca is relevant?

 

[Exeggutive]

Scarf exca is relevant?

Viable yea It's a good check for clef, altaria, adamant zard x. Regular LO gives this core work too.

Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe/ 6 HP
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Bisharp has STAB moves for Gengar+Clef and Lum Berry to get rid of status. A little shaky vs gengar but Gengar can't hurt it.

 

[Mega Slutbunny]

Interestingly, scarf Gengar threatens them both


Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Scarf lets Gengar win speed ties, while also fucking Clefable over if you for whatever reason you decide that you don't want to Sludge Wave

 

[Mega Slutbunny]

Gliscor please :]

I guess this is kind of reviving a set that no one uses anymore, but SpDef Gliscor is fantastic vs this core.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance / Taunt
- Roost

Basically SpDef Gliscor takes 2 Shadow Balls from Gengar, and Knocks it off. It also takes any hit from Clefable and can either Taunt it to stop it from recovering, or SD to break past it. This used to be a staple check to things like Mega-Sableye, and Ferrothorn because it acted as a great stallbreaker, but I guess the metagame has shifted. This set still beats these two though.

Just a minor nitpick, the set there is hex gengar, not Shadow Ball Gengar. Assuming Gliscor was already poisoned by his toxic orb, Gengar has a 40-ish percent chance to 2HKO

148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 180-213 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

It's a pretty shaky check, you might want to add protect to help stall out some recovery