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Yes, this is because formes don't have their own learnset. I don't know if Quite Quiet has looked at this but I've tried tweaking the code myself anyway.
The tooltip will display the boosts because it doesn't know about Cross Evolution. (Compare when you play SSBM: the tooltips get all confused about the special moves.)
oh this was brought up in the OM room , assuming this is OU based:
Either ban cross-evolving into Ubers or ban cross evolving into your own line (ie Combusken -> Blaziken). The reason should be fairly obvious; it allows people to circumvent certain OU bans.
Also, as written, egg moves are legal to inherit from a cross evo. This is making Dnite a disgusting thing to evolve into. (It can currently pass on its egg move Espeed.)
firstly, i'm not sure if banning cross-evolving into Ubers is necessary. so far as I can tell, Inheritance is a similar metagame which allows you to acquire the abilities and movepools of Ubers despite being OU-based, so all that's different here are the stat boosts. Additionally, there's only 3 Ubers that can evolve to begin with (Aegislash, Blaziken, and Greninja - note that megas don't count), so if they're all broken it wouldn't be that big of a deal to determine that and ban them. Meanwhile, Aegislash's boosts are pretty lame, and while Blaziken and Greninja seem pretty solid, it also seems like this metagame has plenty of crazy shit to go around, so let's at least wait and see if those two are dominating the meta before pulling the trigger. (Also, egg moves seem like an odd thing to exclude, Dragonite ridiculousness aside)
Next, Shedinja. First off, I'm not even sure you can evolve into it - it seems to just show up in your party when Nincada evolves into Ninjask. It'd be nice if anyone had any further info on that.
Secondly, I'm not sold that evolving into it should be simply a -35 base HP. To put it simply, Shedinja is hard-coded to have 1 hit point. If you hack in another Pokemon with base 1 HP it won't be hit with this restriction and will likely end up with at least like 50 hit points, and if you hack in more base HP for Shedinja it will still have 1 hit point, period.
(Note: not 100% on that, ask a researcher, but i'm pretty solid). So the base 1 HP is merely a placeholder; rather than saying Nincada loses 30 base HP in the process of evolution, it would be more accurate to say Nincada loses the ability to go above 1 hit point in the process of evolution. Basically TlDr, evolving into shedinja forces you to have 1 hit point, so cross evolving into it should force the same restriction, especially since it seems like certain Pokemon could get way out of hand otherwise. (though even if that wasn't the case, this still seems like the logical course of action)
edit: so I was actually having some thoughts about Aegislash and I decided it's frankly not worth using in a lot of cases for a reason you might not expect. (losing 60 base Attack and getting a useless ability doesn't help either heh.)
for example, I was thinking about a stage 2 Pokemon that could be awesome with a massive buff in special defense, and what should I think of but Rhydon the rock solid don. And check it out:
Cross-Evo Aegislash
+1 HP
-60 Atk
+0 Def
+5 SpA
+101 SpD
+25 Spe
Rhydon
HP 106
Atk 70
Def 120
SpA 50
SpD 146
Spe 65
Seems pretty sweet, right? Well, the Attack drop sucks, but other than that this is a really sick defensive Pokemon. But then I thought about something else: is it possible that there's a better cross-evolution to make use of? Well, there is one, but it doesn't work for Stage 2s. And then, I had the most insane thought of my life...
Cross-Evo Chansey
+150 HP
+0 Atk
+0 Def
+20 SpA
+40 SpD
+20 Spe
Rhyhorn
HP 230 Atk 85
Def 95
SpA 50
SpD 70
Spe 45
first things first: is Rhyhorn bulkier? Well, it sort of depends on the spreads, but if they both roll with an arguably optimal mixed-defensive spread, you get:
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Rhydon: 242-289 (58.1 - 69.4%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rhydon: 122-146 (29.3 - 35%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyhorn: 330-393 (54.9 - 65.3%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Rhyhorn: 174-205 (28.9 - 34.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rhyhorn: 494-585 (82.1 - 97.3%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 265-315 (75 - 89.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyhorn: 330-393 (54.9 - 65.3%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Rhydon: 203-242 (57.5 - 68.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 265-315 (63.7 - 75.7%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyhorn: 330-393 (49.6 - 59.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhydon: 203-242 (48.7 - 58.1%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rhyhorn: 234-278 (38.9 - 46.2%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rhydon: 151-179 (42.7 - 50.7%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyhorn: 234-278 (35.2 - 41.8%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhydon: 151-179 (36.2 - 43%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyhorn: 159-187 (23.9 - 28.1%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhydon: 112-133 (26.9 - 31.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Rhydon: 242-289 (58.1 - 69.4%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rhydon: 122-146 (29.3 - 35%)
252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyhorn: 330-393 (54.9 - 65.3%)
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Rhyhorn: 174-205 (28.9 - 34.1%)
So basically, you're quite bulkier specially and a bit bulkier physically, which to be fair is what you'd expect from evolving into a wall like Chansey. What you might not expect is to be stronger physically, but thanks to Aegislash's attack drop upon evolving, your Rhyhorn has 15 more attack than your Rhydon would, as well as the same SpA if you're into that. (20 less Speed but I doubt either of these are trying to outspeed stuff regardless.)
Meanwhile, Chansey is contributing a fantastic ability and movepool for a wall - Natural Cure, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell and Thunder Wave, even Wish to make use of that 230 base HP Rhyhorn seems to have acquired. Aegislash gives a useless ability, albeit an interesting movepool. On the one hand, it gives you Head Smash (!!!!), though the sheer recoil isn't great for a wall, and Rhyhorn's Stone Edge is only about 20% less powerful. It also gives you King's Shield. With that said, such a fat wall really wants recovery and it really wants a stronger Earthquake as well as strong rock STAB that doesn't force suicide, so while Rhydon has its merits, it's going to have a very hard time competing with its pre-evolution. Look out for similar results with other Pokemon looking to cross-evolve into Aegislash.
Yes, this is because formes don't have their own learnset. I don't know if Quite Quiet has looked at this but I've tried tweaking the code myself anyway.
After a lot of requests and a discussion, We decided to:- Let you choose whether you want this meta to be Uber or OU
So how this works is, You simply post whether you want it to be OU or Uber, With a reason obviously
But a note to be said, If it becomes Uber, M-Gar will have to be banned!
After a lot of requests and a discussion, We decided to:- Let you choose whether you want this meta to be Uber or OU
So how this works is, You simply post whether you want it to be OU or Uber, With a reason obviously
But a note to be said, If it becomes Uber, M-Gar will have to be banned!
Gengarite will be banned if this becomes Ubers because we don't want stall to be 6-0ed. There are enough Pokémon that wreck stall, especially with the ridiculous amount of set-up sweepers (Vivillon or Butterfree x anything, Breloom x Munchlax, Gallade x Rhydon, Gallade x Dusclops; and if Ubers, then add Xerneas, Darkrai and Primal Groudon). The other Shadow Tag Pokémon are underpowered in this meta.
Also Ubers imo, it adds more variety to the meta, while nothing stands out as broken. In fact, some Ubers are straight outclassed (especially Greninja). New bulky additions (Tina, Lugia, Ho-Oh) are also appreciated.
Double post for bug report.
In my last battle, some of my Pokémon got MONSTRUOUS stats, much higher than normal.
Prove:
883HP. That's just not possible. Even though it's invested, it shouldn't get higher than 664HP. Something similar happened to my Milotic x Finneon you see on the screenshot. It suddenly gain ridiculous stats it did not have on previous battles.
EDIT: The replay http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-3698
After a lot of requests and a discussion, We decided to:- Let you choose whether you want this meta to be Uber or OU
So how this works is, You simply post whether you want it to be OU or Uber, With a reason obviously
But a note to be said, If it becomes Uber, M-Gar will have to be banned!
I'd rather see an Ubers version of Cross Evolution. I've liked metas that drag OU-and-below Pokemon up to compete with the Ubers -it's interesting stuff.
so i haven't actually played this meta yet (i'm not much of a teambuilder and lazy so there's that) but it seems like a bad idea to me.
I'm reminded of Megamons where Ubers are just flat-out better than the empowered Pokemon. I mean, the rhyhorn I just posted is cool and all, but is it worth using over Primal Groudon? Is 252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Taillow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 391-461 (121.8 - 143.6%) worth using over 252+ SpA Life Orb Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 339-399 (105.6 - 124.2%), which is faster, far bulkier, has better coverage, and can whip out a Geomancy? (Granted you can't have LO + Geomancy but still). And I'm really not sure what water-type can outclass the monster that is Primal Kyogre, what dragon can beat out Rayquaza or even Mega Salamence, and what normal-type puts Arceus-Normal to shame.
I'd rather keep ubers out at first and maybe drop a few that seem fine, then go from there. If it looks like Ubers would actually add variety (i.e. they would face real competition from their counterparts) then by all means but i'm not sold on that currently, just saying.
so i haven't actually played this meta yet (i'm not much of a teambuilder and lazy so there's that) but it seems like a bad idea to me.
I'm reminded of Megamons where Ubers are just flat-out better than the empowered Pokemon. I mean, the rhyhorn I just posted is cool and all, but is it worth using over Primal Groudon? Is 252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Taillow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 391-461 (121.8 - 143.6%) worth using over 252+ SpA Life Orb Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 339-399 (105.6 - 124.2%), which is faster, far bulkier, has better coverage, and can whip out a Geomancy? (Granted you can't have LO + Geomancy but still). And I'm really not sure what water-type can outclass the monster that is Primal Kyogre, what dragon can beat out Rayquaza or even Mega Salamence, and what normal-type puts Arceus-Normal to shame.
I'd rather keep ubers out at first and maybe drop a few that seem fine, then go from there. If it looks like Ubers would actually add variety (i.e. they would face real competition from their counterparts) then by all means but i'm not sold on that currently, just saying.
Idk about the rest and I understand your points, but I think pdon does have competition, at least offensive sets:
135/220/150/45/105/70 vs 100/180/160/150/90/90
Gallade (Rhydon) @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
Rhydon is stronger, bulkier and can hold an item.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
- Stone Edge / Fire Punch
Meanwhile, Primal Groudon has better defensive typing and a better ability, and it's faster.
Unfortunately due to main restarting I no longer have the link, so what I did was to switch from onValidateSet to validateSet; this allows me to call through to the validator's validateSet when a cross evolution isn't being used.
I also removed the mod, as it was breaking Transform, Imposter and Illusion. I moved the code to onBegin instead.
It looks like forme changes are still broken; High Jump Kick probably wouldn't have done crash damage if Ditto had survived, as it wouldn't have triggered the attempt to change forme.
This is actually a terrifying breaker when unprepared for, and it's more than fast enough to form half a decent voltturn core. Boomburst becomes your go to STAB. Thunderbolt is for pesky ghosts. Volt switch keeps early game momentum until you can break (even sweep, thanks to its base 138 speed) later. Hurricane is a generally annoying attack that can capitilize on lucky breaks from earlier in the match, or hit grass and fighting types harder. Water Pulse is your best option if you are really worried about ground types who resist boomburst. Choice of ability depends on team needs. Frisk can capitilize on its ability to potentially force switches and capitilize on the momentum of U-Turn. Infiltrator is always useful for bypassing substitutes.
Chansey (Shellder) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs and nature: vary. I generally use a specially oriented spread given Shellder's higher defense stat.
- Soft-Boiled
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Razor Shell
Your standard role compressor, except it is definitely better at doing so than Donphan. Its bulk and water typing enable it to come in several times through a match. Natural Cure is the only real option for ability, but its a great one for a sponge. Soft-Boiled is obligatory healing, while Razor Shell is a reasonable damage option with a chance to actually lower defense and endanger Pokemon you should not be fighting. A combination of Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock combined with previously mentioned bulk actually allows Shellder to reliably control hazards on both sides of the field.
Another special wallbreaker. This thing actually almost has special bulk on the level of the Chansey mons. Lucario evolution gives Flabebe the coveted Fairy/Steel Typing.Flash Cannon and Moonblast are your STABs. Aura Sphere provides excellent Fairy/Steel/Fighting coverage. If you go with Aura Sphere, Giga Drain is your only real beneficial coverage remaining, and comes with the benefit of providing healing, which is actually somewhat reliable coming off base 141 Special Attack.
A small note: I've noticed that even though physical offense has gained scary tools like evolving into Dnite for free Espeed and Multiscale, it is actually special that has been the more reliable source of damage. Although it could be very limited showings mmore than anything
While I'm at it, there's a potential issue in the first replay: Sneasel is stated to be banned for cross-evolution in the OP of this thread, yet my opponent here seems to be able to use Sneasel -> Aurorus just fine with no complications. As far as I can tell it wasn't unbanned while I wasn't looking, so it'd be nice if that could be fixed if possible
Sneasel is stated to be banned for cross-evolution in the OP of this thread, yet my opponent here seems to be able to use Sneasel -> Aurorus just fine with no complications.
It basically DOES get a secondary typing, Which is grass
Like how Mega-Aggron gets a secondary steel type, overcoming its rock typing and making it pure type
So basically if you evolve into bellossom, You will get a secondary grass typing
So, Grass-Grass... I get it :D. I think Bellossom is the only one who goes from 2 to 1 type upon evolving.
Also, Ubers would be good because a lot of evos will have Uber-like stats and good movepools with that, but OU Clauses because every man and his dog will be running Speed-Pass on at least 1 mon (Combusken, Blaziken, Scolipede, Ninjask).
So, Grass-Grass... I get it :D. I think Bellossom is the only one who goes from 2 to 1 type upon evolving.
Also, Ubers would be good because a lot of evos will have Uber-like stats and good movepools with that, but OU Clauses because every man and his dog will be running Speed-Pass on at least 1 mon (Combusken, Blaziken, Scolipede, Ninjask).
We can not have Uber banlist and OU clauses, not that I know of at least
And if everyone is going to us speed pass, then it is not going to be an OP strategy,
So I guess what ya want is.. unbanning some uber, but leaving the OU clauses
We can not have Uber banlist and OU clauses, not that I know of at least
And if everyone is going to us speed pass, then it is not going to be an OP strategy,
So I guess what ya want is.. unbanning some uber, but leaving the OU clauses
