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Deoxys-S

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Jukain, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Overview
    #######

    Deoxys-S is a Pokemon that excels at the specific roles it fills. After its ban last generation, it has come back to OU and made a splash. As a revenge killer, it takes advantage of an incredibly wide offensive movepool and stellar coverage, making it difficult to switch into for offensive and defensive teams alike, as well as provide support for its team with Stealth Rock. It is an incredible dual screens user, with its insane Speed ensuring that screens get up, which gives sweepers a layer of protection against opposing threats so that they can freely set up. The scariest part is that your opponent never knows exactly what it's going to do until it's too late.

    However, some factors have limited Deoxys-S's abilities this generation. Priority moves from the likes of Aegislash, Azumarill, Talonflame, (Mega) Scizor, and Mega Pinsir bypass Deoxys-S's excellent Speed, limiting its offensive capabilities. Additionally, Aegislash, the best Pokemon in the tier, threatens it immensely. Overall though, despite these deterrents, Deoxys-S's terrifying versatility and efficiency cement it as one of the best Pokemon in OU.

    Life Orb Attacker
    ########
    name: Life Orb Attacker
    move 1: Psycho Boost
    move 2: Low Kick / Superpower
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Knock Off
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 12 Atk / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive

    Moves
    ========

    This set fits the role of a revenge killer and frightening attacker with its excellent super effective coverage. Psycho Boost is the STAB move of choice, punishing switch-ins expecting a weaker attack or support move from some other variant of Deoxys-S. The rest of the moves outfit Deoxys-S with the necessary coverage it needs to devastate the opposition. Low Kick OHKOes Tyranitar and does enough damage to put pressure on Chansey, even KOing it after a Knock Off, in addition to allowing it to revenge kill threats such as Mega Gyarados. Superpower is an option if KOing Greninja is of particular importance, but this is situational, as Greninja will rarely actually be a Dark-type due to Protean. Ice Beam nails Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon, and is vital to revenge kill threats such as Latios, Dragonite, and Latias. Stealth Rock is generally preferred in the last slot because Deoxys-S forces a lot of switches, granting it numerous opportunities to set the hazard up and support its team. However, Knock Off is also a compelling option to cripple defensive answers to Deoxys-S, especially Chansey, and hit Aegislash for super effective damage. Hidden Power Fire is also an option, mainly to threaten incoming Mega Mawile, in addition to having a decent chance to OHKO Mega Scizor after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKOing Ferrothorn.

    Set Details
    ========

    The Attack EVs enable Deoxys-S to KO max HP Tyranitar with Low Kick or Superpower. The Speed EVs let it tie with opposing Deoxys-S; the lowest to go would be 236 EVs for Choice Scarf Garchomp, and at that point it's worth netting the Speed tie. The remaining EVs are almost maximize Special Attack, pumping up the power of Psycho Boost and Ice Beam to legitimately scary levels.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Deoxys-S is essentially a replacement for a Choice Scarf user, boasting higher Speed than many sweepers when they are at +1 Speed. Throughout the match, you will want to bring it in to revenge kill opposing threats. You can also devastate unprepared teams with its excellent coverage, wearing down checks with attacks from teammates. If you play well and preserve it, this Deoxys-S is one of the best late-game cleaners in existence. Finally, although it should generally be played as a mid-game revenge killer, you can lead with it and bluff the hazard setter, surprising foes that are focused on trying to prevent you from getting hazards up.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Deoxys-S is doesn't really need much support. However, you will generally want some type of entry hazards if Deoxys-S doesn't carry Stealth Rock—not for any particular threat, but just to wear down opposing threats because it forces many switches. Keeping entry hazards off of your side of the field is also helpful, as in conjunction with Life Orb, they can put Deoxys-S in the KO range of priority attacks. For this role, Excadrill with Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin makes an excellent partner, defeating most spinblockers while accomplishing the above tasks. In addition, note that this Deoxys-S isn't really fit for bulkier teams, as it offers basically nothing in the way of defensive synergy, so more offensive teams are the best fit for it.

    Dedicated Hazard Lead
    ########
    name: Dedicated Hazard Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Spikes
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Superpower / Magic Coat
    item: Rocky Helmet / Focus Sash
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Impish / Bold

    Moves
    ========

    Deoxys-S's flagship set from the past few generations aims to lead and set up hazards. Stealth Rock and Spikes are the hazards in question, wearing down opposing teams so that powerful teammates can rip them to shreds. Taunt is compulsory to prevent opposing setup. The last slot is a choice between killing Bisharp and heavily damaging Tyranitar (Superpower), or preventing Deoxys-D and Prankster Taunt from getting in Deoxys-S's way. Mirror Coat in conjunction with a Focus Sash can also be used to deal with common Aegislash anti-leads.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EV spread is focused toward allowing Deoxys-S to lay down the most entry hazards possible, giving it impressive physical bulk that lets it tank attacks from a myriad of physical attackers and set up its hazards. Rocky Helmet is generally preferred to punish physical attackers that make contact, but a Focus Sash can also be used for it to put down Stealth Rock against Aegislash on turn one, and come back in later at some point to get up a layer of Spikes.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    You generally want to lead and start laying hazards immediately. Start with Stealth Rock, as it is the most disruptive hazard, and proceed to set up Spikes until Deoxys-S is KOed. Don't do anything besides set up hazards unless absolutely required, as you never want to risk not getting up anything, which would essentially leave you playing 5-6 against the opponent with no advantage.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Deoxys-S caters toward hyper offense teams with powerful attackers that force many switches, such as Aegislash, Talonflame, and Latios, punishing the switches necessary to handle these Pokemon and wearing them down such that they can be defeated later in the match. Without Pokemon like these, Deoxys-S is almost wasted. It is also wise to carry a spinblocker to ensure your hazards aren't just spun away. Gengar doesn't exactly match up that well against any OU spinner, but it fits better with the offensive motif of its team. Alternatively, offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus can be used, boasting some more ability to take hits and the power to sweep or at least dent opposing teams with some Nasty Plot boosted attacks. Finally, you'll want some way to counteract Defog. You can't actually block it with anything—though proper prediction and offensive pressure will help out—but you can run Bisharp, which thanks to its ability, Defiant, turns the evasion reduction from Defog into a +2 boost to its Attack, putting it in a position to sweep the opposing team.

    Dual Screens
    ########
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Light Clay
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    This set takes a different approach to supporting offensive teams: protecting setup sweepers with Reflect and Light Screen. In addition to dual screens, Taunt is mandatory to block opposing setup and slower Taunts. The last slot is basically filler. Stealth Rock is typically preferred to provide an extra level of support. Magic Coat can be run to ensure screens get up against opposing Deoxys-S and Prankster Taunt users. Knock Off is an alternative option to beat Espeon, which loves to lead against Deoxys-S and set up its own dual screens. Both of these options take a backseat because the utility in setting up screens and Stealth Rock is so valuable, and Taunt is compulsory.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs are simple, maximizing Deoxys-S's bulk and Speed. A Timid nature minimizes Foul Play and confusion damage, while Light Clay ensures that the screens last as long as possible for partners to set up and deal damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    With this set, you will generally want to just lead and set up screens. After that, Deoxys-S will have hopefully fainted, but if it hasn't, just sacrifice it on the third turn or switch out if the opponent is trying to stall out your screens. To set Stealth Rock, get up the screen that's going to cushion the foe's attack, set up Stealth Rock, and then set up the second screen. If you have to Taunt, try and do so before you set up screens so as to maximize their longevity.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Deoxys-S is meant to support hyper offense teams with setup sweepers and frail, powerful attackers. Standouts include Crawdaunt and pretty much any setup sweeper. Bisharp in particular makes for an excellent partner, as Deoxys-S lures out Tyranitar, which it can easily switch into, set up on it as it is forced out, and proceed to seriously damage the opposing team. It also has the ability Defiant, which prevents Deoxys-S's work from going to waste against Defog users (physical Thundurus is also an option to fulfill this role).

    Rain Dance
    ########
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Magic Coat / Superpower / Ice Beam
    item: Damp Rock
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold / Impish

    Moves
    ========

    Rain Dance provides support for teammates that utilize rain, including Swift Swim and Hurricane users. Stealth Rock is a compulsory hazard for offensive teams, and Deoxys-S is very good at setting it up right off the bat due to its blazing Speed. Taunt is important to prevent opposing setup. Magic Coat is usually preferred in the last spot to prevent opposing Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D from stealing away the early-game momentum. A choice of attack is also available if any particular threats are of concern. Superpower hits Tyranitar, a massive pain to rain teams, and anti-leading Bisharp, while Ice Beam covers Dragon Dance Dragonite and Ground-type threats. Psycho Boost can be used to hit Fighting-types if your team is particularly threatened by any of them. Two attacks is certainly an option, too, but Taunt will be missed against Pokemon that set up, and attacking isn't really the role of this Deoxys-S.

    Set Details
    ========

    The physically defensive EV spread allows Deoxys-S to take a hit from a variety of physical attackers and set up both Stealth Rock and a Damp Rock-boosted Rain Dance. A Focus Sash with a more conventional offensive, speedy spread can be run, but isn't recommended because of the significant drop in rain turns. Speed isn't really necessary because Deoxys-S outspeeds pretty much every relevant unboosted, and certain boosted, threats with no investment.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set should be used to lead for hyper offensive rain teams and set up both Stealth Rock and rain immediately. Taunt against anything you expect to set up that can't be dealt with by the rest of the team after Deoxys-S is KOed. Magic Coat should be used against opposing Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, and Prankster Taunt users like Thundurus. Any of the attacking options should, naturally, be used against their respective targets. There's pretty much no situation where you won't want to lead with it and get momentum right off the bat.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Deoxys-S should be used on a dedicated hyper offensive rain team. This always includes Swift Swim partners, such as Kabutops and Kingdra, and Drizzle Politoed to provide a more permanent source of rain. Hurricane users, which basically amount to Tornadus and Tornadus-T, as well as Thunder users, such as Mega Manectric, Thundurus, and Raikou, make for good rain team members as well.

    Other Options
    ########

    Deoxys-S has a ton of options at its disposal. One possible option besides those listed is a TrickScarf set, which can run defensive investment thanks to its increased Speed from the Choice Scarf, in order to get up the maximum layers of Spikes possible whilst boasting the ability to cripple foes by Tricking its Choice Scarf away. With Nasty Plot, Deoxys-S could theoretically pose a decent threat as a sweeper, but it relies on the full, mixed coverage of the listed revenge killer set to deal much damage as an offensive Pokemon, and setting it up isn't easy due to Deoxys-S's rather unimpressive—though usable—defenses. Hazard lead Deoxys-S can opt to run Skill Swap, which prevents Espeon, Xatu, and Mega Absol from bouncing back its hazards.

    The revenge killer set has a myriad of potential moves, though the ones listed in the actual set are general best and most optimal. Thunderbolt is an option to revenge kill Dragon Dance non-Mega Gyarados; however, it falters against the more common Mega variants where Superpower shines, hitting it much harder. Meteor Mash has a niche in enabling Deoxys-S to bypass Sylveon and beat Clefable one-on-one. Extreme Speed is an option to bypass opposing priority from the likes of Mega Pinsir and Dragonite, and kill them if weakened, but isn't as useful in general as any of the other attacking options.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Priority**: Priority is the best way to take out revenge killer Deoxys-S. Aegislash can KO with a Spooky Plate-boosted Shadow Sneak after Stealth Rock damage or two turns of Life Orb recoil, whilst Deoxys-S struggles to do much in return. Talonflame OHKOes Deoxys-S if it has taken one turn of Life Orb damage with a Choice Band-boosted Brave Bird. Azumarill KOes with a Waterfall followed by an Aqua Jet. Bisharp KOes it with Sucker Punch.

    **Prankster Users**: Prankster Taunt prevents non-Magic Coat Deoxys-S from getting up any hazards. The most notable users are Thundurus and Sableye. Additionally, a Prankster Thunder Wave from Thundurus cripples revenge killer Deoxys-S for good, taking away its high Speed, and makes setting up hazards more difficult.

    **Damaging Weather**: Sandstorm breaks Deoxys-S's Focus Sash. Tyranitar can hit it with Crunch, bringing it down to its sash; the sandstorm it brings finishes off Deoxys-S at the end of the turn, limiting it to setting up just Stealth Rock if it lacks Superpower. Hail has the same effect, and Mega Abomasnow has a high chance to KO with Blizzard and hail damage; running Ice Shard ensures that it will faint.

    **Magic Bounce**: Espeon, Xatu, and Mega Absol can bounce back Deoxys-S's hazards, rendering it essentially useless. Espeon also conveniently walls all of its Life Orb-boosted attacks, while Mega Absol can KO it with a Sucker Punch.

    **Hazard Removal**: Excadrill, Starmie, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Latios, and Latias can all remove Deoxys-S's hazards with either Rapid Spin or Defog. With Defog, be sure to watch out for Bisharp, a common Deoxys-S partner that can devastate your team if it comes in on a predicted Defog.

    **Bulky Steel-types**: Skarmory and Ferrothorn both handle Deoxys-S's Life Orb-boosted attacks pretty well. Skarmory flat out walls it and can use Defog or set up its own entry hazards with the free turns it gets. Physically defensive Ferrothorn can switch in to anything other than the occasional Hidden Power Fire and even take one pretty decently in a pinch, losing about half its health and eliminating Deoxys-S with Gyro Ball + Iron Barbs + Life Orb recoil. Mega Mawile pretty much walls it and threatens it hugely on the offensive side of things, pretty much able to set up in its face for free and get in a position to sweep the Deoxys-S user's team with its immense power.

    **Determining Deoxys-S's Set**: Team composition is the best way to figure out which set Deoxys-S is running. On any random team, it's probably just running the Life Orb set. However, if it's paired with dangerous setup sweepers that might benefit from screens to set up, be prepared for it to go for the screens. Or, if it's on a rain team, expect it to lead and set up Stealth Rock + Rain Dance.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2014
  2. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    IIRC Deoxys is capable of learning Nasty Plot. Is that locked to a specific nature / IV configuration too since it is an event? If not - might be worth a set or at worst OO.
  3. Alter

    Alter lab report
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    Colonel M: I own a Nasty Plot Deoxys in-game and I can confirm that it is not IV or nature locked at all.
  4. Seven Lions

    Seven Lions

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    I think Magic Coat should be slashed with Taunt on the first set instead of running both.

    I'm not sure if this is viable in the analysis or just in OO but a spread of 156 HP / 152 Atk / 200 Spe allows Deo-S to OHKO Genesect all the time while outspeeding the Scarf set.
  5. Tesung

    Tesung
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    Fire punch should definitely be the number one option in the 4th spot for the hazard lead set, koing scarf genesects is way 2 important. I don't even see the point of rock slide, and while magic coat is viable, taunt + magic coat is a little much. Also, rain dance is a good lead for rain hyper offense
  6. Jukain

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    Taunt is necessary for Deoxys-S. It means you don't have to screw around predicting hazards/opposing Taunt and just get right down to business. The point of Magic Coat is for Prankster Thundurus-I with Taunt or Thunder Wave, and Prankster Klefki.
    Rock Slide is for Talonflame, a big priority pain in your ass. Superpower hits Tyranitar and Mega Lucario, both of which threaten you pretty greatly as well. If anything I may slash in HP Fire, but I'll leave that up to QC discretion.

    I am planning to add a two attacks (offensive) hazard setter, and *possibly* a Nasty Plot set, depending on how my testing goes. Just a BTW.
  7. Seven Lions

    Seven Lions

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    Thing is, against other Deoxys leads that have Magic Coat, you lose out on getting out hazards at least early-game which puts you at a disadvantage.

    Second of all, the thing with your other coverage options opposed to Fire Punch is that for one, Talonflame does not lead often. Second of all, even with Max Attack investment, Superpower doesn't OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar 100% of the time and against Chople Berry, you're screwed as you've managed to put up no hazards. Mega Lucario is suppose to come out mid to lategame and sweep, not leading off.
    Magcargo, Jukain, Soulgazer and 6 others like this.
  8. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I can definitely agree with you on this post. I didn't consider the match-up vs. other Deoxys-S, which is quite significant. Thanks for your input, I will slash Magic Coat first, and I've decided from my testing to replace Rock Slide with Fire Punch.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  9. Jukain

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    okay, so I now have everything done except checks and counters; i'm gonna spend a little more time on that. significant changes: i removed rock slide because psycho boost ohkoes talonflame, and changed the evs on the rk'er set such that it now ohkoes hasty genesect (that'd be the scarf, sash, shift gear, and cb variants), rk'er is now the first set, dual screens is dropped to oo because its outclassed so badly by deoxys-d in like 99% of scenarios.

    i may slash fire punch before superpower, as having coverage on genesect is so much more useful than coverage on tyranitar from what i've played. plus you're bound to not get much (i.e. more than stealth rock) in the way of hazards. thoughts?
  10. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    Just posting to say that Revenge Killer doesn't need that much Atk to OHKO Gene since you're holding LO. In fact even 0 EVs Timid OHKOes:

    0- Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Genesect: 286-338 (101 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So you're probably best off with the ones in Set Details to OHKO (M)Tar.
  11. Jukain

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    mmm I calc'd that one without LO, woops. ok, decreased attack evs to the point where you ohko 4/0 mega tyranitar with superpower.
  12. MQJinx

    MQJinx

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    I believe Skill Swap deserves a mention on the hazard lead set. Being able to mess up Espeon and Xatu is a plus for any hazard lead.
  13. Jukain

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    Espeon and Xatu aren't nearly common enough to warrant an AC mention, imo (don't forget Mega Absol on that list, though it's rare too). OO for Skill Swap, thanks for bringing it up.
  14. Jukain

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    checks and counters are done, qc. i'm not 100% on what i have, so suggestions are welcome. it's kinda hard to do its checks/counters, because the hazard lead always gets sr and the way the attacker set is played counters don't *matter* that much. i mentioned things that could limit its hazards and handle the revenge killer set pretty well, mostly priorities, as well as strategies.
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    The hazard set should be #1, no question about it.

    Don't get me wrong, the LO offensive set is really good. But Deoxys-S's primary niche will always be as a super fast entry hazards user with Taunt.
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  16. Jukain

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    okay I mulled over what pk said and moved the hazard lead set up to the top. also I updated c&c a tad.

    qc away.
  17. ginganinja

    ginganinja Call me and I'll come
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    why does Dual Screen not have a set?
  18. Sturdynips

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    I think Magic Bounce users could get a larger mention in C&C. I've been using the hazard lead set with SR/Spikes/Taunt/Magic Coat, and on the couple of occasions that the opponent has had Espeon or Xatu, i've been hard pressed to gain any kind of momentum. Deo-S is 100% useless in these kind of match ups and although they're pretty uncommon, I think their ability to completely cockblock the hazard lead and effectively make it a 6-5 match should be noted. I guess adding Pursuit users to team options is an option too, but maybe a bit too specific for a fairly rare threat.
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  19. Jukain

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    dual screens is in the analysis

    qc time~
  20. Swamp Link

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    Mega Absol is the best counter to Deoxys-S regardless of the set. If it's the revenge killer, it will die to sucker punch, and if it's the hazard lead, it will reflect back any hazards, can sucker punch the possible superpower, and can either pursuit trap it and knock it down to its sash, making it near-useless, or set up a Swords Dance on it. Basically, while it needs to predict around superpower a bit, Absol can easily check for this with sucker punch as Deoxys has no business staying in on it otherwise, and if it doesn't carry it, Absol walks all over it, even more so than Espeon and Xatu because it can boost or kill it much more effectively. And if they lead with Deoxys and you lead with Absol, and you sucker punch while they switch out because they don't have superpower, you know that you can switch into it at any time, so it doesn't matter that it got out alive. So Mega Absol should be the first counter mentioned, I think.
  21. CyclicCompound

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    You mention that Ice Beam on the Revenge Killer set provides revenge killing utility towards Dragonite. I'm not sure if this needs to be addressed or if it can be assumed that the reader knows, but this requires that several important factors be in play. With Multiscale intact, it's impossible to revenge kill Dragonite with Ice Beam, whereas Dragon Claw is a guaranteed OHKO after Life Orb recoil. Furthermore, if Deoxys-S has taken any prior damage—highly plausible due to Life Orb and Stealth Rock—it's very easy for +1 to Extremespeed to KO. Specifically, it only takes two Stealth Rock switch-ins and a single round of Life Orb recoil for Deoxys-S to be in guaranteed KO range of Extremespeed. Basically, if Stealth Rock is on your side and you've already revenge killed one thing, you're no longer able to revenge kill Dragonite.
  22. Hibiki

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    If countering the hazards set, Mega Absol has to mega evolve first, so switching in doesn't prevent hazards. If it's already in, Sucker Punch will only bring Deoxys down to its sash before dying to superpower.
  23. Swamp Link

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    Well, if you saw Deoxys on your opponent's team, and you thought it was the hazard lead (because it seemed like a HO team or it had Bisharp or for whatever reason) wouldn't you lead with your Magic Bounce pokemon? You wouldn't need to switch in in that case because you would just lead with Absol at the same time as them. If it's the hazard lead and it's carrying superpower, then it's true that Absol's sucker punch will only knock Deoxys down to its sash while you die to superpower. However, hopefully you have some of that omnipresent priority in the metagame aside from that, or a scarfer fast enough to outspeed Deoxys to stop it from getting up hazards altogether. Either way, Superpower is not the most common move on Sash Deoxys-S.
  24. Jukain

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    Superpower is on 33.532% percent of Deoxys-S, only after SR, Psycho Boost, Spikes, Taunt, and Ice Beam, which are overlap from the RK'er and the hazard setter. Superpower is insanely common on Deoxys-S.

    CyclicCompound that's something I was already planning to detail in the write-up.

    I will mention Mega Absol. Superpower OHKOes a good percentage of the time even without lots of Attack, though, so it doesn't really beat the hazard lead set with Superpower, as Shoujo Man correctly stated.

    Anyways QC approvals?
  25. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Actually don't approve yet: I want opinions on a weather setter lead. Simple. It sets up SR, weather, and dies, making it a perfect Swift Swimmer/sun (Fire/Chlorophyll Pokemon) mon partner. I am inclined to include it.

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