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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project Counter That Pokemon! [Battle Time!]
- Thread starter Tressed
- Start date
- Status
Clefable
Latios
Latios
That's all the voting complete! Clefable will be the last mon on Team 1! Huge thanks to everyone who participated.
Now the important stuff, testing which team is better! ArchPhantom and bludz will be doing the honors of playing a best of three series in order to find out which team is best.
Team ArchPhantom
Replays will be posted here when they're done. Until then, feel free to discuss how you felt the project went, which team was stronger, and the like.
Now the important stuff, testing which team is better! ArchPhantom and bludz will be doing the honors of playing a best of three series in order to find out which team is best.
Team ArchPhantom
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
Bisharp @ Blackglasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 52 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Stored Power
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Spikes
- Play Rough
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
Bisharp @ Blackglasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 52 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Stored Power
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Spikes
- Play Rough
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
Team bludz
Remember, there are no alterations allowed before heading into the match.
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Draco Meteor
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Final Gambit
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Draco Meteor
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Final Gambit
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
Replays will be posted here when they're done. Until then, feel free to discuss how you felt the project went, which team was stronger, and the like.
bludz is going to have to play very carefully to avoid a Clefable sweep. All ArchPhantom really has to do is remove Victini, which shouldn't be too difficult to do with TankChomp...and Twave support from Klefki...and revenging support from Bisharp...and the fact that V-Create lowers speed.
Honestly, I would be beyond surprised if Arch loses. Sorry bludz. :[
Edit: Oh, Arch can't let Dragonite set up either if Multiscale is intact, but I don't see that being a huge nuisance.
Honestly, I would be beyond surprised if Arch loses. Sorry bludz. :[
Edit: Oh, Arch can't let Dragonite set up either if Multiscale is intact, but I don't see that being a huge nuisance.
I feel that Team Bludz is going to be very careful with their Victini seeing as Clef simply blows their team away without it. This is made even harder since Tank Chomp is present on the opposing team and Team Arch still has Bisharp for Pursuit support if Victini has KOed something.
Likewise, Arch Phantom's team is pretty slow outside of Gengar so he has to play in such a manner that the hits from Lando-I and Specs Keldeo doesn't affect his team too much (normally the response is to go to Mega Lati but this means a free switch-in to Mega Eye so it all boils down to 50-50 double switches). Team Bludz has the advantage if that is the case because Mega Eye can troll any hazard-setting attempt.
Likewise, Arch Phantom's team is pretty slow outside of Gengar so he has to play in such a manner that the hits from Lando-I and Specs Keldeo doesn't affect his team too much (normally the response is to go to Mega Lati but this means a free switch-in to Mega Eye so it all boils down to 50-50 double switches). Team Bludz has the advantage if that is the case because Mega Eye can troll any hazard-setting attempt.
Unlucky Desperado
Banned deucer.
Mega Sabelye is really important for bludz, but with Clefable putting so much pressure, it is very important for him to not lose Mega Sableye because otherwise Mega Latias can also sweep. If bludz can crit either Clef or Mega Latias he will be in a good position.
Don't forget Mega Latias needs 2 things gone: Mega Eye and Dragonite. DNite deals a lot of damage with Dragon Claw and can only be 2HKOed if Mega Latias is at +2.
Clef is so much easier to sweep with as it only fears Victini. A crit on Clef, however, could be game-changing as nothing on Team 1 can take Mega Sableye one on one.
p2
Banned deucer.
It's probably gonna be on smogtours
I guess since the battle's happening a bit later today I'll leave my thoughts here.
I think team 1 has the matchup advantage primarily because team 2 has very little for Clefable. Its best answer is Victini which is worn down by Rocky Chomp and can be trapped by Bisharp.
To be honest as soon as team 1 chose Gengar I knew they would be at a pretty big advantage since the only things that "counter" it are pretty damn passive. Dragalge is okay but Scarf Victini is pretty meh, although the team got a bit better after that. I really thought we should have picked a steel type for the last on team 2 but yeah.
I think this project came out pretty cool although it would've been better with more activity. Honestly I forgot to vote a lot of the time so I have no right to point any fingers on that one lol. I think potentially one issue with the format is that team 1 both gets the first and last pick which I see as a decent sized advantage.
Looking forward to playing Arch but I expect to lose in 2 games simply because Clefable is far too strong of a win condition for team 1
I think team 1 has the matchup advantage primarily because team 2 has very little for Clefable. Its best answer is Victini which is worn down by Rocky Chomp and can be trapped by Bisharp.
To be honest as soon as team 1 chose Gengar I knew they would be at a pretty big advantage since the only things that "counter" it are pretty damn passive. Dragalge is okay but Scarf Victini is pretty meh, although the team got a bit better after that. I really thought we should have picked a steel type for the last on team 2 but yeah.
I think this project came out pretty cool although it would've been better with more activity. Honestly I forgot to vote a lot of the time so I have no right to point any fingers on that one lol. I think potentially one issue with the format is that team 1 both gets the first and last pick which I see as a decent sized advantage.
Looking forward to playing Arch but I expect to lose in 2 games simply because Clefable is far too strong of a win condition for team 1
Potentially in the future, if and when we do this again, how about giving team 2 the ability to change one moveslot on one of their Pokemon after the final team 1 selection has been made? Since these teams are tailored so specifically to the opposing side and leave everything out of consideration, team 2 is sort of expected to account for every possible Pokemon with their 6th pick while team 1 can proceed to just pick whatever the team is weak to. I feel like this would slightly even it out- for example Extremespeed is useless on Dragonite and it could have been replaced with Iron Tail or another way to deal with Clefable.
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prolly shoulda posted before but we're playing now, its game 1 we're on smogtours
replay of g1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74730
Arch won, it was close I made that misplay near the end with Victini but I would've needed to hit a bunch of Hydros to win.
replay of g2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74739
crit on sableye was pretty big since after that I had very little for M-Lati. he outplayed me a bit more in this game though I think
ggs man
The matches were really fun because the level of counterplay was really precise. I mean we both knew each others' teams and spreads exactly so the 50 50s and stuff were much easier to think through without unknown variables
replay of g1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74730
Arch won, it was close I made that misplay near the end with Victini but I would've needed to hit a bunch of Hydros to win.
replay of g2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-74739
crit on sableye was pretty big since after that I had very little for M-Lati. he outplayed me a bit more in this game though I think
ggs man
The matches were really fun because the level of counterplay was really precise. I mean we both knew each others' teams and spreads exactly so the 50 50s and stuff were much easier to think through without unknown variables
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Wow, you both played really well.
Just that I have some questions to ask bludz (not criticizing, just wondering):
1) Game 1:
- Turn 24: Why do you switch Keldeo into Clefable instead of Victini? Clefable is in V-Create's KO range and it's not like Keldeo's Hydro Pump can KO from 92% either (Are you forcing it to go Softboiled?). If you switch Victini in, he will be forced to go to Chomp (or he risks losing his win condition) so you can just double switch to Keldeo or Lando afterwards.
- Turn 37: You switch Victini into Tank Chomp and go for Final Gambit. Why? Garchomp is in Hydro Pump KO range (an average roll is sufficient since Hydro does 66.7% minimum). This means if you go for Keldeo, you can force him to sac one of his Pokemon and still have Victini around in case you need something to sac for Clefable.
2) Game 2:
- Turn 7: Yes, that crit was huge but wouldn't it be better to keep Mega Eye around since it can still deter hazards? Also, it can Recover up on something like TankChomp ( a roll) or Mega Latias (who couldn't touch you). It is your best safety net against Mega Latias and this allows the dragon to pressure you a lot later on.
- Turn 18: You perform a double switch and got Dragalge face to face with Mega Latias. But why do you do that? Draco Meteor doesn't even OHKO a +1 / +1 Mega Latias. Also, by using Draco Meteor, you make yourself more of a set-up bait (are you fishing for a crit so that Victini or Keldeo can take it out). Would Keldeo not be a better switch-in since you can chip at it and burn it, and as it boost, Final Gambit to take it out? Or is it at too low health for that?
Just that I have some questions to ask bludz (not criticizing, just wondering):
1) Game 1:
- Turn 24: Why do you switch Keldeo into Clefable instead of Victini? Clefable is in V-Create's KO range and it's not like Keldeo's Hydro Pump can KO from 92% either (Are you forcing it to go Softboiled?). If you switch Victini in, he will be forced to go to Chomp (or he risks losing his win condition) so you can just double switch to Keldeo or Lando afterwards.
- Turn 37: You switch Victini into Tank Chomp and go for Final Gambit. Why? Garchomp is in Hydro Pump KO range (an average roll is sufficient since Hydro does 66.7% minimum). This means if you go for Keldeo, you can force him to sac one of his Pokemon and still have Victini around in case you need something to sac for Clefable.
2) Game 2:
- Turn 7: Yes, that crit was huge but wouldn't it be better to keep Mega Eye around since it can still deter hazards? Also, it can Recover up on something like TankChomp ( a roll) or Mega Latias (who couldn't touch you). It is your best safety net against Mega Latias and this allows the dragon to pressure you a lot later on.
- Turn 18: You perform a double switch and got Dragalge face to face with Mega Latias. But why do you do that? Draco Meteor doesn't even OHKO a +1 / +1 Mega Latias. Also, by using Draco Meteor, you make yourself more of a set-up bait (are you fishing for a crit so that Victini or Keldeo can take it out). Would Keldeo not be a better switch-in since you can chip at it and burn it, and as it boost, Final Gambit to take it out? Or is it at too low health for that?
I don't remember my thoughts on that turn 24. I just know that Victini was easily Pursuit trappable and I was afraid of potential doubles so that was probably my thought process.
Turn 37; I hadn't calculated Hydro Pump at that point and I didn't really want to risk it. I figured I could use Victini to take down something and then start clicking Hydro Pump. To be honest if he stayed in with Chomp the turn after (best play), I lost regardless because Sludge Wave + Sucker Punch knocked out Keldeo. But yeah I shoulda just clicked Hydro in retrospect
I probably should have saved Mega Sableye but I didn't really wanna sack a different pokemon to Gengar as well.
Without Mega Sableye I was banking on a crit to beat Latias. In retrospect yeah burning it was a better way to go. I did want to save Victini to Final Gambit Latias but I think it lost enough HP that it wouldn't KO.
Turn 37; I hadn't calculated Hydro Pump at that point and I didn't really want to risk it. I figured I could use Victini to take down something and then start clicking Hydro Pump. To be honest if he stayed in with Chomp the turn after (best play), I lost regardless because Sludge Wave + Sucker Punch knocked out Keldeo. But yeah I shoulda just clicked Hydro in retrospect
I probably should have saved Mega Sableye but I didn't really wanna sack a different pokemon to Gengar as well.
Without Mega Sableye I was banking on a crit to beat Latias. In retrospect yeah burning it was a better way to go. I did want to save Victini to Final Gambit Latias but I think it lost enough HP that it wouldn't KO.
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