NU Defend to Conquer! (Stallpunch, Peaked #124)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by AmbientAtmosphere, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. AmbientAtmosphere

    AmbientAtmosphere

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
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    A kind hullo again to all of my fellow pokemon battlers, and a warm thank you in advanced for taking the time to read this thread. Today I present to you a team that is made for the Never Used tier, and the title "Defend to Conquer" pretty much sums up the basic strategy and core of this team. Now, without further ado, I present my team!

    I was told I should mention, this isn't a true stall team, but rather a bulky one designed for a late game sweeping, after taking out certain threats.


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    Defend To Conquer!

    And now a peak at the team, but only a glance.
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    Now then, the team through a mind's play:

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    Rotom-S @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Discharge
    - Pain Split
    - Air Slash

    As predictable, underused, and constantly frowned upon for it's ability, Rotom-S is an absolutely valuable player to this team. And, viewing the predictable side of the spectrum, Rotom-S usually carries the Trick and Choice Scarf set, which is what most people would expect looking at the other bulky members of this team. But, as you can see, this is a defensive wall version of Rotom-S, which is well loved by it's fellow members. With it's Electric and Flying dual type, Rotom-S already shows signs of a pokemon with good resistances. The typing also provides for a powerful Dual STAB, that only a Ground and Rock dual type would want to switch into. Now, to explain the EVs a bit further inside. With 252 HP, and naturally bulky defenses, Rotom-S can already survive a few hits. Couple this with maximized defense, and you have one of the most useful defensive walls in the Never Used tier. Now, looking at this, it's typing goes well with these defenses. Electric/Flying gives it resistance to Water types, Grass types, and Bug types, which all seem to be popularly used in NU. Along with this, it is immune to Ground type attacks which would otherwise cripple this team. As well as this, when a Choice Scarfed, Max Attack, Jolly nature Sawk comes in and uses Stone Edge, it usually only does around 52%. This is a feat that most Flying types dare not attempt to boast, but Rotom-S shows no fear. As stated, Rock types wall this set, and Cradily doesn't take too much damage and can usually come back at Rotom-S with a two to three hit knock out. This is where Will-o-Wisp can come in handy. The aforementioned move of choice is a great way to maximize the total defense of the team, especially when used against the deadly Ground type Pokemon. This move, of course, is nullified and rendered useless by Toxic Spikes, unless the opposing Pokemon is a poison type, where it may come in handy (for they are usually bulkier). The next move on the set is Discharge, which is a wonderful way to counter Choice Scarf special Attackers that aren't poisoned already. Even so, this is a pretty great STAB move for Rotom-S, and is a good counter to Water types such as Samurott. As hinted at before, the chance of inflicting paralysis with discharge (30%) is an added perk against levitate and flying type Pokemon, including Weezing and Braviary. The other STAB attack is Air Slash. This is another great coverage attack, with a nice added effect; there is a 30% chance to make the pokemon flinch! This works well to counter grass types, which do well against this team, and works for the paraflinch strategy. Air Slash's base power is not too strong, but not even lower than par. It's accuracy falters, but plays rather well. The final move is Rotom-S main recovery move, Pain Split. This can work out well, being used on a bulkier opponent that Rotom-S can outspeed. A perk of Wifi clause is that this monster will appear first, almost screaming Volt Switch lead. And this pokemon, is just the start of a defensive entry hazard team.
    Calcs
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    252Atk Mold Breaker Sawk (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Rotom (Neutral): 52% - 62% (160 - 190 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Rotom (+Def): 21% - 25% (66 - 78 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.

    0SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Air Slash vs 0HP/0SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Sawk (Neutral): 74% - 87% (216 - 254 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    0SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Discharge vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Braviary (Neutral): 42% - 50% (170 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.


    252Atk Rhydon (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Levitate Rotom (+Def): 81% - 96% (248 - 294 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


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    Lapras (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Rest
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic

    This Lapras is pretty much the handyman of the team, being a sponge and mop in short intervals that benefit it most. It's ability Water Absorb helps to combat bulkier builds of Water Types, where it can use Toxic (Lest the spikes of poison be present) after taking a hit, and either stall the opposing Pokemon or switch out. The chosen set seems to be a timely one, and switching in Lapras to sit and take a hit is usually due to reluctance, even though this Pokemon has massive bulk. Lapras is actually rather good at conserving HP, even being able to take a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from a Zebstrika pretty well for a Water Type. With 248 Hit Points, Lapras has 463 (the odd number to combat Stealth Rock damage), which is incredibly high for a pokemon that isn't even of the Normal Type. Barking off max special defense, Lapras is brought to a total of 317, helped by the Calm Nature. The extra 8 defense adds to bulk, and puts it's defense at 198. This, coupled with typing, is a win and lose; a sword of glass that breaks on both ends. Water and Ice typing is not a bad one to provide for defenses, but also a terrible one, considering the amount of weaknesses. That is why Lapras doesn't like switching in to Pokemon with a diverse movepool, due to the fact that a Pokemon such as this is usually able to check Lapras with any of it's Super Effective moves, as long as they are physical. Besides all of the weaknesses, Lapras is still a total beast, and the definition of wall, being able to take Super Effective hits with little trouble. The item of choice is leftovers, so it is able to take a damaging hit, and recover above 50% of it's hitpoints. The first of the STAB attacking moves I've provided for Lapras is Surf. Though there is no Special Attack investment, a STAB Surf coming off of a Pokemon with 206 Special Attack, is not something to underestimate. Again I will say, this is a bulkier set, and isn't made for attacking. Keeping this in mind, you will still know that Lapras can knock out Rhydon in one hit, and Archeops as well. On Pokemon that aren't naturally bulky, and if the move is Super Effective, Lapras is usually able to at least knock out the foe in two hits. The next STAB move of choice is Ice Beam, which is just as respectable as Surf when used by Lapras. It gives my team a better way to combat Flying types and Grass types, so Cacturne can take a turn at swinging it's sword. Ice Beam and Surf are great coverage moves, if not all too predictable. The move that helps with the massive Special Defense and Hit Points build of this set it Toxic. This can be used to whittle down the foes defenses slowly at first, while firing off STAB attacks, and sponging hits with ease. Toxic will not work on Poison types, and neither will this Pokemon usually. The final move on the set is situational, it being Rest. Rest is good to remove the terribly crippling Toxic, and to recover all of it's Hit points in one move. This does leave the pokemon crippled, more so than toxic, in that it will be asleep for a few turns. The bulk of it is made to make this up though. Lapras and Rotom-S make a great defensive duo, and that again is only still the beginning.

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    Bastiodon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Magic Coat

    Where is this unconventional Pokemon to be found? I am highly surprised that this beast isn't used more often than Lickilicky. It has high base defenses, high hit points, and a big head. What more could you want.. In all seriousness, though, this guy compliments Rotom-S and Lapras as a wall to all, resisting a lot of types, and having Rotom-S, Lapras, or Garbodor to take hits it fails to resist. This is the common, predictable, and one of the least used leads in the Never Used tier. The problem is, as rare I say it may be, almost everyone knows of it's tactics. And, the main problem with the provided moveset is that it's terrible Taunt-bait, and you have to predict around this with Magic Coat. Without any investment already, Bastiodon already has 373 defense, which it can't make much use of due to it's weakness to the physical hitting types. This is why it was given investment in Special Defense, where most attacks that it resist will be in the group of Special Attacks. It is also given max Hit points, so that it's survival may last all the more longer. Bastiodon is no easy Pokemon to switch into, either, with the predicted moves of Iron Head or Stone Edge being on the normal set. The typing is Rock and Steel, which provides for massive defenses and a good deal of resistances, while making it all the more weaker to common types such as Water, Fighting, and Ground. However, all of these types are resisted by Rotom-S, making these two a good team to resist common types. Couple this with Lapras's full on defense against water, and you have a strong defensive bulk. Bastiodon even covers the Rock type weakness of the former two. An absolute beast, this guy is taken down to it's sturdy way too fast, being only able to set up rocks and such, and the perish. Now, on to the taunt bait of a moveset. The first move is Stealth Rock, which is an obvious play. However, getting entry hazards up is what this team is made to do. Stealth Rocks is an all important way to give my late game sweepers a chance to knock out opposing Pokemon who had already been wore down. The next move on the set is Protect, which is helpful for gaining a bit of Leftovers recovery, as well as scouting what the foe will do, and predicting around it. If protect is used too often in such a manner, though, the user of it will be set up on, if only being able to set up once. This is because of the next move, which is Roar. Roar is a delicious and greedy move, that is part of the overall strategy of this team. It is used to force the opponent to switch into something else, causing that other pokemon to rack up entry hazard damage. After taking entry hazard damage a few times, no Pokemon would be fit enough to switch out, and will be forced to try and knock out Bastiodon, or burn/paralyze it. The immunity to Toxic helps out a lot. The final move on this set is Magic Coat, which can act as a Counter-Taunt against the foe. It can also be a counter-hazard act, and counter-status act. Magic Coat is generally a good move to run, over attacking moves. Bastiodon is a great defensive threat, and a terrible Pokemon to run into.

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    Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Bullet Seed
    - Swords Dance/Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    And now time for the first sweeper of the team, though not quite for late game. This is Cacturne, a powerhouse that only a Steel type wants to ATTEMPT to wall. Boasting a total of 329 Attack points, Cacturne already poses a great threat. It's speed isnt impressive, so Sucker Punch has to make up for this, and in order to get the selected moves it needs the almost useless ability in Sand Veil. This was originally an offensive spikes set, but I found that it wasn't bulky enough to run Spikes itself, so it became part of the team's offensive side. Once able to set up a Substitute, and maybe even a Swords Dance, this is one Pokemon that seems as though it belongs in RU/LU due to it's massive attacking stat and great movepool. This Pokemon has a Dual typing of Grass and Dark, giving it pretty nice coverage, if not one of the best in the Never Used tier. It covers the Psychic types that do a number to any team in the Never Used tier, and in my personal opinion outclasses Shiftry greatly. The nature is Jolly, and Cacturne has max Speed, so that it can outspeed some Pokemon. Even after this, Cacturne only gets up to a total speed of 229, which isnt too impressive, but does allow it to outspeed other bulkier Pokemon. Now, on to the moveset. The first move is Substitute, which gives away the set. But it allows Cacturne to set up, which is all it needs to leave a dent in any opposing team. The set-up move is Swords Dance, which gives it's massive attack a plus two. Nothing wants to take a hit from this guy, after that. Swords Dance is one of the greatest set up moves in the game, and Cacturne is highly blessed to receive such a move. To provide a Dark Type move, I gave Cacturne the super powerful Sucker Punch, which gets priority when the foe is going to attack. This move works better when a substitute is set up, so when the foe tries to break it, you get a hard hit onto them first. Sucker Punch is very reliable when you are great at predicting. The last move, another STAB one, is surprisingly not Seed Bomb. It is, in fact, Bullet Seed. This helps break through Sturdy when the entry hazards are Rapid Spinned (spun?) away, and can also pass through substitutes. Albeit a little unorthodox, it works out pretty well when combating the right foe. Cacturne is a great threat, and a beautiful (and possibly the best) grass type in the Never Used tier.

    A great counter to the ominous Absol, who otherwise likes to eat my team up. This is also another way to take out opposing Cacturne/Shiftry, and, besides Kadabra, one of my only offenses against Steel Types.

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    Garbodor (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Stench
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Gunk Shot
    - Rock Blast
    - Spikes

    Garbodor is Garbodor is Garbodor is Garbodor.. An utterly tasty Pokemon, this one is another helper of the entry hazards. But, provided with the defensive typing of the usual bulk Poison type, it runs into the same weakness as Bastiodon; ground types punch it in the garbage and laugh at it's all too beautiful teeth. Psychics also do a number to this team, which is where Cacturne can come in handy. This Pokemon does come with resistance to the Fighting type Pokemon such as Sawk and Throh, and is a good couple with Lapras. Max defense helps it take at least one earthquake so it can set-up. This Pokemon can also absorb Toxic Spikes, which hurts.. pretty much only Cacturne and Lapras. But, hurtful poison would be to each of the list pokemon. Besides setting up entry hazards, Garbodor is pretty disposable as an attacker. The perk of this is it's ability, Stench. This gives a 10 percent chance for the opponent to flinch, which works quite well when trying to whittle the opposing team's health down for a late game sweep. Garbodor is more than a blessing to the Never Used tier, and can fit onto almost any team as a way to set up hazards. It was given Max Hit Points and max defense, with an Impish nature, to add even more bulk to the team. The four EVs go into Special Defense giving Garbodor 201 Special Defense, which works out well for itself. The first move on this set is Toxic Spikes, which is great to wear down the foe. Setting up two of these really hurts opposing teams, and a spinner that switches in on them gets poisoned themselves. Not a bad play at all. The next move of the set is Spikes. Though Cacturne can learn it, I find this girl much bulkier and more suited to set them up. Though, having both of the kinds of Spikes on this set usually makes me have to decide which ones have to be set up first, and I also am forced, usually, to only set up on layer of on side, and two layers of the other side. Not too much of a problem, though, because both of these hurt almost any team that anyone can play in Never Used. The STAB move of choice is the powerful 120 base power move Sludge Bomb, which has a 30% chance to poison the foe. This can be used on Flying types or levitate users, so that they may not be exempt from taking toxic damage. This is also one of the only safe defenses against grass types on this team. (Without investment, Garbodor has 226 Attack already.) Rock Blast is super useful, as it allows Garbodor to break through the opponent's troublesome Substitutes, which is extremely helpful against Pokemon such as Haunter. It is also strong against bug type Pokemon, which commonly use substitute to set up with on of their popular set up moves. Garbodor is one wall that is very diverse. It's ability to set up hazards is great for this team. And now, as we approach the last pokemon, we see the scheme..

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    Kadabra (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Charge Beam

    The boom, and the bam, and the little Alakazam of Never Used. All of the Bulk, the Entry hazards, the roaring, the poison, the walling, the rest of the team's perks. It all led up to this late game sweeper. After the opposing team is whittled down a lot, Kadabra can one hit knock out just about everything in the Never Used tier. Magic Guard protects it from poison and burn damage, as well as any entry hazards the opponents team has set up. This Dream World ability is truly a blessing for Kadabra. The Focus Sash it is equipped with protects it from one Sucker Punch, or any other Priority move that will most likely knock out this utterly frail Pokemon. STAB Psychic will hit anything, bar Dark types and Psychic types, super hard. Shadow Ball is the powerful coverage used to hit Psychic types, and Hidden Power [Fighting] is used to hit the Dark types. I put Charge Beam as the last move, instead of Calm Mind or Substitute, because both of those will either render the Sash useless, or isn't necessary due to the walling and whittling of the other, bulkier fellows. As well as this, using it on a pokemon that's already been weakened, the possible gain in Special Attack is helpful. This is a great last Pokemon, and the team was actually built around Kadabra, so it can do a late game sweep.


    Some threats: Samurott, which destroys my team if Cacturne can't one shot it with Sucker Punch, and if it has used Swords Dance it can destroy Rotom-S, then carry one to maul my team.

    Cradily, not sure what I can do. Kadabra is the only thing that can really damage it, with Hidden Power [Fighting], and if it curses enough, my team has trouble without roar.

    When Lapras is gone, ground types with Edgequake rain on this team, if they aren't whittled enough to get knocked out by a Sucker Punch/Bullet Seed.

    Bulky water types, such as Wartortle, also do well against my team. Lapras can come in a toxic, and Cacturne can do a big with Bullet Seed. They are hard to combat without hazards.

    All suggestions are welcome, and your love will be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read!


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  2. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 59 more til 1k
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Ok, first you may want to use paragraphs in your descriptions. The way they are now makes it harder for people to want to read through it (plus you need to work on your sentence structure a little more). You also mentioned Rhydon and Archeops, which are both RU Pokemon on the Smogon tier list (which is the site that this RMT is on). Finally, you failed to mention what problems your team have faced before, and what is the purpose of your team. Without that, my fellow raters and I are basically rating your team half-blind.

    I'm impressed at your attempt at making a stallish team, but there are a few problems that make it difficult for this team to be successful. First, you don't have a reliable physical walling core, which is extremely important for a stall team due to the prevalence of powerful physical attackers in the tier. Things like Banded Emboar, Braviary, Kangaskhan, and Pinsir, along with other strong physical and special attackers like Samurott, Gurdurr, Magmortar, and Exeggutor can all tear holes in your team. You wonder why Lickilicky is considered a better special wall than Bastiodon? It is because it has reliable recovery and no weaknesses to common special attackers. Except for Pain Split and Rest, your team lacks recovery (and neither of those two moves are reliable).

    If the purpose of your team is truly stall, you don't need more than a single offensive Pokemon, if any at all. All this does is weaken the defensive capabilities of your team. The way stall wins is with residual damage, not brute force.

    My first recommendation is to replace Cacturne with a physically defensive Tangela. It still packs a punch, and will let you handle physical attackers like Absol, Gurdurr, and Cinccino better. Replacing Lapras with Seadra or Alomomola will round out your physical defense core by giving you a way to tank hits from titans like Emboar and Braviary. Both have their advantages, with Seadra providing more offense and Alomomola providing Wish (and massive recoil to things like Braviary).

    Of course, you need a special wall as well. You can replace Kadabra with a Specially defensive Lickilicky. This gives you another Wish passer, as well as a Heal Bell user. You can also give it Dragon Tail for an additional phazing move.

    Finally, your team lacks a spinner and spinblocker, which is vital for a defensive team. A spinner lets you remove the residual damage that your team cannot afford to take. A spinblocker protects the hazards that are your main way of defeating your opponent. Rotom-S is the only Pokemon that can possibly be replaced for this role, but this is up to you. You have a few options for a spinner: Cryogonal, Armaldo, Torkoal, and maybe Tentacool/Sandshrew/Wartortle. Wartortle gets special mention in that it can also replace Lapras with this amazing utitily, but it lacks the physical defensive prowess that lets you take repeated abuse from the stronger attackers of the tier. A spinblocker is a little more difficult to fit in. Misdreavus and Frillish are the most defensive ones, with Drifblim being a bulky offensive Ghost. Misdreavus is a decent option that fulfills almost the exact same role that your Rotom-S does, but again, this is up to you. Normally I don't try to recommend replacing more than 3 members of a person's team, but I do hope that you understand that stall teams tend to have certain requirements. If this is actually a bulky offensive team, I would appreciate is you mention it as well.

    Good luck with your team! :)
  3. AmbientAtmosphere

    AmbientAtmosphere

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
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    WhiteDMist, as mentioned, the main goal of this team isn't necessarily to stall, as much as deal damage in bits enough to let Kadabra pick the rest of the pokemon off in the end. I will edit in threats, sure, and the like. As for sentence structure, I am really in no mood to do so right now >.> Maybe later, sorry if it doesnt meet standards.

    Comparing to some other pokemon you mentioned in higher tiers does help show how well this team can handle hits (Such as Stone Edge from Rhydon hitting Rotom-S, shows it's bulk as it can fare this well). But, it is a mistake on my part for attempting to talk about Pokemon not of this tier. I was just making an excuse.

    I have tried Lickilicky, but, even with Wish it doesn't like this team very much. I will test Seadra though, it sounds pretty interesting, as well as Wartortle.

    Thank you for the comments, I appreciate them ^__^
  4. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 59 more til 1k
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Ok, so you're going with a semi-stall team. Well then I can definitely say that Cincinno is a big threat to your team. It can hit a good portion of your team super-effectively, and it renders Focus Sash on your Kadabra useless. I still feel that you need a more reliable physical wall to handle this and other popular threats. Amoonguss or Vileplume can still do ddecent damage to your opponent (especially Vileplume) while still having the defenses to handle big threats to your team (namely Rock and Normal-types). If you still prefer Cacturne, then I'd instead recommend replacing lapras with a bulkier Water-type that has better utility, like Wartortle, Frillish or Alomomola. It's not like you are taking advantage of Lapras' ability to handle Gorebyss reliably with Thunderbolt after. Offensive Cryogonal is also a pain for your team to handle, especially if it manages to avoid Sucker Punch from Cacturne. It has Recover, and can easily handle Kadabra and break through most of your team. Frillish seems to be the best option for your team, easily handling offensive (and with some luck and prediction, even defensive variants) Cryogonal, as well as the other spinners of the tier. Plus as a bonus, it can possible tank a few hits from the likes of Emboar and Braviary if you predict well.

    Finally, if you insist on Cacturne, and you also really want to keep Bullet Seed, you may want to consider replacing either Swords Dance or Substitute with Drain Punch, which can only be used with Sand Veil. Otherwise, you still have an immense weakness to Absol, which is a bad thing for any NU team to have. I'd say Swords Dance is the mosst easily replaced, since kadabra is your main sweeper, so Cacturne should probably be the revenge killer and wallbreaker.

    If I think of anything else, I'll let you know later!
  5. AmbientAtmosphere

    AmbientAtmosphere

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
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    Actually, spinblocker Frillish does seem like a much better pokemon to opt for. I tried out Wartortle, and wasn't too impressed to be honest.

    As for Cacturne, I'm adding Drain Punch as a move to use over Swords Dance right away, because it has proven super helpful. I'll test Frillish a bit more before I finalize my decision, but, expect Lapras to be replaced here pretty quick.

    Just for a random comment, I had been trying Musharna > Kadabra, and this really isnt true. The power given up for the bulk doesn't usually work, due to the prevalence of Toxic.


    WhiteDMist, you have been most helpful with this team. My deepest thanks goes to you <3

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