Pokémon Decidueye

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Decidueye is a fan favorite and a pretty good pokemon, why do people act so surprised that he has discussion lol.

He's a bulky pivot that can challenge bulky water and grass types in addition to all of this lightning spam all around. he's a pretty good anti-lead pokemon and baton passer too. I don't see how this guy is RU lol.
I actually think it could end up in RU.

But as an RU Pokemon with an OU niche, I mean. It has some really nice traits but it's not something you can slap on a good amount of teams IMO. Say, somewhat like Tangrowth or Quagsire in ORAS until they became popular enough to jump to OU.
 
No surprise on the discussion having a lot of posts, like the guy 2 posts before said its a popular mon which is why even though Incineroar and Prim are just as good if not better they dont get talked about as much. I do think itll be fun to look at a lot of mons when tiers are figured out in the next couple months.
 
People wanna try as hard as they can to make certain Pokemon work, and Decidueye is just one of the couple right now. I still believe it's gonna have a profound impact on OU at some point in S/M.

I remember a time about a month after XY released when people thought Talonflame was hot garbage, even when they knew Gale Wings existed. Needless to say, people caught on to it's utility and started using it a lot more.

Our archer owl I believe just needs to find the golden set that'll blow things out of the water.
 
It's as if people doesn't know what the term "OU Viable" means. Not every mon has to make a huge splash in the OU meta in order to be discussion worthy. All that it's capable of doing has been mentioned a few times in this thread, a quick search through this thread will reveal all that it's capable of. It turns out that this mon is incredibly versatile in ways people didn't predict, and that makes it fun to discuss.
 
The issue Decidueye has is... what do you want it to do? It has so many useful moves and only three slots (because Spirit Shackle is non-negotiable) to work with...
 

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People wanna try as hard as they can to make certain Pokemon work, and Decidueye is just one of the couple right now. I still believe it's gonna have a profound impact on OU at some point in S/M.

I remember a time about a month after XY released when people thought Talonflame was hot garbage, even when they knew Gale Wings existed. Needless to say, people caught on to it's utility and started using it a lot more.

Our archer owl I believe just needs to find the golden set that'll blow things out of the water.
Or it could be like Trevenant, which was trash in the upper tiers and took forever for people to finally let it drop.

If you like a mon, let it fall to a tier that it will actually excel in. Unless it's broken.
 
I like it's versatility but it's stats are mediocre and the typing doesn't do too many favors for a relatively slow mon...no one is saying don't discuss it but it probably needs to be in UU or maybe even RU for it to really excel.
 
With its typing, access to reliable recovery, and functional special bulk, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Decidueye has some sort of use. It has defog, baton pass, SD and NP on top of that, as well as an amazing STAB in Spirit Shackle, so there's speculation on potential sets; with its balanced but overall low stats it's probably only good in one specific set, but the possibilities are there, and if they won't be good in OU, those sets may have a use in lower tiers where Decidueye is likely to end up. I think the variety of potential sets is a larger factor in the number of posts this thread has than "fan-favoritism."

It's early in the meta so people are going to discuss new pokemon that are probably not amazing. It's not helpful to shoot them down, you're contributing literally nothing to the thread or the subforum as a whole, and I don't see this sort of behavior in threads for other pokemon of questionable viability. Let people talk about new pokemon like holy shit.
 
I didn't shoot anyone down at all lol I've posted here myself not telling people not to post....dude asked why it has so many posts and I just said it being a fan favorite and people wanting it to work is a large reason why.
 
No surprise on the discussion having a lot of posts, like the guy 2 posts before said its a popular mon which is why even though Incineroar and Prim are just as good if not better they dont get talked about as much. I do think itll be fun to look at a lot of mons when tiers are figured out in the next couple months.
Incineroar's not worthwile to use in OU without Intimidate released, so it's not getting much discussion because of that. Primarina only really has one or two sets it can run well and it's mostly overshadowed by Tapu Fini. Decidueye's got a wide movepool, actual utility options and at least 3 viable sets and the potential for many other variations. Not gonna deny that it's also popular because people like it most aesthetically, but it's actually more competitively viable than the other starters, at least for now (Intimidate Incineroar's gonna be really good though imo once it does get released).

And the last 15 posts have been just arguing about it's viability when Incineroar's and Primarina's viability are pretty clear lol.
 
Incineroar's not worthwile to use in OU without Intimidate released, so it's not getting much discussion because of that. Primarina only really has one or two sets it can run well and it's mostly overshadowed by Tapu Fini. Decidueye's got a wide movepool, actual utility options and at least 3 viable sets and the potential for many other variations. Not gonna deny that it's also popular because people like it most aesthetically, but it's actually more competitively viable than the other starters, at least for now (Intimidate Incineroar's gonna be really good though imo once it does get released).

And the last 15 posts have been just arguing about it's viability when Incineroar's and Primarina's viability are pretty clear lol.
I really disagree about the other 2 starters when HA comes out when it pertains to their viability in comparison to Decidueye (I think they're all relatively close). Think they all have potential to put in some work in UU.
 
I think between Low Sweep and a Colbur Berry, Decidueye could act as a great Bisharp, Tyranitar and Weavile lure. Swords Dance, STABs and Low Sweep, EVs would need mostly HP and then a mix of Atk, Def and Spe. This lure would be particularly well paired with a Lati or Mew as your Defog user since you can pretty effectively lure and eliminate these Pursuit trappers.
 
The thing that I think drives the Decidueye discussion is the fact that even if its overall viability isn't tied to it doing one particular role. Say what you want about things like Primarina, some of the Tapus, Alolan Marowak, or even some UB's like Pheromosa, but we already have an overall good idea about what a lot of these mons do. Decidueye's traits don't make it a mon that would manage A or even B tier viability in any one role perhaps, but it could have such a variety of equally viable options that the flexibility within a niche could make him a considerable option. At the risk of a perhaps misplaced comparison, it reminds me a bit of what kind of things went on with Garchomp during Gen 6 (I DO NOT claim that Decidueye is anywhere near that level of "OU staple" no matter what we find with this right now), where different sets rose and fell in viability with the meta to keep him where he was: Tank Chomp, Scarfchomp, SD + Lum sets, things like that kept seeing their little time in the limelight (some longer than others for sure) depending on which was best suited to the meta. If Decidueye turns out to have 5 sets in the SuMo meta, with at least one maintaining something like a B- viability regardless of where the meta development goes, I personally think that's a well-designed mon in that he can adapt to trends without outright suffering for it (even if he doesn't go particularly high), compared to things like Kabutops and Kingdra in Gen 6, whose viability could jump around depending on how viable the rain playstyle was and were over all linear in their options.

No one is claiming Decidueye is going to shake the game up, but he's a mon that is showing surprising potential on a workhorse level with a lot of ways to play him that all have comparable merit. It definitely lends itself well to discussion of the mon.

Another facotr I think is that the metagame is still so new, which not only contributes to discussion (partly on new toy syndrome of course) for Decidueye, but the meta hasn't developed too many trends yet (unless you count "Pheromosa breaks you in half" as a trend), so it's harder to zero in on "this is what a team needs to prepare for, what does Decidueye offer to my cores?". Say Sand were to pick up once all the quickbans and early suspects settle. Decidueye performs well against teams like that, so people would home in on discussing what traits make him strong against Sand and what cores benefit from those traits of his. There's not as much of a focused meta yet, so everyone's trying everything to see what can work, and Decidueye just so happens to have a lot of "things" to try even though he'll probably end up with a relatively concise kit of niches and sets in the OU meta once we have a more defined OU meta.
 
The thing is you can claim Decidueye is versatile, but it isn't really in OU, because nearly everything it does is done better by something else. Every single offensive set is just terrible in OU. So the only real set is a defensive defog set that is also a spin blocker. Such a set faces huge competition from Dhelmise though. The advantage Decidueye has is access to Roost. Whether you want Rapid Spin or Defog depends on the make up of your team. Dhelmise can hit much harder though, and is much more physically bulky which is important when the main spinner it will be meant to be stopping is Excadrill.

I feel like the starters are always Pokemon people want to be viable, and let that cloud their view, more in hope than actual practicality. I have seen a few Decidueye, but I've not seen one do anything yet, as it's always just too slow and not a factor. I feel like it's because people are using sets that are simply not viable in OU, ie. offensive sets. Stuff like Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are just never going to work in OU. It's too slow, doesn't even hit that hard, and takes away the main utiltity reason to use Decidueye, ie. access to Defog and as a spin blocker.
 
Defog and Spinblocking together is still something weird to get around. But, hey it will okay. King(?) of UU, at the very least.
 
The issue Decidueye has is... what do you want it to do? It has so many useful moves and only three slots (because Spirit Shackle is non-negotiable) to work with...
Well what DO you want to do?
Or it could be like Trevenant, which was trash in the upper tiers and took forever for people to finally let it drop.

If you like a mon, let it fall to a tier that it will actually excel in. Unless it's broken.
You can also be stubborn and use it anyway. Here I am using fucking Silvally and I'm still a-okay, not particularly hard-climbing but making it work.

Its what I like/hate about OU. You can use out of tier but of course crushing reality sets in at some point that unless you one-trick or orient your team around that, it'll be hard to efficiently use.

What we have here is something with alot of potential that people want to figure out how to make it work. Decidueye wasn't the only Pokemon to go down this road, its just a matter of when/what works.
 
The issue Decidueye has is... what do you want it to do? It has so many useful moves and only three slots (because Spirit Shackle is non-negotiable) to work with...
Ideally, you'll want to use it to Defog, pass Subs or check certain threats your team's weak to like Keldeo or Excadrill. In more niche cases, you can use it to lure, trap and kill a particular Pokemon that your team struggles with, as Jaroda suggests with the Colbur Berry Low Sweep set to get rid of Bisharp and T-tar. Decidueye's not the best mon to build around usually since it will generally be occupying these support roles.

Offensively, it's mostly outclassed, but still decently effective at what it does and it could potentially find itself onto certain types of teams. Swords Dance Decidueye is something that you can build around, but you're generally better off with building around more threatening sweepers if you just want effectiveness out of your team.

As Terminate says above, what you want it to do for your team is the real question.
 
Ideally, you'll want to use it to Defog, pass Subs or check certain threats your team's weak to like Keldeo or Excadrill. In more niche cases, you can use it to lure, trap and kill a particular Pokemon that your team struggles with, as Jaroda suggests with the Colbur Berry Low Sweep set to get rid of Bisharp and T-tar. Decidueye's not the best mon to build around usually since it will generally be occupying these support roles.

Offensively, it's mostly outclassed, but still decently effective at what it does and it could potentially find itself onto certain types of teams. Swords Dance Decidueye is something that you can build around, but you're generally better off with building around more threatening sweepers if you just want effectiveness out of your team.

As Terminate says above, what you want it to do for your team is the real question.
Quick question, I was planning to run support on the thing. I have Adamant and Impish on both (Baton pass/defog egg moves). Trying to figure out what the best EV spread is.

The only thing I know is not to invest into speed as it's useless.
 
Quick question, I was planning to run support on the thing. I have Adamant and Impish on both (Baton pass/defog egg moves). Trying to figure out what the best EV spread is.

The only thing I know is not to invest into speed as it's useless.
On the Impish one, you can just run a straightforward 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD on it. It needs all that physical bulk if it wants to beat Excadrill, Buzzwole and stuff since it barely avoids 2HKOs from them.

Adamant probably won't be too useful defensively, so I'd run a Swords Dance set on it if you want to make it work.
Decidueye @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry / Colbur Berry / Decidium Z
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Spirit Shackle
- Low Sweep / Leaf Blade / Brave Bird / Roost

Lots of item slashes, I know, but I'm really not sure which is optimal yet and it's preference and team-dependent. 188 Spe should outspeed standard defensive Landorus-T, but it can run 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe as well to get a bit more bulk and still outpace some forms of Rotom-W, Suicune, Mega Blastoise, etc.
 
On the Impish one, you can just run a straightforward 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD on it. It needs all that physical bulk if it wants to beat Excadrill, Buzzwole and stuff since it barely avoids 2HKOs from them.

Adamant probably won't be too useful defensively, so I'd run a Swords Dance set on it if you want to make it work.
Decidueye @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry / Colbur Berry / Decidium Z
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Spirit Shackle
- Low Sweep / Leaf Blade / Brave Bird / Roost

Lots of item slashes, I know, but I'm really not sure which is optimal yet and it's preference and team-dependent. 188 Spe should outspeed standard defensive Landorus-T, but it can run 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe as well to get a bit more bulk and still outpace some forms of Rotom-W, Suicune, Mega Blastoise, etc.
I think a Lum Berry makes it a more all-purpose switch into Rotom-W and Keldeo, as it won't care at all about any move they run. In which case I think you definitely want Leaf Blade in the last slot with the second EV spread. However if you're going to run enough speed to outrun Lando-T, why not just go mixed and add HP Ice with the LO and Roost?
 
I think a Lum Berry makes it a more all-purpose switch into Rotom-W and Keldeo, as it won't care at all about any move they run. In which case I think you definitely want Leaf Blade in the last slot with the second EV spread. However if you're going to run enough speed to outrun Lando-T, why not just go mixed and add HP Ice with the LO and Roost?
HP Ice sacrifices too much coverage imo and it doesn't really have room to run Roost alongside it anyways since SD + Sucker Punch + STAB is necessary for it to function imo. LO Spirit Shackle and Leaf Blade will 2HKO Lando anyways after a Swords Dance and Sinister Arrow Raid nearly kills it if it wants to run Decidium Z. Mixed generally has too much constraints on coverage and bulk imo to function well outside of an HP Fire lure for Scizor.

+1 252+ Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 165-195 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 214-253 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 191-226 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0- SpA Life Orb Decidueye Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-Therian: 239-286 (62.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 328-387 (86 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I definitely agree with the Lum + Leaf Blade combo being good utility-wise though on both this set and Specially Defensive. Similarly, Colbur + Low Sweep works well too.
 
Well, I wouldn't encourage a -SpA nature if you were going to go mixed so I think that calc is a bit off. I guess I just meant if you intend to go against Lando-T and we don't have Long Reach in case of Rocky Helmet, as well as the Intimidate factor, I just figured mixed would best take advantage of that speed benchmark.

44+ SpA Life Orb Decidueye Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 166-198 (85.1 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Something like that. But I sort of agree that at this point its stretching yourself thin.

I think I agree with the notion that Decidueye is not an all-purpose mon were it to be OU, but its stats, movepool and typing make it so flexible that you can use the asset of unpredictability from a team building aspect to accomplish specific goals for the rest of your team. I think that's why I like the idea of the Colbur lure set so much. Currently at least, it preys on players expectations and Decidueye doesn't really have an "optimal" set, atm at least.
 
I would honestly recommend pairing it with tapu fini over running lum berry in general. They have great synergy and it frees up your item slot thanks to terrain preventing status.
 
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