Cresselia [WIP]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Notelobo, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. Notelobo

    Notelobo

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    OK so this is my first contribution to this section but I've always found I'm fairly good at knowing things about pokemon and their various sets. But I'll probably screw up somewhere so bear with me =)

    ROUGH DRAFT!!!!! PLEASE GIVE ME TIME TO FINISH BEFORE RATING. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE

    [Overview]
    Base Stats
    (BOLD= notable stats)
    HP: 120
    Atk: 70
    Def: 120
    SpA: 75
    SpD: 130
    Spe: 85
    So you finally beat Pokemon Diamond, Pearl, or Platinum. Now you run to where you hear you can get the counterpart to Darkrai. Now if it is related to such a powerful pokemon you can only imagine what unholy power it must wield. But sadly cresselia is more an example of a newton's law then anything else. For each powerful game altering pokemon there is one that falls by the wayside. While the all-powerful king of darkness rocketed up to Uber's Cresselia fell in a Majora's Mask equivalent tier shattering fall all the way to RU. And as it was in Termina Cresselia has made a far felt and lasting impact on all the tiers it hit on its way down. Now Cresselia stands as one of the bulkiest pokemon in UU, and not one without options. Cresselia can not only stand there as an unbreakable tank to a myriad of attacks with its combination of great support moves in Moonlight, Duel Screens, Toxic and Thunder Wave, but it can also go on the offensive with a Calm Mind boosting set that exploits Cresselia's OK offensive move-pool. But unfortunately it is not all easy for Cresselia in UU. Powerful and prevalent Pokemon in the tier have super-effective stabs against it, most notably UU's resident Link and Tatle, Heracross and Chandelure. In addition the prevalence of U-turn limits Cresselia's use even more, with common users in Flygon, Darmanitan, Mienshao, Azelf, Mew, and many more. Powerful Dark type attackers that have recently come into use further hurt Cresselia, Honchcrow and Sharpdeo. In addition with Mew recently dropping to UU the place as the Bulky psychic type is up for grabs once more. But between its huge bulk, great support move-pool, and ability to tank most of the tier without a care in the world this falling moon has the ability to slam into your team and wipe it out with a smile on its face if your not prepared to stop it.


    [Set]

    name: Boosting Tank
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic/Psyshock
    move 3: Moonlight
    move 4: Ice Beam/Shadow Ball/Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Signal Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: [252Hp / 252 Def/ 4 SpA] or [252 Hp / 60 Def/ 196 SpA]

    [Set Comments]

    • Huge Natural Bulk
    • Resonable Special Attack after boost
    • Good Reliable recovery (Unless in hail)
    • Great survivability and ease of use
    • The EV's are as such to give you as much bulk as you can get with max def and hp, but the second spread guarantee's the OHKO at +1 of 4hp Heracross with still surviving +0 Megahorn.
    [Additional Comments]

    • Possible Life Orb
    • Can opt for one of the screens for team support
    • Thunderwave>Recovery
    Show Hide

    [Set Comments]
    This set uses Cresselia's huge natural bulk and reasonable SpA stat to boost up and attempt a sweep. The EV's are as such to give you as much bulk as you can get with max def and hp, but the second spread guarantee's the OHKO at +1 of 4hp Heracross with still surviving +0 Megahorn. This set plays pretty simply, swapping into an sort of physical attack that Cresselia can tank without flinching and proceed to try and set up. This set also functions well as a late game sweeper because any one team usually only packs one or two pokemon that can actually manage to threaten Cresselia's life.
    Moonlight is a given on this set and gives Cresselia much more staying power, although it is worthy to note that durring hail (Which the metagame may be seeing more of lately) you only regain 25% of your HP as opposed to 50%. The last slot is really just a coverage preference, all of them have arguments for them. Ice beam hits Zapdos, Gligar, Tornadus, and Roserade hard, Shadow Ball lets you hit Mew and Chandelure hard (Although the later of these two is not recommended for you to stay in on if your not packing +2 or +3), Energy Ball and Grass Knot are for Rypherior, Milotic, Swampert, and Kingdra, Signal Beam is for...... Sharpedo maybe? Probably not good to run this one move.
    [Additional Comments]
    This Cresselia set can opt to take off one of its coverage moves for Reflect or Light Screen for some utility use but it is not recommended unless you are having extreme trouble with one particular pokemon (Like +2 sucker punch from Bisharp or something silly). Charge Beam can theoretically be run over Calm Mind to provide the boosts and coverage but Cresselia misses the Special Defense boosts of Calm Mind. Thunder Wave can also be run over one of your attacking moves to allow Cresselia to severally hurt sweepers whom can set up on you with impunity, Swords Dance Heracross or the aforementioned random Bisharp or two, although hitting the first of those two will cause Guts to activate so be wary.
    Life Orb could be used over Leftovers for additional power ​
    [Set]
    name: Duel Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Moonlight/ Thunder Wave/ Toxic
    move 4: Psychic/ Lunar Dance / Thunder Wave/ Moonlight
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Bold/ Calm
    evs: [252Hp / 252 Def/ 4 SpD] or the defenses swapped

    [Set Comments]

    • Great support for your team
    • Both Screen's and possibly status to help your team
    • Can defend from either end of the spectrum depending on Ev set
    [Additional Comments]

    • Can choose to not run one of the screens in exchange for another move.
    Show Hide
    [Set Comments]
    Nothing better than a good old Duel Screens set. And if there is anyone who deserves to trademark the Duel Screens set it is Cresselia. With its massive Bulk, recovery, access to the exclusive Lunar Dance, and great status inducing moves it can support your team in a myriad of different ways. This set plays easily, you can either lead with it or keep it in reserve. Once you safely get it onto the field you use whichever screen your Ev set doesn't max out or whichever one your team specifically needs.

    The move-set is mostly a players choice. Reflect and Light Screen are given because they are the sets namesake. Moonlight lets you come in more than once and tank damage because you lack Leftovers recovery on this set. Thunder Wave is good for teams that need paralysis support and pairs well with Moonlight due to the overwhelming number of pokemon that fail to do more than 50% damage to Cresselia with either screen up or even without them, allowing you to paralyze them and moonlight off the damage. Toxic can be used to stop bulky waters from coming in without some pain and a much shorter lifespan, this is esspecially effective against Blastoise, who comes in on you to clear your side of hazards only to be smacked by toxic. Psychic lets you keep taunt users from ruining your day but does pitiful damage. Lunar Dance allows you to set up screens before using the equivalent of a Full Restore on your next switch in, allowing your weakened sweeper to come back with a vengeance.

    [Additional Comments]
    One of the screens in this set can be eschewed for any one of these coverage moves if your team doesn't have a need for it. If your team is rather defensive already and you fear no physical stab, then by all means replace Reflect with something more useful for your team.
    [Set]

    name: Grab Bag
    move 1: Thunder Wave/ Reflect/ Light Screen/ Toxic
    move 2: Ice Beam/Shadow Ball/Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Signal Beam/ Hp (Fighting)
    move 3: Moonlight/ Lunar Dance
    move 4: Thunder Wave/ Reflect/ Light Screen/ Toxic
    item: Leftovers/ Resist Berry (Tanga Berry, Kesiba Berry, Colbur Berry)
    nature: Bold/ Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 132 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    • Lets you pick and choose what you need for your team
    • Still has great bulk
    • Great surprise factor
    [Additional Comments]

    • Really just to show the versatility
    • Can fit any team with ease
    Show Hide

    [Set Comments]
    This set really is just what it is called, a grab bag of sorts. The Ev's and Nature allow you to have some bulk and defense in both sides of the spectrum. The way this set plays differ from move set to move set. And each move set should be different and molded to fit your specific team. This Cresselia really functions to fill that roll your team needs while still having huge bulk and reliability.

    The move set is really just whatever you need. Toxic is for bulky waters such as Blastoise, Swampert, Suicune, and Milotic. The attacking moves are covered above in the Calm Mind boosting set with the exception of Hp(Fighting), this move allows you to hit Bisharp, Sharpedo, and gets great neutral coverage. You can choose to run one or both screens on this set to give your team the support it needs. You can run any number of sets with these moves and combinations of them to make your own set.

    [Additional Comments]
    I know what your saying, "But Notelobo, if I wanted to make a set such as this I would just look at Cresselia's moveset and decide for myself.

    This was merely to show how versatile Cresselia is and how many rolls it can fit into.

    [Other Options]
    A Choice Specs set is viable on Cresselia for the surprise value of it but you are better off running a Calm Mind set if you want something to this effect. With Max SpA and HP investment Cresselia manages to grab some unexpected OHKO's with Specs attached so I suppose it could be used, but really? Why would you want to? Just do that with Mew! A Blaze Orb Psycoshift set is also viable but the lack of recovery from leftovers makes it rather difficult to use. But it could be used as a form of 90% accurate Will-o-Wisp, I guess....... but again you ask the simple why? Cresselia can use Sunny Day or Rain Dance to support your sun or rain team respectively, or to merely get rid of other players rain, sun, hail, or the rare sand.


    [Checks and Counters]
    Heracross and Chandelure. Plain and simple. These two out-speed Cresselia with ease and, other than calm mind variants, can OHKO or 2HKO without being KO'ed back. Bisharp is a great counter for Cresselia that don't carry Thunder Wave or HP(Fighting) and can boost up on it before killing it with sucker punch or even pursuit (It gets that right?). Toxic users also ruin Cresselia's day because they cause its normal strategy of staying in for multiple turns to become completely ineffectual. Cresselia is actually the reason why I carry Toxic on all of my teams. It stops it dead in its tracks, other than duel screen Lunar Dance sets.

    But what this all really boils down to is that the best way to counter Cresselia is to figure out what kind of set it is running. Each of its different sets have easy counters for them but these counters may fare badly against a different set. Its kinda like Mew, but a lot more harmless.

    The best Check for Cresselia I have found to date is Specially Defensive Roserade. It can tank any of its status moves with Natural Cure, set up spikes on it, use Toxic, put it to sleep, and Giga Drain restores a great amount of Hp due to Cresselia's huge bulk. Even a Calm Mind set at +1 fails to OHKO you with Psychic or Psyshock with the right investment before you hit hard back with sleep powder or Toxic.


  2. kokoloko

    kokoloko I fill the bag.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
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    please follow the standard formatting rules (bullet-point form skeleton before write-up) in order to make it easier for the quality control team to do our job.

    thanks.
  3. Notelobo

    Notelobo

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    Yes sir. I'll get right on that. I'm sorry but the way to set that up wasn't very clear in the Rules & Guidlines portion. Could you possibly give me a example to work off of. I'm better and learning through showing than reading anyways =) Please and thank you.


    EDIT: Nevermind I've got it figured out I'm pretty sure.

    Edit Again: OK I think that's right.....
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
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    Be sure to mention that hail really nerfs Moonlight, so consider pairing Cresselia up with Pokemon that use Sunny Day (or Rain Dance if only to remove the hail, as cress benefits from Sunny Day)
  5. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I think you might need a bit more experience before you start writing analyses.

    The first set I guess isn't terrible... You don't specify what move the second spread beats Heracross with. Since the Psychic attacks affect different stats and have different base power this is important! You also can't put two EV spreads on the same set. You put zero discussion into what the different coverage moves do, or why you would ever use any of them.

    The Dual Screen set is a bit messy too. Your description basically consists of "yay screens" "maybe don't run one of them if you want more moves". You're going to need to add a lot more than that. No discussion on the advantages of the other moves, or team support needed. No discussion of potentially running Speed to outrun a particular Taunting wall or anything.

    The Grab Bag set is a mess. You literally just looked up every move Cresselia can learn that might be vaguely useful and put it on a set. People go to Smogon to find out the best sets a Pokemon can run, not every single set.

    As for other options, Choice Specs and Calm Mind play completely differently, I don't see how they're at all comparable. The writing style is quite informal, and I really doubt you actually looked up what "KOs" the Specs set can use. You really do allude to the biggest problem with Cresselia: "Why not use Mew?" (Or Uxie, who has a better support movepool).

    Your counters section needs a lot of work. Heracross is a start, though it is weak to Psychic. You suggest that the best counter for Cresselia is something that takes super-effective damage from its STAB attack. A zero investment Psyshock is a guaranteed 2HKO on 252 / 120 / 136 Roserade. Meanwhile, once you determine there's no threat of status, any number of Dark types can come in for free. Bronzong can usually set up whatever it wants all over Cresselia, but he gets no mention. Sableye is also going to create a lot of problems, being able to priority Sub on any unboosted special attack and Taunt you to stop you from doing anything.

    Finally, saying "it gets that, right?" when it would have taken you maybe 4 seconds of work to find that out just illustrates the little work you've put into this...
  6. Notelobo

    Notelobo

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    All of these points are entirely justified.

    Sorry about all of this I was a bit rushed for time and I am going to edit it later. The full descriptions are in the "Hide" tags and were there for my original post. I will fix all of these problems as soon as possible. I just put this up as a rough draft of sorts. I will go back through and fix everything soon.

    Thank you for your patience! I really thought I had a day to myself to do this but things have come up that I need to attend too and this is all I had at the time that said things came up. I am going to edit it! Need not worry!
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