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Cracking the Sun Code!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AntiMetaGame, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Hello Smogon, I need your help! After posting a bunch of successful non weather teams, I decided to go back to what 5th Gen was all about: weather. However, I wanted a little something unexpected so I went for sun. If you were like me, you think sun sucks and is arguably the worst weather out of the four choices. Damn, I was so wrong! This team has taught me to play a lot smarter and think further then I usually have to. It told me to control the match - like you control the weather - in order to win. While I'm not a hardcore ladderer, this team has a 80%~ win streak and that's totally ok in my book. Alrighty, here's the team!

    Team Building Process
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    As is any sun team, Ninetails is a must. But wait, what else works? Well, I needed to get rid of Politoed and Ttar. So I dug out 2 pokes for the job. So far, I've had only good results. Say hello to Expert Belt Latios and trapper Dugtrio.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Alright, most people see sun with sun sweepers. Well guess what, I'm NOT going to abuse that. Because people use sweepers, they usually require a spinner. Since I hate spinners and spin blockers, and everything associated with spinning, I said to screw it and went for bulk over power. Due to 100% of sun sweepers being frail as fuck (and fire types in general) I just slapped on Specs Tran.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    To continue my bulk over power trend, I put in late game sweeper and tank Cresselia.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Since I was vunerable to speed boosting sweeping sweepers, I slapped on Venusaur as my utility counter, revenge killer, and sun abuser.


    In Depth Look

    [​IMG]
    Mozilla (Ninetales) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Drought
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 SDef / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Energy Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    Possible the most important thing on a sun team, SUN. I stole this set from some RMT who's name I forgot, but it works out just fine for me. Most people I see make Ninetails bulky and what not so he can stay around longer. Not me lol, I attack attack attack. If I see an opposing weather starter, I'll lead with Dugtrio or Latios. Generally, smart players DON'T lead with their weather starter, while dumb players DO. Sadly, I say "fuck it" either way and let my other two guys go in place of Ninetails against opposing weather. Generally, I try to keep this guy alive. He's my sacking material, and the one of the 2 status users on my team. If I come into contact with a choice user, Ninetails usually has to take the bullet. I've always had trouble with sets, but never keeping him alive. Energy Ball is complete shit in my opinion and usually never breaks 40% towards any poke that isn't Gastrodon or pert. Rotom-W and Politoed both laugh at me, but hey, this is Ninetails we're talking about. HP Ground is also shit since it does shit to Heatran, but once again, this is Ninetails after all.
    Other Options: Sometimes I want to use Safeguard or Power Swap (also from another RMT I saw). Safeguard is there so Cress can set up easily with no fear for status. I generally want more power (but not specs) since this guy plays multiple roles. HP Ice could be nice, but I prefer burning opposing dragon types.


    [​IMG]
    BLU Scout (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal
    Say hello to another sun staple. Despite Dugtrio's uses, I still think he's far too weak to actually do anything useful. He either dies trying to kill toed, or succeeds but is weakened at the sash. His ability to trap ttar, however, is great asset to the team. He's my main way of killing balloon tran, after ninetails dies will breaking the balloon. He also traps Blissey in an ok fashion, but in all honesty, I hate the proccess, its very hit or miss. Still Dugtrio is great against opposing sun teams. He removes all non Chlorophyll and scarf users.
    Other Options: Use Memento over Stealth Rock. I always forget to use SR unless my opponent gives me the opportunity, If I did that, Cress could have an easier time or I could give venu growth

    [​IMG]
    Fan O'War (Latios) (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    Latios is very special in this team. Though not bulky, he offers key resistances and immunities that I take any day. Like the Fan O'War something is MARKED FOR DEATH. Now you're saying, "Hey wait, that set is trapped 100% by ttar!". Well guess what, you're absolutely right! The point is to get trapped. That way, Dugtrio can come in and finish the job allowing me to win the weather war. If I'm playing someone smart who pivots with ttar, then its an invitation to let Latios spam Draco Meteor the old fashioned way. Either you kill Latios, and get killed yourself, or let Latios rein destruction on your team. Either way, I'm happy. Another good factor is that even at -2, HP Fire still OHKOs Scizor without the sun. HP Fire in the sun is always an OHKO on Ferrothorn. Psychic just tempts them more to stay in. On that note, Psychic is for Conkeldurr, who otherwise sweeps me. The trick is to keep the Expert Belt hidden until the right time. Once you unleash it, you opponent plays a bit more carefully. I'm glad I tried this set, it may be weak, but it taught me to predict (HP Fire on steel types anyone?) and utilize Latios.

    [​IMG]
    RU serious? (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Def / 144 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight
    Question. HOW THE FUCK IS CRESS RU? Now here's your question: "WHY IS YOUR SPREAD SO WEIRD?" Well first off, here's my question; Cress is easily the bulkiest non uber tank in the game. Why isn't she used more in the lower tiers? Do people not like to whore or something? Despite my strange spread, she tanks at an amazing rate and takes full advantage of the sun. 100 Spe EVs is to outrun Jolly Spe + Scizor, 12 HP hits the lefties number, and the rest was dumped into SpA because I didn't know where to put it. This set is pretty awesome and does wonders for late game sweeping. Got a fire type? HP fire the bastard. Want to sweep? Spam Psychic. Even with little HP investment, Cress tanks like a boss, and responds back like a boss. She's amazing, that's all I can say.
    Other Options: I'm a bit weak to nite so I'd like Ice Beam. I might try Latias, who can do the same role, but isn't as bulky.

    [​IMG]
    Flameshot (Heatran) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    This is a whole new meaning to pure power. The best part to tran is absorbing fire attacks. Give him 1 boost and he's on his way to doing 50%+ to every mon that isn't immune to fire. Don't have time for a boost? Use Overheat. I've seen tran do at least 87%+ to literally anything. Like Latios, he offers key resistances and immunities that I have to play around with. I love this set so much. Spam Flamethrower, 2HKO any Rotom-W, and have fun. I forget to use HP Ice, but its for nite, when he's asleep. Earth Power is there for some mindgames and whatnot if you're not comfortable spamming Flamethrower
    Other Options: Any other sets you guys know? I want to use Modest, but am unsure. I might rocks on him.

    [​IMG]
    Mah Weed (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 124 Atk / 132 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Earthquake
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    The ultimate utility counter, revenge killer and only "normal" sun abuser. With 5th Gen around, Sleep Powder puts any 1 poke out of business. This set has lot's of surprise to it. Spam Solarbeam, and use eq to kill tran. 124 Att EVs guarantees the OHKO on tran too. 252 Spe allows me to outspeed scarf Landorus, a BIG help if you ask me. Not much to say, spam SolarBeam, and surprise people like Expert Belt Latios to get surprise KOs
    Other Options: Can't say much, I like him the way he is. Using Growth would be nice. Dragonite likes to come in on Venu a lot, so I might go HP Ice.

    Pros
    A team that isn't too reliant on spinning!
    Not whorey on sun sweepers
    Gimmick sets that work
    HP Fire everywhere, too much if you ask me though (Scizor gets owned so easily now xD)

    Cons
    Gets owned hard by misses (Sleep Powder, I'm staring at you)
    A bit slow (Venu is exempt)
    Needs to remember to put up rocks


    Threats
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Blissey / Chansey
    Dugtrio is ok at beating Blissey, but Chansey is hell. At low HP, Reversal does about 65%ish and isn't enough for me.

    [​IMG]
    Latias
    No clear counter :(

    [​IMG]
    DD nite
    At +2 Venu still outspeeds, but I have to kill this guy BEFORE he gets boosts. Sometimes, they come in on Venu anyway, and DD as I Sleep Powder. After the Lum is gone, I sleep them again and hopefully tran can HP ice kill. I might try Ice Beam on Cress.

    [​IMG]
    Sawsbuck
    Unboosted he kills everything except cress who fails to kill with HP Fire. Boosted, kills everything.
  2. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    I finished (most) editing, please post!
  3. AB2

    AB2 is an absolute ape
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    413
    Hey cool team man. I think that alongside the threats that you mentioned, calm mind reuniclus poses an even larger threat than perhaps latios or latias would. I think that if you gave chansey a shot over latios, some your problems would be solved pretty easily. Chansey is a pretty excellent 'mon on teams with this kind of archetype as it allows you to win against some pretty huge threats such as heatran, latios / latias, and non chesto rest volcarona with relative ease. Generally, chansey tends to be an excellent compliment to cresselia as it destroys stuff like heatran or specs latios that cress may have trouble sponging. If you decide to give chansey a try, I would simply run a set of toxic / softboiled / seismic toss / wish. A good spread would be 4 hp / 252 def / 252 spdef with a bold or calm nature as this gives you the most stat points with eviolite. Although dual heal chansey may sound pretty strange, it is extremely useful in a lot of situations. You can pass pretty big wishes to your team mates as well as healing chansey up itself with softboiled.

    If reuniclus is giving you troubles, I encourage you to try out a skill swap + toxic set on cresselia. Although it is a pretty weird set, it will get the job done in preventing calm mind reuniclus from sweeping you if it happens to be the last 'mon on your opponent's team. An alternative spread on cresselia would be 220 hp / 216 def / 72 spa. A nice set would be skill swap / toxic / ice beam / moonlight. This completely solves your problems with dragonite as ice beam will completely destroy it. Unfortunately, you will not be able to lure in and ko scizor like you used to. Although I really do not think that this will be much of a issue as your team handles scizor, and tyranitar in most situations, perfectly well. I suppose if you decide to try out chansey and the cresselia sets, you will have enough pursuit bait to allow duggy to still trap ttar pretty efficiently as well.
  4. Smilodon

    Smilodon

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Why wouldn't you use Psyshock on Latios to annoy Chansey (even if it's only 2KO or 3KO) ? I think Conkeldur without boost is still OKO.
    I prefer Adamant on Dugtrio, what he has to annoy (Politoed, Tyranitar, Chansey) is always outspeed, and more easily killed.
    Maybe Sucker punch instead of Stealth rock, he often has other stuff to do than using them. It would hurt Alakazam (without substitute) or Lati@s who would came to revenge kill.

    A spinner would help, for Ninetales an Dugtrio, but hard to use one without changing all the team.

    For Heathran, a more bulky set (with SR) might help, but if you want to sweep with a choice item, couldn't you use Choice Scarf and Eruption (instead of overheat), for really insane damages with a better speed ?
  5. King John

    King John

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    You should use a Specs set on Ninetales, since it works well for non-leads:

    Ninetales @ Choice Specs
    4 HP/252 SP Atk/252 Speed
    Nature: Timid

    Trait: Drought

    Fire Blast
    Solar Beam
    Dark Pulse
    Hidden Power (Fighting)

    Try this set
  6. Jets

    Jets

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    379
    CB ttar comes in on solar beam and puts a huge dent + toed comes in on solar beam and OHKOs. crunch and hydro pump respectively.
  7. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Never liked Chansey :( I'll look into it. I like your Skill Swap idea. I always forgot about Reuniclus. Generally its Overheat + Meteor. I

    Without any boosts, Psyshock is doing little. I remember using Alakazam in the past, and he did about 30%. Latios will get statused and then outstalled from Softboiled/Wish.
    The way I play Duggy, he needs the sash. If I could use CB, I would.
    I forgot all about Eruption. I'll look into it.

    Not to be a dick, but that set is completely useless. Jets summarized it easily.

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