Project Counter that Threat! 21st Week: Snover - Counters Submissions

gali · Sep 1, 2014

no head smash smh

Tirtouga @ Eviolite
Ability: Solid Rock
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

So yeah this thing can switch into any of Archen's attacks, being 3hkoed at worst. If SR is up on Archen's side, Scald is a guaranteed OHKO. If it's not, Knock off+Aqua Jet always 2HKOes. The worst case scenario for tirt is 2 high rolls on Knock Off and EQ which does ko, but that's like a .3% chance of happening.

Asterya · Sep 1, 2014

Koffing @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Def / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic Spikes

Okay i tested this one and it's really cool, it can switch into any of offensive archen's attacks and burn it then put down Toxic Spikes while restoring health with Pain Split. And when you're done with that, you can just thunderbolt and it's gg.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-158971472 Special thanks to Maomiraeniya for helping me to test !

The Quasar · Sep 1, 2014

Onix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
Evs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt / Dragon Tail / Roar

That's Sturdy + Berry Juice's set. It could catch an Archen's EQ, recover its HP and hits strong with Rock Blast. You could require another turn to finish it, it's depending on how many time Rock Blast strikes. Some calcs about:

180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Onix: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Onix Rock Blast (2 hits) vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-24 (69.5 - 104.3%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
236 Atk Onix Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 24-36 (104.3 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sorry, I haven't seen Knock Off, I thought it was "classic" offensive Archen with U-turn. Thanks to Tahu for fixing.

Xyldaz · Sep 1, 2014

Lileep @ Eviolite
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Ancient Power

Even if Lileep isn't used as much as last gen, it still is a really bulky pivot with reliable recovery, which means it can come multiple times throughout the match to counter pokes such as Archen and setup stealth rocks. Even after taking a knock off, Lileep still has 26/18/16 defenses which are some of the best mixed defenses in the tier without Eviolite. It can also 0HKO Archen if rocks are up, making its berry juice useless and preventing it from using it's most powerful attack, acrobatics.

180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Lileep: 7-9 (26.9 - 34.6%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Lileep: 9-12 (34.6 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Lileep: 5-7 (19.2 - 26.9%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO
180 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Lileep: 5-7 (19.2 - 26.9%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO

180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Lileep: 9-12 (34.6 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Lileep: 13-16 (50 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Lileep: 8-10 (30.7 - 38.4%) -- 78.6% chance to 3HKO

While :
0 SpA Lileep Ancient Power vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Archen: 14-20 (60.8 - 86.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

tcr · Sep 1, 2014

Elekid @ Air Balloon
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 12 Atk / 220 Def / 76 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Psychic
- Thief

Yagura · Sep 1, 2014

I shall inform you once again that this isn't a creativity thread, come up with solid counters that can work really well but that can still be used outside of beating the topic Pokémon.

tcr · Sep 1, 2014

Yagura said:
I shall inform you once again that this isn't a creativity thread, come up with solid counters that can work really well but that can still be used outside of beating the topic Pokémon.

Air balloon thief elekid is pretty legit bruh

cityfolk · Sep 1, 2014

Drilbur (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 116 Def / 76 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

This is a bulkier, slow Drilbur that can take any 2 hits from Archen (assuming it does not get the 6.3% chance high roll).

on the switch-in:

180 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9)
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)
180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 1.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6)

after Knock Off:

180 Atk Archen Knock Off vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Drilbur: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Drilbur: 10-13 (43.4 - 56.5%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(10, 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13)
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Drilbur: 12-15 (52.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15)
180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 36 HP / 116 Def Drilbur: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 91.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9)

...and Drilbur OHKO's back with Rock Slide:
236 Atk Mold Breaker Drilbur Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22)

Yagura · Sep 1, 2014

TCR said:
Air balloon thief elekid is pretty legit bruh

I don't want to make this great project a thread for arguing but the legibility of a set depends from a person to another so yeah if you really thought it's legit then why didn't you ask to get it added to the Elekid analyse when you gave it your QC check? And like I said in my previous post this is a project to help users who are new to LC to easily choose counters for some of the biggest threats in LC, and it's not my job to choose which counter is the best but it's the LC community's but if I find that a counter isn't legit I have the capability to abolish the votes and either restart it all over (which won't likely happen) or choose the set that is second as the winner set.

trash · Sep 1, 2014

Carvanha @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 36 Atk / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Crunch
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Filler

The amazing defensive trashy Carvanha! after it get hits it lives then use protect to get a +1 speed boost then outspeed and ohkos it.

180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 156 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Carvanha: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
---
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 156 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Carvanha: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

36 Atk Carvanha Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 24-30 (109 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ecna · Sep 1, 2014

reserving snubbull
edit: nvm Archen is r00d and a bully ;(

Anthiese · Sep 2, 2014

Ecna said:
reserving snubbull
edit: nvm Archen is r00d and a bully ;(

Stealing Snubbull from Ecna because legit whoopin dat featherbutt

Set name: Snubbull Trouble

Fussy (Snubbull) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Bulk Up / Thunder Wave
- Earthquake
- Close Combat

Okay so here's the scoop, Archen gets -1 Attack on the switchin. All this free weaksauce damage

-1 180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 7-10 (29.1 - 41.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
-1 180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 9-12 (37.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
-1 180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
-1 180 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 2-3 (8.3 - 12.5%) -- possible 8HKO

also this

-1 180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Literally worst case senario right here.

You can TWave with ease as you tank this knock off barely doing any damage to you. Meanwhile...

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 76 Def Archen: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

with Rocks

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 76 Def Archen: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Alternatively if you use Bulk Up

-1 180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 7-10 (29.1 - 41.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
-1 180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 9-12 (37.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
-1 180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

vs

+1 196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 76 Def Archen: 22-27 (95.6 - 117.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+1 196+ Atk Snubbull Close Combat vs. 76 HP / 76 Def Archen: 19-23 (82.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

This is looking like GG for Archen.

The Quasar · Sep 2, 2014

Jac, I could be wrong but I have just tried with Snubbull (before my Onix's mistake). I had the same calcs when Snubbull switch in. But if it's Archen to switch in, you have not Intimidate advantage.So:

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can save yourself only with a Stone Edge miss.

Anthiese · Sep 2, 2014

The Quasar said:
Jac, I could be wrong but I have just tried with Snubbull (before my Onix's mistake). I had the same calcs when Snubbull switch in. But if it's Archen to switch in, you have not Intimidate advantage.So:

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can save yourself only with a Stone Edge miss.

:(

I still stand by my claim to take this set down with my Fussy. Also why do your calcs have 0 Def? The set posted has 76 Def.

The Quasar · Sep 2, 2014

Jac said:
:(

I still stand by my claim to take this set down with my Fussy. Also why do your calcs have 0 Def? The set posted has 76 Def.

You are right, there are correct:

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 15-18 (68.1 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anthiese · Sep 2, 2014

The Quasar said:
You are right, there are correct:

196+ Atk Snubbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 15-18 (68.1 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Stone Edge vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So does this mean my set is a bust then?

I was thinking we got switch advantage and it was a 1v1 situation so this is why i chose that. If not i have other ringers i can call upon.

Lasagne · Sep 2, 2014

trash said:
Carvanha @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 36 Atk / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Filler
- Filler

The amazing defensive trashy Carvanha! after it get hits it lives then gets a +1 speed boost then outspeed and ohkos it.

180 Atk Archen Rock Slide vs. 156 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Carvanha: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
---
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 156 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Carvanha: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

36 Atk Carvanha Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 24-30 (109 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

js but you dont get speed boost on the turn you switch in, so you need protect on that set to beat archen

Dhaora · Sep 2, 2014

Shellder @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 116 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Razor Shell
- Ice Shard
- Rock Blast

Shellder comes in, doesn't get 2HKOed by Rock Slide, then OHKOes with Razor Shell.
This set still ohkos most things, and acts as a really good revenge killer, with 14 spe.
Alternatively, you could use the normal SS set with razor shell to ohko, but this set protects against item-less Archen's Acrobatics.

sparktrain · Sep 2, 2014

Curse Wooper not only sets up on Archen and beats it, but has reliable recovery as well.

lady killer (Wooper) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Attract / Earthquake

Worst case scenario, you come in on Knock Off, then Archen spams Earthquake (rock slide/acrobatics do less damage). Spam Recover until you can safely set up a Curse, then KO back with +1 Waterfall. Attract isn't necessary, but it totally destroys Female Archen (the victim was specifically listed as such) and buys extra setup opportunities. If you don't like destroying Female Archen, you can use Earthquake for alternate STAB or something.

calcs:
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Wooper: 11-13 (44 - 52%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 0 Atk Wooper Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Archen: 24-30 (109 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

proof it works
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-159531879

Yagura · Sep 4, 2014

Posting 8 hours earlier because I'll probably be be really busy tomorrow so here are the sets this week:

Porygon @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Tri Attack

This is the standard Porygon set, that deals with Archen very well. Porygon can switch into Knock Off (and all of Archen's other moves), then survive a Rock Slide (or Earthquake/Acrobatics, but they both do less damage) and OHKO Archen with a Download-boosted Ice Beam.

Replay to show that it works: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-158950062

Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald/Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

This is standard Staryu pretty much. It can switch into any of Archens moves after rocks, with Rock Slide dealing the most to Staryu, outspeeds it, and KOs with Scald. You can use Hydro but the miss chance is gross.

Replay: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc-158966160

Shellos (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 212 Def / 60 SpA / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Shellos can comfortably switch in (with rocks up) and wont lose his eviolite because of sticky hold. The special attack evs allow him to have a 75% chance to ko archen with scald, and if he doesn’t it doesn’t matter to much. Recover lets him shrug off the small damage he takes.

Calcs:
180 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Earthquake vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 48.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Tirtouga @ Eviolite
Ability: Solid Rock
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

So yeah this thing can switch into any of Archen's attacks, being 3hkoed at worst. If SR is up on Archen's side, Scald is a guaranteed OHKO. If it's not, Knock off+Aqua Jet always 2HKOes. The worst case scenario for tirt is 2 high rolls on Knock Off and EQ which does ko, but that's like a .3% chance of happening.